Russia Invades Ukraine

 

In a speech Wednesday night, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a “special military operation,” followed immediately by troops entering Ukraine and large explosions throughout the country.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed the attack and declared martial law. Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba called it a “full-scale invasion,” adding, “Peaceful Ukrainian cities are under strikes. This is a war of aggression. Ukraine will defend itself and will win. The world can and must stop Putin. The time to act is now.”

Putin strenuously warned against international meddling. “To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside: if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history,” he said. “All relevant decisions have been taken.”

President Biden issued a statement: “The prayers of the entire world are with the people of Ukraine tonight as they suffer an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces.” He added that he will consult with the leaders of the G7 on Thursday and promised “severe sanctions.”

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  1. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Perhaps. But according to John Bolton’s memoir of his time as Trump’s National Security Advisor, Donald Trump was not a consistent supporter of Ukrainian sovereignty.

    Ukraine isn’t even a consistent supporter of their sovereignty. Who are they? Heritage Russians or the US’s puppets? Seems to be they can’t figure it out amongst themselves.

    They are a nation of 40 million people who have been able to keep their national identity despite 400 years of Tsarist oppression, followed by 75 years of Soviet oppression including a famine that caused millions of deaths. They have their own identity, language, culture, and just want to be left in peace.

    Kozak,

    What should we do? Cut Russia off from the banking system? Ramp up our own oil and gas for the world market? Supply non-lethal supplies like food and medicine to Ukraine? Supply lethal arms to Ukraine? I am asking, not advocating, as you are much closer to being an authority than me.

    Gary

    Hmm.

    These are all very Trumpian things to suggest, Gary.

    The election is over. The question is what to do now?

    You voted for the opposite of this foreign policy, Gary. This was what we were doing. You voted against it.

    Bryan, you remind me of the person who is grievously injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital, wants to argue that the accident was someone else’s fault.

    I repeat, what should we do now?

    Work as hard as you can for Trump’s next term to get us out of this domestic mess. It’s the least you could do, as penance.

    The next Presidential election will not occur until 2024.  What should we do right now?

    • #151
  2. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    BDB (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Although it does raise the next question of what the alternative in the “if then else” construct above should be.

    I agree. Questions work well when turned into binaries. Such as intervene vs not-intervene. I read “call the cops” as consistent with not-intervene.

    “Walk on by and do nothing” is non-intervening. “Call the cops” is intervening.

    Alright, word games? I’m done. Thanks anyway.

    It’s not word games.  Three alternatives as you walk by the woman getting raped:  Intervene personally, call the cops, or pull up your collar and put your hands in your pocket as you whistle your way past on your way to wherever you were going.

    The first two are an intervention, ineffectual or otherwise.  The third is not.

    • #152
  3. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    I mean if you listened to/read about Putin’s last couple of speeches he seemed a little frighteningly unhinged. Whether that is by design or he really thinks paranoid nonsense we may never know.

    So what should the US do? How do we and “the West” intervene in a way that actually achieves whatever the objective is?

    I’m not an expert on this as I assume some are. Some options could be:

    1. The West Immediately imposes every economic sanction imaginable.

    2. Supply Ukranian forces with as much material assistance as possible for as long as possible. Don’t send MREs instead of ammo like Obama did.

    3. Don’t fall foe Putin’s “denazification” bs. He has invaded a sovereign nation.

    4. Deploy troops and armor in the event things spill out of Ukraine, both American and European forces.

    All of those appear to be good to me.

     

    • #153
  4. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    You voted for Biden, right?

    You remind me of someone who has been injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital wants to argue who’s at fault.

    What should we do now?

    Especially since many of the options that had existed – such as those relying on US energy independence – no longer exist because of votes like yours, assigning blame does have some value. As well as pointing out that, based on your record, maybe you shouldn’t vote in the future. You just make things worse. Leave it to those who know better. You vote for people who make things worse, and then ask “what do we do now?” To borrow from the old Lone Ranger joke, “what do you mean ‘we,’ white-man?”

    The election is over.  The next Presidential election is in 2024.  What should we do now?

    • #154
  5. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    It is infuriating that the obvious lesson of striving for energy independence, both for us and Europe will be no doubt willfully ignored because all must bow to environmentalist dogma.  

    • #155
  6. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    You voted for Biden, right?

    You remind me of someone who has been injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital wants to argue who’s at fault.

    What should we do now?

    See you at the polls, friend.

    • #156
  7. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    It is infuriating that the obvious lesson of striving for energy independence, both for us and Europe will be no doubt willfully ignored because all must bow to environmentalist dogma.

    Agreed.  I like the McCain/Palin formulation of “all of the above” for energy generation.

    • #157
  8. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    I mean if you listened to/read about Putin’s last couple of speeches he seemed a little frighteningly unhinged. Whether that is by design or he really thinks paranoid nonsense we may never know.

    So what should the US do? How do we and “the West” intervene in a way that actually achieves whatever the objective is?

    I’m not an expert on this as I assume some are. Some options could be:

    1. The West Immediately imposes every economic sanction imaginable.

    2. Supply Ukranian forces with as much material assistance as possible for as long as possible. Don’t send MREs instead of ammo like Obama did.

    3. Don’t fall foe Putin’s “denazification” bs. He has invaded a sovereign nation.

    4. Deploy troops and armor in the event things spill out of Ukraine, both American and European forces.

     

    I’m sure these aren’t the most original ideas as I am a contractor not a foreign policy expert. Still, it seems obvious there are options other than ground forces fighting Russia in Ukraine.

    Sir, I agree with everything you said here.  Taking this rare opportunity to say that.

    • #158
  9. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    You voted for Biden, right?

    You remind me of someone who has been injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital wants to argue who’s at fault.

    What should we do now?

    See you at the polls, friend.

    I will be working at the polls, which is what any Republican who can should do.

    • #159
  10. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    BDB (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    I mean if you listened to/read about Putin’s last couple of speeches he seemed a little frighteningly unhinged. Whether that is by design or he really thinks paranoid nonsense we may never know.

    So what should the US do? How do we and “the West” intervene in a way that actually achieves whatever the objective is?

    I’m not an expert on this as I assume some are. Some options could be:

    1. The West Immediately imposes every economic sanction imaginable.

    2. Supply Ukranian forces with as much material assistance as possible for as long as possible. Don’t send MREs instead of ammo like Obama did.

    3. Don’t fall foe Putin’s “denazification” bs. He has invaded a sovereign nation.

    4. Deploy troops and armor in the event things spill out of Ukraine, both American and European forces.

     

    I’m sure these aren’t the most original ideas as I am a contractor not a foreign policy expert. Still, it seems obvious there are options other than ground forces fighting Russia in Ukraine.

    Sir, I agree with everything you said here. Taking this rare opportunity to say that.

    Happy for the agreement!  

    • #160
  11. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Moderator Note:

    The purpose of the redacted part of your comment was to personally attack another commenter. It didn’t contribute to the conversation about Russia’s invasion.

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The election is over.  The next Presidential election is in 2024.  What should we do now?

    We aren’t in a position to do anything that won’t durn into a giant clusterfark [redacted].

    • #161
  12. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    Stina (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The election is over. The next Presidential election is in 2024. What should we do now?

    We aren’t in a position to do anything that won’t durn into a giant clusterfark because of the incompetent, senile, nursing home patient YOU voted for.

    Hey do you have a point to add to the discussion or are you just here to make personal attacks?  (Asking for a friend)

    • #162
  13. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    The U.S. has been considered the defacto “Policeman of the World” for about 70 years now.

    Self-styled. And has no legitimate authority.

    That’s not really self-styled. The rest of the world thinks we are “the cops.” And of course there is no legitimate authority for it, but there is no legitimate authority for Russia to invade Ukraine, either. There are no really enforceable rules or authorities on the World stage (not even the U.N.). There are only agreements and consensual behaviors between countries.

    And any respect we’ve earned. 

    • #163
  14. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Moderator Note:

    Name calling

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The election is over. The next Presidential election is in 2024. What should we do now?

    We aren’t in a position to do anything that won’t durn into a giant clusterfark because of the incompetent, senile, nursing home patient YOU voted for.

    Hey do you have a point to add to the discussion or are you just here to make personal attacks? (Asking for a friend)

    [redacted]

    • #164
  15. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    Stina (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The election is over. The next Presidential election is in 2024. What should we do now?

    We aren’t in a position to do anything that won’t durn into a giant clusterfark because of the incompetent, senile, nursing home patient YOU voted for.

    Hey do you have a point to add to the discussion or are you just here to make personal attacks? (Asking for a friend)

    Oh aren’t you precious.

    Yeah that’s how I am usually described, and you are super brave as an anonymous commenter.   However, there are rules here about ad hominem atracks you should perhaps familiarize yourself with.  Then again, I’m not a moderator so suit youtself.

    • #165
  16. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    Really? It’s Biden’s fault. I’m a traitor now! Come collect me.

    Is this Nato’s fault?

    NATO attempting to break an agreement, whether the agreement was rightly or wrongly decided, is going to cause international problems.

    That is what they did, right?

    If they wanted to break the agreement, maybe they should have done so while Russia was competing with the US for oil exports and forced the US into an agreement not to scale back on oil production.

    You never heard of the Budapest accords I guess…

     

    I was 11, so you would guess right.

    Maybe you should learn a bit about existing international agreements BEFORE making claims about who is breaking them- b/c it is Russia that has violated the agreement. FYI- About the only treaty Russia has not broken was the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement- you know the one that started WW2 with Russia as partner in aggression with Nazi Germany- when Russia seized eastern Poland & the Baltic States-where Russia sent Germany many products it needed to attack France.

    • #166
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The election is over. The next Presidential election is in 2024. What should we do now?

    We aren’t in a position to do anything that won’t durn into a giant clusterfark because of the incompetent, senile, nursing home patient YOU voted for.

    Hey do you have a point to add to the discussion or are you just here to make personal attacks? (Asking for a friend)

    Oh aren’t you precious.

    Yeah that’s how I am usually described, and you are super brave as an anonymous commenter. However, there are rules here about ad hominem atracks you should perhaps familiarize yourself with. Then again, I’m not a moderator so suit youtself.

    Stina pointed out what just about everyone already knows, that Gary voted for an incompetent, senile, nursing home patient.  Stina did NOT say that GARY is an incompetent, senile, nursing home patient.  Hence, not a personal attack on Gary.

    • #167
  18. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The election is over. The next Presidential election is in 2024. What should we do now?

    We aren’t in a position to do anything that won’t durn into a giant clusterfark because of the incompetent, senile, nursing home patient YOU voted for.

    Hey do you have a point to add to the discussion or are you just here to make personal attacks? (Asking for a friend)

    Oh aren’t you precious.

    Yeah that’s how I am usually described, and you are super brave as an anonymous commenter. However, there are rules here about ad hominem atracks you should perhaps familiarize yourself with. Then again, I’m not a moderator so suit youtself.

    Stina pointed out what just about everyone already knows, that Gary voted for an incompetent, senile, nursing home patient. Stina did NOT say that GARY is an incompetent, senile, nursing home patient. Hence, not a personal attack on Gary.

    The entire purpose of the comment was to rip on Gary about who he voted for.  There wasn’t anything there contributing to the conversation about Russia’s invasion.  You know that’s the case no matter if you agree with it or not.  

    • #168
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The election is over. The next Presidential election is in 2024. What should we do now?

    We aren’t in a position to do anything that won’t durn into a giant clusterfark because of the incompetent, senile, nursing home patient YOU voted for.

    Hey do you have a point to add to the discussion or are you just here to make personal attacks? (Asking for a friend)

    Oh aren’t you precious.

    Yeah that’s how I am usually described, and you are super brave as an anonymous commenter. However, there are rules here about ad hominem atracks you should perhaps familiarize yourself with. Then again, I’m not a moderator so suit youtself.

    Stina pointed out what just about everyone already knows, that Gary voted for an incompetent, senile, nursing home patient. Stina did NOT say that GARY is an incompetent, senile, nursing home patient. Hence, not a personal attack on Gary.

    The entire purpose of the comment was to rip on Gary about who he voted for. There wasn’t anything there contributing to the conversation about Russia’s invasion. You know that’s the case no matter if you agree with it or not.

    Criticizing Gary for voting for one or more fools who have gotten the world into this mess, is not a personal attack.

    • #169
  20. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    BDB (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    I mean if you listened to/read about Putin’s last couple of speeches he seemed a little frighteningly unhinged. Whether that is by design or he really thinks paranoid nonsense we may never know.

    So what should the US do? How do we and “the West” intervene in a way that actually achieves whatever the objective is?

    I’m not an expert on this as I assume some are. Some options could be:

    1. The West Immediately imposes every economic sanction imaginable.

    2. Supply Ukranian forces with as much material assistance as possible for as long as possible. Don’t send MREs instead of ammo like Obama did.

    3. Don’t fall foe Putin’s “denazification” bs. He has invaded a sovereign nation.

    4. Deploy troops and armor in the event things spill out of Ukraine, both American and European forces.

     

    I’m sure these aren’t the most original ideas as I am a contractor not a foreign policy expert. Still, it seems obvious there are options other than ground forces fighting Russia in Ukraine.

    Sir, I agree with everything you said here. Taking this rare opportunity to say that.

    I also agree.

    • #170
  21. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Perhaps. But according to John Bolton’s memoir of his time as Trump’s National Security Advisor, Donald Trump was not a consistent supporter of Ukrainian sovereignty.

    Ukraine isn’t even a consistent supporter of their sovereignty. Who are they? Heritage Russians or the US’s puppets? Seems to be they can’t figure it out amongst themselves.

    They are a nation of 40 million people who have been able to keep their national identity despite 400 years of Tsarist oppression, followed by 75 years of Soviet oppression including a famine that caused millions of deaths. They have their own identity, language, culture, and just want to be left in peace.

    Kozak,

    What should we do? Cut Russia off from the banking system? Ramp up our own oil and gas for the world market? Supply non-lethal supplies like food and medicine to Ukraine? Supply lethal arms to Ukraine? I am asking, not advocating, as you are much closer to being an authority than me.

    Gary

    Hmm.

    These are all very Trumpian things to suggest, Gary.

    The election is over. The question is what to do now?

    You voted for the opposite of this foreign policy, Gary. This was what we were doing. You voted against it.

    Bryan, you remind me of the person who is grievously injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital, wants to argue that the accident was someone else’s fault.

    I repeat, what should we do now?

    With you, not let you forget you voted for Biden until you admit, without reservation or demand, that you were wrong to do so. Do that, and I’ll forgive you, but until then, I will hang everything Biden does around your unrepentant neck. 

    What is funny here, Gary, is basically, you are making the same argument Clinton did “At this point, what does it matter?”

    It matters Gary. It matters.

    • #171
  22. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    Yeah I think if someone witnesses violence on the street and videos it instead of helping they are a bad person. Granted different people have different abilities to help but we all know what type of examples he means.

    Got it! 

    I choose not to needlessly get myself killed jumping in, I am a “bad person”. Thank you for your moral arbitration in these matters. 

    It is so funny, we call those people who take risks ‘Heroes’ so to you, the world is either Heroes or bad people. 

    • #172
  23. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    I am not sure what will work or won’t work.

    I am not sure what we should do now. What we should have done we did not do.

    People who were strongly Anti Trump have little moral standing to demand anything from the rest of us on “What should we do now”.  Frankly, you have no right to an answer.

     

     

    • #173
  24. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I am not sure what will work or won’t work.

    I am not sure what we should do now. What we should have done we did not do.

    People who were strongly Anti Trump have little moral standing to demand anything from the rest of us on “What should we do now”. Frankly, you have no right to an answer.

     

     

    All due respect Brian this has very little to do with being anti-trump.  Just because you have a hammer doesn’t make everything a nail.

    • #174
  25. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I am not sure what will work or won’t work.

    I am not sure what we should do now. What we should have done we did not do.

    People who were strongly Anti Trump have little moral standing to demand anything from the rest of us on “What should we do now”. Frankly, you have no right to an answer.

     

     

    All due respect Brian this has very little to do with being anti-trump. Just because you have a hammer doesn’t make everything a nail.

    I pointed out to Gary that the things he supported where exactly Trump’s policy. It is perfectly reasonable to point that out and to point out that Gary voted, proudly, against the very policies he says he likes. That is relevant. Who says something is always relevant. And, it was my conversation with Gary, not with you. 

    At least Gary always spells my name correctly. 

     

    • #175
  26. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    self redacted because of better angels.

    • #176
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stina (View Comment):

    self redacted because of better angels.

    Well there goes MY fun for the day!

    • #177
  28. Viruscop Inactive
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

     

    The truth is never what the Russian government claims it to be. I remember reading, in this book, that during the Second Chechen War Russia claimed that the Chechen leaders were radical Islamists in league with Al-Qaeda. That was a lie, but the Bush administration was very stupid and believed anything that anyone said anywhere if it made Islam seem scarier.

     

    Yeah, those Boston marathon bombers were great non-radical Islamists.

    They were no more representative of the Chechens than Jordan Peterson is representative of Canadians.

    • #178
  29. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    No more countries admitted to NATO. Wasn’t that a really old agreement with Russia?

    After further research, I see that’s a highly contested statement by both sides as to whether an agreement existed.

    There was very definitely an agreement by “the west” to guarantee Ukraine’s borders in exchange for them giving up their soviet-era nukes.

    How’s that working out for them?

     

     

    Taiwan and South Korea should be working on their own nukes now.

    • #179
  30. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    No more countries admitted to NATO. Wasn’t that a really old agreement with Russia?

    After further research, I see that’s a highly contested statement by both sides as to whether an agreement existed.

    There was very definitely an agreement by “the west” to guarantee Ukraine’s borders in exchange for them giving up their soviet-era nukes.

    How’s that working out for them?

     

     

    Taiwan and South Korea should be working on their own nukes now.

    The obvious conclusion to our not seriously punishing Putin’s aggression is get a nuclear weapon- the genie is about to get way out of the bottle.

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