Russia Invades Ukraine

 

In a speech Wednesday night, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a “special military operation,” followed immediately by troops entering Ukraine and large explosions throughout the country.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed the attack and declared martial law. Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba called it a “full-scale invasion,” adding, “Peaceful Ukrainian cities are under strikes. This is a war of aggression. Ukraine will defend itself and will win. The world can and must stop Putin. The time to act is now.”

Putin strenuously warned against international meddling. “To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside: if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history,” he said. “All relevant decisions have been taken.”

President Biden issued a statement: “The prayers of the entire world are with the people of Ukraine tonight as they suffer an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces.” He added that he will consult with the leaders of the G7 on Thursday and promised “severe sanctions.”

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  1. Michael Henry Member
    Michael Henry
    @MichaelHenry

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Well yes.

    Mr Biden has been bought and sold by both sides in this conflict (and also by the Chinese), mostly through his whore-impregnating, coke-snorting son. But the succession of actions he took as POTUS clearly show a Russian bias. Cancelling the US-Canadian pipeline, stopping drilling and fracking on federal land made the US energy dependent again and thus unable to bail out Europe. Promoting Nordstream 2, failing to arm Ukraine, making that idiotic comment about “a minor incursion”, it keeps going on and on… all of these played into Vladimir’s hand, just as Mr Obama did with his treasonous remarks in Vienna.

    Mr Biden’s clear lack of competence in leaving Kabul, in running our Mexican border and in running day to day affairs shows that this is the time for despots to act.

    Even if we don’t enter the fray, and I pray we won’t, this invasion is Mr Biden’s war. We have legitimate interests in Ukrainian sovereignty and freedom, but it is obvious that our POTUS and the cabal that direct him are incapable of rationally defending those interests. So if we send troops over, I’ll be in the demonstrations chanting “hey hey, ho ho, Hunter’s father has to go” or whatever.

    Always remember, this didn’t happen while DJT was POTUS. My goodness, how I miss that man.

    Very well said, Dr. Robert.

    • #31
  2. Keith Lowery Coolidge
    Keith Lowery
    @keithlowery

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Keith Lowery (View Comment):
    our obligation to intervene

    This is not about obligation.

    It’s more about preventing World War III. Which is going to be a lot worse in terms of human suffering than World War II was.

    For sure – which is a legitimate concern. I was responding to someone who framed it as a question of moral obligation.

    Having said that, I don’t personally have a way to calibrate the risk of escalation. One thing we get zero information about in the press is any sort of strategic analysis.  So, for example, one person I trust suggests that the Russian army lacks the size, and Putin lacks the money (although with oil at $100 per barrel he has more money) to have a very expansive ambition.  Now maybe China will move against Taiwan while everyone’s eyes are on Ukraine, but China is said to lack the amphibious capacity sufficient to invade the island. And I’m told that Taiwan has the capability to make it very uncomfortable for China should they attack.  I have first-hand information on none of this, but the lack of any real strategic analysis in the media leaves me without a solid point of reference for calibrating the risk of a global conflagration.

    It’s a legitimate concern, to be sure. I just have no actual data on which to feel urgent in any particular direction.

    • #32
  3. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Here is what the US could do right now:

    1: Ban all funds transfers to and from Russia, Russian banks, and Russian nationals. Close off SWIFT and Wires.

    2: Impose full Iranian/North Korean-style sanctions: bar all US companies and persons from doing any business with any Russian entities.  Ban all flights. Ban all Russian nationals from the US, and push to have them banned with every friendly country. 

    3: Announce opening all government land to drilling/fracking. Guarantee fast-track approvals (if we do not reject by Date X (like 60-90 days), then it is approved) for all mineral exploration and development in the US.  Provide a window where the EPA has no authority, leaving only tort law to protect against damage done. Approve all pipelines on the same basis.

     

    But if we REALLY want to prevent war from spreading, we may need to be willing to escalate, and hit Russia where it hurts: their own pipelines for generating cash. Take out Gazprom’s pipelines, and Russia goes broke, fast. Europe will freeze, but Europe has been going down this path all with its own Earth-worshipping cognizance.

    • #33
  4. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Above all, work to FLANK Putin. Do not engage in Ukraine or with the war effort there. Instead, cut Russia off at the knees. Block/destroy all internet lines.  Block all ports and pipelines for goods transfer. Block all financial transactions. Block all the people flow. 

    This can be done without a single boot on the ground. And it would HURT Russia enough to make them withdraw.

    • #34
  5. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    I always wondered what it was like being alive in the late 1930s.

     

    • #35
  6. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself.    I really am asking a question.   How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline.    How do we go from there to not-my-problem?    

    • #36
  7. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

    Is it your intention then, to intervene in every instance of street violence that occurs on the planet? Regardless of your proven track record of making each situation worse?

    I don’t know and I’m trying to figure that out.   You seem to confidently assert a solution   I’m asking how you reconcile the two responses.

    And you avoided answering.

    • #37
  8. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    • #38
  9. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Derek Tyburczyk (View Comment):

    Does “getting involved”, only include military intervention? Or could it possibly mean something less “involved”? Perhaps capitulating but tiny bit, and addressing some of the concerns that Putin has? Does a allaying some of the Russian leader’s fear, and possibly de-escalating the tensions, seem a bridge too far?

    Why does it seem that every time there is an escalation of tensions, between Russia, and the world community, the only resolution, is threats of War, or restrictive sanctions which only seemed to exacerbate the situation. It seems as though no one ever learns, and because there is no clear-cut good guy, bad guy, we see the same events repeated constantly.

    Is Putin, a bad actor, absolutely. Does the world community share some of the responsibility in this crisis, absolutely. Binary reasoning, leads to misunderstanding, and chaos.

    Putin doesn’t want his concerns addressed.   He wants Ukraine.   Period    Full stop.    Everything else is misdirection.    What does he want next?    Read Alexandr Dugin.   

    • #39
  10. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Perhaps. But according to John Bolton’s memoir of his time as Trump’s National Security Advisor, Donald Trump was not a consistent supporter of Ukrainian sovereignty.

    Ukraine isn’t even a consistent supporter of their sovereignty. Who are they? Heritage Russians or the US’s puppets? Seems to be they can’t figure it out amongst themselves.

    • #40
  11. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    As a FYI …

    I would HIGHLY recommend setting aside some actual cash … greenback dollars.    I can’t imagine that Putin will acquiesce to financial and economic sanctions without a response of some kind.    It wouldn’t surprise me if banks, ATMs, e-payment processing systems suffered some “difficulties” or “outages” making your cards useless for some period of time.

     

    • #41
  12. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    So who exactly are “the cops” in this Russia/Ukraine situation?

    • #42
  13. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Derek Tyburczyk (View Comment):

    Does “getting involved”, only include military intervention? Or could it possibly mean something less “involved”? Perhaps capitulating but tiny bit, and addressing some of the concerns that Putin has? Does a allaying some of the Russian leader’s fear, and possibly de-escalating the tensions, seem a bridge too far?

    Why does it seem that every time there is an escalation of tensions, between Russia, and the world community, the only resolution, is threats of War, or restrictive sanctions which only seemed to exacerbate the situation. It seems as though no one ever learns, and because there is no clear-cut good guy, bad guy, we see the same events repeated constantly.

    Is Putin, a bad actor, absolutely. Does the world community share some of the responsibility in this crisis, absolutely. Binary reasoning, leads to misunderstanding, and chaos.

    Ha ha ha! The entire US position on Russia is “blow the to kingdom come!” Diplomatic de-escalation is tantamount to treason and being Russia’s puppet.

    Are you a traitor?

    • #43
  14. genferei Member
    genferei
    @genferei

    Genuine question: what is the mechanism by which sanctions on Russia generally will cause Putin to change his mind (or have his mind changed)? Are we expecting a revolt of the army? Uprisings in the street? It’s not like the senior Kremlin figures haven’t been comprehensively sanctioned already: how can their day-to-day lives be significantly degraded?

    Same question for Iraq and China…

    • #44
  15. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    First, the social obligations of the individual are vastly different than the collective’s (which a country is a collective).

    While we think an individual should intervene if witnessing injustice, in whatever capacity they can, it is still the individual’s choice on how much risk is assumed on himself.

    The collective isn’t assuming risk on one individual. They are assuming risk on the entire collective. And the head of the collective makes the decision and the rest are more or less forced to go along.

    The presence of choice removed from the individual while risk is still assumed by the individual is what sets the collective intervention apart from the individual intervention.

    • #45
  16. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    So who exactly are “the cops” in this Russia/Ukraine situation?

    You’ll have to ask Ekosj that. It’s his analogy; I’m just filling out the thought process I’d use if I came upon violence in the street, which was his question.

    • #46
  17. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Stina (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Perhaps. But according to John Bolton’s memoir of his time as Trump’s National Security Advisor, Donald Trump was not a consistent supporter of Ukrainian sovereignty.

    Ukraine isn’t even a consistent supporter of their sovereignty. Who are they? Heritage Russians or the US’s puppets? Seems to be they can’t figure it out amongst themselves.

    Nonsense- they have upheld their sovereignty thru 8 years of proxy wars with the Russians so far and they are fighting  right now.

    • #47
  18. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    MiMac (View Comment):
    8 years of proxy wars with the Russians so far not would they  be fighting  right now. 

    Proxy wars? And who fought those for them?

    And how involved is the US in those proxies and their “sovereign” decisions?

    • #48
  19. Viruscop Member
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    • #49
  20. Viruscop Member
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    Don’t be like Sohrab Ahmari.

    • #50
  21. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    So who exactly are “the cops” in this Russia/Ukraine situation?

    You’ll have to ask Ekosj that. It’s his analogy; I’m just filling out the thought process I’d use if I came upon violence in the street, which was his question.

    No, you’re the one saying not to intervene in favor of calling someone else [the cops] to handle it.  So who are you calling?

     

    • #51
  22. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    Really? It’s Biden’s fault. I’m a traitor now! Come collect me.

    • #52
  23. Viruscop Member
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    Stina (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    Really? It’s Biden’s fault. I’m a traitor now! Come collect me.

    Is this Nato’s fault?

    • #53
  24. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    Really? It’s Biden’s fault. I’m a traitor now! Come collect me.

    Is this Nato’s fault?

    NATO attempting to break an agreement, whether the agreement was rightly or wrongly decided, is going to cause international problems. 

    That is what they did, right?

    If they wanted to break the agreement, maybe they should have done so while Russia was competing with the US for oil exports and forced the US into an agreement not to scale back on oil production.

    • #54
  25. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    So who exactly are “the cops” in this Russia/Ukraine situation?

    You’ll have to ask Ekosj that. It’s his analogy; I’m just filling out the thought process I’d use if I came upon violence in the street, which was his question.

    No, you’re the one saying not to intervene in favor of calling someone else [the cops] to handle it. So who are you calling?

     

    Sigh. I’m answering Eskoj’s query. I’ll even quote it for you:

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    If one can’t identify who “the cops” when applying this analogy to an international conflict, perhaps it’s because the analogy isn’t a very good one. It’s also not my analogy. 

    I’m not engaging further on this point.

    • #55
  26. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    So who exactly are “the cops” in this Russia/Ukraine situation?

    You’ll have to ask Ekosj that. It’s his analogy; I’m just filling out the thought process I’d use if I came upon violence in the street, which was his question.

    No, you’re the one saying not to intervene in favor of calling someone else [the cops] to handle it. So who are you calling?

     

    Sigh. I’m answering Eskoj’s query. I’ll even quote it for you:

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    If one can’t identify who “the cops” when applying this analogy to an international conflict, perhaps it’s because the analogy isn’t a very good one. It’s also not my analogy.

    I’m not engaging further on this point.

    Can’t come up with a  good answer, huh?

     

    • #56
  27. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    iWe (View Comment):

    Above all, work to FLANK Putin. Do not engage in Ukraine or with the war effort there. Instead, cut Russia off at the knees. Block/destroy all internet lines. Block all ports and pipelines for goods transfer. Block all financial transactions. Block all the people flow.

    This can be done without a single boot on the ground. And it would HURT Russia enough to make them withdraw.

    NATO had better very quickly start thinking about Poland and Lithuania.   The Russian oblast of Kaliningrad sits on the coast and is surrounded on its land-side by Poland and Lithuania.    Putin’s historical manifesto in July about Ukraine points to The historic enmity between Russia and the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth.    Putin also blames Poland for starting WW2.  So I’d expect to start hearing Putin bemoaning the fate of the cutoff Russians of Kaliningrad and the need to unite them with their brethren.

    • #57
  28. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    So who exactly are “the cops” in this Russia/Ukraine situation?

    You’ll have to ask Ekosj that. It’s his analogy; I’m just filling out the thought process I’d use if I came upon violence in the street, which was his question.

    No, you’re the one saying not to intervene in favor of calling someone else [the cops] to handle it. So who are you calling?

     

    Sigh. I’m answering Eskoj’s query. I’ll even quote it for you:

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    If one can’t identify who “the cops” when applying this analogy to an international conflict, perhaps it’s because the analogy isn’t a very good one. It’s also not my analogy.

    I’m not engaging further on this point.

    Can’t come up with a good answer, huh?

     

    You are attacking the wrong person.

    • #58
  29. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    • #59
  30. Quietpi Member
    Quietpi
    @Quietpi

    One look at a map of eastern Europe will answer the question.  Even a moderate knowledge of WW I & WW II, and the Soviet Union will answer the question. You may be right – maybe it isn’t “our problem.”  It’s the entire free world’s problem, and it’s a doozy.  I’m sure that our president will propose a conference in historic Munich, to be hosted by our fine VP, to address the problem.

    But, please, people, really!  You have taken your eye off the ball.  Remember – at least we got rid of Trump!

    • #60
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