Russia Invades Ukraine

 

In a speech Wednesday night, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a “special military operation,” followed immediately by troops entering Ukraine and large explosions throughout the country.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed the attack and declared martial law. Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba called it a “full-scale invasion,” adding, “Peaceful Ukrainian cities are under strikes. This is a war of aggression. Ukraine will defend itself and will win. The world can and must stop Putin. The time to act is now.”

Putin strenuously warned against international meddling. “To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside: if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history,” he said. “All relevant decisions have been taken.”

President Biden issued a statement: “The prayers of the entire world are with the people of Ukraine tonight as they suffer an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces.” He added that he will consult with the leaders of the G7 on Thursday and promised “severe sanctions.”

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  1. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Tyrion Lannister (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    In this example, America *is* the cops. We know who the bad guy is, we are armed, Ukraine is at risk of grievous death, we possess the skill to intervene more so than anyone on the planet, and the crowd will not intervene. And, we’ve already gotten the 911 call.

    Because that worked out so well in Afghanistan.  And Libya.  And so on.

    • #121
  2. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Quietpi (View Comment):
    I view much of this, “it’s not our problem,” “who cares what happens to Ukraine,” sentiment as America’s New Isolationism.  People who know something of the history of the events between the wars I mentioned above, know full well how that era’s American isolationism contributed to WW II, and very nearly led to the destruction of the UK. 

    Here we are , being led down the path to another overseas war, while our Republic burns at home.  Folly.  We can accomplish little more than to further destabilize our own country, which opportunity will of course be seized upon by the “crisis go to waste” crowd currently eating our rights.

     

    • #122
  3. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Viruscop (View Comment):

     

    The truth is never what the Russian government claims it to be. I remember reading, in this book, that during the Second Chechen War Russia claimed that the Chechen leaders were radical Islamists in league with Al-Qaeda. That was a lie, but the Bush administration was very stupid and believed anything that anyone said anywhere if it made Islam seem scarier.

     

    Yeah, those Boston marathon bombers were great non-radical Islamists.

    • #123
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Well yes.

    Mr Biden has been bought and sold by both sides in this conflict (and also by the Chinese), mostly through his whore-impregnating, coke-snorting son. But the succession of actions he took as POTUS clearly show a Russian bias. Cancelling the US-Canadian pipeline, stopping drilling and fracking on federal land made the US energy dependent again and thus unable to bail out Europe. Promoting Nordstream 2, failing to arm Ukraine, making that idiotic comment about “a minor incursion”, it keeps going on and on… all of these played into Vladimir’s hand, just as Mr Obama did with his treasonous remarks in Vienna.

    Mr Biden’s clear lack of competence in leaving Kabul, in running our Mexican border and in running day to day affairs shows that this is the time for despots to act.

    Even if we don’t enter the fray, and I pray we won’t, this invasion is Mr Biden’s war. We have legitimate interests in Ukrainian sovereignty and freedom, but it is obvious that our POTUS and the cabal that direct him are incapable of rationally defending those interests. So if we send troops over, I’ll be in the demonstrations chanting “hey hey, ho ho, Hunter’s father has to go” or whatever.

    Always remember, this didn’t happen while DJT was POTUS. My goodness, how I miss that man.

    But Gary assures us it’s all for the best.

    • #124
  5. Terry Mott Member
    Terry Mott
    @TerryMott

    Here’s another observation to keep us all up at nights:

    Assuming Biden is cognizant enough to realize what’s going on, the stress of all this can’t be good for his (apparently declining) health.  We might end up with President Harris before too long.

    • #125
  6. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    The U.S. has been considered the defacto “Policeman of the World” for about 70 years now.

    Self-styled. And has no legitimate authority.

    That’s not really self-styled.  The rest of the world thinks we are “the cops.”  And of course there is no legitimate authority for it, but there is no legitimate authority for Russia to invade Ukraine, either.  There are no really enforceable rules or authorities on the World stage (not even the U.N.).  There are only agreements and consensual behaviors between countries.

    • #126
  7. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Not. For. You. To. Decide.

    What a ridiculous line of disagreement. A hostile non sequitur. Nice.

    Is it the expression of the opinion that you find unacceptable? The possessing of the opinion? Should Mental just shut up in your world? Will there be no comments except from those who issue orders?

    Did Mental just claim to have issued orders that we will not strike Russia?

    I cannot see a logical interpretation of your response in the context of what Mental said. It just sounds like tiresome hostile garbage. Note that Mental’s use of the One. Word. Sentence. Device. is addressed to the world at large, whereas yours is directed straight at him. Nobody here needs to be put in his place or pointedly insulted with tone like that.

    Maybe this conversaton gets better as it goes, but it’s off to a bad start by the second comment.

    I don’t often get my “tone police” on, but for some reason, this sort of assault micturation just gets to me.

    I just see it as an alternative take on the aphorism -“You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.”

    I think that would have been much better, and even offers points for discussion.  For example, it’s not just the Russians who are interested in war for (me).

    • #127
  8. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    BDB (View Comment):

    Quietpi (View Comment):
    I view much of this, “it’s not our problem,” “who cares what happens to Ukraine,” sentiment as America’s New Isolationism. People who know something of the history of the events between the wars I mentioned above, know full well how that era’s American isolationism contributed to WW II, and very nearly led to the destruction of the UK.

    Here we are , being led down the path to another overseas war, while our Republic burns at home. Folly. We can accomplish little more than to further destabilize our own country, which opportunity will of course be seized upon by the “crisis go to waste” crowd currently eating our rights.

     

    Especially if we refuse to increase oil production and can’t replace our Russian imports…

    A war in Ukraine or bombing the pipeline would be more disastrous to all of Europe and America if we do not increase production here.

    • #128
  9. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    The U.S. has been considered the defacto “Policeman of the World” for about 70 years now.

    Self-styled. And has no legitimate authority.

    That’s not really self-styled. The rest of the world thinks we are “the cops.” And of course there is no legitimate authority for it, but there is no legitimate authority for Russia to invade Ukraine, either. There are no really enforceable rules or authorities on the World stage (not even the U.N.). There are only agreements and consensual behaviors between countries.

    Ukraine, if sovereign, is the authority over their borders. Not NATO, not the UN, the EU, or the USA.

    They are within their rights to enforce their border to the best of their ability.

    They can even ask for help. But we are in no position to agree to certain aid.

    • #129
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stina (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    Really? It’s Biden’s fault. I’m a traitor now! Come collect me.

    Is this Nato’s fault?

    NATO attempting to break an agreement, whether the agreement was rightly or wrongly decided, is going to cause international problems.

    That is what they did, right?

    If they wanted to break the agreement, maybe they should have done so while Russia was competing with the US for oil exports and forced the US into an agreement not to scale back on oil production.

    Would you expect Biden et al to not renege on such an agreement, “Because Climate Change!” or whatever?  I wouldn’t.

    • #130
  11. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    BDB (View Comment):

    In this example, America *is* the cops. We know who the bad guy is, we are armed, Ukraine is at risk of grievous death, we possess the skill to intervene more so than anyone on the planet, and the crowd will not intervene. And, we’ve already gotten the 911 call.

    Because that worked out so well in Afghanistan. And Libya. And so on.

    Those are very good examples of failures, but don’t forget South Korea and almost the entire Communist World which collapsed with the help of our persistence.  And not to forget that international trade is only possible because the U.S. guards the entire World’s shipping lanes against piracy.

    • #131
  12. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    The U.S. has been considered the defacto “Policeman of the World” for about 70 years now.

    How’s that working out for us?  Or for the world, for that matter?  IMHO, that is an outdated point of view.  It’s not true anymore, and the world is finding that out.  I’ve said for well over a decade now that (since the election of the Marxist Destroyer Obama), we are no longer capable of committing to do things because we are never more than an electon away from Marxist, reductionist rule at home.  We should promise nobody anything, because we will not deliver.

    Like assuming debt and then mismanaging finances, we are now bankrupt on the world stage.  Our promises were not unreasonable, but the Alinskyite reduction of this country has made us incapable of honoring commitments.

    • #132
  13. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    The U.S. has been considered the defacto “Policeman of the World” for about 70 years now.

    Self-styled. And has no legitimate authority.

    Yup.  The moral authority came with our being widely accepted as the “exception nation”.  Clinton and Obama hated that.  The former PM of Singapore or South Korea said during the Clinton administration that it is a bad thing that the US had assumed a common station among the nations — something to that effect.  And that we and the world would regret it.

    Smart guy. 

    Obama did not misunderstand American exceptionalism when he made his kooky remarks about Greece.  He was LYING.  Deflecting, pivoting off the topic.

    Our Iraq war did not help.  Jury’s out for me on that, and I was a supporter at the time, so let me not run from my previous statements.  Afghanistan was valid for a while, but then no.  So here we are with no moral authority granted by our community of nations, and certainly no actual authority.  There is no world government (yet) no matter what the UN-philes say.  That means no global courts and no global law.  Everything in that direction is paper-mache.

    • #133
  14. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Perhaps. But according to John Bolton’s memoir of his time as Trump’s National Security Advisor, Donald Trump was not a consistent supporter of Ukrainian sovereignty.

    Ukraine isn’t even a consistent supporter of their sovereignty. Who are they? Heritage Russians or the US’s puppets? Seems to be they can’t figure it out amongst themselves.

    They are a nation of 40 million people who have been able to keep their national identity despite 400 years of Tsarist oppression, followed by 75 years of Soviet oppression including a famine that caused millions of deaths. They have their own identity, language, culture, and just want to be left in peace.

    Kozak,

    What should we do? Cut Russia off from the banking system? Ramp up our own oil and gas for the world market? Supply non-lethal supplies like food and medicine to Ukraine? Supply lethal arms to Ukraine? I am asking, not advocating, as you are much closer to being an authority than me.

    Gary

    Hmm.

    These are all very Trumpian things to suggest, Gary.

    The election is over. The question is what to do now?

    You voted for the opposite of this foreign policy, Gary. This was what we were doing. You voted against it.

    Bryan, you remind me of the person who is grievously injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital, wants to argue that the accident was someone else’s fault.

    I repeat, what should we do now?

    Work as hard as you can for Trump’s next term to get us out of this domestic mess.  It’s the least you could do, as penance.

    • #134
  15. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The election is over.

    • #135
  16. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Although it does raise the next question of what the alternative in the “if then else” construct above should be.

    I agree.  Questions work well when turned into binaries.  Such as intervene vs not-intervene.  I read “call the cops” as consistent with not-intervene.

    • #136
  17. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    BDB (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    The U.S. has been considered the defacto “Policeman of the World” for about 70 years now.

    How’s that working out for us? Or for the world, for that matter? IMHO, that is an outdated point of view. It’s not true anymore, and the world is finding that out. I’ve said for well over a decade now that (since the election of the Marxist Destroyer Obama), we are no longer capable of committing to do things because we are never more than an electon away from Marxist, reductionist rule at home. We should promise nobody anything, because we will not deliver.

    It has worked out pretty well for about 60 or 70 years and has kept the World relatively peaceful until yesterday.  Of course it could all go downhill in the twinkling of an eye if the good guys decide to abdicate.

    • #137
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    BDB (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    The U.S. has been considered the defacto “Policeman of the World” for about 70 years now.

    How’s that working out for us? Or for the world, for that matter? IMHO, that is an outdated point of view. It’s not true anymore, and the world is finding that out. I’ve said for well over a decade now that (since the election of the Marxist Destroyer Obama), we are no longer capable of committing to do things because we are never more than an electon away from Marxist, reductionist rule at home. We should promise nobody anything, because we will not deliver.

    Like assuming debt and then mismanaging finances, we are now bankrupt on the world stage. Our promises were not unreasonable, but the Alinskyite reduction of this country has made us incapable of honoring commitments.

    That would mean that it wasn’t unreasonable to make the promises, it was unreasonable to elect Democrats who wouldn’t fulfill them and made it difficult/impossible for Republicans to either.

    • #138
  19. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    In this example, America *is* the cops. We know who the bad guy is, we are armed, Ukraine is at risk of grievous death, we possess the skill to intervene more so than anyone on the planet, and the crowd will not intervene. And, we’ve already gotten the 911 call.

    Because that worked out so well in Afghanistan. And Libya. And so on.

    Those are very good examples of failures, but don’t forget South Korea and almost the entire Communist World which collapsed with the help of our persistence. And not to forget that international trade is only possible because the U.S. guards the entire World’s shipping lanes against piracy.

    Agreed.  The recent ones are failures, while the old ones were successes.

    The world has changed right beneath the feet of the heigh-ho global interventionists.  Obsolete.

    • #139
  20. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    There are no global police because there is no global authority. And heaven help us if there ever is one aside from the Lord God Almighty.

    The U.S. has been considered the defacto “Policeman of the World” for about 70 years now.

    How’s that working out for us? Or for the world, for that matter? IMHO, that is an outdated point of view. It’s not true anymore, and the world is finding that out. I’ve said for well over a decade now that (since the election of the Marxist Destroyer Obama), we are no longer capable of committing to do things because we are never more than an electon away from Marxist, reductionist rule at home. We should promise nobody anything, because we will not deliver.

    It has worked out pretty well for about 60 or 70 years and has kept the World relatively peaceful until yesterday. Of course it could all go downhill in the twinkling of an eye if the good guys decide to abdicate.

    Which already happened.

    And just so it doesn’t sound like I’m talking out both sides of my head, even if we had a generation of Ronald Reagans, it would take a generation to get back to where we were.  And there isn’t going to be a generation of Reagans.  We may actually be out of the election business in this country.  Remains to be seen, but the “early returns” are pretty grim.

    • #140
  21. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    BDB (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Although it does raise the next question of what the alternative in the “if then else” construct above should be.

    I agree. Questions work well when turned into binaries. Such as intervene vs not-intervene. I read “call the cops” as consistent with not-intervene.

    “Walk on by and do nothing” is non-intervening.  “Call the cops” is intervening.

    • #141
  22. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Although it does raise the next question of what the alternative in the “if then else” construct above should be.

    I agree. Questions work well when turned into binaries. Such as intervene vs not-intervene. I read “call the cops” as consistent with not-intervene.

    “Walk on by and do nothing” is non-intervening. “Call the cops” is intervening.

    Alright, word games?  I’m done.  Thanks anyway.

    • #142
  23. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    BDB (View Comment):

    Tyrion Lannister (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    I’m trying to figure this out for myself. I really am asking a question. How does one square that circle?

    Most everyone here, when there is a post regarding that kind of behavior, is quick to say that not trying to help is a sign that we are a society in decline. How do we go from there to not-my-problem?

    I’ll take a stab at it:

    1. Do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?
    2. Do you know if any of them are armed/not armed?
      1. Are YOU armed?
    3. Is someone at risk of grievous injury or death?
    4. Do you possess the skills needed to intervene successfully?
    5. Will others in the crowd support your efforts, or at least not hamper you?

    If the answers to all questions are yes, consider intervening. Otherwise call the cops.

    In this example, America *is* the cops. We know who the bad guy is, we are armed, Ukraine is at risk of grievous death, we possess the skill to intervene more so than anyone on the planet, and the crowd will not intervene. And, we’ve already gotten the 911 call.

    Because that worked out so well in Afghanistan. And Libya. And so on.

    It actually did.  There are numerous examples of  even nation building working (Germany, Korea, Japan), let alone peace keeping.  Afghanistan was relatively stable and under our control with a small peacekeeping force until Biden happened.  Libya was just us bombing, it wasn’t a ground war.  I don’t think we put any ground forces there.  I’m not even promoting a ground war, necessarily.  I’m an advocate of  sending weapons to help the Ukrainians kill a lot of Russians, and of doing everything we can to financially ruin Russia.  

    • #143
  24. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Perhaps. But according to John Bolton’s memoir of his time as Trump’s National Security Advisor, Donald Trump was not a consistent supporter of Ukrainian sovereignty.

    Ukraine isn’t even a consistent supporter of their sovereignty. Who are they? Heritage Russians or the US’s puppets? Seems to be they can’t figure it out amongst themselves.

    They are a nation of 40 million people who have been able to keep their national identity despite 400 years of Tsarist oppression, followed by 75 years of Soviet oppression including a famine that caused millions of deaths. They have their own identity, language, culture, and just want to be left in peace.

    Kozak,

    What should we do? Cut Russia off from the banking system? Ramp up our own oil and gas for the world market? Supply non-lethal supplies like food and medicine to Ukraine? Supply lethal arms to Ukraine? I am asking, not advocating, as you are much closer to being an authority than me.

    Gary

    Hmm.

    These are all very Trumpian things to suggest, Gary.

    The election is over. The question is what to do now?

    You voted for the opposite of this foreign policy, Gary. This was what we were doing. You voted against it.

    Bryan, you remind me of the person who is grievously injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital, wants to argue that the accident was someone else’s fault.

    I repeat, what should we do now?

    Work as hard as you can for Trump’s next term to get us out of this domestic mess. It’s the least you could do, as penance.

    I agree on this at least.  Much of this is on Biden

    • #144
  25. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    I also have serious doubts about our military readiness.

    Our Wokesters in the Pentagon aren’t inspiring confidence? ; )

    • #145
  26. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Not. My. Problem.

    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people who, when witnessing violence on urban streets, walk on by or get out their phones and record video instead of helping?
    Is your response to that “Not. Their. Problem.” ?

    Or

    Is your response “What kind of people are they who won’t help?”

    Just curious to know.

     

    Not being willing to risk one’s life on the street is what, a horrible sin?

    Ekosj, what are you for, other than telling someone they are a bad person for not wanting to get involved?

    Yeah I think if someone witnesses violence on the street and videos it instead of helping they are a bad person.  Granted different people have different abilities to help but we all know what type of examples he means.

    • #146
  27. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    BDB (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    You voted for Biden, right?

    You remind me of someone who has been injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital wants to argue who’s at fault.  

    What should we do now?

    • #147
  28. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Europe is probably longing for Trump right now.

    Well yes.

    Mr Biden has been bought and sold by both sides in this conflict (and also by the Chinese), mostly through his whore-impregnating, coke-snorting son. But the succession of actions he took as POTUS clearly show a Russian bias. Cancelling the US-Canadian pipeline, stopping drilling and fracking on federal land made the US energy dependent again and thus unable to bail out Europe. Promoting Nordstream 2, failing to arm Ukraine, making that idiotic comment about “a minor incursion”, it keeps going on and on… all of these played into Vladimir’s hand, just as Mr Obama did with his treasonous remarks in Vienna.

    Mr Biden’s clear lack of competence in leaving Kabul, in running our Mexican border and in running day to day affairs shows that this is the time for despots to act.

    Even if we don’t enter the fray, and I pray we won’t, this invasion is Mr Biden’s war. We have legitimate interests in Ukrainian sovereignty and freedom, but it is obvious that our POTUS and the cabal that direct him are incapable of rationally defending those interests. So if we send troops over, I’ll be in the demonstrations chanting “hey hey, ho ho, Hunter’s father has to go” or whatever.

    Always remember, this didn’t happen while DJT was POTUS. My goodness, how I miss that man.

    But Gary assures us it’s all for the best.

    You remind me of someone who has been in a car accident and instead of getting to the hospital wants to argue who is at fault. 

    What should we do now?

    • #148
  29. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    I mean if you listened to/read about Putin’s last couple of speeches he seemed a little frighteningly unhinged. Whether that is by design or he really thinks paranoid nonsense we may never know.

    So what should the US do? How do we and “the West” intervene in a way that actually achieves whatever the objective is?

    I’m not an expert on this as I assume some are.  Some options could be:

    1.  The West Immediately imposes every economic sanction imaginable.

    2. Supply Ukranian forces with as much material assistance as possible for as long as possible.  Don’t send MREs instead of ammo like Obama did.

    3.  Don’t fall foe Putin’s “denazification” bs.  He has invaded a sovereign nation.

    4.  Deploy troops and armor in the event things spill out of Ukraine, both American and European forces.

     

    I’m sure these aren’t the most original ideas as I am a contractor not a foreign policy expert.  Still, it seems obvious there are options other than ground forces fighting Russia in Ukraine.

    • #149
  30. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is all very sad.

    Apparently, if I point out Putin seems to know what he is doing, I am pro Putin.

    So I can be on the side of angels, what am I supposed to Be for?

    No, but if you think that this is American’s fault, you are.

    I’m not saying that you believe that, but blaming America for this is accepting a pro-Russian narrative.

    You voted for Biden, right?

    You remind me of someone who has been injured in a car accident, and instead of getting to the hospital wants to argue who’s at fault.

    What should we do now?

    Especially since many of the options that had existed – such as those relying on US energy independence – no longer exist because of votes like yours, assigning blame does have some value.  As well as pointing out that, based on your record, maybe you shouldn’t vote in the future.  You just make things worse.  Leave it to those who know better.  You vote for people who make things worse, and then ask “what do we do now?”  To borrow from the old Lone Ranger joke, “what do you mean ‘we,’ white-man?”

    • #150
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