The Catholics say hope is a theological virtue, and while none of the four participants in a special Need to Know is Catholic, all are upholding it this week.

Peter Wehner joined first, Wednesday morning, for reflections on the challenge to conservatives of a Trump presidency. On Thursday, Jay and Mona welcomed David French. They talk Supreme Court, Obamacare, and then, inevitably, foreign policy and character. It’s a bizarre stew, cooked up by history.

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  1. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Mona and Jay,

    Your choice of guests for this podcast was excellent.  David French and Peter Wehner both have an excellent grasp of the challenges President Trump will face next year.  Yes, we must hope that Trump can be a better president than his behavior in his business career or his marriages would indicate.

    • #1
  2. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    As a Nevertrumper from the start, let me say, OF COURSE THERE’S HOPE!  First, our ultimate hope was never really in a presidency anyway (even if our dream candidate was now awaiting inauguration). But you guys knew that (still needs to be said). Second, there’s a lot of hope in what the voters rejected.  They  did not reject conservatism, maybe it wasn’t on the ballot, but it certainly was not rejected.  They rejected Obamaism and Clintonism and Washington D.C.ism.  There’s a lot of good in that. Third, there is a lot of hope that strongish GOP majorities in Congress and a very solid Mike Pence can guide this less-than-conservative president in a conservative direction.  Is he really going to veto an Obamacare repeal bill? Finally, I think there is a lot of hope in the possibility the office may grow-up Trump, sober him, humble him (although I expressed doubts about it in the past).  A fuller listing of my hopeful observations on the election can be found here  (“About last night“) and here (“Obama as Ozymandias“).  Don’t you just love it when people quote themselves?  How gauche is that?

    • #2
  3. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    At the very least, Trump might be successfully impeached if he gets out of hand, whereas the Democrats would never allow Hillary to be ousted no matter how criminal/dangerous she became.

    • #3
  4. Patrickb63 Coolidge
    Patrickb63
    @Patrickb63

    The election is over.  He won.  You were wrong.  Get over it.

    • #4
  5. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Wrong about whether he could win, not wrong that he is unfit for the office.

    • #5
  6. Patrickb63 Coolidge
    Patrickb63
    @Patrickb63

    J Climacus:

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Wrong about whether he could win, not wrong that he is unfit for the office.

    J, I was a reluctant Trumper.  Still am I guess.  But I see this as a more high tone version of what the kids on the coasts are doing.  “Is there hope?”  Really?  How about, instead, they focus on the same things being discussed on the member feed?  That is, the fact that now that Hillary is defeated, what can we do to push a conservative agenda in the new administration.  There is hope.  If you have to ask if hope exists, you will never move past the fact that Trump was elected.

    • #6
  7. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    J Climacus:

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Wrong about whether he could win, not wrong that he is unfit for the office.

    JC, would you accept a friendly amendment from a fellow nevertrumper: “not wrong to be concerned that he was unfit for office but hoping Trump governs more conservatively and less recklessly than he campaigned–at times.”

    • #7
  8. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Patrickb63:J, I was a reluctant Trumper. Still am I guess. But I see this as a more high tone version of what the kids on the coasts are doing. “Is there hope?” Really? How about, instead, they focus on the same things being discussed on the member feed? That is, the fact that now that Hillary is defeated, what can we do to push a conservative agenda in the new administration. There is hope. If you have to ask if hope exists, you will never move past the fact that Trump was elected.

    There is hope.  There is also serious concern that Trump will be a disaster as president.

     

     

    • #8
  9. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Mr. Conservative:

    J Climacus:

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Wrong about whether he could win, not wrong that he is unfit for the office.

    JC, would you accept a friendly amendment from a fellow nevertrumper: “not wrong to be concerned that he was unfit for office but hoping Trump governs more conservatively and less recklessly than he campaigned–at times.”

    Exactly.  When Trump criticized the mainstream press for not taking the National Enquirer story about Ted Cruz’s father being involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, I became concerned that Trump is just not in touch with reality.  But I would like to be proven wrong.

    When Trump said during the 1st Republican presidential debate in 2015 that socialized medicine works incredibly well in Scotland and Canada, I became concerned that Trump is a leftist in Republican clothing.   Again, I would like to be proven wrong.

    • #9
  10. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    [redacted]

    • #10
  11. Richard Easton Member
    Richard Easton
    @RichardEaston

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Pearl clutchers are unlikely to ever get over it.  They suffer from the  terrible burden that they’re so much better than the people who voted for Trump.

    • #11
  12. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    Richard Easton:

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Pearl clutchers are unlikely to ever get over it. They suffer from the terrible burden that they’re so much better than the people who voted for Trump.

    Now who is it that thinks they are better than everyone else? Pot meet kettle, kettle, pot.

    • #12
  13. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    Hang On:All four of them can go to hell.

    That what I like to see, magnamity in victory.

    • #13
  14. Richard Easton Member
    Richard Easton
    @RichardEaston

    Mr. Conservative:

    Richard Easton:

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Pearl clutchers are unlikely to ever get over it. They suffer from the terrible burden that they’re so much better than the people who voted for Trump.

    Now who is it that thinks they are better than everyone else? Pot meet kettle, kettle, pot.

    Your attempt at equivalence does not work.  I didn’t hector people the way some of the never Trumpers did for the past year.

    • #14
  15. Richard Easton Member
    Richard Easton
    @RichardEaston

    Mr. Conservative:

    Hang On:All four of them can go to hell.

    That what I like to see, magnamity in victory.

    Some of us are angry that the Republican establishment opposed Trump with a vehemence they never displayed with Obama.

    • #15
  16. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    Richard Easton:

    Mr. Conservative:

    Hang On:All four of them can go to hell.

    That what I like to see, magnamity in victory.

    Some of us are angry that the Republican establishment opposed Trump with a vehemence they never displayed with Obama.

    Obviously. And I don’t deny that it is a natural human reaction.   I’m sure I have been the chief of all sinners in this regard in the past. The question though is whether your natural  emotional response is a wise strategy. if you are truly a conservative, I would think you see both conservative reluctant trumpers and conservative never Trumper’s as allies for the future. Allies that you will need.

    • #16
  17. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Richard Easton:

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Pearl clutchers are unlikely to ever get over it. They suffer from the terrible burden that they’re so much better than the people who voted for Trump.

    The phrase “pearl clutchers” made people plenty mad before the election, it’s not going to help now afterwards.

    In the interests of site comity, please refrain from using it.

    Richard Easton: Your attempt at equivalence does not work. I didn’t hector people the way some of the never Trumpers did for the past year.

    As a reluctant Trumper myself, I know the hectoring.  However, our own side was pretty awful at it too and it’s not worth it trying to settle scores.  Now that we’re past the election, let’s please put this behind.  Job #1 now is holding our team accountable in DC.

    • #17
  18. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    Richard Easton:

    Mr. Conservative:

    Richard Easton:

    Patrickb63:The election is over. He won. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Pearl clutchers are unlikely to ever get over it. They suffer from the terrible burden that they’re so much better than the people who voted for Trump.

    Now who is it that thinks they are better than everyone else? Pot meet kettle, kettle, pot.

    Your attempt at equivalence does not work. I didn’t hector people the way some of the never Trumpers did for the past year.

    If you need to, gloat for a few days. Rub it in. But as I said above, if you are truly a conservative, you will see conservative  reluctanttrumpers  and conservative never Trumper’s as your allies someday soon, I hope.  Most would love to be proven wrong about their initial reaction to trump.

    • #18
  19. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Richard Easton: Some of us are angry that the Republican establishment opposed Trump with a vehemence they never displayed with Obama.

    Sure and I get that, but by the same token, since he has now won, they’ll have to support him if they want to be in “the in crowd”.  We won the immediate battle with them, let’s look forward.

    • #19
  20. ParisParamus Member
    ParisParamus
    @ParisParamus

    This podcast-place remains a sad place. How about just seeing what the guy does.  Forget honeymoon; how about honey-minute?

    • #20
  21. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Mr. Conservative:If you need to, gloat for a few days. Rub it in. But as I said above, if you are truly a conservative, you will see conservative reluctanttrumpers and conservative never Trumper’s as your allies someday soon, I hope. Most would love to be proven wrong about their initial reaction to trump.

    It’s a matter of what “value added” do any of them bring?

    Jay and Mona are huge negatives. Neocons should be absolutely scorned. Their policy views on foreign policy are anathema.

    Peter Wehner is just pure poison. Anyone who published the screeds he did should be tossed aside.

    • #21
  22. Patrickb63 Coolidge
    Patrickb63
    @Patrickb63

    Spiral: There is hope. There is also serious concern that Trump will be a disaster as president.

    True.  Still no reason to keep chewing the electoral cud.  Time to move on to how we push Trump to keep a conservative agenda.

    • #22
  23. Ario IronStar Inactive
    Ario IronStar
    @ArioIronStar

    @monacharen (6:45 of the podcast): “The media-types on both sides of the spectrum to do some serious self-examination…the so-called MSM really have to ask themselves how did we help to create this toxic environment…those in the responsible conservative media say how did we empower (the alt right)…”

    After a year’s worth of what I saw as increasingly unhinged and, frankly, insulting behavior from the hosts of this podcast, I decided to do my best to give them another chance, thinking perhaps there might be a rethink about the circumstances and their own reaction to it.  I thought, perhaps in the spirit of “let us hope” there might be something to bring it back together.

    Mona displays no interest in self-examination.  There is zero recognition that a decisive chunk of voters have had it with the condescending know-it-alls of both parties.  Mona certainly gives the Obama-like impression that she believes she knows it all, and dammit, she has absolutely nothing to learn from being superior, boorish, insulting (one might say Trump-like), and ultimately embarrassingly wrong.

    What will happen if Trump behaves like an adult?  What if he slashes regulations, returns proper authority to the states, successfully empannels conservative judges?  Conducts foreign policy as one would expect with a John Bolton as SecState?

    Whither Mona?  One expects her to pick at any scab she can in an attempt to save face.  The behavior of the persistent NeverTrumpers has yielded irrelevance.

    • #23
  24. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    Hang On:

    Mr. Conservative:If you need to, gloat for a few days. Rub it in. But as I said above, if you are truly a conservative, you will see conservative reluctanttrumpers and conservative never Trumper’s as your allies someday soon, I hope. Most would love to be proven wrong about their initial reaction to trump.

    It’s a matter of what “value added” do any of them bring?

    Jay and Mona are huge negatives. Neocons should be absolutely scorned. Their policy views on foreign policy are anathema.

    Peter Wehner is just pure poison. Anyone who published the screeds he did should be tossed aside.

    Well, I am still more of a neocon than you would like foreign policy-wise (Iraqi invasion good, aftemath bad), but why wouldn’t you want my help/support  in getting Obamacare repealed, taxes lowered, putting conservative justices on the Supreme Court, shrinking bureaucracy, etc.  I think you would err to write-off all nevertrumpers/relunctantrumpers and not use them where you can on issues where there is common cause.

    • #24
  25. Crow's Nest Inactive
    Crow's Nest
    @CrowsNest

    At one point in the podcast after speaking with Pete Wehner, Mona says that Trump deserves some time in office to see if he grows into it free from attacks from the right. She and Jay then proceed to spend the next 40-odd minutes attacking Trump, proving for them that it is basically impossible to allow him that space. Among other things, they bemoan the fact that Trump isn’t Mr. Wholesome and scold the voters for having chosen this man.

    American society is a deeply decadent place right now: the universities live high on the hog and teach subversion where they don’t teach nonsense; popular entertainments feed only the base appetites; the media is deeply in bed (literally) with one political party; many in our elite are insular, nihilistic, vain, and oblivious–we seriously spend time and taxpayer money debating where “women” with penises are allowed to urinate while simultaneously being trillions of dollars in debt; church attendance is through the floor, and some of our churches are mired in their own sexual scandals; many of our working stiffs–those who are still working, anyway–are surrounded by family and neighbors who are drug addled, out of work, out of wedlock, etc; trust in almost every societal institution is dismal……I could go on.

    Against this backdrop, its really not all that shocking that Trump is resonating. Political virtue doesn’t always go together with personal uprightness.

    We have to work with what we have.

    • #25
  26. Ario IronStar Inactive
    Ario IronStar
    @ArioIronStar

    With regard to the “narcissistic personality disorder”, one needs to recognize that that is a pop-psych diagnosis.  I think it is useful to describe many of his traits.  But it is not clinically meaningful.  And is is really foolish to continue to view him as if it is comprehensively defining.

    Mona and Jay would be quite surprised by the pop-psych diagnosis that we could, in all seriousness, make of them based upon their hundreds of hours of podcasts.

    • #26
  27. Ario IronStar Inactive
    Ario IronStar
    @ArioIronStar

    By the way, don’t talk about the successful frauds of pyramid schemes and Trump university, and then segue into the successful CASPER MATTRESSES.  Are they a fraud as well?  That’s what that implies.  Maybe Casper deserves a refund for that one.

    • #27
  28. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Like Jay Nordlinger, I opposed Trump because I thought he was unfit, not because I thought it was impossible for him to be elected – although I thought he would lose. So I admit to being wrong about that. What I’m pushing back against is the notion that we must now pretend that Trump is someone he isn’t just because he won.

    I have hope he will rise to the occasion, although I expect that he won’t. People tend to play the way they practice – I had hopes for Bill Clinton and Obama based on their good acceptance speeches, but Clinton ended up being Clinton (preternaturally corrupt) and Obama Obama (a community organizer who only knows how to divide and exploit).

    Trump will likely be Trump and there is no point in reviewing his defects of character – but I hope I’m wrong. It’s possible he will rise to the occasion and I pray he will.

    And I can rejoice with everyone that the witch is finally dead.

    • #28
  29. Ario IronStar Inactive
    Ario IronStar
    @ArioIronStar

    Finally, I would like to congratulate David French, not only for wisdom in abandoning a Quixotic endeavor, but in openly expressing a fervent desire that he is wrong about Trump’s character (as I hope I was wrong) and that he proves to be a stable and serious man.

    Also for providing the only recognition in this podcast that the repudiation of Hillary Clinton and her banana republic corruption, the sale of public position unknown in the history of our republic, was repudiated by the electorate. This was enormously important.

    • #29
  30. The Question Inactive
    The Question
    @TheQuestion

    Crow's Nest: She and Jay then proceed to spend the next 40-odd minutes attacking Trump, proving for them that it is basically impossible to allow him that space. Among other things, they bemoan the fact that Trump isn’t Mr. Wholesome and scold the voters for having chosen this man.

    It’s a political opinion podcast.  If they keep their opinions on Trump to themselves, what are they going to talk about?  How are their opinions denying Trump space?

    • #30