It’s Time for a Family Conversation, GOP

 

Dear fellow Republicans – especially those of you who remain loyal and ardently supportive of former President Donald Trump. We need to have a serious and frank family conversation.

I’m no “never Trumper.” I voted for Trump twice. Reluctantly the first time since I’d strongly supported my friend and former US Senator Rick Santorum’s (R-PA) candidacy for the GOP nomination, followed by US Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL), and then finally a vote in the Pennsylvania GOP primary in 2016 for US Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX). Still, there was no way I was voting to help elect Hillary Clinton. Trump got my vote in 2016, Access Hollywood tape and all.

In 2020, I enthusiastically supported Trump. His mostly stellar conservative record as President, capstoned with three impressive Supreme Court confirmations (thanks in no small part to Mitch McConnell), was enough for me. No wars, low inflation, and a booming economy (until Covid) were icing on the cake.

So I’m not here as a “never Trumper.” If he runs and is our nominee in 2024, I’ll vote for him. But we must discuss that in light of the profoundly disappointing 2020 midterm elections. The GOP may win control of the House and Senate, but that is highly uncertain and far less than GOP officials predicted. A GOP majority of 1 – 219 seats – in the House is possible. Talk about no margin for error.

Trump may be a primary reason behind turning a “red wave” into barely a nod.

The problem appears to be with independent voters, which according to one exit poll, broke +2 percent for Democrats, breaking the historic norms for ordinary midterm elections. In midterm elections over the past decade, independents broke for one party or another between 12 to 18 percent, usually the party not in control of the White House. Not so this year. Why? Not sure. Subsequent polling may tell us, but exit polling and speculation suggest Trump’s late machinations over an impending announcement of his 2024 candidacy and the abortion issue, which ranked second to inflation in voters’ minds. Gen Z voters broke heavily for Democrats.

Hear me out. I acknowledge and respect your reasons for supporting him, starting with the grotesquely unfair manner in which he’s been treated by congressional Democrats, the mainstream media, federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies, and even some fellow Republicans. I get your fascination and focus on the threat of “globalism” and elitist “deep state” dominance and Trump’s threat to it.

But he’s become too toxic. It’s time to cut our losses and move on. Trump, who will turn 80 in 2024 and would only be able to serve one term if elected, cost us House and Senate seats and increasingly looks unelectable. Democrats salivate for him to run again and serve as the GOP nominee. They were relieved when he raised his orange head with taunts of a presidential campaign announcement at rallies in Ohio, Pennsylvania (how did that work out?), and elsewhere just before the election.

Consider the evidence. Let’s start with the election results. Which Republicans romped, which ones lost, and why?

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis was the election season’s big winner with a nearly 20-point romp over former GOP-turned-Democrat former Gov. Charlie Crist. His margin helped the GOP capture four new US House seats and aided Rubio in his landslide over Democratic US Rep. Val Demmings. Just four years ago, DeSantis won a tight and even surprising 30,000-vote win over Andrew Gillum.

DeSantis enjoyed no support from Trump this election. Shortly before the election, Trump attacked DeSantis at one of his rallies, calling him “Ron DeSanctimonious.” It didn’t seem to hurt, did it?

And then there’s New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, who also ran without Trump’s support or blessing. He won by 17 points. The Granite State’s congressional candidates all ran as pro-Trump Republicans, including the estimable General Don Bolduc for US Senate. Nearly 20 percent of Sununu’s vote went to Democratic incumbent Maggie Hassan. The two GOP House candidates, including a former Trump White House staffer, also lost decisively.

Democrats spent millions in the GOP primary to promote Bolduc’s candidacy over former St. Sen. President Chuck Morse. It worked. Could Morse have defeated Hassan? We’ll never know, but he was more aligned with Sununu than Trump or Bolduc.

Overall, Democrats spent an estimated $46 million in GOP primaries to promote the most pro-Trump candidates, including Darren Bailey for Governor of Illinois (he lost), Bolduc, and several House candidates, many of whom in competitive races lost, especially the Trump-endorsed John Gibbs in Michigan’s previously GOP-held Third Congressional district. Gibbs defeated incumbent Rep. Peter Meijer in the GOP primary, then lost the general election by 13 points.

Georgia’s incumbent Governor, Brian Kemp, also cruised to reelection over his 2018 opponent, election denier Stacey Abrams. In May, Trump endorsed his primary opponent, former US Senator David Perdue (defeated in the 2020 Georgia Senate runoff). Kemp demolished Perdue with 71% of the GOP primary vote. On the other hand, Trump-endorsed US Senate nominee Herschel Walker ran at least five points behind Kemp and now is headed to a December runoff that may decide which party controls the US Senate.

Last is incumbent Governor Mike DeWine’s 25-point romp to reelection in the Buckeye State. While Trump’s late endorsement in Ohio’s US Senate primary catapulted author (Hillbilly Elegy) JD Vance to the nomination, he won his election by just 7 points. Three GOP candidates for state Supreme Court seats fared better, all with double-digit victories. Former Marine and Yale Law-educated Vance kept his distance from Trump in the general election. JD Vance is now Senator-elect.

Vance may owe his nomination to Trump, but that endorsement was a burden. His margin of victory mirrored Trump’s Ohio win two years ago.

Arizona remains a mystery, given the vagueries of its bizarre election counting system. Both gubernatorial nominee Kari Lake and Senate nominee Blake Masters – endorsed by Trump and embracing him in return – are trailing at this stage. Democratic nominee and Secretary of State Katie Hobbs was singularly the worst candidate of the 2022 election. And she may win.

In Pennsylvania, Trump’s endorsement of New Jersey transplant and celebrity doctor Mehmet Oz propelled him to a narrow GOP primary election win. His late endorsement of GOP gubernatorial candidate Doug Mastriano helped seal his primary win. How did those candidates fare? I think you know. Trump now reportedly blames his wife for his endorsement of Oz. Wow. Don’t try that at home.

Want more evidence? How about a poll conducted in a “red” part of Florida (what part isn’t red anymore?) by a pollster and their client, whose names I will protect.

QUESTION  *. WOULD YOU BE MORE OR LESS LIKELY TO VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE WHO IS A DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER? 

                       1.    Much More          24%

                       2.    Somewhat more    9%   

                       3.    Somewhat less      4%

                       4.    Much less             43% 

                       5.    No difference       15%

                      6.   Not sure                 6%

It doesn’t take a math genius to realize that there is a 14-point difference between those somewhat or more likely to support Trump candidates (33%) and those less inclined (47%). And pay attention to the intensity – 43% are “much less” likely. That is yuge, as Trump might say.

I know what some of you are saying. “The GOP can’t win without us,” extol fervent Trump supporters, citing polls showing him as the clear favorite for the GOP presidential nomination in 2024. For now. But midterm election polls and results also show that more voters are lost than gained by Trump’s embrace.

I also know the popular MAGA argument for Trump, as shared in this interesting American Thinker post by J.B. Shurk.

There are videos making the rounds showing President Trump standing on stage in Miami’s pouring rain while imploring Americans to get out and vote.  The metaphor is striking.  There’s Trump, battling the elements, lively as ever, refusing to give up, insisting on finishing what he’s started.  Citizen Free Press appropriately notes that “President Trump is truly a force of nature.”

I know that the months ahead will make for some spirited political debate among friends, but I encourage you to cement in your minds this quintessential image of Trump unbroken and unbowed.  Whatever else can be said about the man (and there is plenty), he remains the only leader in our times unafraid to stand alone.  When other self-proclaimed allies run the other way or look for somewhere safe to weather the approaching storm, Trump stands inside the tempest, demanding that it give up and surrender.  That’s something that will forever separate him from those who pretend to be him.

It has become normal to deconstruct Trump’s public appeal to something as basic as he fights!  Yet it is not just that Trump fights; it is why he fights that has attracted such a diverse voting coalition unlike any other political movement today.

I get all that. Ardent Trumpers also cite support for DeSantis from alleged “globalists,” including major GOP financiers like Ken Griffin. Funny, DeSantis hasn’t behaved like one. And DeSantis, for his part, has never criticized Donald Trump. Some thanks he gets, being called “Ron DeSanctimonious.” Trump’s name-calling schtick is getting a bit old and lame.

The problem is this: Unfairly or not, Trump is toxic. Charles C.W. Cooke, editor of the National Review opines:

I’m not being cute: Trump is the Republican establishment now. He’s the default, the Man, the swamp. It is Trump who is widely considered the front-runner for the party’s nomination in 2024. It is Trump whose endorsements are treated as if they were official edicts. It is Trump to whom the press and the public tend to link all GOP nominees. And, judging by the squeals that emanated from his allies yesterday, Trump’s machine intends to do everything it can to keep it that way, and to thus ensure that he wins the next primary election and loses the next presidential election. With the country in its present state, Republicans simply cannot afford that sort of frivolous, low-energy, old-boys-club complacency. GOPe, you’re on notice.

A few days ago, Trump started criticizing Ron DeSantis. A day or two later, Trump started threatening DeSantis. “I think if he runs,” Trump said, “he could hurt himself very badly. I really believe he could hurt himself badly. I don’t think it would be good for the party.” Upping the ante, Trump then pretended that he knew “things” about DeSantis “that won’t be very flattering,” and promised to reveal them if DeSantis even considered challenging him in 2024.

This is classic establishment gate-keeping. It is also richly undeserved. Trump is a loser. He squeaked past the most unpopular woman in America in 2016, he presided over a blue wave in 2018, he lost to a barely breathing Joe Biden in 2020, and he hand-picked a bevy of losing Republican nominees in 2022. Ron DeSantis is a winner. He beat the Democratic wave in 2018, he got the biggest challenge of the last four years — the Covid-19 pandemic — almost exactly right, and he won reelection by the largest margin achieved by any Republican gubernatorial nominee in Florida’s 177-year-history. Perhaps, on the internet, “loser lambasts winner” is an interesting story. In the real world, it is not.

And conservative Twitter might have already moved on.

Voters also are not interested in relitigating the 2020 election or putting up with so-called “election deniers,” even though Trump has strong cases that election irregularities and even fraud played a significant role. The scourge of “vote by mail” fueled by Democrats during the pandemic is a curse on our election system and invites corruption and distrust in the integrity of our elections. But that ship has sailed. The need here is not airing grievances but fixing laws at the state level.

This is no endorsement of DeSantis, someone I’ve never met. There will be several strong candidates in the race, especially if Trump bows out to play “senior statesman.” I won’t name them – you know. And while Trump may still have the pole position as we advance, we need to be blunt. Our country needs a strong leader after the Biden-Harris debacle, but Trump is the likely major GOP candidate least likely to recapture the presidency and course-correct the nation. And we cannot afford another Democratic presidency.

The Democrats’ best hope to retain power is a Trump nomination in 2024. He helped deliver them a mild midterm election.

Let’s not give it to them. This is not being “never Trump.” It is being “over Trump.”

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  1. Gary Robbins 🚫 Banned
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    I am looking at the most recent votes from the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office as of 9:32 p.m. on Thursday night.  (https://azsos.gov/elections).  The leading statewide Republican is Kimberly Yee, whose job as State Treasurer did not merit a Trump Endorsement for her or her primary opponents.  She has 1,104,179 votes and is winning 55.4% to 44.6%.  The second highest vote getter is Kari Lake at 1,004,837 votes, and she is losing to Katie Hobbs, with Lake having 49.3% of the vote and Hobbs having 50.7% of the vote.  (The votes for Mark Finchem for Secretary of State are 950,521 votes and he is losing to the Democrat 52.7% to 47.3%.)

    There are more votes to be counted, but based upon this fragmentary data, which shows Kari Lake about 100,000 votes behind Kimberly Yee, I would say that there were 100,000 more voters who were willing to vote for a generic Republican Candidate, than a Trump Endorsed Candidate for Governor, and over 150,000 votes more than Finchem who was at the Capitol on 1/6/21.  If Trump had stayed out of endorsing in Arizona, I predict that Republicans would have won for Senator, Governor, Secretary of State and Attorney General.

    • #91
  2. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):
    It is neither true nor funny that we elect a “leader to move the American people back to where we should be as a nation.” That’s straight-up Progressivism, even if it does come carrying a cross.

    Since I’m a Constitutionalist in the Russell Kirk sense your characterization of my thoughts as Progressivism is off base. I personally seek a federal executive who abides by the Constitution. The Progressives fail because they try to go well beyond that.

    I cannot characterize your thoughts; only your words, which I quoted.

    • #92
  3. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Speaking of which, where is the outcry about ‘moving on’ from McConnell-who has presided over numerous failures, is hated by almost everybody (including Independents) outside the Beltway, and is largely responsible for huge ruptures within the party, not to mention abused his power to kneecap candidates who wouldn’t commit to supporting him

    I don’t know about the average Republican, but in conservative circles (including this site) there has been a great outcry to replace McConnel for many years now.

    *Kelly Johnson chose to obfuscate this issue, but the fact is that DeSantis is the only alternative to Trump that currently has any strong support or appeal to the conservative base in addition to proven political savvy, and any such list certainly does not include the likes of DeWine, Sununu, and Kemp.

    I think that is mostly because DeSantis soaks up the only news coverage that is left over after they are done talking about Trump. I think the Republican bench is very deep with competent candidates. As an Ohioan, I can tell you that DeWine is not one of them.

     

    Fair enough on your first point, but I was referring to the donor-affiliated political and pundit class in the wake of the Red Dribble.

    As for the second point-its possible, but I can’t think of anyone; people like Abbot, Noem, Paul, Cotton and even Cruz (the first politician I ever voted for, as opposed to using as a means to vote against someone else) are among those making too many past missteps at this point.  I suppose Josh Hawley is a veteran who hasn’t removed himself from contention, but he also hasn’t demonstrated any particular excellence or charisma of which I am aware.

    • #93
  4. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I am looking at the most recent votes from the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office as of 9:32 p.m. on Thursday night. (https://azsos.gov/elections). The leading statewide Republican is Kimberly Yee, whose job as State Treasurer did not merit a Trump Endorsement for her or her primary opponents. She has 1,104,179 votes and is winning 55.4% to 44.6%. The second highest vote getter is Kari Lake at 1,004,837 votes, and she is losing to Katie Hobbs, with Lake having 49.3% of the vote and Hobbs having 50.7% of the vote. (The votes for Mark Finchem for Secretary of State are 950,521 votes and he is losing to the Democrat 52.7% to 47.3%.)

    There are more votes to be counted, but based upon this fragmentary data, which shows Kari Lake about 100,000 votes behind Kimberly Yee, I would say that there were 100,000 more voters who were willing to vote for a generic Republican Candidate, than a Trump Endorsed Candidate for Governor, and over 150,000 votes more than Finchem who was at the Capitol on 1/6/21. If Trump had stayed out of endorsing in Arizona, I predict that Republicans would have won for Senator, Governor, Secretary of State and Attorney General.

    Your votes for the Democrats Katie Hobbs and Finchem’opponent did not help matters.  You can’t blame that on Trump.

    • #94
  5. Hang On 🚫 Banned
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    De Santis isn’t going to run if Trump decides to run. He realizes that it would be a really dumb move. He would be effectively ending his presidential aspirations. He has no desire to be the next Cruz or Rubio. 

    • #95
  6. Gary Robbins 🚫 Banned
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I am looking at the most recent votes from the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office as of 9:32 p.m. on Thursday night. (https://azsos.gov/elections). The leading statewide Republican is Kimberly Yee, whose job as State Treasurer did not merit a Trump Endorsement for her or her primary opponents. She has 1,104,179 votes and is winning 55.4% to 44.6%. The second highest vote getter is Kari Lake at 1,004,837 votes, and she is losing to Katie Hobbs, with Lake having 49.3% of the vote and Hobbs having 50.7% of the vote. (The votes for Mark Finchem for Secretary of State are 950,521 votes and he is losing to the Democrat 52.7% to 47.3%.)

    There are more votes to be counted, but based upon this fragmentary data, which shows Kari Lake about 100,000 votes behind Kimberly Yee, I would say that there were 100,000 more voters who were willing to vote for a generic Republican Candidate, than a Trump Endorsed Candidate for Governor, and over 150,000 votes more than Finchem who was at the Capitol on 1/6/21. If Trump had stayed out of endorsing in Arizona, I predict that Republicans would have won for Senator, Governor, Secretary of State and Attorney General.

    Your votes for the Democrats Katie Hobbs and Finchem did not help matters. You can’t blame that on Trump.

    I am not blaming Trump.  Look, Trump lied when he said that he won and Biden lost in 2020.  Trump betrayed his Oath of Office when he assembled a mob and sent them to sack the Capitol.  I knowingly and deliberately voted against the Trump Endorsed Candidates who ascribed to the Trump Big Lie that Trump won in 2020 election.  The Trump Big Lie is a deliberate attack on Democracy itself.

    Put bluntly, I would rather vote for a Democrat who is wrong on the issues of inflation, crime and the borders, but who respects Democracy itself, than a Republican who is right on the issues of inflation, crime and the borders, but who is seeking to overthrow Democracy itself.  

    As I outlined in my post at https://ricochet.com/1328931/the-house-subpoena-of-donald-trump/, the House Select Committee on the January 6th Attack on the Capitol has put forward convincing evidence that Trump knowingly and deliberately:

    • Purposely and maliciously disseminating false allegations of fraud related to the 2020 presidential election in order to aid your effort to overturn the election and for purposes of soliciting contributions;
    • Attempting to corrupt the Department of Justice, including by soliciting and enlisting Department officials to make false statements and aid your effort to overturn the presidential election;
    • Without any evidentiary basis, illegally pressuring state officials and legislators to change the results of the election in their states;
    • Orchestrating and overseeing an effort to obtain and transmit false electoral certificates to Congress and the National Archives;
    • Despite knowing specifically that it was illegal, corruptly pressuring your own Vice President to unilaterally refuse to count electoral votes during Congress’s joint session on January 6th;
    • Pressuring Members of Congress to object to valid slates of electors from several states;
    • Filing false information, under oath, in federal court;
    • Summoning tens of thousands of supporters to Washington and, knowing they were angry and some were armed, sending them to the Capitol;
    • Sending a social media message to the nation at 2:24 p.m. – while knowing full well that the violent attack on the Capitol was occurring – in which you incited further violence by publicly condemning your Vice President; and,
    • Refusing for hours to disband your rioting supporters by instructing them to leave the Capitol, which you watched the attack unfold on television.

    I believe that Trump intentionally and deliberately did those ten points.  That is far more serious than “mean tweets.”  Trump is a cancer on the body politic.  Those who buy the Trump Big Lie must be defeated at the ballot box.  Trump would not endorse anyone who did not buy into the Trump Big Lie and promoted it relentlessly.  I knowingly and deliberately voted to defeat people endorsed by Trump.  It is better to have a Governor, Senator, Secretary of State and Attorney General who are wrong on the issues of crime, inflation and the borders but who respect the Rule of Law and Democracy itself, than to have someone who I agree with on policies of crime, inflation and the borders, but who advocates against the Rule of Law and Democracy itself.  

    • #96
  7. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    If we don’t want more Bidens, we need to fix the Republican Party.

    • #97
  8. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Put bluntly, I would rather vote for a Democrat who is wrong on the issues of inflation, crime and the borders, but who respects Democracy itself, than a Republican who is right on the issues of inflation, crime and the borders, but who is seeking to overthrow Democracy itself.  

     

    Your comment is filled with your opinions expressed as if they went based on facts but the material you use to establish that fails and this is demonstrated by the absolute failure of the bogus Jan6 Committee.

    America is not constituted as a Democracy but rather as a representative Democratic Republic. If you are going to continue to claim status as a Republican, please try to understand that one of the biggest dangers present in the Democrat Progressive movement is the propagandistic proposition that we live in a Democracy. 

    • #98
  9. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    BDB (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):
    It is neither true nor funny that we elect a “leader to move the American people back to where we should be as a nation.” That’s straight-up Progressivism, even if it does come carrying a cross.

    Since I’m a Constitutionalist in the Russell Kirk sense your characterization of my thoughts as Progressivism is off base. I personally seek a federal executive who abides by the Constitution. The Progressives fail because they try to go well beyond that.

    I cannot characterize your thoughts; only your words, which I quoted.

    OK, my thought would have been more accurately expressed if I had said “leader who understands where we should be as a nation” by which I mean follows the Constitution and does not support a federal government that has legislated and executes unconstitutionally as the Obama and Biden Administrations have done.

    • #99
  10. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Your votes for the Democrats Katie Hobbs and Finchem did not help matters. You can’t blame that on Trump.

    I am not blaming Trump. Look, Trump lied when he said that he won and Biden lost in 2020. Trump betrayed his Oath of Office when he assembled a mob and sent them to sack the Capitol. I knowingly and deliberately voted against the Trump Endorsed Candidates who ascribed to the Trump Big Lie that Trump won in 2020 election. The Trump Big Lie is a deliberate attack on Democracy itself.

    I happen to think  that Trump exaggerated greatly the amount of cheating that went on.  To label that an actual “lie,”  you either have to be a mind reader or have some evidence that he actually knew that the Democrats had not cheated so much, but chose to deceive people.  You have provided neither as far a I know.

    You, being a lawyer, should know better than to use terms like “Lied” without having evidence.  Words and correct language matter.  On top of that, even if he did lie about the amount of cheating, how is that an “Attack on Democracy.”  It just sounds like a cheap over-the-top sound byte that has no basis in reality.  I used to think that only lefties and democrats did that sort of thing.  Every single presidential election lost by democrats in the 21st century has been contested by them with cries of “cheating.”  The same for some lesser offices like the governorship of Georgia.  Do you think that these democrats have been “attacking democracy” for the last 22 years?

     

    • #100
  11. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

     

    Your votes for the Democrats Katie Hobbs and Finchem did not help matters. You can’t blame that on Trump.

    Put bluntly, I would rather vote for a Democrat who is wrong on the issues of inflation, crime and the borders, but who respects Democracy itself, than a Republican who is right on the issues of inflation, crime and the borders, but who is seeking to overthrow Democracy itself.

    Again, I fail to see how Donald Trump sought to “overthrow democracy.”  If he did, he certainly did a poor job of it because the machinery of democracy sailed on as if nothing happened.  The courts denied most of his claims of democrat cheating and Biden was installed on schedule.  Trump may have suggested unconstitutional actions by some of his subordinates, but he neither threatened them nor took action against them when they declined.

    By contrast, look at what Biden has done.  An “actual unconstitutional order” to take away money from average Americans to pay for the previously agreed upon college loans of other Americans.  Not just talk.  More unconstitutional orders mandating vaccinations by private employers – the President has no power to do  that.  Where exactly did Trump enact anything unconstitutional?

    • #101
  12. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    I happen to think that Trump exaggerated greatly the amount of cheating that went on. To label that an actual “lie,” you either have to be a mind reader or have some evidence that he actually knew that the Democrats had not cheated so much, but chose to deceive people. You have provided neither as far a I know.

    You, being a lawyer, should know better than to use terms like “Lied” without having evidence. Words and correct language matter.

    . . .

    Again, I fail to see how Donald Trump sought to “overthrow democracy.”

    He’s just delivering Democrat talking points. Buzzwords. Propaganda. They don’t have to be true. They just have to be omnipresent. 

    • #102
  13. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Your votes for the Democrats Katie Hobbs and Finchem did not help matters. You can’t blame that on Trump.

    As I outlined in my post at https://ricochet.com/1328931/the-house-subpoena-of-donald-trump/, the House Select Committee on the January 6th Attack on the Capitol has put forward convincing evidence that Trump knowingly and deliberately:

    • Purposely and maliciously disseminating false allegations of fraud related to the 2020 presidential election in order to aid your effort to overturn the election and for purposes of soliciting contributions;
    • Attempting to corrupt the Department of Justice, including by soliciting and enlisting Department officials to make false statements and aid your effort to overturn the presidential election;
    • Without any evidentiary basis, illegally pressuring state officials and legislators to change the results of the election in their states;
    • Orchestrating and overseeing an effort to obtain and transmit false electoral certificates to Congress and the National Archives;
    • Despite knowing specifically that it was illegal, corruptly pressuring your own Vice President to unilaterally refuse to count electoral votes during Congress’s joint session on January 6th;
    • Pressuring Members of Congress to object to valid slates of electors from several states;
    • Filing false information, under oath, in federal court;
    • Summoning tens of thousands of supporters to Washington and, knowing they were angry and some were armed, sending them to the Capitol;
    • Sending a social media message to the nation at 2:24 p.m. – while knowing full well that the violent attack on the Capitol was occurring – in which you incited further violence by publicly condemning your Vice President; and,
    • Refusing for hours to disband your rioting supporters by instructing them to leave the Capitol, which you watched the attack unfold on television.

    I believe that Trump intentionally and deliberately did those ten points. That is far more serious than “mean tweets.”

    I find nine of your points to be unpersuasive, as they rely on “pressuring people” or “sending messages” or in your last point – of doing nothing at all.  The only one that sounds even vaguely like an illegal act is “Filing false information, under oath, in federal court.”  I have not heard that he did that, but I am absolutely positive that if he did, it would have been splashed over every news outlet in the U.S. and most of the world, and he would have been prosecuted for it.  When Mara Lago was raided, I don’t remember the attorney General charging him with filing false information.

    • #103
  14. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    I happen to think that Trump exaggerated greatly the amount of cheating that went on. To label that an actual “lie,” you either have to be a mind reader or have some evidence that he actually knew that the Democrats had not cheated so much, but chose to deceive people. You have provided neither as far a I know.

    You, being a lawyer, should know better than to use terms like “Lied” without having evidence. Words and correct language matter.

    . . .

    Again, I fail to see how Donald Trump sought to “overthrow democracy.”

    He’s just delivering Democrat talking points. Buzzwords. Propaganda. They don’t have to be true. They just have to be omnipresent.

    I know, but I feel obligated to expose the charade nonetheless, even if everybody is already aware of his leftist talking points.

    • #104
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