It’s Time for a Family Conversation, GOP

 

Dear fellow Republicans – especially those of you who remain loyal and ardently supportive of former President Donald Trump. We need to have a serious and frank family conversation.

I’m no “never Trumper.” I voted for Trump twice. Reluctantly the first time since I’d strongly supported my friend and former US Senator Rick Santorum’s (R-PA) candidacy for the GOP nomination, followed by US Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL), and then finally a vote in the Pennsylvania GOP primary in 2016 for US Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX). Still, there was no way I was voting to help elect Hillary Clinton. Trump got my vote in 2016, Access Hollywood tape and all.

In 2020, I enthusiastically supported Trump. His mostly stellar conservative record as President, capstoned with three impressive Supreme Court confirmations (thanks in no small part to Mitch McConnell), was enough for me. No wars, low inflation, and a booming economy (until Covid) were icing on the cake.

So I’m not here as a “never Trumper.” If he runs and is our nominee in 2024, I’ll vote for him. But we must discuss that in light of the profoundly disappointing 2020 midterm elections. The GOP may win control of the House and Senate, but that is highly uncertain and far less than GOP officials predicted. A GOP majority of 1 – 219 seats – in the House is possible. Talk about no margin for error.

Trump may be a primary reason behind turning a “red wave” into barely a nod.

The problem appears to be with independent voters, which according to one exit poll, broke +2 percent for Democrats, breaking the historic norms for ordinary midterm elections. In midterm elections over the past decade, independents broke for one party or another between 12 to 18 percent, usually the party not in control of the White House. Not so this year. Why? Not sure. Subsequent polling may tell us, but exit polling and speculation suggest Trump’s late machinations over an impending announcement of his 2024 candidacy and the abortion issue, which ranked second to inflation in voters’ minds. Gen Z voters broke heavily for Democrats.

Hear me out. I acknowledge and respect your reasons for supporting him, starting with the grotesquely unfair manner in which he’s been treated by congressional Democrats, the mainstream media, federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies, and even some fellow Republicans. I get your fascination and focus on the threat of “globalism” and elitist “deep state” dominance and Trump’s threat to it.

But he’s become too toxic. It’s time to cut our losses and move on. Trump, who will turn 80 in 2024 and would only be able to serve one term if elected, cost us House and Senate seats and increasingly looks unelectable. Democrats salivate for him to run again and serve as the GOP nominee. They were relieved when he raised his orange head with taunts of a presidential campaign announcement at rallies in Ohio, Pennsylvania (how did that work out?), and elsewhere just before the election.

Consider the evidence. Let’s start with the election results. Which Republicans romped, which ones lost, and why?

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis was the election season’s big winner with a nearly 20-point romp over former GOP-turned-Democrat former Gov. Charlie Crist. His margin helped the GOP capture four new US House seats and aided Rubio in his landslide over Democratic US Rep. Val Demmings. Just four years ago, DeSantis won a tight and even surprising 30,000-vote win over Andrew Gillum.

DeSantis enjoyed no support from Trump this election. Shortly before the election, Trump attacked DeSantis at one of his rallies, calling him “Ron DeSanctimonious.” It didn’t seem to hurt, did it?

And then there’s New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, who also ran without Trump’s support or blessing. He won by 17 points. The Granite State’s congressional candidates all ran as pro-Trump Republicans, including the estimable General Don Bolduc for US Senate. Nearly 20 percent of Sununu’s vote went to Democratic incumbent Maggie Hassan. The two GOP House candidates, including a former Trump White House staffer, also lost decisively.

Democrats spent millions in the GOP primary to promote Bolduc’s candidacy over former St. Sen. President Chuck Morse. It worked. Could Morse have defeated Hassan? We’ll never know, but he was more aligned with Sununu than Trump or Bolduc.

Overall, Democrats spent an estimated $46 million in GOP primaries to promote the most pro-Trump candidates, including Darren Bailey for Governor of Illinois (he lost), Bolduc, and several House candidates, many of whom in competitive races lost, especially the Trump-endorsed John Gibbs in Michigan’s previously GOP-held Third Congressional district. Gibbs defeated incumbent Rep. Peter Meijer in the GOP primary, then lost the general election by 13 points.

Georgia’s incumbent Governor, Brian Kemp, also cruised to reelection over his 2018 opponent, election denier Stacey Abrams. In May, Trump endorsed his primary opponent, former US Senator David Perdue (defeated in the 2020 Georgia Senate runoff). Kemp demolished Perdue with 71% of the GOP primary vote. On the other hand, Trump-endorsed US Senate nominee Herschel Walker ran at least five points behind Kemp and now is headed to a December runoff that may decide which party controls the US Senate.

Last is incumbent Governor Mike DeWine’s 25-point romp to reelection in the Buckeye State. While Trump’s late endorsement in Ohio’s US Senate primary catapulted author (Hillbilly Elegy) JD Vance to the nomination, he won his election by just 7 points. Three GOP candidates for state Supreme Court seats fared better, all with double-digit victories. Former Marine and Yale Law-educated Vance kept his distance from Trump in the general election. JD Vance is now Senator-elect.

Vance may owe his nomination to Trump, but that endorsement was a burden. His margin of victory mirrored Trump’s Ohio win two years ago.

Arizona remains a mystery, given the vagueries of its bizarre election counting system. Both gubernatorial nominee Kari Lake and Senate nominee Blake Masters – endorsed by Trump and embracing him in return – are trailing at this stage. Democratic nominee and Secretary of State Katie Hobbs was singularly the worst candidate of the 2022 election. And she may win.

In Pennsylvania, Trump’s endorsement of New Jersey transplant and celebrity doctor Mehmet Oz propelled him to a narrow GOP primary election win. His late endorsement of GOP gubernatorial candidate Doug Mastriano helped seal his primary win. How did those candidates fare? I think you know. Trump now reportedly blames his wife for his endorsement of Oz. Wow. Don’t try that at home.

Want more evidence? How about a poll conducted in a “red” part of Florida (what part isn’t red anymore?) by a pollster and their client, whose names I will protect.

QUESTION  *. WOULD YOU BE MORE OR LESS LIKELY TO VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE WHO IS A DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER? 

                       1.    Much More          24%

                       2.    Somewhat more    9%   

                       3.    Somewhat less      4%

                       4.    Much less             43% 

                       5.    No difference       15%

                      6.   Not sure                 6%

It doesn’t take a math genius to realize that there is a 14-point difference between those somewhat or more likely to support Trump candidates (33%) and those less inclined (47%). And pay attention to the intensity – 43% are “much less” likely. That is yuge, as Trump might say.

I know what some of you are saying. “The GOP can’t win without us,” extol fervent Trump supporters, citing polls showing him as the clear favorite for the GOP presidential nomination in 2024. For now. But midterm election polls and results also show that more voters are lost than gained by Trump’s embrace.

I also know the popular MAGA argument for Trump, as shared in this interesting American Thinker post by J.B. Shurk.

There are videos making the rounds showing President Trump standing on stage in Miami’s pouring rain while imploring Americans to get out and vote.  The metaphor is striking.  There’s Trump, battling the elements, lively as ever, refusing to give up, insisting on finishing what he’s started.  Citizen Free Press appropriately notes that “President Trump is truly a force of nature.”

I know that the months ahead will make for some spirited political debate among friends, but I encourage you to cement in your minds this quintessential image of Trump unbroken and unbowed.  Whatever else can be said about the man (and there is plenty), he remains the only leader in our times unafraid to stand alone.  When other self-proclaimed allies run the other way or look for somewhere safe to weather the approaching storm, Trump stands inside the tempest, demanding that it give up and surrender.  That’s something that will forever separate him from those who pretend to be him.

It has become normal to deconstruct Trump’s public appeal to something as basic as he fights!  Yet it is not just that Trump fights; it is why he fights that has attracted such a diverse voting coalition unlike any other political movement today.

I get all that. Ardent Trumpers also cite support for DeSantis from alleged “globalists,” including major GOP financiers like Ken Griffin. Funny, DeSantis hasn’t behaved like one. And DeSantis, for his part, has never criticized Donald Trump. Some thanks he gets, being called “Ron DeSanctimonious.” Trump’s name-calling schtick is getting a bit old and lame.

The problem is this: Unfairly or not, Trump is toxic. Charles C.W. Cooke, editor of the National Review opines:

I’m not being cute: Trump is the Republican establishment now. He’s the default, the Man, the swamp. It is Trump who is widely considered the front-runner for the party’s nomination in 2024. It is Trump whose endorsements are treated as if they were official edicts. It is Trump to whom the press and the public tend to link all GOP nominees. And, judging by the squeals that emanated from his allies yesterday, Trump’s machine intends to do everything it can to keep it that way, and to thus ensure that he wins the next primary election and loses the next presidential election. With the country in its present state, Republicans simply cannot afford that sort of frivolous, low-energy, old-boys-club complacency. GOPe, you’re on notice.

A few days ago, Trump started criticizing Ron DeSantis. A day or two later, Trump started threatening DeSantis. “I think if he runs,” Trump said, “he could hurt himself very badly. I really believe he could hurt himself badly. I don’t think it would be good for the party.” Upping the ante, Trump then pretended that he knew “things” about DeSantis “that won’t be very flattering,” and promised to reveal them if DeSantis even considered challenging him in 2024.

This is classic establishment gate-keeping. It is also richly undeserved. Trump is a loser. He squeaked past the most unpopular woman in America in 2016, he presided over a blue wave in 2018, he lost to a barely breathing Joe Biden in 2020, and he hand-picked a bevy of losing Republican nominees in 2022. Ron DeSantis is a winner. He beat the Democratic wave in 2018, he got the biggest challenge of the last four years — the Covid-19 pandemic — almost exactly right, and he won reelection by the largest margin achieved by any Republican gubernatorial nominee in Florida’s 177-year-history. Perhaps, on the internet, “loser lambasts winner” is an interesting story. In the real world, it is not.

And conservative Twitter might have already moved on.

Voters also are not interested in relitigating the 2020 election or putting up with so-called “election deniers,” even though Trump has strong cases that election irregularities and even fraud played a significant role. The scourge of “vote by mail” fueled by Democrats during the pandemic is a curse on our election system and invites corruption and distrust in the integrity of our elections. But that ship has sailed. The need here is not airing grievances but fixing laws at the state level.

This is no endorsement of DeSantis, someone I’ve never met. There will be several strong candidates in the race, especially if Trump bows out to play “senior statesman.” I won’t name them – you know. And while Trump may still have the pole position as we advance, we need to be blunt. Our country needs a strong leader after the Biden-Harris debacle, but Trump is the likely major GOP candidate least likely to recapture the presidency and course-correct the nation. And we cannot afford another Democratic presidency.

The Democrats’ best hope to retain power is a Trump nomination in 2024. He helped deliver them a mild midterm election.

Let’s not give it to them. This is not being “never Trump.” It is being “over Trump.”

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  1. EJHill+ Staff
    EJHill+
    @EJHill

    I am of the opinion that one cannot find the right answers if one is not asking the right questions. While the exit survey question is not illegitimate, a preformed multiple-choice question will give you a preformed multiple-choice answer. A truly helpful postmortem of this election should be made but the answers must be open ended, not multiple choice.

    And this is a two-pronged problem. Having this conversation only within the family is not going to cut it. It must be done among the wider spectrum of unaffiliated voters. 

    It seems we are becoming a balkanized society. The Republicans are having their own Hillary Clinton moment. It seems that the GOP will get approximately 6M more Congressional votes nationwide. Where they won, they won big. A lot of places they lost they lost narrowly.

     

    • #31
  2. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Kelly D Johnston: Dear fellow Republicans – especially those of you who remain loyal and ardently supportive of former President Donald Trump.

    I really have to ask this question. Why does every Democrat politician, newsman and pundit have to say “former President Trump”? I saw here on Ricochet a youtube video of a rally hosting both President Biden and President 0bama, and it didn’t refer to “former” President 0bama. No one ever referred to President Bush as “former” President Bush.

    I’m curmudgeonly and think we only have one President so it should be Mr. Trump, Mr. Obama, and Mr. Bush or they’re all former President. Same with Speaker Gingrich. Nope, there’s only Speaker Pelosi. The honorific stays with the office.

    That’s an interesting quirk who noticed. The Left really does manipulate the discourse by controlling the language. Using former only with Trump plants that seed that he’s the past and has no future. Sure the others aren’t a threat to run, but they’re respectable and so given respect.

    • #32
  3. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    EJHill+ (View Comment):

    The Republicans are having their own Hillary Clinton moment.

    Staggering drunk in the woods?

    • #33
  4. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    MDHahn (View Comment):
    Complain about it all you want, but it makes no sense to continue to follow Trump and his endorsements when guys like DeSantis and Kemp proved they can win and expand their reach. Surely those two aren’t rino squishes.

    The problem Kelly and evidently you don’t understand is that Trump turns out people that other Republicans don’t.

    This may be true, but at the same time, Trump turns away more people who would have otherwise voted Republican.

    true – esp. women voters who usually vote GOP

    Also he energizes the Dems / Corporate media

    • #34
  5. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    MDHahn (View Comment):
    Complain about it all you want, but it makes no sense to continue to follow Trump and his endorsements when guys like DeSantis and Kemp proved they can win and expand their reach. Surely those two aren’t rino squishes.

    The problem Kelly and evidently you don’t understand is that Trump turns out people that other Republicans don’t.

    This may be true, but at the same time, Trump turns away more people who would have otherwise voted Republican.

    [Citation needed.]

    I mean, can you cite anyone who, in these midterms, said “Well, I wanted to vote for the Republican, but . . . you know . . . Trump.

    Someone who has reasoning beyond the level of a child, I mean.

    What we’re seeing here is Republicans desperately searching for a scapegoat for their own failures.

    This has nothing to do with the 2022 mid-terms.  Trump turned off a lot of Republican voters in 2015 when he first ran for president, and it continues to this day.  You may not agree with their reasons but you cannot discount that it happened.  Trump is not a traditional conservative (if you even want to call him conservative).  He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    • #35
  6. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    • #36
  7. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    • #37
  8. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    He asked us to cheat on our wives?

    • #38
  9. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    All of this pontificating on thrusting DeSantis onto the national stage when he has a full term of governorship feels so much like putting the cart before the horse.

    If all of you are wrong about DeSantis running in 2024, WHO ELSE IS THERE.

    Because throwing another limp noodle like Romney is a loser.

    What you don’t get is that there isn’t a DeSantis replacement, either.

    What is wrong with Ted Cruz or Rand Paul?

    For fl governor.

    • #39
  10. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    This is hyperbolic and says nothing. The protectionism is the only thing that holds merit, but the demographic being sited that we “need” to attract lacks the brains and emotional control to think beyond self-promotion and social influence.

    You want the single women so bad? Exactly HOW do you propose you get it with ANY integrity?

    • #40
  11. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    To me it suggests there’s a huge class divide in the new GOP. Trump brought in the working class, blue-collar types, and the country club Republicans are unhappy about it. Not our kind, dear.

    • #41
  12. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    He asked us to cheat on our wives?

    No, but it was the example that he set.

    • #42
  13. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    He asked us to cheat on our wives?

    No, but it was the example that he set.

    You can do better than that. You said he was asking “a lot of conservatives” to “change their political views.” How? Stina’s right that trade protectionism might be an example, but the rest is questionable or . . . just ridiculous.

    Furthermore, incidents in a man’s past should not necessarily be held against him if he has changed. Did he cheat on Melania while he was President? Bill Clinton did that, . . . in the oval office. But if Trump is faithful to his current wife, then you’re just denying the man any kind of redemption.

    • #43
  14. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    This is hyperbolic and says nothing. The protectionism is the only thing that holds merit, but the demographic being sited that we “need” to attract lacks the brains and emotional control to think beyond self-promotion and social influence.

    I was going to respond to this part, but I can’t quite understand what you’re saying.

    You want the single women so bad? Exactly HOW do you propose you get it with ANY integrity?

    Republicans are probably never going to get the majority vote from single women.  It is in their natures to cling to a nanny/welfare state.  You just have to go with your principles and attract what people you can.

    • #44
  15. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    You just have to go with your principles and attract what people you can.

    What are the GOP’s principles right now? Hard to tell since they refuse to offer any sort of agenda. And that is why they failed. Not “because Trump!”

    • #45
  16. The Cynthonian Inactive
    The Cynthonian
    @TheCynthonian

    No Caesar (View Comment):

    I have long said that I do not want Trump in 2024, I want him to tease and then not run. If he ran and won the primary I would definitely vote for him. But I think he is more likely to lose than win in a general election. After Tuesday night, that certainty is well north of 50%. I voted reluctantly for him in 2016, and happily in 2020. But Trump World is over.

    I am remain very pro-DeSantis, but open to others. Also, I am convinced that we need a “squish” in the VP seat. Nikki Haley was up here in NH stumping for Sununu and Buldoc and continues to be a top prospect for Veep in my estimation. Sununu romped to victory, because he was seen as like Brian Kemp in GA, although in governing he’s as conservative as you can be in the new NH. But Buldoc lost because he was successfully tagged as a Trump acolyte and was too late in trying to broaden that image.

    Tuesday’s debacle adds to that. In piecing together data I’ve seen in various places it it clear that “Election Denier” = “Trump” = “Crazy/Unstable” in a key part of the electorate. There are two data points that combine to point to Trump’s Achilles heel. First, 37% of single women broke Dem. All other demographics – Married Men, Married Women, single men — all broke Republican to lesser, but strong degrees. Secondly, Gen Z broke heavily Dem, and they showed up this time.

    The Democrats’ analysts targeted their savior demographic and played them like violins. Young Millenial/Early Gen Z females loath Trump by wide margins. The fact is that he triggers the “yuck” factor for them. They also think killing babies and mutilating genitals should be protected, perhaps even promoted. The former ain’t gonna change (Trump=yuck), the latter will over time. This is not about fairness, or justice, or revenge, or January 6. This about winning 2024, then 2026, then 2028, and so on. That is the only way Trump will ever see vindication, from the sidelines as an Andrew Jackson to DeSantis’ (or similar) Polk.

    Trump is the past. We need to look to the future. He did a great thing disrupting DC and revealing the rot. But he’s not going to fix it. It will not be fixed by big showy set-piece show-downs. It will be fixed by personnel. Quiet, brutal, slogs through the bureaucracy. Lots of subtle lawfare and bureaucratic knife-fighting, subterfuge and fake smiles.

    <Snipped for post length>

    Great analysis, NC, and I generally agree with you.  But why do you think we need a squishy VP nominee?  Please elaborate.

    • #46
  17. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Stina (View Comment):
    You want the single women so bad? Exactly HOW do you propose you get it with ANY integrity?

    Always an issue…

    • #47
  18. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    He asked us to cheat on our wives?

    No, but it was the example that he set.

    You can do better than that. You said he was asking “a lot of conservatives” to “change their political views.” How?

    Presidents have been expected to set good examples with their personal behavior since time immemorial.  That is not a controversial idea.

    Stina’s right that trade protectionism might be an example, but the rest is questionable or . . . just ridiculous.

    Those other things are not at all ridiculous.  Trump declared in the very first presidential primary debate “As far as single payer, it works in Canada. It works incredibly well in Scotland.”  I was in the audience and couldn’t believe what I just heard.

    I don’t have this quote handy, but Trump said during the campaign that the Federal Gubmint should be able to spend as much money as it wants because interest rates are so low.  His term bore that out.

    He’s the first President to go into office as being on record supporting gay marriage.  I am not 100% sure of this, but he never raised a stink about men in women’s bathrooms or any of the perverted transgender stuff.

    And although it has been exponentially exaggerated by the press, he did lie on occasion.  He most certainly grossly exaggerated nearly every time he spoke.

    • #48
  19. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    MDHahn (View Comment):
    Complain about it all you want, but it makes no sense to continue to follow Trump and his endorsements when guys like DeSantis and Kemp proved they can win and expand their reach. Surely those two aren’t rino squishes.

    The problem Kelly and evidently you don’t understand is that Trump turns out people that other Republicans don’t.

    This may be true, but at the same time, Trump turns away more people who would have otherwise voted Republican.

    I just don’t think Trump supporters get this very basic truth: there are actually more Democrats in this country than Republicans. And although they think he is great, moderates and independents don’t, and have made that clear in the last three elections. The GOP needs moderates and independents, like it or not. The choice is between Trump and winning elections.

    • #49
  20. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    This is hyperbolic and says nothing. The protectionism is the only thing that holds merit, but the demographic being sited that we “need” to attract lacks the brains and emotional control to think beyond self-promotion and social influence.

    I was going to respond to this part, but I can’t quite understand what you’re saying.

    You want the single women so bad? Exactly HOW do you propose you get it with ANY integrity?

    Republicans are probably never going to get the majority vote from single women. It is in their natures to cling to a nanny/welfare state. You just have to go with your principles and attract what people you can.

    I agree – single women are simply not likely to support conservative principles. They rely on the State.

    • #50
  21. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    This is hyperbolic and says nothing. The protectionism is the only thing that holds merit, but the demographic being sited that we “need” to attract lacks the brains and emotional control to think beyond self-promotion and social influence.

    I was going to respond to this part, but I can’t quite understand what you’re saying.

    You want the single women so bad? Exactly HOW do you propose you get it with ANY integrity?

    Republicans are probably never going to get the majority vote from single women. It is in their natures to cling to a nanny/welfare state. You just have to go with your principles and attract what people you can.

    I’m saying that everyone keeps saying the biggest demo Rs are losing “under Trump” are single women and suburban women.

    You say it in your last line. We cannot help who those women are voting for because their voting is either (A) toxic and to pursue would cost our integrity (full on abortion, nanny state, transgenderism) or (B) status climbing which we can’t satisfy without abandoning a far more legitimate (in terms of policy preference, see A) vote block, which is blue collar.

    With Trump has given gains in every demographic EXCEPT women. The problem isn’t Trump. The problem is that the education system, the media apparatus, the CULTURE has already lost when women are miserable whores or social climbing scolds.

    • #51
  22. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    It’s really funny, but every single one of my female friends voted for Trump. So did our husbands. Not one of us is cheating on our spouses. So that, Seward, is absolute stupidity. Intelligent people don’t mimic politicians in their morality. And there’s no helping stupid when Trump’s morals are nothing more than a reflection of the culture he exists in.

    Your issue isn’t Trump, it is the culture.

    • #52
  23. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Stina (View Comment):
    I’m saying that everyone keeps saying the biggest demo Rs are losing “under Trump” are single women and suburban women.

    Actually it’s only single women now. Surburban women have returned to the GOP fold. For now. But they’re fickle, so we can’t depend on them for the next cycle.

    • #53
  24. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Stina (View Comment):

    With Trump has given gains in every demographic EXCEPT women. The problem isn’t Trump. The problem is that the education system, the media apparatus, the CULTURE has already lost when women are miserable whores or social climbing scolds.

    I don’t think there is any way I’ll ever be able to understand and accept the belief that abortion is a fundamentally proper act for humans, and women in particular. Do women who hold the support for abortion as a right to be exercised without restriction think it would have been perfectly fine if they, themselves, never had seen the light of day?

    • #54
  25. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    With Trump has given gains in every demographic EXCEPT women. The problem isn’t Trump. The problem is that the education system, the media apparatus, the CULTURE has already lost when women are miserable whores or social climbing scolds.

    I don’t think there is any way I’ll ever be able to understand and accept the belief that abortion is a fundamentally proper act for humans, and women in particular. Do women who hold the support for abortion as a right to be exercised without restriction think it would have be perfectly fine if they, themselves, never saw the light of day?

    They have been taught that the thing they need to be of equal value to men is autonomy. But anyone being autonomous is a lie. They think that men being able to walk away from their offspring and the mothers of their offspring means women should be capable of doing so, as well.

    But it was never socially acceptable for men to do those things. Instead of re-enforcing the bonds between mothers, fathers, and children, they decided for social acceptability of abandonment and toxic autonomy.

    • #55
  26. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    This is hyperbolic and says nothing. The protectionism is the only thing that holds merit, but the demographic being sited that we “need” to attract lacks the brains and emotional control to think beyond self-promotion and social influence.

    I was going to respond to this part, but I can’t quite understand what you’re saying.

    You want the single women so bad? Exactly HOW do you propose you get it with ANY integrity?

    Republicans are probably never going to get the majority vote from single women. It is in their natures to cling to a nanny/welfare state. You just have to go with your principles and attract what people you can.

    I’m saying that everyone keeps saying the biggest demo Rs are losing “under Trump” are single women and suburban women.

     

    Seriously, I have never heard anyone say that Republicans are “losing” single women. They never had them to lose in the first place. Yes to the loss of suburban women, though, under Trump. Some gave him the benefit of the doubt in his first election but turned away after that.

    • #56
  27. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    He asked us to cheat on our wives?

    You didn’t know that, Drew? Trump is still paying my alimony! Ha ha!

    • #57
  28. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    This is hyperbolic and says nothing. The protectionism is the only thing that holds merit, but the demographic being sited that we “need” to attract lacks the brains and emotional control to think beyond self-promotion and social influence.

    You want the single women so bad? Exactly HOW do you propose you get it with ANY integrity?

    We could all cheat on our wives and make those single women pregnant, like handmaids. I could write a book about it.

    • #58
  29. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    Seriously, I have never heard anyone say that Republicans are “losing” single women. They never had them to lose in the first place. Yes to the loss of suburban women, though, under Trump. Some gave him the benefit of the doubt in his first election but turned away after that.

    They didn’t.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-suburban-women-swing-toward-backing-republicans-for-congress-11667381402

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/white-suburban-women-shift-support-to-republicans

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2022/11/02/coming-home-white-suburban-women-flocking-back-to-the-gop-in-huge-numbers-n1642074

    Now you can say “But Trump wasn’t on the ticket so they came back!” but then that puts a stake in the complaint that Tuesday’s poor performance by the GOP was Trump’s fault.

    • #59
  30. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    He brought in a specific set of people who were outside of the conservative norm and turned off a lot of conservatives who weren’t willing to change their political views.

    How was he asking this latter group to change?

    By accepting protectionism, socialized medicine, huge deficit spending, gay marriage, men in the women’s bathroom’s, cheating on your wife, lying or at least grossly exaggerating, etc…

    This is hyperbolic and says nothing. The protectionism is the only thing that holds merit, but the demographic being sited that we “need” to attract lacks the brains and emotional control to think beyond self-promotion and social influence.

    I was going to respond to this part, but I can’t quite understand what you’re saying.

    You want the single women so bad? Exactly HOW do you propose you get it with ANY integrity?

    Republicans are probably never going to get the majority vote from single women. It is in their natures to cling to a nanny/welfare state. You just have to go with your principles and attract what people you can.

    I’m saying that everyone keeps saying the biggest demo Rs are losing “under Trump” are single women and suburban women.

     

    Seriously, I have never heard anyone say that Republicans are “losing” single women. They never had them to lose in the first place. Yes to the loss of suburban women, though, under Trump. Some gave him the benefit of the doubt in his first election but turned away after that.

    Read #30 to understand where I’m coming from that the analysis of “It is all Trump’s fault” is the shallowest of takes.

    • #60
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