‘I Didn’t Pull the Trigger’

 

Really? That seems unlikely. I mean, that’s how guns work: it’s amazing how unlikely they are to fire if someone’s finger isn’t on the trigger. So, while it’s possible that Mr. Baldwin didn’t pull the trigger, there is about a zero percent probability that he didn’t pull the trigger.

Of course, he didn’t pull the trigger.

(Interesting note: There is such a thing as a possible event that has a zero probability of occurring. Math is an endless buffet.)

Meanwhile, in Wisconsin, DA John Chisolm didn’t pull the trigger when his soft-on-crime bail policies let serial felon Darrell Edward Brooks Jr. out on $1,000 bail less than a month ago when he assaulted and then drove his vehicle into his girlfriend. His mobility restored, Mr. Brooks then committed mass murder and put another few dozen folks into the hospital when he plowed into a Christmas parade last week in Waukesha. (The SUV, of course, receives top billing, since Mr. Brooks is, by virtue of his hue, not useful as an example of America’s purported White Supremacist problem. For what it’s worth, the SUV wasn’t white either.)

Meanwhile, in the City of Brotherly Love and record-breaking homicide, DA Larry Krasner didn’t pull the trigger when he knocked the bail down from $200,000 to zero and then dropped all charges against (alleged) violent serial criminal Latif Williams. Mr. Williams wasted no time in making good on his inexplicable freedom by (allegedly) murdering Tulane Temple University student Samuel Collington three days ago, while attempting to steal the young man’s SUV and shooting him twice because Mr. Collington was reluctant to surrender the vehicle (which belonged to his mother).

Unlike Kyle Rittenhouse, neither Mr. Brooks nor Mr. Williams is a nerdy little white kid carrying a scary gun. They’re just a couple of guys who can’t stay out of trouble, but who manage to stay out of jail thanks to the generosity of prominent Democratic DAs who are more concerned about being woke than doing their jobs.

2022 is coming.

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  1. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Cosmik Phred (View Comment):
    Temple University not Tulane.

    CP, thank you for the correction. Fixed it.

    • #91
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    I’d like to find out that “Weird Al” Yankovic has done a parody of Billy Joel’s “We Didn’t Start The Fire.”  “I Didn’t Pull The Trigger.”

    • #92
  3. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    There are easily hundreds of comments on gun safety in Hollywood in the first thread on this incident.  I’ll add a link later.  On mobile now.  

    • #93
  4. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    BDB (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    DoubleDare (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    DoubleDare (View Comment):

    … But I’ve read in a few places that it’s possible to partially cock the hammer of a Single Action Army so that when you let it go, expecting it to stay in position, it instead falls back down and fires the pistol.

    But he may be telling the truth about not pulling the trigger.

    I don’t know specifically about this Colt, but I have used revolvers that half cocked. Half cocking, you feel a click half-way through pulling back on the hammer and when you release the hammer it stays half-cocked. If you didn’t pull the hammer back far enough for it to half-cock, or some reason the hammer did not stay securely half-cocked, you would merely let the hammer down.

    If there were a flaw in the half-cock sear, this would be evident on examination.

    Fair enough. But Colt designed the Single Action Army revolver in 1872. If the Italian replica was just a copy of the original, it would be missing about 150 years of firearms safety refinements that we find in modern revolvers. Which is just to say that the way a modern revolver operates may well not be the way that that Italian replica operated.

    Hmmmm. The Italians don’t make an EXACT copy of historical revolvers. The insides the replicas are very different from the origonal as the maker is still subject to getting sued in an incedent if the fault is in the firearm.

    So then, how are they different?

    While my guess is that your initial suspicion is correct (if different, then different mechanism), there could also be a difference in matierials, shapes, tolerances for reliability purposes but which do not produce a different mechanism. Just the same mechaism performing better.

    But I’m just spit-balling.

    Well, there are differences in both mechanisms and tolerances, and presumably hardening and finish and resistance to wear and even chipping.  And this can be known within days of the negligence labeled an “accident”.  So can early “eye witness” accounts and histories.  What we’ve got now is a lot of hearsay.  What I’ve read includes that the guns, presumably under the control of the previous armorer (if the same pistols were used (which doesn’t make sense to me) were used for sport plinking the previous night.  And that Baldwin said, before firing, regarding reshooting the scene yet again, something like: How about if I just shoot the two of you?

    And a personal peeve of mine is how much emphasis is placed on an actorcrying... in front of a camera.  Oh, he must only be genuinely moved beyond the boundaries of self-control to do that.

    • #94
  5. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    BDB (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    “I let go of the hammer. Bang! The gun goes off,” Baldwin said, not believing he could have possibly have shot her.

     

    Yep. Saw a snippet of his friendly interview with George Stephanopolous. He’s adamant about not pulling the trigger. But he freely admits pulling back the hammer and then letting it go. Apparently he is unaware that pulling the trigger causes the hammer to be released? He told Stephanopolous that they were setting up a shot where he was pointing the gun at the camera and cocking it, pulling back the hammer with his thumb. He says he pulled back the hammer and asked the cinematographer “Can you see that?” They tried several times until she was satisfied with how the shot would be composed. Once they were done, Baldwin said “I let go of the hammer. Bang! The gun goes off.” So he still had the weapon pointed at the camera (and cinematographer) when he dropped the hammer. Someone in an earlier post referenced the old saying “Going off half cocked“. Yep. Those old sayings come from real life. And that’s what seems to have happened here. That and the weapon being loaded such that the hammer was on a loaded chamber.

    This “hold the hammer back” nonsense smells like the result of deciding to testify that you didn’t pull the trigger. As if speaking witha lawyer and deciding that pulling a trigger moves you closer to intent, and adjusting the facts to fit. That’s what I think.

    But even taking his ridiculous story at face value, without the discipline to keep your finger AWAY from the trigger, if you’re holding the hammer back with your thumb (ahem), then you are likely to recruit your trigger finger into your grip without meaning to. His would likely have had the trigger back long before he let the hammer down.

    But I don’t believe a word of it anyway. It’s enormously likely that the only mechanical failure here was in Baldwin’s decision-making apparatus, when he decided to pull the trigger on a weapon aimed at a co-worker. Wasn’t even in the script.

    Zackly.

    • #95
  6. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Orion (View Comment):

    DoubleDare (View Comment):

    …Hmmmm. The Italians don’t make an EXACT copy of historical revolvers. The insides the replicas are very different from the original as the maker is still subject to getting sued in an incident if the fault is in the firearm.

    -Some replicas are exact copies of the original 1873 SAA

    -Some replicas are not and have modern safety features

    …To get this gun to actually fire with the hammer down and the trigger untouched requires specific kinds of forces to get the hammer or the firing pin to strike the cartridge primer? I would think that dropping the gun on the hammer might do it, or perhaps dropping the gun in such a way that the firing pin has the momentum to move forward in its channel to strike the primer. But none of these happen by simply lifting the gun from a holster and raising it to the horizontal.

    The article mentions transfer bar and floating firing pin.

    Original Colt SAA’s use a series of notches in the hammer as sear engagements to keep the hammer back when cocked. If these notches are worn or have been filed (to “lighten” the trigger) the gun can accidently discharge by cocking the hammer without pulling the trigger. That’s where the “Hammer down on an empty cylinder” rule came from.

    A transfer bar physically blocks the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. I suppose a transfer bar mechanism could be disabled if it were extremely dirty or damaged but I think it would be highly unlikely.

    Are you saying that this pistol, among other things, had a half-cock position?  Certainly it may have, and I would expect that since it was extent technology at the time of the guns original manufacture.  But there would be no need to ever polish that down.  And it negates the idea that he “cocked” the gun and when he simply let it go of the hammer it went all the way forward and struck the primer.

    It’s funny how the mechanics of the internals of the gun have taken precedence in the news coverage over the negligence of pointing a loaded gun at a person.

    • #96
  7. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Though I’m sure most everyone gets it, the point of the original post wasn’t to re-examine Mr. Baldwin’s accidental shooting (because he pulled the trigger, almost certainly) of that unfortunate woman, but rather to suggest that we have a lot of powerful officials right now whose irresponsible behavior is leading to mayhem, and that we should keep drawing attention to the fact that these people are, in a figurative but very real sense, pulling the trigger.

    • #97
  8. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Henry Racette: (Interesting note: There is such a thing as a possible event that has a zero probability of occurring. Math is an endless buffet.)

    Is that buff ay or buff et?

    • #98
  9. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: (Interesting note: There is such a thing as a possible event that has a zero probability of occurring. Math is an endless buffet.)

    Is that buff ay or buff et?

    Heh. It’s the good kind, the one with all-you-can-eat fried foods and desserts.

    • #99
  10. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal.  But buff ay is more equal.

    • #100
  11. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    • #101
  12. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    • #102
  13. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    • #103
  14. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: (Interesting note: There is such a thing as a possible event that has a zero probability of occurring. Math is an endless buffet.)

    Is that buff ay or buff et?

    Heh. It’s the good kind, the one with all-you-can-eat fried foods and desserts.

    Are you so sure that’s the good kind?

    • #104
  15. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: (Interesting note: There is such a thing as a possible event that has a zero probability of occurring. Math is an endless buffet.)

    Is that buff ay or buff et?

    Depends. Is it a meal consisting of multiple courses, a table or room where such a meal is presented, or a series of repeated, violent blows?

    • #105
  16. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: (Interesting note: There is such a thing as a possible event that has a zero probability of occurring. Math is an endless buffet.)

    Is that buff ay or buff et?

    Heh. It’s the good kind, the one with all-you-can-eat fried foods and desserts.

    Are you so sure that’s the good kind?

    If you are on the receiving end, yes.

    • #106
  17. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: (Interesting note: There is such a thing as a possible event that has a zero probability of occurring. Math is an endless buffet.)

    Is that buff ay or buff et?

    Heh. It’s the good kind, the one with all-you-can-eat fried foods and desserts.

    Are you so sure that’s the good kind?

    If you are on the receiving end, yes.

    Can you feel your arteries hardening while you’re eating?

    • #107
  18. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    • #108
  19. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    That picture’s 25 years old.

    • #109
  20. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    That picture’s 25 years old.

    So you’ve aged into being in Western movies?

    • #110
  21. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    That picture’s 25 years old.

    So you’ve aged into being in Western movies?

    Probably not.

    • #111
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    That picture’s 25 years old.

    You look good.  You look very good.  You look like an android from Blade Runner good.

    • #112
  23. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    That picture’s 25 years old.

    You look good. You look very good. You look like an android from Blade Runner good.

    Even my wife liked me back then.

    • #113
  24. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    That picture’s 25 years old.

    You look good. You look very good. You look like an android from Blade Runner good.

    Guys, get a chat room.

    (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

    • #114
  25. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    That picture’s 25 years old.

    You look good. You look very good. You look like an android from Blade Runner good.

    Guys, get a chat room.

    (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

    You don’t like Blade Runner?

    • #115
  26. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    buff ay or buff et

    Mathematically, they are equal. But buff ay is more equal.

    I’d rather eat what I want than get whacked.

    Then don’t make a movie with Alec Baldwin.

    No one would pay me to make a movie with or without AB.

    You look pretty photogenic in your avatar.

    That picture’s 25 years old.

    You look good. You look very good. You look like an android from Blade Runner good.

    Guys, get a chat room.

    (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

    You don’t like Blade Runner?

    You kidding me? Top ten, for sure. 

    • #116
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The novel The Bladerunner by Alan E Nourse was very good.  The movie(s) which actually come from a different story “Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?” by Philip K. Dick (and “blade running” is never mentioned in that story, but is central to the Nourse book) has never particularly interested me.

    • #117
  28. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The novel The Bladerunner by Alan E Nourse was very good. The movie(s) which actually come from a different story “Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?” by Philip K. Dick (and “blade running” is never mentioned in that story, but is central to the Nourse book) has never particularly interested me.

    I was thinking of the movie based on Dick.

    • #118
  29. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The novel The Bladerunner by Alan E Nourse was very good. The movie(s) which actually come from a different story “Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?” by Philip K. Dick (and “blade running” is never mentioned in that story, but is central to the Nourse book) has never particularly interested me.

    I was thinking of the movie based on Dick.

    Typical.

    • #119
  30. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    BDB (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The novel The Bladerunner by Alan E Nourse was very good. The movie(s) which actually come from a different story “Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?” by Philip K. Dick (and “blade running” is never mentioned in that story, but is central to the Nourse book) has never particularly interested me.

    I was thinking of the movie based on Dick.

    Typical.

    Is there another book or movie that shows androids that are indistinguishable from humans and that look like Rutger Hauer?  Please share.

    • #120
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