Trump Is Done

 

Trump gets full credit for destroying himself and his Presidency. And he finally did it single-handedly. We have all put up with his rudeness, crassness, and inconsistencies, and I was willing to go along.

Until now.

Trump’s protesting the election was understandable. But once he voiced his protests, he should have just done his job and limited his comments; instead, he kept inciting his most passionate followers and everyone else within shouting distance. Yes, I think it’s entirely possible that those who crashed the Capitol were not just his fans, but those who were just waiting for an opportunity to incite violence, just like the riots we saw in several major cities. And Trump gave them the cover to attack.

I hate violence. I hate breaking the law. I hate those who threaten others. And Trump essentially encouraged all of it. Even when he told people to go home today, he had to say just one more time that he was cheated in the election. He should be ashamed.

But he doesn’t have the decency to be ashamed. He’s just angry. Which justifies his insulting his vice president who put up with his abasement of him for years with class, diligence, and allegiance. And Trump thanked him by trying to discredit him.

I can tolerate a great deal from a person when they get things done. But to a great extent, Trump brought much of the hatred towards him on himself. Those who sabotaged him were incited by his disdain for them and his nastiness.

Yes, Trump did many good things during his Presidency. But those accomplishments will be overshadowed by his lack of discipline and lack of respect for those who had tried to serve him well.

He’s done.

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  1. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    cdor (View Comment):

    Today has been a very sad day for many reasons. This post is one of them. Here’s hoping you heal soon, Susan.

    Thanks for your kind remark, @cdor. Actually I’m quite at peace, because I’ve spoken my mind. To @hoyacon, you are sounding a bit like a Trumper–those people who think that we shouldn’t criticize Trump’s behavior. I put up with his nastiness for a long time because I knew he was doing good things, some very good things. But there comes a time when enough is enough. And he crossed the line in the last couple of months.

    • #91
  2. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor
    @OkieSailor

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    I’d like you to know that I get no satisfaction by calling Trump out. I remember how often people said, we need someone like him to clean out the swamp, don’t expect him to change, what you see is what you get. I do think we needed a rabble-rouser to stir things up, and all those who were upset about his going against tradition get no sympathy from me. But I was always baffled by his inability to tone it down at times; to moderate because it would serve his ends. But he didn’t have the capacity to change. Every now and then his compassion would show, and I know it was there. I don’t know if he has completely gone off the rails–I really don’t know–but it’s tragic for him, his family, and even the country.

    I started out a little baffled by his demeanor but decided long ago that he is driven by his insatiable need to dominate the headlines each and every day. That is the only explanation I can see of why he continues to act against his own interests. And from his perspective it works. It will continue to work in those terms. He isn’t going away and the media doesn’t want him to.
    Much good was accomplished during his term; whether because he genuinely wanted those things or not is not discernible and may be irrelevant. Still, I blame him and his lawyers for the two Senate losses in Georgia and that will do more than any other thing to enable the reversal of much of the good accomplished these last four years. Time will tell.

    The Republican party will recover, we may even see an R Congress in two years. Then we are back to Progressive Light IMHO. Is that better than Progressive Heavy? Maybe, maybe not. There is much to do if we are ever to return to the Liberty under the Constitution but I don’t expect much of it to be done, sadly.

     

    • #92
  3. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Quintus Sertorius (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    As I have said elsewhere, I have spent 5 damned years arguing with the reflexive Trump haters that he wasn’t a tinpot dictator, he wasn’t trying to undermine the republic, he wasn’t going to destroy conservatism.

     

    And in the last 2 damned months he has totally undermined it all.

    Screw him.

    Indeed!!

    After all, when it is it better to pile on other than when almost every one else is doing it.

    Considering how a lot of us, for the last 4 years have been regularly accuses of disloyalty, being secret NTers, hacks, and all other manner of things, usually for simply daring to notice even minor problems with Trump, what you’re seeing is a bunch of people who have kept their mouths shut for 4 years to avoid bullying now finally having our own say. This ain’t “piling on”, this is all not taking the crap anymore.

    Indeed. Thanks, @skipsul.

    • #93
  4. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I can’t properly express my opinion of this @susanquinn post while following the CoC, other than to say it is completely wrong.

    I don’t like seeing a mob in the capitol. I suppose Trump should have ordered them shot? I wanted to see the protest march outside, not this rampage. Trump’s only fault was in refusing to kneel in surrender despite credible fraud claims

    I’m looking at the people agreeing with you, and I wonder why I am wasting time here.

     

    No Trump’s fault was that he nursed his wounded ego and kept working at miraculous magical solutions that were not likely to be effective.  He was right to fight the fraud; however, there comes a time when It worked and you have to figure out how you are going to recover and go into the next round.  Trump kept fighting the last war, instead of working to figure out how to win the next one.   Embracing the magical thinking took the Trump supporters to the same place that the democrats went in 2017 the vain hope of a deus ex machina that would deliver them.   

    It is time to start thinking about the next round.   I hope you join in that.   This hurt isn’t going to go away.  It isn’t going to be solved magically.  Biden and Harris will be sworn in, that was pretty much assured once the electors were certified.   It isn’t just but it is reality.  The system is too divided for any other result.   

     

    • #94
  5. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Susan Quinn: Trump gets full credit for destroying himself and his Presidency.

    No, I believe the MSM and Democrat party had more to do with it than Trump himself.

    • #95
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):
    So your position is that fraud likely occured on such an audacious level as to steal a US election, but that we should shrug it off despite the thousands of pieces of evidence we’ve got and let it go in the hope we can inch out a win next time? 

    That is not a fair response, Vince. No one spoke about shoving it off and you know it. There are matters of degree, dontcha know, and protests early on were fine. And then the hysteria made the arguments about fraud appear crazy rather than credible. As  I’ve said a few times, all the protesting got people nowhere. Nothing changed. I will scream at Republicans when this is finally over if they don’t make sure a full and complete investigation of the election is conducted. I will never forgive them for not defending our election process.

    • #96
  7. Viruscop Inactive
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    DonG (Biden is compromised) (View Comment):

    Maybe done for you, but he is not the problem, he is the symptom. The problem is that we have a two-tier system of justice in this country.

    I agree. Black protestors are gassed and beaten senseless while white terrorists get to vandalize the Senate and House while planting bombs around DC.

    • #97
  8. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Quintus Sertorius (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    As I have said elsewhere, I have spent 5 damned years arguing with the reflexive Trump haters that he wasn’t a tinpot dictator, he wasn’t trying to undermine the republic, he wasn’t going to destroy conservatism.

     

    And in the last 2 damned months he has totally undermined it all.

    Screw him.

    Indeed!!

    After all, when it is it better to pile on other than when almost every one else is doing it.

    Considering how a lot of us, for the last 4 years have been regularly accuses of disloyalty, being secret NTers, hacks, and all other manner of things, usually for simply daring to notice even minor problems with Trump, what you’re seeing is a bunch of people who have kept their mouths shut for 4 years to avoid bullying now finally having our own say. This ain’t “piling on”, this is all not taking the crap anymore.

    You’re not getting me to buy into the nouveau, left-ish definition of “bullying.” I read here and I read a lot–perhaps to my discredit. It’s a myth that those who bring substantive, reasonable arguments against Trump are “bullied.” It’s also a myth that the site is replete with “bullies” piling on people making reasonable arguments. If someone has kept their “mouths shut” for four years, and need today’s events for cover, well, it’s nice to hear from you.

     

    Since Trump took office I have been told repeatedly by several members that any criticism of Trump was some variety of:

    • Aiding the enemy
    • indicating I really must have preferred Hillary
    • invalid because Trump was better than any alternative
    • showed a lack of faith
    • impossible because no actual criticism ever encountered was substantive
    • indicating I was a secret “Never”
    • indicating I was an idiot (or traitor)
    • indicating I wasn’t aware of issues
    • invalid because anyone who would make such a criticism was a snowflake

    During my time as a moderator I saw this directed consistently at other members too, to the point where many simply left or stopped engaging in posts at all.  As another currently active moderator noted yesterday – it’s telling that the most active part of the site is the recurrent PIT because it’s the one place where purity tests about Trump or any other issue are moot.  

    Why do you show such disdain for people for refusing to speak up and get drawn into pointless gang attacks by other members?  Why do you show such disdain for people who stopped speaking up after getting threatening PMs from other members?

    • #98
  9. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    She (View Comment):
    I don’t know if Donald Trump is capable of that kind of self-analysis and awareness; I think he’d be infinitely more likable and relatable if he were. (He might be looking forward to his second term as President as well.) And I think that today he’s a sad figure who’s diminishing his legacy, not by talking about election fraud, which is an entirely real and legitimate issue–crimenutely, it’s an issue the Democrats spent four years tub-thumping about and tying Trump’s hands on, with absolutely no basis in fact), but through some of his associations and some of his recent statements which, in addition to being troubling, are not helped by his rambling and unfocused delivery or by his refusal, ever, to admit of fault or error.

    Thanks, She. This about sums it up in my mind. Yes, he may very well be seen as the tragic hero. But not yet.

    • #99
  10. Viruscop Inactive
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    She (View Comment):
    (He might be looking forward to his second term as President as well.) 

    Only if he has neurosyphilis or some other serious neurodegenerative disease. It’s possible.

    • #100
  11. Viruscop Inactive
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    • #101
  12. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    EHerring (View Comment):
    This time, the failure was as much because of the tragic flaws manifested today in our country: a press that is the propaganda arm of the Democrats, a sorry election system that enables fraud and doubt, big tech, corporations that want open borders, an out of control administrative state, corrupt politicians, greedy voters who want the government to be Santa, a secular society, and a cultural war long lost. It might be cute blaming Trump, but all those problems are not new. The people allowed them to fester. 

    I think I see your point, EHerring. All of those entities are complicit for creating these circumstances. But that doesn’t let Trump off the hook. I have often condemned all of them. And when you say “the people” let those entities fester, I wonder what the people would have done to stop them? But that’s another post.

    • #102
  13. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    No because until the post-election break with reality, Trump was largely toothless – bluster and ego, but unwilling to act himself even as he egged on others to act for him, or mocked them if they did act for him but failed.  He had many many other ample opportunities live down to your expectations, but did not do so.

    • #103
  14. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    No.  Just that he was a flawed human being that let his flaws get the better of him.  He was still a far better president than Hilary Clinton would have been and  he would have been a better president that Biden will be.  If he had played his cards right in the last two months he would have been a front runner for 2024.  As it is I doubt that happens now.   

    • #104
  15. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    I’ll tip my hand. I believe that it’s real and the source of much of the loyalty he engenders in many people. There is a significant segment of the country that is incredibly tired of the America-bashing from the left. While I understand that certain of Trump’s “values” are open to question, he has at least one redeeming one, and it’s one that’s really needed.

    I’ve never doubted his patriotism. But the real question is, how long are we willing to forgive him because he loves his country? 

    • #105
  16. Viruscop Inactive
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    No. Just that he was a flawed human being that let his flaws get the better of him. He was still a far better president than Hilary Clinton would have been and he would have been a better president that Biden will be. If he had played his cards right in the last two months he would have been a front runner for 2024. As it is I doubt that happens now.

    Hillary Clinton would have handled Covid better than Trump and she would not have attempted a coup on the day that Nikki Haley was officially designated the next president.

    That alone would have made her a better president than Trump.

    • #106
  17. Viruscop Inactive
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    No because until the post-election break with reality, Trump was largely toothless – bluster and ego, but unwilling to act himself even as he egged on others to act for him, or mocked them if they did act for him but failed. He had many many other ample opportunities live down to your expectations, but did not do so.

    And yet in the end, he went lower than I imagined he would ever go.

    • #107
  18. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    No Trump’s fault was that he nursed his wounded ego and kept working at miraculous magical solutions that were not likely to be effective. He was right to fight the fraud; however, there comes a time when It worked and you have to figure out how you are going to recover and go into the next round. Trump kept fighting the last war, instead of working to figure out how to win the next one. Embracing the magical thinking took the Trump supporters to the same place that the democrats went in 2017 the vain hope of a deus ex machina that would deliver them.

    Very insightful, Raxxalan. Thanks.

    • #108
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Stad (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: Trump gets full credit for destroying himself and his Presidency.

    No, I believe the MSM and Democrat party had more to do with it than Trump himself.

    Not in the final analysis. The last two months are on him, I believe.

    • #109
  20. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    No because until the post-election break with reality, Trump was largely toothless – bluster and ego, but unwilling to act himself even as he egged on others to act for him, or mocked them if they did act for him but failed. He had many many other ample opportunities live down to your expectations, but did not do so.

    And yet in the end, he went lower than I imagined he would ever go.

    Bit of an overstatement there?  It’s not like he’s tried to stage a military coup and send all his opponents to FEMA camps – a common fever dream on your side.

    • #110
  21. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    No. Just that he was a flawed human being that let his flaws get the better of him. He was still a far better president than Hilary Clinton would have been and he would have been a better president that Biden will be. If he had played his cards right in the last two months he would have been a front runner for 2024. As it is I doubt that happens now.

    Hillary Clinton would have handled Covid better than Trump and she would not have attempted a coup on the day that Nikki Haley was officially designated the next president.

    That alone would have made her a better president than Trump.

    I doubt she would have handled Covid better than Trump.  The CDC would have covered up the botched rounds of testing and the FDA would still be trying to perform a rectal cranium inversion instead of having 2 approved vaccines.   The country would have locked down forever and we would be in the midst of a Great Depression instead of a v shaped recovery.    

    I am sure she would have used the IRS and the FBI to hound her political opponents would have isolated Israel and empowered Iran and enriched herself with corrupt dealings with China.  The economy would have tanked and we would have gotten 3 radical leftist Supreme Court justices who would have eviscerated the Constitution and paved the way for a civil war.     

    • #111
  22. Viruscop Inactive
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    No because until the post-election break with reality, Trump was largely toothless – bluster and ego, but unwilling to act himself even as he egged on others to act for him, or mocked them if they did act for him but failed. He had many many other ample opportunities live down to your expectations, but did not do so.

    And yet in the end, he went lower than I imagined he would ever go.

    Bit of an overstatement there? It’s not like he’s tried to stage a military coup and send all his opponents to FEMA camps – a common fever dream on your side.

    I don’t recall ever hearing about the FEMA camps. He did try to stage a much stupider coup yesterday that doesn’t rise the level of sophistication of a military coup, but why should he get credit for being stupid? His intent was clear, just as it was clear when his campaign met with Russian agents in Trump Tower.

    • #112
  23. Viruscop Inactive
    Viruscop
    @Viruscop

    Susan, I remember a while back you had a post called “Trump Broke Ricochet,” or something like that. This was during the 2016 campaign. You were completely right. 

    Another institution that Trump has ruined.

    • #113
  24. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Viruscop (View Comment):

    Do you admit that the left was right about Trump all along?

    No because until the post-election break with reality, Trump was largely toothless – bluster and ego, but unwilling to act himself even as he egged on others to act for him, or mocked them if they did act for him but failed. He had many many other ample opportunities live down to your expectations, but did not do so.

    And yet in the end, he went lower than I imagined he would ever go.

    Bit of an overstatement there? It’s not like he’s tried to stage a military coup and send all his opponents to FEMA camps – a common fever dream on your side.

    I don’t recall ever hearing about the FEMA camps. He did try to stage a much stupider coup yesterday that doesn’t rise the level of sophistication of a military coup, but why should he get credit for being stupid? His intent was clear, just as it was clear when his campaign met with Russian agents in Trump Tower.

    I cannot call it a coup attempt, but I won’t argue the stupidity of it.

    • #114
  25. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Quintus Sertorius (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    As I have said elsewhere, I have spent 5 damned years arguing with the reflexive Trump haters that he wasn’t a tinpot dictator, he wasn’t trying to undermine the republic, he wasn’t going to destroy conservatism.

     

    And in the last 2 damned months he has totally undermined it all.

    Screw him.

    Indeed!!

    After all, when it is it better to pile on other than when almost every one else is doing it.

    Considering how a lot of us, for the last 4 years have been regularly accuses of disloyalty, being secret NTers, hacks, and all other manner of things, usually for simply daring to notice even minor problems with Trump, what you’re seeing is a bunch of people who have kept their mouths shut for 4 years to avoid bullying now finally having our own say. This ain’t “piling on”, this is all not taking the crap anymore.

    You’re not getting me to buy into the nouveau, left-ish definition of “bullying.” I read here and I read a lot–perhaps to my discredit. It’s a myth that those who bring substantive, reasonable arguments against Trump are “bullied.” It’s also a myth that the site is replete with “bullies” piling on people making reasonable arguments. If someone has kept their “mouths shut” for four years, and need today’s events for cover, well, it’s nice to hear from you.

     

    Since Trump took office I have been told repeatedly by several members that any criticism of Trump was some variety of:

    • Aiding the enemy
    • indicating I really must have preferred Hillary
    • invalid because Trump was better than any alternative
    • showed a lack of faith
    • impossible because no actual criticism ever encountered was substantive
    • indicating I was a secret “Never”
    • indicating I was an idiot (or traitor)
    • indicating I wasn’t aware of issues
    • invalid because anyone who would make such a criticism was a snowflake

    During my time as a moderator I saw this directed consistently at other members too, to the point where many simply left or stopped engaging in posts at all. As another currently active moderator noted yesterday – it’s telling that the most active part of the site is the recurrent PIT because it’s the one place where purity tests about Trump or any other issue are moot.

    Why do you show such disdain for people for refusing to speak up and get drawn into pointless gang attacks by other members? Why do you show such disdain for people who stopped speaking up after getting threatening PMs from other members?

    Skip, you are so right on here. For the most part I stopped coming to Ricochet on a regular basis, partly because I’ve been busy, but mostly because it’s not worth trying to have any conversation with people who are determined to see “disloyalty” to Trump as a mortal sin.

    • #115
  26. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Theodoric of Freiberg (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Poindexter (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Poindexter (View Comment):

    Agreed. I was never a Trump fan, but I’m glad of the good things that happened on his watch; judges etc.

    He has foolishly made it impossible for me to defend those things.

    What he did was for the most part good. How he expressed himself was problematic.

    I’ve worked for guys who made Trump look like Miss Manners. They were effective too. I’ve worked for guys who I’m sure got straight As in comportment who were otherwise wastes of skin. He was better than the alternative. The whole country is going to find out that he still was better than the alternative. They are going to learn that the hard way, unfortunately.+

    Maybe, but we could have done better.

    Cruz, maybe. But as I recall, the majority of the Never Trump people started out as Never Cruz.

    I was a Cruz supporter, but after his nonsense this past week, I will never support him again.

    Cruz needs to harness the Trump supporters if he is going to win. This is how politics works.

    • #116
  27. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Viruscop (View Comment):
    I don’t recall ever hearing about the FEMA camps. He did try to stage a much stupider coup yesterday that doesn’t rise the level of sophistication of a military coup, but why should he get credit for being stupid? His intent

    We aren’t dead yet. Your post is going through from what I’ve observed.

     

    • #117
  28. Jack Mantle Member
    Jack Mantle
    @JackMantle

    Couldn’t disagree more.  He “incited his followers?”  Yes.  He’s the President of an administration that had the intelligence services, the DOJ and sitting members of Congress weaponized against his lawful administration.  I would be disappointed if he didn’t go down swinging against the way this election was conducted.  I have never seen or heard him say anything in the slightest to encourage anyone to destroy federal property.  He sent in the National Guard to stop the violence.  I suspect that the violence was perpetrated by Antifa infiltrators. 

    I’ll believe that there was no involvement by Antiffa and BLM when I hear CNN report the disturbances at the Capitol as “mostly peaceful.”

    And he should be ashamed for saying once again that all of us were cheated?  I seem to recall Galileo saying, “But it does move.”  Galileo should be ashamed?

    I am so proud of our President.

    • #118
  29. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    EHerring (View Comment):

    Before I jump in, I will remind myself that the Democrats have been worse than Trump these last four years, four year coup, false accusations, silly impeachment, inciting and rewarding violent mobs, corruption, lying, censorship, and verbal attacks. They nominated and elected some of the most vile people the could, Biden , Harris,Omar, AOC, Warnock, et al. Every manner of peaceful protests against electioneering has been ignored by those in power, the courts, and politicians. When the country falls apart, it won’t be because of Trump.

    Bravo.  Most apt comment on the topic yet.

    • #119
  30. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    I really do appreciate the vast differences that are expressed on this post, and that they are being made (mostly) respectfully. Truly. And the complexity of the ideas shared is helping me examine my own views as well as those who disagree with me. These are the kinds of discussions we need to have. These are the ways, with the wealth of ideas, that will move us forward in hopefully creative and productive ways.

    • #120
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