Trump Is Done

 

Trump gets full credit for destroying himself and his Presidency. And he finally did it single-handedly. We have all put up with his rudeness, crassness, and inconsistencies, and I was willing to go along.

Until now.

Trump’s protesting the election was understandable. But once he voiced his protests, he should have just done his job and limited his comments; instead, he kept inciting his most passionate followers and everyone else within shouting distance. Yes, I think it’s entirely possible that those who crashed the Capitol were not just his fans, but those who were just waiting for an opportunity to incite violence, just like the riots we saw in several major cities. And Trump gave them the cover to attack.

I hate violence. I hate breaking the law. I hate those who threaten others. And Trump essentially encouraged all of it. Even when he told people to go home today, he had to say just one more time that he was cheated in the election. He should be ashamed.

But he doesn’t have the decency to be ashamed. He’s just angry. Which justifies his insulting his vice president who put up with his abasement of him for years with class, diligence, and allegiance. And Trump thanked him by trying to discredit him.

I can tolerate a great deal from a person when they get things done. But to a great extent, Trump brought much of the hatred towards him on himself. Those who sabotaged him were incited by his disdain for them and his nastiness.

Yes, Trump did many good things during his Presidency. But those accomplishments will be overshadowed by his lack of discipline and lack of respect for those who had tried to serve him well.

He’s done.

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Percival (View Comment):

    Poindexter (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Poindexter (View Comment):

    Agreed. I was never a Trump fan, but I’m glad of the good things that happened on his watch; judges etc.

    He has foolishly made it impossible for me to defend those things.

    What he did was for the most part good. How he expressed himself was problematic.

    I’ve worked for guys who made Trump look like Miss Manners. They were effective too. I’ve worked for guys who I’m sure got straight As in comportment who were otherwise wastes of skin. He was better than the alternative. The whole country is going to find out that he still was better than the alternative. They are going to learn that the hard way, unfortunately.+

    Maybe, but we could have done better.

    Cruz, maybe. But as I recall, the majority of the Never Trump people started out as Never Cruz.

    Cruz has come a long way in the last 4 years, arguably because of Trump allowing some Republicans who never had gumption before to develop some.  And while it’s true that I voted for Cruz in the 2016 primaries I think he would have lost to Hillary if he had been the nominee.  He’s pretty different now, I think.

    • #61
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Dennis A. Garcia (formerly Gai… (View Comment):

    Thank you Susan. I’ve expressed a lack of hope tonight that we can resolve our differences peacefully. Posts like this restore some measure of that hope. So do the Republican senators who’ve changed their tact after witnessing the violence.

    You mean, those who knuckled under to threats?  Wonderful.

    • #62
  3. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I can’t properly express my opinion of this @susanquinn post while following the CoC, other than to say it is completely wrong.

    I don’t like seeing a mob in the capitol. I suppose Trump should have ordered them shot? I wanted to see the protest march outside, not this rampage. Trump’s only fault was in refusing to kneel in surrender despite credible fraud claims

    I’m looking at the people agreeing with you, and I wonder why I am wasting time here.

     

    Being a “decorum conservative” or whatever term one prefers, seems an easy hole to fall into. 

    • #63
  4. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Skyler (View Comment):
    election fraud is a reprehensible and unforgivable crime

    You know what else is a reprehensible crime?  Making false accusations of election fraud.

    • #64
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    election fraud is a reprehensible and unforgivable crime

    You know what else is a reprehensible crime? Making false accusations of election fraud.

    Oh, that would be the Democrats for… what, 40 years?

    • #65
  6. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    election fraud is a reprehensible and unforgivable crime

    You know what else is a reprehensible crime? Making false accusations of election fraud.

    Oh, that would be the Democrats for… what, 40 years?

    Well that and the fact that actual fraud is a crime  and the other isn’t.

    • #66
  7. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    election fraud is a reprehensible and unforgivable crime

    You know what else is a reprehensible crime? Making false accusations of election fraud.

    Oh, that would be the Democrats for… what, 40 years?

    Well that and the fact that actual fraud is a crime and the other isn’t.

    Fine, I’ll just stick with reprehensible and unforgivable then.

    • #67
  8. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    election fraud is a reprehensible and unforgivable crime

    You know what else is a reprehensible crime? Making false accusations of election fraud.

    Oh, that would be the Democrats for… what, 40 years?

    Well that and the fact that actual fraud is a crime and the other isn’t.

    Fine, I’ll just stick with reprehensible and unforgivable then.

    Again just remember it’s been the Democrats making FALSE accusations of election fraud, for at least 40 years.

    • #68
  9. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    election fraud is a reprehensible and unforgivable crime

    You know what else is a reprehensible crime? Making false accusations of election fraud.

    Oh, that would be the Democrats for… what, 40 years?

    Well that and the fact that actual fraud is a crime and the other isn’t.

    Fine, I’ll just stick with reprehensible and unforgivable then.

    Well that works.  At least, unlike “crime,” it’s in the realm of opinion.

     

    • #69
  10. davenr321 Coolidge
    davenr321
    @davenr321

    Agreed. As an American I can righteously choose not to vote, which means I openly accept (not “support”) the winner as President – though I certainly “support” the office of President. If I righteously choose to vote, same thing, only I have more skin in the game, and I get to share more in celebrating the outcome (which might be more depressing than a funeral). 

    “We” – perhaps just me – have spent the last four years, maybe, living in Glen Greenwald’s recent essay explaining Trump’s successes and the injustices committed against honesty regarding the use of the word “dictator.” We’ve also been living in Victor Davis Hanson’s cogent arguments supporting the Trump presidency.

    Well… even though this nonsense doesn’t equate to the pro-communist forces openly, violently attacking our country at all levels from within and without, I see this as President Trump swapped for Spencer Tracy at the end of It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World.

    I want to defend him to the last, but I cannot. He did great things as President, I, too cringed at the man when he opened his mouth, though he had my vote in November … but, we’re done, here.

    • #70
  11. Jesse Brown Coolidge
    Jesse Brown
    @JesseBrown

    In 2016 I voted for Gary Johnson and his “Make America Sane Again” campaign. Not because I thought he’d win, I didn’t; but because I hoped to see the Libertarian Party make a good showing – it kinda did. I wanted to see the possibility of a viable third party. Unfortunately, there were two many kooks and asshats and that’s what a lot of people focused on. Plus Johnson’s involvement with “Mary  Jane “ put him too far on the fringe. The mainstream voting public was just not ready for that yet (all the while doing a bottle of Merlot or a glass or two or three of Gentleman Jim). But, all that said, I saw at the time what Trump was and what he was is what we saw and have seen since November 3rd.  <insert pejorative of choice here>

    I often wonder how a Gary Johnson Administration would have turned out had he stayed with the GOP and won the primary and the general election. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a levelheaded, reasonable, civil and civic minded, pro business administration, a la Gary Johnson and Bill Weld, could have accomplished the same benefits to our economy as DT.  Without the angst.

    I’m not sure what happened yesterday, whether it was just pent up anger at the perceived theft of the election via voter fraud or a false flag by Antifa infiltrators or whatever. It will forever go down as a low point in our political history. And Trump’s legacy will forever be associated with that and not any good his administration may have done.

    I probably have a lot more to say but little motivation or energy to write more just now. My 8 year old Golden Retriever, Lassie, just had her eyes removed after acquiring Golden Retriever Pigmentary Uveitis and acute glaucoma which destroyed her vision literally overnight. I have 6 dogs (including 3 rescues and another blind one) but Lassie is my baby and I care more for her right now than all this political drama. We’ve made our bed politically. Now we have to lie in it . I seriously doubt we’ll get much sleep over the next 4 years  

     

     

     

    • #71
  12. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):

    Thanks for writing this, because it pretty much expresses how I feel. I have been avoiding making any political posts, and especially any Trump-related posts, for a long time, because things are just too volatile (even here). But I am feeling deeply disappointed tonight. This is what Trump will be remembered for.

    For a long time, I have (at least privately) maintained that I didn’t care about “character,” just results. I have never liked Trump as a person, but that didn’t stop me from voting for him (twice). I didn’t like the words that came out of his mouth, but I was generally happy with what he was actually doing, and I thought that was all that mattered. For three years and eleven months, I was content with that position.

    Now? Let’s just say I’m reevaluating my priorities.

    What happened yesterday was done by a small fraction of those on he mall. It wasn’t done because of anything Trump said. People are frustrated, their politicians not only ignore them, but mock them. Our election process barely meets Third World standards. Even Mexico has a photo voter registration card the quality of our driver’s licenses. If we are going to punish our candidates for pointing out how easily the system can be exploited and pushing for change, then the Democrats will not change. In fact, they double down on winning strategies. VDH was right when he compared Trump to tragic heroes such as Shane, High Noon, The Magnificent Seven, the strong man willing to save them when they are unable to save themselves. Ones saved, they turned on their savior, wishing to rid themselves of someone now deemed too unseemly for their tastes. This time, some of those being saved didn’t wait for the job to be done before turning on the tragic hero. This time, the bad guys won and have served notice that if you oppose them, they will destroy you. I think I would rather watch the western.

    • #72
  13. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    SParker (View Comment):
    yet he makes the calculations he’s made post-election (???). Not immediately obvious, and I look forward to his memoirs ‘splaining the move.

    The founders gave him that path for a reason.

    • #73
  14. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):
    This is what Trump will be remembered for.

    I’ll remember Trump for what I remember him for. Others will try to push their view of what to remember Trump for. Same as for any other president. The battle will now be over the memory.

    Trump will not garner their memories for long because they will be too busy suffering shock at what the Democrats are doing to them.

    • #74
  15. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    She (View Comment):
    Yes, I think Trump will, when the dust has settled, be viewed as something of a tragic hero. One who accomplished much, and yet whose downfall was the inevitable result of his tragic flaws:

    This time, the failure was as much because of the tragic flaws manifested today in our country: a press that is the propaganda arm of the Democrats, a sorry election system that enables fraud and doubt, big tech, corporations that want open borders, an out of control administrative state, corrupt politicians, greedy voters who want the government to be Santa, a secular society, and a cultural war long lost. It might be cute blaming Trump, but all those problems are not new. The people allowed them to fester. 

    • #75
  16. Jesse Brown Coolidge
    Jesse Brown
    @JesseBrown

    EHerring (View Comment):
    VDH was right when he compared Trump to tragic heroes such as Shane, High Noon, The Magnificent Seven, the strong man willing to save them when they are unable to save themselves. Ones saved, they turned on their savior, wishing to rid themselves of someone now deemed too unseemly for their tastes. This time, some of those being saved didn’t wait for the job to be done before turning on the tragic hero. This time, the bad guys won and have served notice that if you oppose them, they will destroy you. I think I would rather watch the western.

     

     A few years ago I was invited to spend the weekend with Professor Hanson at his cabin in the Sierras. To say it was an interesting weekend would be an understatement. I have great respect for VDH. He is a towering intellect. In this case though I think I have to disagree with the good doctor. Trump is no Alan Ladd or Gary Cooper or the virtuous characters they played in the movies. He’s a huckster with no redeeming personal values or honor that I can detect. 

    • #76
  17. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Jesse Brown (View Comment):

    In 2016 I voted for Gary Johnson and his “Make America Sane Again” campaign. Not because I thought he’d win, I didn’t; but because I hoped to see the Libertarian Party make a good showing – it kinda did. I wanted to see the possibility of a viable third party. Unfortunately, there were two many kooks and asshats and that’s what a lot of people focused on. Plus Johnson’s involvement with “Mary Jane “ put him too far on the fringe. The mainstream voting public was just not ready for that yet (all the while doing a bottle of Merlot or a glass or two or three of Gentleman Jim). But, all that said, I saw at the time what Trump was and what he was is what we saw and have seen since November 3rd. <insert pejorative of choice here>

    I often wonder how a Gary Johnson Administration would have turned out had he stayed with the GOP and won the primary and the general election. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a levelheaded, reasonable, civil and civic minded, pro business administration, a la Gary Johnson and Bill Weld, could have accomplished the same benefits to our economy as DT. Without the angst.

    I’m not sure what happened yesterday, whether it was just pent up anger at the perceived theft of the election via voter fraud or a false flag by Antifa infiltrators or whatever. It will forever go down as a low point in our political history. And Trump’s legacy will forever be associated with that and not any good his administration may have done.

    I probably have a lot more to say but little motivation or energy to write more just now. My 8 year old Golden Retriever, Lassie, just had her eyes removed after acquiring Golden Retriever Pigmentary Uveitis and acute glaucoma which destroyed her vision literally overnight. I have 6 dogs (including 3 rescues and another blind one) but Lassie is my baby and I care more for her right now than all this political drama. We’ve made our bed politically. Now we have to lie in it . I seriously doubt we’ll get much sleep over the next 4 years

     

    So sorry to hear this, about your pup.  That’s just awful.  Wishing you and yours the best with her.

    • #77
  18. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    election fraud is a reprehensible and unforgivable crime

    You know what else is a reprehensible crime? Making false accusations of election fraud.

    If the Democrats believe the system doesn’t enable fraud, then let them implement it for gun sales… no more NICS background checks, no ID needed to purchase, a right that must be allowed at no cost to avoid suppression, make the system so that it encourages as many people to own a gun as possible, no matter their knowledge on how to use one, allow felons to own guns, allow purchases through direct mail delivery without requiring  FDL in the middle, use the honor system….

    • #78
  19. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Trump has inadvertently done the Republican Party a big favor: On his way out the door he has discredited himself with a good portion of his supporters. This has given Republicans a golden opportunity to secure a Trumpian-free future. They may not have to live the next few years with Trump hanging over them.

    They can do that by taking seriously the issues that led to Trump being embraced in the first place. This is like an ex boyfriend getting the opportunity to win back his girlfriend when she catches her current boyfriend cheating on her. If he can show he’s changed, he might get her back. If he stays the same old guy, she will either reconcile with her boyfriend or find someone new.

    Republicans have that window open right now. It won’t stay open very long. And unfortunately, I suspect the Republican establishment will instead smugly assert that they were right all along and Trumpians must come crawling back to them. That won’t happen. The stupid party will ensure that they either reconcile with Trump (especially if he regrets his recent behavior, which he is clever enough to do if he sees advantage in it) or find someone new to torment them.

    • #79
  20. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Jesse Brown (View Comment):

    EHerring (View Comment):
    VDH was right when he compared Trump to tragic heroes such as Shane, High Noon, The Magnificent Seven, the strong man willing to save them when they are unable to save themselves. Ones saved, they turned on their savior, wishing to rid themselves of someone now deemed too unseemly for their tastes. This time, some of those being saved didn’t wait for the job to be done before turning on the tragic hero. This time, the bad guys won and have served notice that if you oppose them, they will destroy you. I think I would rather watch the western.

    A few years ago I was invited to spend the weekend with Professor Hanson at his cabin in the Sierras. To say it was an interesting weekend would be an understatement. I have great respect for VDH. He is a towering intellect. In this case though I think I have to disagree with the good doctor. Trump is no Alan Ladd or Gary Cooper or the virtuous characters they played in the movies. He’s a huckster with no redeeming personal values or honor that I can detect.

    Serious question.  Do you doubt his patriotism (i.e., love of country) or do you regard it as .  .  . oh, a pose.

    I’ll tip my hand.  I believe that it’s real and the source of much of the loyalty he engenders in many people.  There is a significant segment of the country that is incredibly tired of the America-bashing from the left.  While I understand that certain of Trump’s “values” are open to question, he has at least one redeeming one, and it’s one that’s really needed.

    • #80
  21. Chris Member
    Chris
    @Chris

    Two interesting podcasts on Ricochet these last 12 hours.  The Federalist, where one of their editors talks through what she saw at the Capitol.  And VDH’s discussion with Troy Senik where they talk add time to a regularly scheduled podcast to discuss the events in real-time and then just released the add on portion.

    Both are well worth the listen.

     

    • #81
  22. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    This has given Republicans a golden opportunity to secure a Trumpian-free future. They may not have to live the next few years with Trump hanging over them.

    Romney is waiting in the wings for the rinse and repeat crowd.

    • #82
  23. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    EHerring (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    This has given Republicans a golden opportunity to secure a Trumpian-free future. They may not have to live the next few years with Trump hanging over them.

    Romney is waiting in the wings for the rinse and repeat crowd.

    The knives are already out for Hawley and Cruz.  After all, they did what they had every right to do but shouldn’t have.

    • #83
  24. Chris Member
    Chris
    @Chris

    Percival (View Comment):

    Poindexter (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Poindexter (View Comment):

    Agreed. I was never a Trump fan, but I’m glad of the good things that happened on his watch; judges etc.

    He has foolishly made it impossible for me to defend those things.

    What he did was for the most part good. How he expressed himself was problematic.

    I’ve worked for guys who made Trump look like Miss Manners. They were effective too. I’ve worked for guys who I’m sure got straight As in comportment who were otherwise wastes of skin. He was better than the alternative. The whole country is going to find out that he still was better than the alternative. They are going to learn that the hard way, unfortunately.+

    Maybe, but we could have done better.

    Cruz, maybe. But as I recall, the majority of the Never Trump people started out as Never Cruz.

    Not sure whether they were the majority, but I do know that when it was down to Trump and Cruz in the primaries there were people who didn’t feel that donating to Cruz was worthwhile because they preferred to complain.  To me.  When I said “Then, let’s get behind Cruz”.  Water under the bridge, but it came to me yesterday.

    • #84
  25. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Susan, all that matters is whether or not fraud occurred. If you don’t believe it, then it was over back in November. Is that your position?

    If you believe fraud did occur however, how does anything that’s happened since the election make a difference?

    Trumps behavior, tweets, or the actions undertaken today have no bearing on the facts of that matter.

    I understand where you are coming from; however, I disagree. There was definitely fraud in November and it almost certainly turned the election in two states. That justified every legal maneuver up until today and maybe even justified the protest votes today by republican legislators, although I tend to agree with Mike Lee and Tom Cotton on this issue. I am not certain and we can be certain that fraud determined the election. Also the country is too closely divided to sustain the type of action it would take to overturn the results this late. Trump had to take the Jacksonian approach. Acknowledge the fraud and vow to fight it and return. He needed to take that approach at some time, not too early and not too late. He waited too long. This is not surprisingly given who he is. As much as I hate to say it if fraud won the election this time it worked. The key was to preserve what could be preserved and make the case strongly enough that some action had to be taken. Alas, Trump wasn’t up to that task.

    So your position is that fraud likely occured on such an audacious level as to steal a US election, but that we should shrug it off despite the thousands of pieces of evidence we’ve got and let it go in the hope we can inch out a win next time?

    My position is that you can’t unscramble eggs.  Once the fraud was committed and the election stolen, the legal challenges played out and electors were certified by the state officials, and they had voted.  It was done.  Fait accompli.  We can of course have a civil war with violence in the streets and it may yet come to that; however, the two sides are too close in numbers for that to be pretty or have any real hope of doing anything other than shattering the republic and immiserating millions.   There had to be a turn to a more productive strategy.   I supported the president all the way thru the election and even bit my tongue for the past two months because it wasn’t yet time for introspection and soul searching.  There is nothing clear we have evidence of irregularities but it isn’t clear and It would have to be very clear for the solutions you were proposing to work.  There was no longer a constitutional mechanism left to resolve this.   I may not value my life enough to live of my knees; however, I also don’t value it so little that I am willing to throw it away on a hopeless cause.   They cheated.  It worked.  We have to figure out how we keep it from happening again and formulate a better plan than if it does.  I want to win not martyr myself.

    • #85
  26. Suspira Member
    Suspira
    @Suspira

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    It’s a little too early to say. He’s done being President, but I don’t know that he’s done.

    OMG. So we’re in a horror movie? Where the homicidal maniac is killed but somehow doesn’t die?? Thanks. I was hoping I’d be able to sleep tonight.

    • #86
  27. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    I agree. These last two months have been hard to take, even for a supporter like me. Yesterday was the final straw. I can’t defend him any longer. I’ve come to the conclusion he is not mentally well balanced. That doesn’t mean he’s not functional under most conditions but highly dysfunctional under other certain conditions. I’m glad he was president but this was a tragic end, and I’m not referring to his election loss in November. 

    • #87
  28. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Conservatives engaging in their favorite pastime: Under the bus people throwing. Except for the GOPers, that’s too public for me. I prefer to set my people adrift on an ice floe, but only when nobody is looking. 

    • #88
  29. David B. Sable Inactive
    David B. Sable
    @DavidSable

    I didn’t vote for Donald Trump in 2016 because he reminded me of a leader of a fringe Christian group I belonged to in my youth – unaccountable, won’t answer questions straight up, accusatory, etc.

    The far left persuaded me to vote for Donald Trump in 2020.  If Democrats even had room in their plank for “safe, legal, and rare” at least I would concede they were trying to work with me.  But I can’t go for “shout my abortion”.  And you have to admit, Trump’s policies did some things I am in favor of.

    I felt the far left was on this civil rights train that was careening out of control.  The left has slogans and protest in their DNA and every contemporary infraction seemed to take them to the streets in some sort of addictive, self-righteous, self-gratification.

    The left made me say, “Ah, hell.  I’ll vote for Donald.”

    After yesterday, I somewhat wish I hadn’t.  Or at the very least, I am disappointed at the outcome.  I won’t beat myself over it.  After all, I’m not sure what other option I had. Constitutional party maybe?

    • #89
  30. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Susan, all that matters is whether or not fraud occurred. If you don’t believe it, then it was over back in November. Is that your position?

    If you believe fraud did occur however, how does anything that’s happened since the election make a difference?

    Trumps behavior, tweets, or the actions undertaken today have no bearing on the facts of that matter.

    I do think fraud was done. And the point is that his rantings and ravings and incitement made no difference. That’s the point.

    • #90
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