Trump-Biden Debate Wrap-Up

 

President Donald Trump faced former Vice President Joe Biden for the first presidential debate Tuesday night in Cleveland. It was a televised headache.

In theory, Chris Wallace was the moderator but immediately proved ineffective at controlling the two septuagenarians bickering for the next 96 minutes. By the end, it felt like the debate was between Trump and a Wallace/Biden tag team.

Trump came out swinging, peppering Biden with interruptions and real-time fact checks. He criticized the Democrat’s 47 years in Washington and pointed out how little he accomplished during that half century.

Biden lost his cool several times, telling Trump “Will you shut up, man?” oddly followed with “Keep yappin’, man.” He called the President a racist, a clown, a liar, and the worst president in US history. He directed most of his remarks into the camera, while Trump faced Biden throughout.

Overall, the Democrat held up well during the break-free debate, making minimal gaffes and keeping a level energy throughout. The Trump team lowered expectations so much that it ended up helping him. The President, however, was definitely the most energetic man on stage.

This is where I’d usually discuss the policies discussed but this brawl was far more UFC than Oxford Union. I offer sincere prayers for the transcriptionists trying to document this thing. It was an hour and a half of crosstalk.

Biden refused to answer whether he supported packing the courts, claimed his Biden-Sanders Manifesto didn’t exist, at one time criticized lockdowns then later supported them.

Trump pressed Biden on the lawlessness raging through Democratic-led cities, Hunter Biden’s sweetheart deals with shady foreign potentates, and the dangers of mass mail-in voting.

Wallace and Biden hit Trump hard on COVID, climate change, and critical race theory (which Wallace deceptively cast as mere “sensitivity training”). The “moderator” seemed balanced at first; by the end, he and Biden were shaking their heads and laughing with each other at Trump’s aggressive approach.

The New York Times headline says it all: “Chris Wallace Tries to Rein In an Unruly Trump at First Debate.” It is not the job of a moderator to “rein in” either side. The fact that a Fox News host ran interference for the Democrat does not bode well for bias at the next two debates.

The next debates are scheduled for Oct. 15 and Oct. 22. Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Kamala Harris will meet on Oct. 7.

Published in Elections, General
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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    C-SPAN debate vote (after 91,629 votes):

    This . . . surprises me. I see it more as evidence of the President’s unshakeable base rather than a response to his performance last night.

    Wouldn’t that be assuming that the 91,629 votes were all – or almost all – Trump supporters?

    That’s me extrapolating that Donald Trump wins with 57.9% of the vote. Even if Lyin’ Biden gets the None of the Above and the Unsure vote, he still doesn’t win.

    A majority of the popular vote sure would be nice!  Although maybe it would be better to have a popular-vote win after places like PRC (People’s Republic of California) and a few other loony states have their “national popular vote compact.”  Then we can watch the fireworks as all of PRC’s electoral votes go for the Republican in 2024!

    • #121
  2. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Page 2 and following results for Proud Boy violence, which our President asked to “stand by”

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWUDL06Jyb0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    https://orinocotribune.com/proud-boys-the-extreme-right-group-spreading-violence-in-the-us/

    -https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep25259?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/19/proud-boys-convicted-attempt-assault-versus-antifa-activists/

    https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2020/09/kalamazoo-police-release-videos-from-proud-boys-protest-to-the-public.html

    One unarmed Proud Boy was standing by when he was murdered in cold blood. Maybe they should stand by and take measures to protect themselves. Does Antifa own Portland? It seems that they do since the Portland DA releases them after they’ve been arrested so that they can riot and attack police more.

    Has it been the Proud Boys who have been burning, vandalizing and murdering people in Portland and Seattle and elsewhere for the last 4 months? Or has that been Antifa and BLM? Biden still won’t condemn Antifa and BLM by name…but Trump must dance to Chris Wallace’s tune and condemn an organization that has been relatively quiet and law-abiding when compared to Antifa and BLM? Why didn’t Wallace ask the same of Biden?

    Brian,

    There seemed to be a consistent theme to all of these “confrontations” in the links. The Proud Boys marched and then a larger number of Antifa waited to attack them. Oddly, if they were “White Supremacists” they had no confederate flags. If they were “Fascists” they had no swastikas. On the other hand, “Antifa” is the name of a Bolshevik street fighting gang from the 1930s. They shout Marxist slogans and attack the police when there are no Proud Boys to attack. They regularly harass any ordinary citizen that is unfortunate enough to be surrounded by these psychotic bullies.

    It is very clear even from these articles in very left-wing publications that it is Antifa who is aggressively spreading violence.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Tim,

    You are so right. I think everyone should just turn the other cheek while BLM/Antifa burns the whole country to the ground. What a wonderful idea. Not!!!

    Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Tim, just what are you smoking. Aside from the absurdity of what you just said, it actually is still false anyway. The proud boys weren’t starting the violence. They really were just marching. In fact, they had a permit to march which the idiots of Antifa never do. If Antifa had left them alone all would have been fine. It was Antifa that needed to turn the other cheek.

    Antifa is a criminal gang, not a political organization. Nothing they do resembles a legal protest. They are professional rioters.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #122
  3. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    James Lileks (View Comment):
    Are you troubled by Biden’s assertion that Antifa is simply an animating spirit, a concept, and not an organization? It seems more pertinent, given that the left has produced 98.6% of the urban unrest.

    JamesL,

    An animating spirit that caused 2 billion dollars in property damage, injured hundreds and killed more than a handful. Professional rioters organized and paid for. Soon we will find out by who.

    Oh, did I mention that George Floyd died of a heart attack induced by a self-administered overdose of fentanyl? The cops were trying to get him into an ambulance. The immobilization hold that Chauvin was using was applied according to police trained procedure and, on video, was applied properly so it wasn’t cutting off his air supply. Floyd was out of his head from the beginning. He was yelling that he couldn’t breathe because he was claustrophobic when he was sitting in the back of the police car by himself.

    Antifa, like Biden, is completely full of cr#p.

    Regards,

    Jim

     

     

    • #123
  4. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Page 2 and following results for Proud Boy violence, which our President asked to “stand by”

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWUDL06Jyb0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    https://orinocotribune.com/proud-boys-the-extreme-right-group-spreading-violence-in-the-us/

    -https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep25259?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/19/proud-boys-convicted-attempt-assault-versus-antifa-activists/

    https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2020/09/kalamazoo-police-release-videos-from-proud-boys-protest-to-the-public.html

    One unarmed Proud Boy was standing by when he was murdered in cold blood. Maybe they should stand by and take measures to protect themselves. Does Antifa own Portland? It seems that they do since the Portland DA releases them after they’ve been arrested so that they can riot and attack police more.

    Has it been the Proud Boys who have been burning, vandalizing and murdering people in Portland and Seattle and elsewhere for the last 4 months? Or has that been Antifa and BLM? Biden still won’t condemn Antifa and BLM by name…but Trump must dance to Chris Wallace’s tune and condemn an organization that has been relatively quiet and law-abiding when compared to Antifa and BLM? Why didn’t Wallace ask the same of Biden?

    Brian,

    There seemed to be a consistent theme to all of these “confrontations” in the links. The Proud Boys marched and then a larger number of Antifa waited to attack them. Oddly, if they were “White Supremacists” they had no confederate flags. If they were “Fascists” they had no swastikas. On the other hand, “Antifa” is the name of a Bolshevik street fighting gang from the 1930s. They shout Marxist slogans and attack the police when there are no Proud Boys to attack. They regularly harass any ordinary citizen that is unfortunate enough to be surrounded by these psychotic bullies.

    It is very clear even from these articles in very left-wing publications that it is Antifa who is aggressively spreading violence.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Because you do not throw pearls at pigs (i.e Antifa and BLM).

    Self-defense is a fundamental right, and confronting evil a responsibility.

    • #124
  5. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    You know the other really stupid thing that Biden (and his Party) said last night, when the President talked about a vaccine for the WuFlu being available soon, Biden said that he wouldn’t recommend anyone take it because the President is untrustworthy. I mean, it’s not like the President is mixing it up himself in the White House basement.

    So dumb. But hey, if they want to wear the anti-vaxxer label, that’s fine with me.

    • #125
  6. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):
    I mean, it’s not like the President is mixing it up himself in the White House basement.

    He could be.  He could have a secret lab in the basement.

    • #126
  7. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Last night, Trump was himself. He talked the way he tweets. If he hears a lie, he’s not going to stand there and “shut up”, even if his whopping two minutes were up.  Biden has been resting up, hiding out and no one has asked him anything.  Trump has just spent three and a half years being spied on, impeached, sabotaged, mis-represented and bashed around by the swamp, the media and anyone else who thought Obama walked on water, and Trump is not going to be fake and pretend all is fine.

    So this is not going to be a “normal” debate or a normal election. All the questions posed – Obamacare, the environment, race relations, taxes were plated for Biden. He has an answer, vague, but an answer for everything. He’s working class, he’s going to bring jobs, he’s going to do this and that – you mean all the things Obama didn’t do, yet received a Nobel Peace Prize, and Trump has already done? He even stole his platform “Made in America”. He’s a slick politician whose party represents everything I have come to deplore, and I was raised a Democrat.

    • #127
  8. Timothy Landon Inactive
    Timothy Landon
    @TimothyLandon

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Maybe because pacifism in the face of rioting BLM terrorists is how you die quickly.

    Why can’t Trump condemn groups that engage in political violence?

    I believe he’s been condemning antifa and BLM for several months. Will you?

    I reject political violence, whether perpetrated by BLM, Antifa, or the Proud Boys. These groups should be monitored by law enforcement so long as they plan to instigate violent actions and riots. Why can’t Trump, and Biden, agree with this statement? Why do they have to tell us what fringe groups they sympathize with?

    • #128
  9. Timothy Landon Inactive
    Timothy Landon
    @TimothyLandon

    Django (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    or comic relief?

    So the methods of Ghandi, MLK Jr are nonsense to you?

    • #129
  10. Timothy Landon Inactive
    Timothy Landon
    @TimothyLandon

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Page 2 and following results for Proud Boy violence, which our President asked to “stand by”

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWUDL06Jyb0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    https://orinocotribune.com/proud-boys-the-extreme-right-group-spreading-violence-in-the-us/

    -https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep25259?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/19/proud-boys-convicted-attempt-assault-versus-antifa-activists/

    https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2020/09/kalamazoo-police-release-videos-from-proud-boys-protest-to-the-public.html

    One unarmed Proud Boy was standing by when he was murdered in cold blood. Maybe they should stand by and take measures to protect themselves. Does Antifa own 

    Brian,

    There seemed to be a consistent theme to all of these “confrontations” in the links. The Proud Boys marched and then a larger number of Antifa waited to attack them. Oddly, if they were “White Supremacists” they had no confederate flags. If they were “Fascists” they had no swastikas. On the other hand, “Antifa” is the name of a Bolshevik street fighting gang from the 1930s. They shout Marxist slogans and attack the police when there are no Proud Boys to attack. They regularly harass any ordinary citizen that is unfortunate enough to be surrounded by these psychotic bullies.

    It is very clear even from these articles in very left-wing publications that it is Antifa who is aggressively spreading violence.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Tim,

    You are so right. I think everyone should just turn the other cheek while BLM/Antifa burns the whole country to the ground. What a wonderful idea. Not!!!

    Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Tim, just what are you smoking. Aside from the absurdity of what you just said, it actually is still false anyway. The proud boys weren’t starting the violence. They really were just marching. In fact, they had a permit to march which the idiots of Antifa never do. If Antifa had left them alone all would have been fine. It was Antifa that needed to turn the other cheek.

    Antifa is a criminal gang, not a political organization. Nothing they do resembles a legal protest. They are professional rioters.

    Regards,

    Jim

    The Proud Boys, to me, are goading rivals into street fights. Why? How does this achieve their goals? 

    • #130
  11. Timothy Landon Inactive
    Timothy Landon
    @TimothyLandon

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Page 2 and following results for Proud Boy violence, which our President asked to “stand by”

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWUDL06Jyb0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    https://orinocotribune.com/proud-boys-the-extreme-right-group-spreading-violence-in-the-us/

    -https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep25259?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/19/proud-boys-convicted-attempt-assault-versus-antifa-activists/

    https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2020/09/kalamazoo-police-release-videos-from-proud-boys-protest-to-the-public.html

    One unarmed Proud Boy was standing by when he was murdered in cold blood. Maybe they should stand by and take measures to protect themselves. Does Antifa own Portland? It seems that they do since the Portland DA releases them after they’ve been arrested so that they can riot and attack police more.

    Has it been the Proud Boys who have been burning, vandalizing and murdering people in Portland and Seattle and elsewhere for the last 4 months? Or has that been Antifa and BLM? Biden still won’t condemn Antifa and BLM by name…but Trump must dance to Chris Wallace’s tune and condemn an organization that has been relatively quiet and law-abiding when compared to Antifa and BLM? Why didn’t Wallace ask the same of Biden?

    Brian,

    There seemed to be a consistent theme to all of these “confrontations” in the links. The Proud Boys marched and then a larger number of Antifa waited to attack them. Oddly, if they were “White Supremacists” they had no confederate flags. If they were “Fascists” they had no swastikas. On the other hand, “Antifa” is the name of a Bolshevik street fighting gang from the 1930s. They shout Marxist slogans and attack the police when there are no Proud Boys to attack. They regularly harass any ordinary citizen that is unfortunate enough to be surrounded by these psychotic bullies.

    It is very clear even from these articles in very left-wing publications that it is Antifa who is aggressively spreading violence.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Because you do not throw pearls at pigs (i.e Antifa and BLM).

    Self-defense is a fundamental right, and confronting evil a responsibility.

    Why not plan events less likely to attract counter demonstrations?

    • #131
  12. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    or comic relief?

    So the methods of Ghandi, MLK Jr are nonsense to you?

    Both would be soundly rejected by today’s left.

    • #132
  13. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Maybe because pacifism in the face of rioting BLM terrorists is how you die quickly.

    Why can’t Trump condemn groups that engage in political violence?

    I believe he’s been condemning antifa and BLM for several months. Will you?

    I reject political violence, whether perpetrated by BLM, Antifa, or the Proud Boys. These groups should be monitored by law enforcement so long as they plan to instigate violent actions and riots. Why can’t Trump, and Biden, agree with this statement? Why do they have to tell us what fringe groups they sympathize with?

    Tim,

    Yes, why do they? Because Biden and Wallace brought it up again. A completely false narrative. BTW, again the Proud Boys were outnumbered 4 to 1 and the Proud Boys actually had a permit to march. Antifa attacked. Antifa is the perpetrator of violence. Why can’t you see that and directly condemn this horror which has caused 2 billion dollars in property damage? Why like a princess feeling the pea under twenty mattresses must you search first for something negative to say about the Proud Boys. That is the most irrelevant nonsense I’ve ever heard.

    There is only so much time here on earth (I’m not sure where you reside). You don’t get to the most significant point but forever find ways to manipulate trivial facts with no regard to their import. Anyone who demands that Trump waste his breath condemning a barely existent patriotic group while mass mayhem is loosed in multiple American cities by a bunch of Bolsheviks is a cheap political provocateur in league with a perverse political purpose.

    You don’t reject political violence. You are just fine with it until somebody punches your cheap leftest thugs back. Then you are against political violence. Pleeeaaaassseee!!!

    Regards,

    Jim

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #133
  14. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    Why can’t Trump, and Biden, agree with this statement?

    Because they are Biden’s shock troops. As Biden himself said, the violence will end only when he’s elected. That’s a threat.

    • #134
  15. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    or comic relief?

    So the methods of Ghandi, MLK Jr are nonsense to you?

    It is my opinion that nothing you have said is worthy of serious comment.

    • #135
  16. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    or comic relief?

    So the methods of Ghandi, MLK Jr are nonsense to you?

    I think  Ghandi is extremely over-rated (my apologies to the Indians).   His method of non-violent submission only worked when dealing with civilized people, for example, the British.  If Ghandi and his followers had to do the same thing with Nazi Germany or Imperialist Japan, there would be no Indians left today. 

    Just before World war II, Ghandi advocated that the Israeli Jews should just offer themselves to the Arabs “to be shot or thrown into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them.”  This was his strategy for ending the Jewish-Arab fighting.  During the war, he similarly suggested that Jews should go willingly to the death camps as their forced suicides will create an unanswerable critique of the Germans.  He also advocated British surrender to the Germans.  This is just nuts.  Thank goodness Winston Churchill didn’t take his advice.

    Martin Luther King Jr. took a tremendous and courageous risk in advocating non-violence for his cause.  But, like Ghandi, he was dealing with civilized people.  The most egregious racists in the South were not civilized, but most of the Southern populace and the Northern populace, were.  And when Federal Law Enforcement came down on the Southern offenders, they didn’t use non-violent resistance.  They used guns.

    The Dalai Lama also advocates non-violent resistance.  But as Dennis Prager puts it “He may be peaceful, but he doesn’t have a country anymore.”  The Chinese just savagely ate up Tibet.

    • #136
  17. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Page 2 and following results for Proud Boy violence, which our President asked to “stand by”

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWUDL06Jyb0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    https://orinocotribune.com/proud-boys-the-extreme-right-group-spreading-violence-in-the-us/

    -https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep25259?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/19/proud-boys-convicted-attempt-assault-versus-antifa-activists/

    https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2020/09/kalamazoo-police-release-videos-from-proud-boys-protest-to-the-public.html

    One unarmed Proud Boy was standing by when he was murdered in cold blood. Maybe they should stand by and take measures to protect themselves. Does Antifa own

    Brian,

    There seemed to be a consistent theme to all of these “confrontations” in the links. The Proud Boys marched and then a larger number of Antifa waited to attack them. Oddly, if they were “White Supremacists” they had no confederate flags. If they were “Fascists” they had no swastikas. On the other hand, “Antifa” is the name of a Bolshevik street fighting gang from the 1930s. They shout Marxist slogans and attack the police when there are no Proud Boys to attack. They regularly harass any ordinary citizen that is unfortunate enough to be surrounded by these psychotic bullies.

    It is very clear even from these articles in very left-wing publications that it is Antifa who is aggressively spreading violence.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Tim,

    You are so right. I think everyone should just turn the other cheek while BLM/Antifa burns the whole country to the ground. What a wonderful idea. Not!!!

    Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Tim, just what are you smoking. Aside from the absurdity of what you just said, it actually is still false anyway. The proud boys weren’t starting the violence. They really were just marching. In fact, they had a permit to march which the idiots of Antifa never do. If Antifa had left them alone all would have been fine. It was Antifa that needed to turn the other cheek.

    Antifa is a criminal gang, not a political organization. Nothing they do resembles a legal protest. They are professional rioters.

    Regards,

    Jim

    The Proud Boys, to me, are goading rivals into street fights. Why? How does this achieve their goals?

    Tim,

    I think you don’t actually carefully read your own links. The Proud Boys obtain a legal permit to march. Then they bring American Flags and march. That’s it! How is that goading anybody into a street fight? No, I think you have a problem following a causal chain of events. As they are legally marching and doing nothing provocative (unless you claim that flying an American Flag is provocative) they aren’t being provocative. Antifa, in their ideological lunacy, attack the Proud Boys without cause. They scream Fascist with a string of curse words and attack. BTW, Antifa does this to about everybody they run into on the street while they are committing arson and looting. No need to be a Proud Boy. They will harass and attack an elderly couple, a senator, or anybody they can. They jump on top of a car desperately trying to just get home. When the poor terrified motorist steps on the gas to get away from these lunatics the idiot who has climbed on the roof slides off and then claims they did it on purpose.

    All of this cr#p is on video and so are their sick obscene taunting curses on the audio. Their behavior is relentless reckless endangerment. If you don’t want to see it well goody goody for your willful blindness.

    Timmy, please wake up.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #137
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Tim,

    You are so right. I think everyone should just turn the other cheek while BLM/Antifa burns the whole country to the ground. What a wonderful idea. Not!!!

    Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Tim, just what are you smoking. Aside from the absurdity of what you just said, it actually is still false anyway. The proud boys weren’t starting the violence. They really were just marching. In fact, they had a permit to march which the idiots of Antifa never do. If Antifa had left them alone all would have been fine. It was Antifa that needed to turn the other cheek.

    Antifa is a criminal gang, not a political organization. Nothing they do resembles a legal protest. They are professional rioters.

    Regards,

    Jim

    The Proud Boys, to me, are goading rivals into street fights. Why? How does this achieve their goals?

    Tim,

    I think you don’t actually carefully read your own links. The Proud Boys obtain a legal permit to march. Then they bring American Flags and march. That’s it! How is that goading anybody into a street fight? No, I think you have a problem following a causal chain of events. As they are legally marching and doing nothing provocative (unless you claim that flying an American Flag is provocative) they aren’t being provocative. Antifa, in their ideological lunacy, attack the Proud Boys without cause. They scream Fascist with a string of curse words and attack. BTW, Antifa does this to about everybody they run into on the street while they are committing arson and looting. No need to be a Proud Boy. They will harass and attack an elderly couple, a senator, or anybody they can. They jump on top of a car desperately trying to just get home. When the poor terrified motorist steps on the gas to get away from these lunatics the idiot who has climbed on the roof slides off and then claims they did it on purpose.

    All of this cr#p is on video and so are their sick obscene taunting curses on the audio. Their behavior is relentless reckless endangerment. If you don’t want to see it well goody goody for your willful blindness.

    Timmy, please wake up.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Maybe Lassie could save him?  Probably nobody else can.

    • #138
  19. JamesSalerno Inactive
    JamesSalerno
    @JamesSalerno

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    or comic relief?

    So the methods of Ghandi, MLK Jr are nonsense to you?

    I think Ghandi is extremely over-rated (my apologies to the Indians). His method of non-violent submission only worked when dealing with civilized people, for example, the British. If Ghandi and his followers had to do the same thing with Nazi Germany or Imperialist Japan, there would be no Indians left today.

    Just before World war II, Ghandi advocated that the Israeli Jews should just offer themselves to the Arabs “to be shot or thrown into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them.” This was his strategy for ending the Jewish-Arab fighting. During the war, he similarly suggested that Jews should go willingly to the death camps as their forced suicides will create an unanswerable critique of the Germans. He also advocated British surrender to the Germans. This is just nuts. Thank goodness Winston Churchill didn’t take his advice.

    Martin Luther King Jr. took a tremendous and courageous risk in advocating non-violence for his cause. But, like Ghandi, he was dealing with civilized people. The most egregious racists in the South were not civilized, but most of the Southern populace and the Northern populace, were. And when Federal Law Enforcement came down on the Southern offenders, they didn’t use non-violent resistance. They used guns.

    The Dalai Lama also advocates non-violent resistance. But as Dennis Prager puts it “He may be peaceful, but he doesn’t have a country anymore.” The Chinese just savagely ate up Tibet.

    I love this post. Entertainment has elevated these figures to Christ levels and the truth is far more nuanced.

    • #139
  20. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    or comic relief?

    So the methods of Ghandi, MLK Jr are nonsense to you?

    Their methods were only effective due to who they were up against, its not universally applicable.

    Edit: I should have read Steven Seward’s response first, he already said it better.

    • #140
  21. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Why not plan events less likely to attract counter demonstrations?

    Why wear their dresses too short?  I don’t mean that to insult you, but to demonstrate the unreasonableness of giving domestic terrorists a hecklers rioters veto.  The Proud Boys are confrontational to demonstrate that they are not intimidated, that others shouldn’t be, and in some cases to protect others where politicians will not allow the cops to do so.  

    • #141
  22. Architectus Coolidge
    Architectus
    @Architectus

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    or comic relief?

    So the methods of Ghandi, MLK Jr are nonsense to you?

    I think Ghandi is extremely over-rated (my apologies to the Indians). His method of non-violent submission only worked when dealing with civilized people, for example, the British. If Ghandi and his followers had to do the same thing with Nazi Germany or Imperialist Japan, there would be no Indians left today.

    Just before World war II, Ghandi advocated that the Israeli Jews should just offer themselves to the Arabs “to be shot or thrown into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them.” This was his strategy for ending the Jewish-Arab fighting. During the war, he similarly suggested that Jews should go willingly to the death camps as their forced suicides will create an unanswerable critique of the Germans. He also advocated British surrender to the Germans. This is just nuts. Thank goodness Winston Churchill didn’t take his advice.

    Martin Luther King Jr. took a tremendous and courageous risk in advocating non-violence for his cause. But, like Ghandi, he was dealing with civilized people. The most egregious racists in the South were not civilized, but most of the Southern populace and the Northern populace, were. And when Federal Law Enforcement came down on the Southern offenders, they didn’t use non-violent resistance. They used guns.

    The Dalai Lama also advocates non-violent resistance. But as Dennis Prager puts it “He may be peaceful, but he doesn’t have a country anymore.” The Chinese just savagely ate up Tibet.

    Thank you Steven Seward.  These are points I’ve had to make numerous times, always to the shock of my listeners, because they have only imbibed the puff-piece TV movies, never getting the full context and stories of the individuals, especially Ghandi. People will never understand the value and applicability of non-violent resistance, if they don’t know why it worked when it did, and why it is not universally capable of succeeding. 

    • #142
  23. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Architectus (View Comment):
    Thank you Steven Seward. These are points I’ve had to make numerous times, always to the shock of my listeners, because they have only imbibed the puff-piece TV movies, never getting the full context and stories of the individuals, especially Ghandi. People will never understand the value and applicability of non-violent resistance, if they don’t know why it worked when it did, and why it is not universally capable of succeeding. 

    The Dalai Lama’s results are probably a lot more common than Ghandi’s.

    • #143
  24. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    • #144
  25. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    As Arte Johnson used to say, “Very interesting!”

    • #145
  26. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Brian,

    This is very interesting. It’s a classic Trump phenomenon. All of the high IQ folk are appalled by the Trump/Biden street fight so they get the reaction of the average person wrong. It doesn’t matter whether the high IQ is conservative or leftwing. The average person sees the whole thing differently.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #146
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    Why not plan events less likely to attract counter demonstrations?

    Why not just ask the left for permission to speak. In fact, why not ask them to write the slogans? That will be less likely to attract counter demonstrations. 

    • #147
  28. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    • #148
  29. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    • #149
  30. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    • #150
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