Trump-Biden Debate Wrap-Up

 

President Donald Trump faced former Vice President Joe Biden for the first presidential debate Tuesday night in Cleveland. It was a televised headache.

In theory, Chris Wallace was the moderator but immediately proved ineffective at controlling the two septuagenarians bickering for the next 96 minutes. By the end, it felt like the debate was between Trump and a Wallace/Biden tag team.

Trump came out swinging, peppering Biden with interruptions and real-time fact checks. He criticized the Democrat’s 47 years in Washington and pointed out how little he accomplished during that half century.

Biden lost his cool several times, telling Trump “Will you shut up, man?” oddly followed with “Keep yappin’, man.” He called the President a racist, a clown, a liar, and the worst president in US history. He directed most of his remarks into the camera, while Trump faced Biden throughout.

Overall, the Democrat held up well during the break-free debate, making minimal gaffes and keeping a level energy throughout. The Trump team lowered expectations so much that it ended up helping him. The President, however, was definitely the most energetic man on stage.

This is where I’d usually discuss the policies discussed but this brawl was far more UFC than Oxford Union. I offer sincere prayers for the transcriptionists trying to document this thing. It was an hour and a half of crosstalk.

Biden refused to answer whether he supported packing the courts, claimed his Biden-Sanders Manifesto didn’t exist, at one time criticized lockdowns then later supported them.

Trump pressed Biden on the lawlessness raging through Democratic-led cities, Hunter Biden’s sweetheart deals with shady foreign potentates, and the dangers of mass mail-in voting.

Wallace and Biden hit Trump hard on COVID, climate change, and critical race theory (which Wallace deceptively cast as mere “sensitivity training”). The “moderator” seemed balanced at first; by the end, he and Biden were shaking their heads and laughing with each other at Trump’s aggressive approach.

The New York Times headline says it all: “Chris Wallace Tries to Rein In an Unruly Trump at First Debate.” It is not the job of a moderator to “rein in” either side. The fact that a Fox News host ran interference for the Democrat does not bode well for bias at the next two debates.

The next debates are scheduled for Oct. 15 and Oct. 22. Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Kamala Harris will meet on Oct. 7.

Published in Elections, General
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  1. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    It would be nice if a moderator would just ask a straightforward question. I think David Mamet said the frustration is that when you engage in a dialog you have to agree on some basic elements. Wallace assumes the fires in California are caused by climate change, and Trump explained how dry layers of tinder can be set fire with a cigarette, and that forest management could be the issue. Smoky the Bear used to tell us that all the time. 

     

    • #91
  2. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Anyone want to talk about Biden’s proposed 500,000 vehicle recharging stations?

    Someone in the chat last night said that there are only 115,000 gas stations in the U.S. right now? They have been on decline since the 90s.

    • #92
  3. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I just saw the most wonderful amazing ad on Fox Business. In so many ways–freedom to be a charity, freedom to help kids rather than take the route the Brits have taken as we saw painfully with little Charlie–this is what this election is all about.

    So after you donate to the Trump campaign, send a couple of bucks to the best charity I know. :-)

    • #93
  4. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Jon, I think you missed the most egregious statement by Trump when he refused to tell the Proud Boys to go to hell, but instead said that they should “stand down and stand-by.”

    Stand by? Stand by! There is no room for White Supremacists to stand by, where they can be recalled.

    @garyrobbins, since you still believe the “Fine People” hoax along with Wallace, there is nothing more Trump could say.

    Trump must quickly and irrevocably renounce his acceptance of “The Proud Boys.”

    Trump has repeatedly denounced white supremacists.  That is something the MSM cannot afford to cover lest it debunk their narrative.  Thank goodness there are alternative news outlets out there, and I’m not referring to The Bulwark . . .

    • #94
  5. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Anyone want to talk about Biden’s proposed 500,000 vehicle recharging stations?

    Someone in the chat last night said that there are only 115,000 gas stations in the U.S. right now? They have been on decline since the 90s.

    It’s his underpants gnome idea. 

    • #95
  6. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    It would be nice if a moderator would just ask a straightforward question. I think David Mamet said the frustration is that when you engage in a dialog you have to agree on some basic elements. Wallace assumes the fires in California are caused by climate change, and Trump explained how dry layers of tinder can be set fire with a cigarette, and that forest management could be the issue. Smoky the Bear used to tell us that all the time.

     

    Ralphie,

    You got it exactly. Wallace assumed the phony premise of climate change causation in his mode of questioning. Chicken Little grew up and went off to lefty University. So Chicken now knows that somehow Oak Trees caused the acorn to fall on his wittle head. So Chicken wants to ban all the Oak Trees.

    Clearing out the underbrush was smart forestry for 100 years until the idiot environmentalists got involved. Now there is a huge amount of underbrush kindling to start and expand wildfires because the idiot environmentalists stopped normal forestry. The fire just got less than half a mile from my sister’s house in Northern Cal again this year. I’d like to go punch Gavin Newsom in the mouth. I’ll let my sister slap Kamala Harris across the face.

    Regards,

    Jim

     

    • #96
  7. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    This is not going to take down only Trump, this is going to lead to the Dems winning a bunch of senate seats

    That’s what you want. You should be happy. But all you do is complain.

    A pack of blessings light upon thy back;
    Happiness courts thee in her best array;
    But, like a misbehaved and sullen wench,
    Thou pout’st upon thy fortune and thy love.
    Take heed, take heed, for such die miserable.

    Drew,

    It’s the end of the world as Gary knows it. Oddly enough, I feel fine.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #97
  8. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Paging @troysenik ! Moderator skills needed. Although Troy frequently loses control of @richardepstein and @johnyoo on the Law Talk podcast, he does within a few minutes bring the discussion back to the point. If Troy can exhibit control over Epstein and Yoo, he clearly could moderate a Trump /  Biden debate, certainly better than the “news media” big names. 

    • #98
  9. David Carroll Thatcher
    David Carroll
    @DavidCarroll

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Jon, I think you missed the most egregious statement by Trump when he refused to tell the Proud Boys to go to hell, but instead said that they should “stand down and stand-by.”

    Stand by? Stand by! There is no room for White Supremacists to stand by, where they can be recalled.

    @garyrobbins, since you still believe the “Fine People” hoax along with Wallace, there is nothing more Trump could say.

    Trump must quickly and irrevocably renounce his acceptance of “The Proud Boys.”

    Weren’t the proud boys founded by a black Cuban?  Gary’s comment caused me to check out their web site, because I know so little about them.  This is the list of their “core values” from the web site.

    Minimal Government
    Maximum Freedom
    Anti-Political Correctness
    Anti-Drug War
    Closed Borders
    Anti-Racial Guilt
    Anti-Racism
    Pro-Free Speech (1st Amendment)
    Pro-Gun Rights (2nd Amendment)
    Glorifying the Entrepreneur
    Venerating the Housewife
    Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism

    How many white supremacists do you know that have Anti-Racism as a core value?

    • #99
  10. David Carroll Thatcher
    David Carroll
    @DavidCarroll

    I think last night’s biggest loser was Chris Wallace.

    • #100
  11. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    It would be nice if a moderator would just ask a straightforward question. I think David Mamet said the frustration is that when you engage in a dialog you have to agree on some basic elements. Wallace assumes the fires in California are caused by climate change, and Trump explained how dry layers of tinder can be set fire with a cigarette, and that forest management could be the issue. Smoky the Bear used to tell us that all the time.

     

    I remember well his famous slogan: “Only the Paris Climate Change Accord can prevent forest fires.”

    • #101
  12. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    In looking at the transcripts it seems the only reason the president mentioned the Proud Boys at all was because when he was badgered that he didn’t denounce white supremacists, he said “Sure I will! Give me names and I’ll do it!” That’s why Biden barked out Proud Boys. The “stand down” thing was from Wallace, who said he wanted to hear the President tell White Supremacists to stand down.

    My only disappointment is that the President took Biden’s “Proud Boys” bait, since from what I can tell, in 2020 they have been conspicuously absent from the plague of riots.

    • #102
  13. Timothy Landon Inactive
    Timothy Landon
    @TimothyLandon

    JamesSalerno (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Architectus (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    JamesSalerno (View Comment):

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Jon, I think you missed the most egregious statement by Trump when he refused to tell the Proud Boys to go to hell, but instead said that they should “stand down and stand-by.”

    Stand by? Stand by! There is no room for White Supremacists to stand by, where they can be recalled.

    Proud Boys are not white supremacist. That’s a disgusting lie.

    And there are plenty of non-whites in that group. But I guess that doesn’t matter.

    They just engage in political violence. Which the President now implicitly supports. Oy vey.

    Examples, pleas

    Please see Page 1 results from searching “examples of proud boy violence” and clicking through citations on their wiki –

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/proud-boys-chat-logs-premeditate-rally-violence-in-leaked-chats_n_5ce1e231e4b00e035b928683

    https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/proud-boys-0

    https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/10/05/right-wing-fighter-tusitala-tiny-toese-arrested-at-airport-for-2018-sidewalk-assault/

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/19/proud-boys-fbi-classification-extremist-group-white-nationalism-report?CMP=share_btn_tw

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/nyregion/proud-boys-antifa-sentence.html

    HuffPo? The Guardian? NY Times? These are anti-America propaganda rags.

    That is an ad hominem response.

    • #103
  14. Timothy Landon Inactive
    Timothy Landon
    @TimothyLandon

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Page 2 and following results for Proud Boy violence, which our President asked to “stand by”

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWUDL06Jyb0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    https://orinocotribune.com/proud-boys-the-extreme-right-group-spreading-violence-in-the-us/

    -https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep25259?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/19/proud-boys-convicted-attempt-assault-versus-antifa-activists/

    https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2020/09/kalamazoo-police-release-videos-from-proud-boys-protest-to-the-public.html

    One unarmed Proud Boy was standing by when he was murdered in cold blood. Maybe they should stand by and take measures to protect themselves. Does Antifa own Portland? It seems that they do since the Portland DA releases them after they’ve been arrested so that they can riot and attack police more.

    Has it been the Proud Boys who have been burning, vandalizing and murdering people in Portland and Seattle and elsewhere for the last 4 months? Or has that been Antifa and BLM? Biden still won’t condemn Antifa and BLM by name…but Trump must dance to Chris Wallace’s tune and condemn an organization that has been relatively quiet and law-abiding when compared to Antifa and BLM? Why didn’t Wallace ask the same of Biden?

    You are changing the subject. Why can’t Trump condemn groups that engage in political violence? It is an intentional softball that he used as a way to play footsie with extreme groups. 

    • #104
  15. Timothy Landon Inactive
    Timothy Landon
    @TimothyLandon

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Page 2 and following results for Proud Boy violence, which our President asked to “stand by”

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWUDL06Jyb0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    https://orinocotribune.com/proud-boys-the-extreme-right-group-spreading-violence-in-the-us/

    -https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep25259?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/19/proud-boys-convicted-attempt-assault-versus-antifa-activists/

    https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2020/09/kalamazoo-police-release-videos-from-proud-boys-protest-to-the-public.html

    One unarmed Proud Boy was standing by when he was murdered in cold blood. Maybe they should stand by and take measures to protect themselves. Does Antifa own Portland? It seems that they do since the Portland DA releases them after they’ve been arrested so that they can riot and attack police more.

    Has it been the Proud Boys who have been burning, vandalizing and murdering people in Portland and Seattle and elsewhere for the last 4 months? Or has that been Antifa and BLM? Biden still won’t condemn Antifa and BLM by name…but Trump must dance to Chris Wallace’s tune and condemn an organization that has been relatively quiet and law-abiding when compared to Antifa and BLM? Why didn’t Wallace ask the same of Biden?

    Brian,

    There seemed to be a consistent theme to all of these “confrontations” in the links. The Proud Boys marched and then a larger number of Antifa waited to attack them. Oddly, if they were “White Supremacists” they had no confederate flags. If they were “Fascists” they had no swastikas. On the other hand, “Antifa” is the name of a Bolshevik street fighting gang from the 1930s. They shout Marxist slogans and attack the police when there are no Proud Boys to attack. They regularly harass any ordinary citizen that is unfortunate enough to be surrounded by these psychotic bullies.

    It is very clear even from these articles in very left-wing publications that it is Antifa who is aggressively spreading violence.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    • #105
  16. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Maybe because pacifism in the face of rioting BLM terrorists is how you die quickly.

    Why can’t Trump condemn groups that engage in political violence?

    I believe he’s been condemning antifa and BLM for several months. Will you?

    • #106
  17. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    David Carroll (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Jon, I think you missed the most egregious statement by Trump when he refused to tell the Proud Boys to go to hell, but instead said that they should “stand down and stand-by.”

    Stand by? Stand by! There is no room for White Supremacists to stand by, where they can be recalled.

    @garyrobbins, since you still believe the “Fine People” hoax along with Wallace, there is nothing more Trump could say.

    Trump must quickly and irrevocably renounce his acceptance of “The Proud Boys.”

    Weren’t the proud boys founded by a black Cuban? Gary’s comment caused me to check out their web site, because I know so little about them. This is the list of their “core values” from the web site.

    Minimal Government
    Maximum Freedom
    Anti-Political Correctness
    Anti-Drug War
    Closed Borders
    Anti-Racial Guilt
    Anti-Racism
    Pro-Free Speech (1st Amendment)
    Pro-Gun Rights (2nd Amendment)
    Glorifying the Entrepreneur
    Venerating the Housewife
    Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism

    How many white supremacists do you know that have Anti-Racism as a core value?

    They get smeared as white supremacists because they’re on the right, nothing more.

    • #107
  18. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Page 2 and following results for Proud Boy violence, which our President asked to “stand by”

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWUDL06Jyb0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    https://orinocotribune.com/proud-boys-the-extreme-right-group-spreading-violence-in-the-us/

    -https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep25259?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/19/proud-boys-convicted-attempt-assault-versus-antifa-activists/

    https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2020/09/kalamazoo-police-release-videos-from-proud-boys-protest-to-the-public.html

    One unarmed Proud Boy was standing by when he was murdered in cold blood. Maybe they should stand by and take measures to protect themselves. Does Antifa own Portland? It seems that they do since the Portland DA releases them after they’ve been arrested so that they can riot and attack police more.

    Has it been the Proud Boys who have been burning, vandalizing and murdering people in Portland and Seattle and elsewhere for the last 4 months? Or has that been Antifa and BLM? Biden still won’t condemn Antifa and BLM by name…but Trump must dance to Chris Wallace’s tune and condemn an organization that has been relatively quiet and law-abiding when compared to Antifa and BLM? Why didn’t Wallace ask the same of Biden?

    Brian,

    There seemed to be a consistent theme to all of these “confrontations” in the links. The Proud Boys marched and then a larger number of Antifa waited to attack them. Oddly, if they were “White Supremacists” they had no confederate flags. If they were “Fascists” they had no swastikas. On the other hand, “Antifa” is the name of a Bolshevik street fighting gang from the 1930s. They shout Marxist slogans and attack the police when there are no Proud Boys to attack. They regularly harass any ordinary citizen that is unfortunate enough to be surrounded by these psychotic bullies.

    It is very clear even from these articles in very left-wing publications that it is Antifa who is aggressively spreading violence.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence? Blaming others for their actions does not make sense to me.

    Because they’d be hit on that cheek as well. 

    • #108
  19. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Stephen Richter (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Jon, I think you missed the most egregious statement by Trump when he refused to tell the Proud Boys to go to hell, but instead said that they should “stand down and stand-by.”

    Stand by? Stand by! There is no room for White Supremacists to stand by, where they can be recalled.

    what have proud boys ever done but fight Antifa thugs? What is not to like?

     

    I am willing to bet that Gary Robbins has no idea what the Proud Boys are or anything about them that didn’t come from some SPLC/DNC talking point.

    • #109
  20. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated  to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    • #110
  21. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Truth no longer matters. I mean, I still have friends who think that President Trump wants to lock up the gays! Just last week he was telling the UN that they needed to decriminalize homosexuality all across the globe. But hey, it doesn’t matter what he says. They can read his mind and his heart. I could explain that the President is fundamentally incapable of having unexpressed thoughts, but that wouldn’t matter. As far as they’re concerned, he’s anti-gay — no matter how many gay people he has in his administration. 

     

    • #111
  22. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Truth no longer matters. I mean, I still have friends who think that President Trump wants to lock up the gays! Just last week he was telling the UN that they needed to decriminalize homosexuality all across the globe. But hey, it doesn’t matter what he says. They can read his mind and his heart. I could explain that the President is fundamentally incapable of having unexpressed thoughts, but that wouldn’t matter. As far as they’re concerned, he’s anti-gay — no matter how many gay people he has in his administration.

     

    Those people might be the same fools who were shocked to learn that straight men don’t want to date “trans-women”. We are so screwed. 

    • #112
  23. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    If, when I was of a dating age, someone had told me I was transphobic for not wanting to date a person with a penis, I would have said “You’re damned right.”

    • #113
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hummmmm. The Proud Boys added Trump’s words on a sign for their group: “Stand Down, Stand By.”

    Are you troubled by Biden’s assertion that Antifa is simply an animating spirit, a concept, and not an organization? It seems more pertinent, given that the left has produced 98.6% of the urban unrest.

    It might be true in a meta sense, inasmuch as the leftist imperative to sow disorder transcends particular organizations, just as much as Jew-hatred and the desire for power can be Hamas or Hezbollah,. But I don’t think that’s what Biden meant.

    I don’t think he supports the people putting bricks through windows, but he’ll wave away criticism of the people who back the brick-throwers. The real threat is the right-wing fascist organizations, you know. The people Biden supports who use a clenched fist as their symbol? Mostly peaceful. Fine people.

    Biden could and should have been stronger on Antifa. But he didn’t instruct them to “Stand By.” That is very scary to me. “Stand by for what?”

    Of course Biden didn’t “instruct” Antifa to “stand by.”  Nobody on the left wants Antifa to “stand by.”

    • #114
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    C-SPAN debate vote (after 91,629 votes):

    This . . . surprises me. I see it more as evidence of the President’s unshakeable base rather than a response to his performance last night.

    Wouldn’t that be assuming that the 91,629 votes were all – or almost all – Trump supporters?

    • #115
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    There are three incumbent Presidents who failed to be re-elected.

    In 1992, George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton by 5.6%.

    In 1980, Jimmy Carter lost to Reagan by 9.7%.

    In 1932, Herbert Hoover lost to FDR by 17.7%.

    I believe that after this food fight of a debate, Trump will lose to Biden by more than 17.7%.

    No, not to Biden.  You predicted that Trump-Pence would lose to Klobuchar-Buttegieg.

    • #116
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Anyone want to talk about Biden’s proposed 500,000 vehicle recharging stations?

    Someone in the chat last night said that there are only 115,000 gas stations in the U.S. right now? They have been on decline since the 90s.

    But you need more charging stations than gas stations, because electric cars have limited range.

    • #117
  28. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    C-SPAN debate vote (after 91,629 votes):

    This . . . surprises me. I see it more as evidence of the President’s unshakeable base rather than a response to his performance last night.

    Wouldn’t that be assuming that the 91,629 votes were all – or almost all – Trump supporters?

    That’s me extrapolating that Donald Trump wins with 57.9% of the vote. Even if Lyin’ Biden gets the None of the Above and the Unsure vote, he still doesn’t win.

    • #118
  29. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    I got there much earlier.

    • #119
  30. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):
    im-why do the Proud Boys not turn the other cheek? Why do the choose to return violence with violence?

    LOL. I didn’t realize they were being nominated to be Saints.

    That comment is enough for me to relegate anything coming from you as pure nonsense.

    or comic relief? 

    • #120
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