On the Nature of Sandwiches: An Open Letter to Jonah Goldberg

 

Jonah, I enjoyed reading your column. As always, you have a style that makes the reader want to finish, no matter how much they disagree. It was well thought-out, though your logic was flawed. The biggest mistake you made was one of a closed mind.

Allow me to explain. You claim that sandwiches must meet extremely specific criteria. They are: two distinct slices of bread; proteins (meat), fats (cheese), or vegetables between the slices; eaten with parallel slices of bread on a plane perpendicular to the vector of acceleration due to gravity. This is a perfectly acceptable definition and has no doubt served you well in your life so far. But…

First, some set theory. The classic example we learn in middle school is this — just as all squares are rectangles not all rectangles are squares. Allow me to illustrate. The largest black circle is quadrilaterals or enclosed objects with four sides. The blue circle here represents all quadrilaterals that also have four straight sides and four right angles, or rectangles. Lastly, the green circle includes all rectangles whose sides are equal length or squares.

Your problem, Jonah, is that you’re considering the green circle to be inclusive of all sandwiches when it is just a tiny subset of the universe sandwiches have to offer. The true sandwich definition is this: carbohydrates + filling. Is your mind blown yet? This sandwich expanded universe (SEA) can be scary to some. After all, considering your grandmother’s blueberry pie, fried chicken, or your wedding cake sandwiches can be earthshaking. “But wedding cakes are increasingly a tray of cupcakes,” you say, confident that the SEA ends there.

You poor, poor soul.

Cupcakes are open-faced sandwiches (OFS).* I’ve attached this handy illustration, and will now explain why hot dogs are so contentious. The red circle in the below figure is your sandwich definition. The blue circle represents the SEA, and the black, OFS. How do OFS and SEA intersect you ask? That brings us to the hot dog.

You said it yourself:

…the way we eat a hot dog, with the visible meat facing skyward, you would need a dislocating jaw, like a viper or Sidney Blumenthal.

The wonderful hot dog exists at the intersection of the OFS and the SEA while adjacent to your outmoded (though technically correct) definition of a sandwich. These two sets should be known colloquially as “sandwich.”

“This is unprecedented!” you might want to say if you’ve managed to read this far without achieving a higher state of consciousness, or throwing your phone into a garbage disposal. “You can’t have a set named sandwich and have a subset also named sandwich!”

Gorilla gorilla gorilla. Bison bison bison.

Or, more commonly, the Western lowland gorilla and the Plains bison. Both animals that share a name between their subspecies, species, and genus. This precedent, while not as old as old Earl Sandwich’s allows, us to look at the entire history of man differently. Since the introduction of bread, our history is that of the sandwich. Looking at it this way, after dogs, the sandwich is man’s best friend.

Best,
Conrad

* Scott Lincicome’s nachos are also OFS

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  1. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Why is it impossible to starve in the desert if you don’t wear shoes? Because of the hot dogs there.

    • #61
  2. dnewlander Inactive
    dnewlander
    @dnewlander

    Be it resolved:

    No matter what the rest of the world thinks, a chicken breast, grilled, fried, poached, irradiated, whatever, in a bun, between two slices of bread, in a tortilla, whatever, is NOT a burger. It is a “chicken sandwich”.

    To be a burger, the protein or mushrooms pretending to be such must be ground and shaped into a disc. The name comes from the ground beef that was popularized in Hamburg. Chicken breasts are right out.

    I’m looking at you, Australia, New Zealand, and UK.

    • #62
  3. Simon Templar Member
    Simon Templar
    @

    Gumby Mark (View Comment):

    You have proven your case beyond a shadow of a doubt and with geometric logic. You had them at the strawberries, sir.

    You are painfully and miserably wrong good sir.  I have no idea what he meant by it, but he did not actually have them or anybody else for that matter until the bit about: 

    Gorilla gorilla gorilla. 

    Any doubters would have become true believers by the time he got around to telling us about:

    Bison bison bison.

     

     

    • #63
  4. Gumby Mark Coolidge
    Gumby Mark
    @GumbyMark

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Gumby Mark (View Comment):

    You have proven your case beyond a shadow of a doubt and with geometric logic. You had them at the strawberries, sir.

    You are painfully and miserably wrong good sir. I have no idea what he meant by it, but he did not actually have them or anybody else for that matter until the bit about:

    Gorilla gorilla gorilla.

    Any doubters would have become true believers by the time he got around to telling us about:

    Bison bison bison.

    Shouldn’t we get the opinion of @majormajormajormajor on this?

     

     

    • #64
  5. Umbra of Nex Inactive
    Umbra of Nex
    @UmbraFractus

    dnewlander (View Comment):

    Be it resolved:

    No matter what the rest of the world thinks, a chicken breast, grilled, fried, poached, irradiated, whatever, in a bun, between two slices of bread, in a tortilla, whatever, is NOT a burger. It is a “chicken sandwich”.

    To be a burger, the protein or mushrooms pretending to be such must be ground and shaped into a disc. The name comes from the ground beef that was popularized in Hamburg. Chicken breasts are right out.

    I’m looking at you, Australia, New Zealand, and UK.

    I 80% agree with this.

    The other 20% says that ground chicken makes a pretty good burger. (But not breast. Dark meat.)

    • #65
  6. dnewlander Inactive
    dnewlander
    @dnewlander

    Umbra of Nex (View Comment):

    dnewlander (View Comment):

    Be it resolved:

    No matter what the rest of the world thinks, a chicken breast, grilled, fried, poached, irradiated, whatever, in a bun, between two slices of bread, in a tortilla, whatever, is NOT a burger. It is a “chicken sandwich”.

    To be a burger, the protein or mushrooms pretending to be such must be ground and shaped into a disc. The name comes from the ground beef that was popularized in Hamburg. Chicken breasts are right out.

    I’m looking at you, Australia, New Zealand, and UK.

    I 80% agree with this.

    The other 20% says that ground chicken makes a pretty good burger. (But not breast. Dark meat.)

    Notice the operative word “ground” there?

    And, no, it does not. Yuck. Too dry.

    • #66
  7. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Moderator Note:

    [Hmm... The mods will have to think on it...]

    I think we are being entirely too lenient with the author of this post. I’ve never been one to call for ad hoc speech suppression, but what’s the point of even having such a thing as censorship if we can’t put it to use when sufficiently exercised?

    Being clever and cranking out impressive Venn diagrams only goes so far. A riot is a terrible thing to start, but I think it’s about time we started one.

    [ That isn’t a CoC violation, is it? ]

    • #67
  8. Simon Templar Member
    Simon Templar
    @

    Umbra of Nex (View Comment):
    (But not breast. Dark meat.)

    A friend tells me that both are yum.

    • #68
  9. Hank Rhody, Probably Mad Contributor
    Hank Rhody, Probably Mad
    @HankRhody

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):

    Richard Posner, is that you?

    “As is often the case, the court got the definition wrong,” Posner writes. “A sandwich does not have to have two slices of bread; it can have more than two (a club sandwich) and it can have just one (an open-faced sandwich). The slices of bread do not have to be thin, and the layer between them does not have to be thin either. The slices do not have to be slices of bread: a hamburger is regarded as a sandwich, and also a hot dog—and some people regard tacos and burritos as sandwiches, and a quesadilla is even more sandwich-like. Dictionaries are mazes in which judges are soon lost. A dictionary-centered textualism is hopeless.”

    George Mason University law professor David Bernstein picks up the sandwich debate in a post at the Volokh Conspiracy. “In my experience, ‘sandwich shops’ like Corner Bakery don’t sell hamburgers,” Bernstein writes, “and I’d be very surprised if someone offered me a sandwich and then handed me a hamburger. I’d be even more surprised to be offered a hot dog. Tacos, burritos, and quesadillas seem even further removed from what I think of as a ‘sandwich.’ ”

    I ordered a whopper once, and to forestall any “do you want fries with that” inquiries I said “Just the burger.” I received a whopper patty in between a bun. No fixings, no condiments, nothing. These days I’m specific to say “just the sandwich.”

    • #69
  10. Simon Templar Member
    Simon Templar
    @

    Hank Rhody, Probably Mad (View Comment):

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):

    Richard Posner, is that you?

    “As is often the case, the court got the definition wrong,” Posner writes. “A sandwich does not have to have two slices of bread; it can have more than two (a club sandwich) and it can have just one (an open-faced sandwich). The slices of bread do not have to be thin, and the layer between them does not have to be thin either. The slices do not have to be slices of bread: a hamburger is regarded as a sandwich, and also a hot dog—and some people regard tacos and burritos as sandwiches, and a quesadilla is even more sandwich-like. Dictionaries are mazes in which judges are soon lost. A dictionary-centered textualism is hopeless.”

    George Mason University law professor David Bernstein picks up the sandwich debate in a post at the Volokh Conspiracy. “In my experience, ‘sandwich shops’ like Corner Bakery don’t sell hamburgers,” Bernstein writes, “and I’d be very surprised if someone offered me a sandwich and then handed me a hamburger. I’d be even more surprised to be offered a hot dog. Tacos, burritos, and quesadillas seem even further removed from what I think of as a ‘sandwich.’ ”

    I ordered a whopper once, and to forestall any “do you want fries with that” inquiries I said “Just the burger.” I received a whopper patty in between a bun. No fixings, no condiments, nothing. These days I’m specific to say “just the sandwich.”

    good one

    • #70
  11. Steve Moriarty Inactive
    Steve Moriarty
    @SteveMoriarty

    The state of New York has not only ruled that hot dogs are sandwiches, but so are burritos, wraps, and seemingly anything else that includes bread.

    • #71
  12. Simon Templar Member
    Simon Templar
    @

    Steve Moriarty (View Comment):

    The state of New York has not only ruled that hot dogs are sandwiches, but so are burritos, wraps, and seemingly anything else that includes bread.

    well that’s that then.  next subject?

    • #72
  13. Hank Rhody, Probably Mad Contributor
    Hank Rhody, Probably Mad
    @HankRhody

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Steve Moriarty (View Comment):

    The state of New York has not only ruled that hot dogs are sandwiches, but so are burritos, wraps, and seemingly anything else that includes bread.

    well that’s that then. next subject?

    Next subject? We’re all subjects if we blithely submit to New Yorker tyranny like that! Nuts to the Empire State!

    • #73
  14. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Hank Rhody, Probably Mad (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Steve Moriarty (View Comment):

    The state of New York has not only ruled that hot dogs are sandwiches, but so are burritos, wraps, and seemingly anything else that includes bread.

    well that’s that then. next subject?

    Next subject? We’re all subjects if we blithely submit to New Yorker tyranny like that! Nuts to the Empire State!

    More Yankee imperialism.

    • #74
  15. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    dnewlander (View Comment):

    Be it resolved:

    No matter what the rest of the world thinks, a chicken breast, grilled, fried, poached, irradiated, whatever, in a bun, between two slices of bread, in a tortilla, whatever, is NOT a burger. It is a “chicken sandwich”.

    To be a burger, the protein or mushrooms pretending to be such must be ground and shaped into a disc. The name comes from the ground beef that was popularized in Hamburg. Chicken breasts are right out.

    I’m looking at you, Australia, New Zealand, and UK.

    Wendy’s might quibble with the “disc” limitation because of their square patties.

    • #75
  16. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    I self-identify as a vegan when the situation calls for it.

    I self-identify as a smokin’-hot studmuffin, but my wife refuses to recognize my claim . . .

    Sue her yet?

    Not if she self-identifies as Sandra Bullock . . .

    • #76
  17. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    Wendy’s might quibble with the “disc” limitation because of their square patties.

    I’ll bet it’s been 30 years since I ate at a Wendy’s.  What are they like?

    • #77
  18. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    • #78
  19. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I think we are being entirely too lenient with the author of this post. I’ve never been one to call for ad hoc speech suppression, but what’s the point of even having such a thing as censorship if we can’t put it to use when sufficiently exercised?

    Being clever and cranking out impressive Venn diagrams only goes so far. A riot is a terrible thing to start, but I think it’s about time we started one.

    [ That isn’t a CoC violation, is it? ]

    Henry,

    Lies, lies, I tried to run the site properly by the book but they fought me at every turn. Hot Dogs, Sandwiches, Strawberries, it never ends. A man tries to use a little geometric logic and set theory but the crew just wanted to walk around with their shirt tails hanging out. Let them!

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #79
  20. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    Wendy’s might quibble with the “disc” limitation because of their square patties.

    I’ll bet it’s been 30 years since I ate at a Wendy’s. What are they like?

    Serviceable when needing a quick bite on the Interstate.   Not as good as Culver’s, better than any other fast food hamburger.

    • #80
  21. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Umbra of Nex (View Comment):
    (But not breast. Dark meat.)

    A friend tells me that both are yum.

    Friend goes both ways?

    • #81
  22. Conrad Inactive
    Conrad
    @PeteTheCat

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    we made it bois

    • #82
  23. Conrad Inactive
    Conrad
    @PeteTheCat

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Conrad, is a meat ravioli a sandwich?

    of course

    • #83
  24. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Conrad (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    we made it bois

    Spoiler alert: This post will be a topic of discussion on tomorrow’ s episode of GLoP. 

    • #84
  25. Conrad Inactive
    Conrad
    @PeteTheCat

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Conrad (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    we made it bois

    Spoiler alert: This post will be a topic of discussion on tomorrow’ s episode of GLoP.

    Oh good. Now that I have their attention, I can write a piece about Gennessee Beer that they mentioned in this episode

    http://ricochet.com/podcast/goldberg-long-podhoretz/harry-potter-and-the-curse-of-glop/

    • #85
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