Normalizing Pedophilia

 

After studying the trend toward corrupting our children with transgender propaganda, I didn’t think there was a way to intensify my outrage about the distortions of gender and sexuality in this country.

I was wrong.

We have a queer (his own label) human being, Allyn Walker, who is an assistant professor at Old Dominion University, who has decided to reduce the incriminations against people who “like children,” but have shown restraint in their own behavior. He is proposing that pedophiles not be labeled so negatively, and that the term, “minor attracting persons” (MAPS) be used instead:

Walker is the author of the book ‘A Long, Dark Shadow: Minor Attracted People and Their Pursuit of Dignity,’ which challenges ‘widespread assumptions that persons who are preferentially attracted to minors—often referred to as ‘pedophiles’—are necessarily also predators and sex offenders, this book takes readers into the lives of non-offending minor-attracted persons (MAPs).’

I find this effort unconscionable. And yet in these days where every norm is subject to distortions, condemnation, and irreverence, we shouldn’t be surprised. Our world of right and wrong, good and bad, moral and immoral has been turned upside down, and too many people now believe that any people who are “oppressed” are entitled to special treatment.

But they are not.

Spencer Lindquist who wrote the linked article in the Federalist made this powerful point:

Yet again we witness an instance of the left siding with the oppressor while pretending to advocate for the victim, this time under the guise of academic inquiry. One has to wonder if Walker has ever considered that our sympathies should lie not with pedophiles who don’t appreciate being called what they are but instead with their victims. Walker’s book intends to help pedophiles pursue dignity. How does a child robbed of his or her innocence pursue his or her sense of dignity?

The magnitude of the problem is not well understood. In addition, the long-term effects on children are staggering. And then there are the international organizations that have been openly supporting child sexual abuse.

There has been a petition posted, protesting this professor’s actions and calling for him to be fired. Given the times, I’m not hopeful for dismissal; to date, 1,500 people have signed.

Old Dominion University released the following statement regarding Walker:

An academic community plays a valuable role in the quest for knowledge. A vital part of this is being willing to consider scientific and other empirical data that may involve controversial issues and perspectives. Following a recent interview that gained national attention, Dr. Allyn Walker has released the following statement.

‘I want to be clear: child sexual abuse is an inexcusable crime. As an assistant professor of sociology and criminal justice, the goal of my research is to prevent crime. My work is informed by my past experience and advocacy as a social worker counseling victims. I embarked on this research in hopes of gaining understanding of a group that, previously, has not been studied in order to identify ways to protect children.’

Following recent social media activity and direct outreach to the institution, it is important to share that Old Dominion, as a caring and inclusive community, does not endorse or promote crimes against children or any form of criminal activity.

I expect that everyone will be reassured by the ODU statement.

The ongoing efforts to ruin the lives of our children are exhausting, and I see no end in sight. The effort to normalize pedophilia in any way is repugnant. We can only hope that someday, some time, wisdom prevails.

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  1. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    BDB (View Comment):
    CP is TG?  Is that new?

    I think it’s in the interview linked. I think she had earlier identified as lesbian.

    • #91
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    In other words, I think pedophilia and homosexuality are apples and oranges in many important respects, whatever may be their similarities in terms of formative causes.

    I agree with your opinion on homosexuality, too, so maybe we’re both outliers. For any who think they disagree, I’d suggest you read Hank’s comment carefully for you attack.

    • #92
  3. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    BDB (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Camille Paglia, feminist and transgender, has claimed that every gay person she has known has had some sort of traumat in his/her life.

    https://www.voiceofthevoiceless.info/lesbian-feminist-camille-paglia-sexual-orientation-is-fluid-and-can-change

     

    CP is TG? Is that new?

    You know, I’ve always found Camille Paglia to be an interesting, entertaining, and provocative person. Having said that, I also think she’s a nut, and sometimes preposterous and over the top.

    She’s expressed more support for pedophilia than I think any sensible person should (though she’s walked some of it back). She describes herself as transsexual, by which I gather she means that she has always experienced gender dysphoria, never considering herself female or wholly female. She doesn’t think she’s a man, doesn’t refer to herself with peculiar pronouns, and hasn’t, to the best of my knowledge, pursued any kind of sexual modifications. She’s been critical of the broad trans movement, apparently believing (as I believe) that it’s a farce and a fad.

    Her writing is (my opinion) sometimes delightful, sometimes absurd, and often pretentious.

    I like her, but I stopped taking her very seriously a long time ago.

    • #93
  4. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Stina (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    Maybe but I also think that is a society thing. There seems to be a fair amount of the other way with female teachers and young boys. But when it happens it seems to be swept under the carpet. Especially in schools.

    I think it gets sensationalized because it’s so rare compared to men and boys.

    At some level we expect males to experience it differently from females – for it to be less traumatising and more likely to be a good experience. (I think incorrectly.) Stems from how we see men and women.

    I think, for post-pubescent boys, the historical treatment of cougars and the allure for boys was sexual experience without the risk of supporting a bastard. Whether it was a prostitute or a married woman who’s begat bastard could be passed off as her husband’s offspring, older women are a chance at less risky sexual experience where virginal daughters are off limits until the wedding bells ring.

    As a culture thing, it’s been going on for hundreds of years.

    Yup.  Different level of wrong, but still wrong.

    • #94
  5. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Are there really any conclusive correlative studies that demonstrate that maternal sex hormones influence fetal sex drives?

    “Conclusive” is a loaded word in the context of science, where everything is always open to challenge.

    But the short answer is: yes. There’s a lot of research in prenatal and childhood endocrinology that supports the claim that testosterone exposure in utero is a strong predictor of adult heterosexuality/homosexuality.

    That’s why I didn’t say “proven”. “Supports” is equally out of place; supporting a hypothesis is in no way even correlative.

    Anyway, are these studies of actual human endocrinology studying actual babies in utero and following up 20 years later? Because I’d be interested to read them.

    Again, yes. There are long-term studies that support a strong genetic/endocrinological linkage between in utero testosterone exposure and adult homosexuality.

    • #95
  6. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    In other words, I think pedophilia and homosexuality are apples and oranges in many important respects, whatever may be their similarities in terms of formative causes.

     

    I agree with your opinion on homosexuality, too, so maybe we’re both outliers. For any who think they disagaree, I’d suggest you read Hank’s comment carefully for you attack.

    Apples.  Oranges.  Is this really the right metaphor to pursue?

    • #96
  7. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):
    Ask any counselor who’s dealt with these individuals and they will tell you that the universal shared characteristic of the homosexual or sexually perverse is early childhood (usually sexual) trauma.

    I suspect that isn’t true.

    I’ve spoken with many trauma counselors about it, many are friends.

    Is it possible that “trauma counselors” might be dealing with a subset of the homosexual population that is particularly likely to have experienced… trauma… and so may not necessarily be representative?

    The population isn’t that big. And all the ones I’ve known have similar experiences.

    Since he’s been mentioned, Milo’s experience was pederasty grooming – the entire essence of NAMBLA.

    You don’t want to link them, but homosexuality has a very strong connection to pedophilia and pederasty (even if not all homosexuals are like that).

    • #97
  8. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    I like Paglia as well, but haven’t heard anything in 15 years or so.  War on Boys ( Ch Summers?) or something similar if that’s not her.  So, maybe past the sell-by date.  I dunno.  Hope she hasn’t gone down some disappointing rabbit warren.

    • #98
  9. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    BDB (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    In other words, I think pedophilia and homosexuality are apples and oranges in many important respects, whatever may be their similarities in terms of formative causes.

     

    I agree with your opinion on homosexuality, too, so maybe we’re both outliers. For any who think they disagaree, I’d suggest you read Hank’s comment carefully for you attack.

    Apples. Oranges. Is this really the right metaphor to pursue?

    Bananas all the way down.

    • #99
  10. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    BDB (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    In other words, I think pedophilia and homosexuality are apples and oranges in many important respects, whatever may be their similarities in terms of formative causes.

     

    I agree with your opinion on homosexuality, too, so maybe we’re both outliers. For any who think they disagaree, I’d suggest you read Hank’s comment carefully for you attack.

    Apples. Oranges. Is this really the right metaphor to pursue?

    LOLing out loud. Yes, fruit might have been a poor metaphorical choice. My bad. ;)

    Incidentally, here’s an interesting factoid: it seems that, while homosexuality is present in other mammalian species as well, it is only in humans and sheep that exclusively homosexual behavior is encountered. In other mammals, homosexuality is expressed in the context of bisexual behavior, which is apparently pretty common in lots of species.

    I will add, simply because I believe it’s true and interesting, that bisexual behavior is far more common in human females than in human males, including in a significant percentage of human females who identify as heterosexual. In fact, it’s a little bit amusing (to me, at least) how many human females in apparently monogamous same-sex relationships nonetheless self-identify as primarily heterosexual.

    • #100
  11. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Are there really any conclusive correlative studies that demonstrate that maternal sex hormones influence fetal sex drives? I’ve read for decades articles speculating this as a cause but, before the normalization of homosexuality, homosexuals argued against this stating that this concept would make homosexuality a disorder. And consequently I’ve never read of any corroborating studies (though I haven’t been paying close attention for a few years).

    Is this science, or an accepted pop-biology scientific myth?

    Even if homosexuality is genetic, it’s still a disorder: a genetic disorder. Not like there’s only one.

    But I’m serious. This is to my understanding just a suggestion without any human studies to support it. Even if it’s demonstrated in mice, would they be using a protocol that increases male hormone levels to the level that it’s speculated to be in pregnant human mothers, or even demonstrated to be in pregnant human mothers (though I really doubt any data exists for this)? We know that the forming baby in utero controls the production and secretion of sex hormones: what is going on in utero that produces this effect? And at what stage of the baby’s development is it significant?

    Is there really science on this? Or has everyone been snookered? Like any other highly politicized science, for example Global Warming.

    Well, the main point to me at least is that it doesn’t matter whether the disorder is caused by genetics or in-utero hormones. It’s not some kind of A-OK “born that way” if it’s genetic and a “disorder” only if it comes from in-utero hormones or something else. No matter what the cause, it’s a disorder.

    If it’s normal, then it’s not a disorder.

    And even so, what are the studies showing that pedophilia is correlated with maternal hormone levels?  If anyone is going to talk science, where’s the science?

    • #101
  12. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Incidentally, here’s an interesting factoid: it seems that, while homosexuality is present in other mammalian species as well, it is only in humans and sheep that exclusively homosexual behavior is encountered. In other mammals, homosexuality is expressed in the context of bisexual behavior, which is apparently pretty common in lots of species.

    I hardly think using the animal kingdom where some animals may just get randy with anything if their senses are broken in some attempt to complete his biological imperative to successfully procreate, you don’t have that issue with human men.

    • #102
  13. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Incidentally, here’s an interesting factoid: it seems that, while homosexuality is present in other mammalian species as well, it is only in humans and sheep that exclusively homosexual behavior is encountered. In other mammals, homosexuality is expressed in the context of bisexual behavior, which is apparently pretty common in lots of species.

    I hardly think using the animal kingdom where some animals may just get randy with anything if their senses are broken in some attempt to complete his biological imperative to successfully procreate, you don’t have that issue with human men.

    Are you saying that there’s not a significant number of human men who will happily have sex with either men or women?

    There are a lot of differences between human and animal sexuality. I’m not at all confident that this is one of them.

    • #103
  14. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Flicker (View Comment):
    And even so, what are the studies showing that pedophilia is correlated with maternal hormone levels?  If anyone is going to talk science, where’s the science?

    They can’t even connect Hyperemesis gravidarum  to hormones in pregnancy.

    • #104
  15. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Are you saying that there’s not a significant number of human men who will happily have sex with either men or women?

    There are a lot of differences between human and animal sexuality. I’m not at all confident that this is one of them.

    I’m saying the animal kingdom is not humans because humans have reasoning, values, and morals. Animals do not.

    • #105
  16. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Flicker (View Comment):
    what are the studies showing that pedophilia is correlated with maternal hormone levels?

    I’m not aware of any, though I admit I haven’t gone out looking.

    But whether or not such studies exist, it wouldn’t change my sense of how we should deal with pedophilia. I believe that the attraction pedophiles feel is sincere; they aren’t faking a sexual interest in children. That interest should continue to be stigmatized, even if there’s a cruelty in that; acting on that interest should be harshly punished. I don’t see any safe and sensible alternative.

    • #106
  17. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Are you saying that there’s not a significant number of human men who will happily have sex with either men or women?

    There are a lot of differences between human and animal sexuality. I’m not at all confident that this is one of them.

    I’m saying the animal kingdom is not humans because humans have reasoning, values, and morals. Animals do not.

    I certainly agree with that, and I wouldn’t try to use animals as an example in any discussion of morality. But sexual proclivity is a biological thing: both humans (which possess morality) and animals (which don’t) experience sexual drives. So it seems that there might be some room to consider common roots to sexuality in humans and other mammals.

    (And, in fact, human sexuality and animal sexuality have a lot in common, evolutionary speaking. Hardly surprising.)

    • #107
  18. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    What’s wrong with liking feet?

    • #108
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    What’s wrong with liking feet?

    Liking feet is okay.

    Licking feet, not so much.

    • #109
  20. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Susan,

    This is the kind of topic that it’s almost impossible to actually discuss without things spiraling out of control.

    The point being that same-sex attraction, while not normal (nor as common as Hollywood would like us to believe), is nonetheless driven by biology. Whatever one thinks of homosexual behavior, I think any moderately reflective person should accept that the attraction experienced by homosexual people is real, and no more a choice for them than is heterosexual attraction for the rest of us. Condemning people for feeling something seems, to me, unreasonable.

    Which brings us to the ugly topic of your post. Research suggests that a strong sexual attraction to children is rare, but not extraordinarily so: it may afflict one or two percent of the adult male population. I don’t know what the research says about possible biological causes for this attraction, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is eventually traced to developmental abnormalities similar or analogous to those experienced by people who feel same-sex attraction.

    So here’s where it gets challenging for people who bother to think about biology and the feelings people may experience despite perhaps wishing that they did not.

    I think it is essential that we criminalize and stigmatize the expression of any adult sexual interest in children. This includes both acting on that interest and catering to it through pornography. It gets difficult when discussing literature (a la Lolita), given our strong protection of free expression: we can stigmatize it, but probably not criminalize it (nor, I think, should we).

    I do think that “pedophilia” should remain the term in popular use, with all the stigma that deserves and brings.

    Seems mostly reasonable, with the caveat that the term pedophilia be reserved for what it actually is, not some mishmash of “sexual attraction towards anyone I think is younger than me or is otherwise ‘creepy.’”

    I think this line of thought is uniquely western and perversely introspective. Do we care if Ted Bundy couldn’t help feeling the way he did? Or that maybe he couldn’t control himself? Would we spend time splitting hairs by asking whether he should be condemned for merely wanting to strangle women? Who cares? The only legitimate inquiry along these lines would be for people who study abnormal psychology. In a normal world, it would be of no political interest. This is the kind of thinking that seeps into the mainstream and the law when a society has so much free time on its hand that it descends into navel gazing.

    • #110
  21. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Kozak (View Comment):

    By the way.

    Pedophilia is like an infectious disease. Almost 100% of pedophiles were abused as children.

    But “just born that way”works better when you are pretending you’re fighting for civil rights (example: see all the other letters in the LGBTQIAetc.)

    • #111
  22. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Interesting article:

    https://amp.9news.com.au/article/42a85591-d1b8-4914-a766-10de5e279b62

    • #112
  23. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Susan Quinn:

    Old Dominion University released the following statement regarding Walker:

    An academic community plays a valuable role in the quest for knowledge. A vital part of this is being willing to consider scientific and other empirical data that may involve controversial issues and perspectives. Following a recent interview that gained national attention, Dr. Allyn Walker has released the following statement.

    You know who’s always citing “scientific and other empirical data that may involve controversial issues and perspectives”?

    Critics of evolutionary theory, global warming theory, Covid vaccines, and transgenderism, and also people who question the legitimacy of the election.

    When they make thoughtful empirical arguments, you think they enjoy the support of their universities?

    • #113
  24. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    What’s wrong with liking feet?

    Podophile.  What a difference a letter makes.

    • #114
  25. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    W Bob (View Comment):
    The only legitimate inquiry along these lines would be for people who study abnormal psychology. In a normal world, it would be of no political interest. This is the kind of thinking that seeps into the mainstream and the law when a society has so much free time on its hand that it descends into navel gazing.

    I don’t think the distinction matters where sex reserved for marriage is no longer the socially accepted norm.

    • #115
  26. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    What’s wrong with liking feet?

    Liking feet is okay.

    Licking feet, not so much.

    “And the dog seems to like it.”

    • #116
  27. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Susan Quinn: He is proposing that pedophiles not be labeled so negatively, and that the term, “minor attracting persons” (MAPS) be used instead:

    Attracted?

    • #117
  28. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    What’s wrong with liking feet?

    Podophile. What a difference a letter makes.

    Tell that to the pedestrians.

    • #118
  29. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: He is proposing that pedophiles not be labeled so negatively, and that the term, “minor attracting persons” (MAPS) be used instead:

    Attracted?

    Concur.

    • #119
  30. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    what are the studies showing that pedophilia is correlated with maternal hormone levels?

    I’m not aware of any, though I admit I haven’t gone out looking.

    But whether or not such studies exist, it wouldn’t change my sense of how we should deal with pedophilia. I believe that the attraction pedophiles feel is sincere; they aren’t faking a sexual interest in children. That interest should continue to be stigmatized, even if there’s a cruelty in that; acting on that interest should be harshly punished. I don’t see any safe and sensible alternative.

    Similarly, there is lots of evidence of genetic link to addiction. That doesn’t make addiction OK. Having desires is no excuse for acting on them.

    • #120
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