Normalizing Pedophilia

 

After studying the trend toward corrupting our children with transgender propaganda, I didn’t think there was a way to intensify my outrage about the distortions of gender and sexuality in this country.

I was wrong.

We have a queer (his own label) human being, Allyn Walker, who is an assistant professor at Old Dominion University, who has decided to reduce the incriminations against people who “like children,” but have shown restraint in their own behavior. He is proposing that pedophiles not be labeled so negatively, and that the term, “minor attracting persons” (MAPS) be used instead:

Walker is the author of the book ‘A Long, Dark Shadow: Minor Attracted People and Their Pursuit of Dignity,’ which challenges ‘widespread assumptions that persons who are preferentially attracted to minors—often referred to as ‘pedophiles’—are necessarily also predators and sex offenders, this book takes readers into the lives of non-offending minor-attracted persons (MAPs).’

I find this effort unconscionable. And yet in these days where every norm is subject to distortions, condemnation, and irreverence, we shouldn’t be surprised. Our world of right and wrong, good and bad, moral and immoral has been turned upside down, and too many people now believe that any people who are “oppressed” are entitled to special treatment.

But they are not.

Spencer Lindquist who wrote the linked article in the Federalist made this powerful point:

Yet again we witness an instance of the left siding with the oppressor while pretending to advocate for the victim, this time under the guise of academic inquiry. One has to wonder if Walker has ever considered that our sympathies should lie not with pedophiles who don’t appreciate being called what they are but instead with their victims. Walker’s book intends to help pedophiles pursue dignity. How does a child robbed of his or her innocence pursue his or her sense of dignity?

The magnitude of the problem is not well understood. In addition, the long-term effects on children are staggering. And then there are the international organizations that have been openly supporting child sexual abuse.

There has been a petition posted, protesting this professor’s actions and calling for him to be fired. Given the times, I’m not hopeful for dismissal; to date, 1,500 people have signed.

Old Dominion University released the following statement regarding Walker:

An academic community plays a valuable role in the quest for knowledge. A vital part of this is being willing to consider scientific and other empirical data that may involve controversial issues and perspectives. Following a recent interview that gained national attention, Dr. Allyn Walker has released the following statement.

‘I want to be clear: child sexual abuse is an inexcusable crime. As an assistant professor of sociology and criminal justice, the goal of my research is to prevent crime. My work is informed by my past experience and advocacy as a social worker counseling victims. I embarked on this research in hopes of gaining understanding of a group that, previously, has not been studied in order to identify ways to protect children.’

Following recent social media activity and direct outreach to the institution, it is important to share that Old Dominion, as a caring and inclusive community, does not endorse or promote crimes against children or any form of criminal activity.

I expect that everyone will be reassured by the ODU statement.

The ongoing efforts to ruin the lives of our children are exhausting, and I see no end in sight. The effort to normalize pedophilia in any way is repugnant. We can only hope that someday, some time, wisdom prevails.

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  1. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Kozak (View Comment):

    By the way.

    Pedophilia is like an infectious disease. Almost 100% of pedophiles were abused as children.

    Which, if true, would argue against a biological basis — unless childhood abuse was from a father and the trait was strongly genetic.

    • #31
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Kozak (View Comment):

    By the way.

    Pedophilia is like an infectious disease. Almost 100% of pedophiles were abused as children.

    So do you disagree with @oldbathos‘ understanding that it is “hardwired”? That wouldn’t be true if they were responding to childhood abuse, @kozak.

    • #32
  3. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    By the way.

    Pedophilia is like an infectious disease. Almost 100% of pedophiles were abused as children.

    So do you disagree with @ oldbathos‘ understanding that it is “hardwired”? That wouldn’t be true if they were responding to childhood abuse, @ kozak.

    Let me suggest that “hardwired” need not mean genetic, nor even biologically abnormal in utero. Young children who experience contact deprivation for the first few months of their lives, for example in some of the awful Eastern European orphanages, may develop attachment disorders that are profound and effectively “hardwired.” I could imagine that some other kinds of childhood trauma might have a similarly permanent effect. (But just speculating here, since I know little about it.)

    • #33
  4. aardo vozz Member
    aardo vozz
    @aardovozz

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: We can only hope that someday, some time, wisdom prevails.

    Maybe when the new civilization arises from the ashes of what we have let die.

    A little too optimistic, if you ask me.

    • #34
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Susan,

    This is the kind of topic that it’s almost impossible to actually discuss without things spiraling out of control.

    Normal human sexual attraction is heterosexual. The vast majority of humans experience that as their overwhelmingly primary, and often only, sexual attraction. There’s ample evidence to believe that this is largely determined by biology — specifically, by testosterone levels during prenatal development. Males who experience low levels of testosterone while in the womb are much more likely to experience same-sex attraction as adults; similarly, females who experience high levels of testosterone while in the womb are more likely to experience same-sex attraction as adults.

    The point being that same-sex attraction, while not normal (nor as common as Hollywood would like us to believe), is nonetheless driven by biology. Whatever one thinks of homosexual behavior, I think any moderately reflective person should accept that the attraction experienced by homosexual people is real, and no more a choice for them than is heterosexual attraction for the rest of us. Condemning people for feeling something seems, to me, unreasonable.

    Which brings us to the ugly topic of your post. Research suggests that a strong sexual attraction to children is rare, but not extraordinarily so: it may afflict one or two percent of the adult male population. I don’t know what the research says about possible biological causes for this attraction, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is eventually traced to developmental abnormalities similar or analogous to those experienced by people who feel same-sex attraction.

    So here’s where it gets challenging for people who bother to think about biology and the feelings people may experience despite perhaps wishing that they did not.

    I think it is essential that we criminalize and stigmatize the expression of any adult sexual interest in children. This includes both acting on that interest and catering to it through pornography. It gets difficult when discussing literature (a la Lolita), given our strong protection of free expression: we can stigmatize it, but probably not criminalize it (nor, I think, should we).

    I do think that “pedophilia” should remain the term in popular use, with all the stigma that deserves and brings.

    Seems mostly reasonable, with the caveat that the term pedophilia be reserved for what it actually is, not some mishmash of “sexual attraction towards anyone I think is younger than me or is otherwise ‘creepy.'”

    • #35
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Let me suggest that “hardwired” need not mean genetic, nor even biologically abnormal in utero. Young children who experience contact deprivation for the first few months of their lives, for example in some of the awful Eastern European orphanages, may develop attachment disorders that are profound and effectively “hardwired.” I could imagine that some other kinds of childhood trauma might have a similarly permanent effect. (But just speculating here, since I know little about it.)

    I’m not sure that’s true, Hank. My understanding of hardwired is genetic in origin. Those poor kids with attachment disorders suffer from effects of the environment (or the absence of needed contact). I would see that as environmental.

    • #36
  7. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: My work is informed by my past experience

    Sounds like someone likely was abused was attractive to an older man at an early age

    She’s still attractive now. Or do I get her sex wrong?

    Which “she” are you talking about? If it’s the professor, I believe “they” are a “he.”

    Oh. No, I was talking about the woman you have pictured in your post. I assumed she was the professor involved.

    He is.

    Get out.  Really?

    • #37
  8. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    you have to love their mottos

    “sex before eight, or else it’s too late.”

     

     

    • #38
  9. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Seems mostly reasonable, with the caveat that the term pedophilia be reserved for what it actually is, not some mishmash of “sexual attraction towards anyone I think is younger than me or is otherwise ‘creepy.’”

    See comment #11.

    • #39
  10. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    By the way.

    Pedophilia is like an infectious disease. Almost 100% of pedophiles were abused as children.

    Which, if true, would argue against a biological basis — unless childhood abuse was from a father and the trait was strongly genetic.

    Are fathers the ones who usually sexually abuse boys?  I hadn’t ever heard that.  I read that it was usually a close friend of the family or a trusted professional.

    • #40
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    you have to love their mottos

    “sex before eight, or else it’s too late.”

     

    The new motto of the North American Man-Boy Lincoln Project?

    • #41
  12. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Are fathers the ones who usually sexually abuse boys?  I hadn’t ever heard that.  I read that it was usually a close friend of the family or a trusted professional.

    You are correct, I believe. But almost all pedophiles are males.

    • #42
  13. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    aardo vozz (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: We can only hope that someday, some time, wisdom prevails.

    Maybe when the new civilization arises from the ashes of what we have let die.

    A little too optimistic, if you ask me.

    I did say “Maybe.” 😜

    • #43
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Let me suggest that “hardwired” need not mean genetic, nor even biologically abnormal in utero. Young children who experience contact deprivation for the first few months of their lives, for example in some of the awful Eastern European orphanages, may develop attachment disorders that are profound and effectively “hardwired.” I could imagine that some other kinds of childhood trauma might have a similarly permanent effect. (But just speculating here, since I know little about it.)

    I’m not sure that’s true, Hank. My understanding of hardwired is genetic in origin. Those poor kids with attachment disorders suffer from effects of the environment (or the absence of needed contact). I would see that as environmental.

    There are plenty of things that can “hard-wire” developing fetuses/infants besides their basic genetics.  The in-utero experience can do it too, as mentioned by someone’s earlier comments, exposure to different levels of hormones, etc.

    Such things appear on TV occasionally too.

    (also NSFW I suppose)

     

    • #44
  15. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Let me suggest that “hardwired” need not mean genetic, nor even biologically abnormal in utero. Young children who experience contact deprivation for the first few months of their lives, for example in some of the awful Eastern European orphanages, may develop attachment disorders that are profound and effectively “hardwired.” I could imagine that some other kinds of childhood trauma might have a similarly permanent effect. (But just speculating here, since I know little about it.)

    I’m not sure that’s true, Hank. My understanding of hardwired is genetic in origin. Those poor kids with attachment disorders suffer from effects of the environment (or the absence of needed contact). I would see that as environmental.

    Hardwiring should be considered a part of the influence on a biologically growing brain, growing in structural organization and early neural networks as well.

    • #45
  16. aardo vozz Member
    aardo vozz
    @aardovozz

    Arahant (View Comment):

    aardo vozz (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: We can only hope that someday, some time, wisdom prevails.

    Maybe when the new civilization arises from the ashes of what we have let die.

    A little too optimistic, if you ask me.

    I did say “Maybe.” 😜

    Like I said, a little too optimistic.

    • #46
  17. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Let me suggest that “hardwired” need not mean genetic, nor even biologically abnormal in utero. Young children who experience contact deprivation for the first few months of their lives, for example in some of the awful Eastern European orphanages, may develop attachment disorders that are profound and effectively “hardwired.” I could imagine that some other kinds of childhood trauma might have a similarly permanent effect. (But just speculating here, since I know little about it.)

    I’m not sure that’s true, Hank. My understanding of hardwired is genetic in origin. Those poor kids with attachment disorders suffer from effects of the environment (or the absence of needed contact). I would see that as environmental.

    I guess it’s a matter of terminology, Susan. My thinking is that real neurological changes can occur during development and persist throughout life, and that not all of those changes are genetic, nor prenatal. I’m happy to accept “hardwired” as purely genetic, but then I guess I’ll want another term for things that are more than culturally conditioned but less than genetically determined.

    I recently finished Carole Hooven’s book Testosterone and was impressed by the complexity of human sexual development, both during gestation and in the years prior to and through puberty. Add to that the continuing neurological development of the brain into the mid-20s (particularly for young men), and I think the picture of what is and isn’t a real, physiological feature becomes complicated and nuanced.

     

    • #47
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Seems mostly reasonable, with the caveat that the term pedophilia be reserved for what it actually is, not some mishmash of “sexual attraction towards anyone I think is younger than me or is otherwise ‘creepy.’”

    See comment #11.

    Yes, factually correct, but the problem is that the term gets mis-applied in situations that someone just thinks are “creepy” such as Roy Moore.

    • #48
  19. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    The point being that same-sex attraction, while not normal (nor as common as Hollywood would like us to believe), is nonetheless driven by biology. Whatever one thinks of homosexual behavior, I think any moderately reflective person should accept that the attraction experienced by homosexual people is real, and no more a choice for them than is heterosexual attraction for the rest of us. Condemning people for feeling something seems, to me, unreasonable.

    I would be more sanguine about this assertion if it was also acknowledged by the “born this way” crowd that it is also MADE through abuse (both psychological and physical) and trauma.

    • #49
  20. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    I guess it’s a matter of terminology, Susan. My thinking is that real neurological changes can occur during development and persist throughout life, and that not all of those changes are genetic, nor prenatal. I’m happy to accept “hardwired” as purely genetic, but then I guess I’ll want another term for things that are more than culturally conditioned but less than genetically determined.

    I apologize. The dictionary definition is “genetic or innate.”

    • #50
  21. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: My work is informed by my past experience

    Sounds like someone likely was abused was attractive to an older man at an early age

    She’s still attractive now. Or do I get her sex wrong?

    Which “she” are you talking about? If it’s the professor, I believe “they” are a “he.”

    Oh. No, I was talking about the woman you have pictured in your post. I assumed she was the professor involved.

    He is.

    Definitely a she however she identifies.

    • #51
  22. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    The point being that same-sex attraction, while not normal (nor as common as Hollywood would like us to believe), is nonetheless driven by biology. Whatever one thinks of homosexual behavior, I think any moderately reflective person should accept that the attraction experienced by homosexual people is real, and no more a choice for them than is heterosexual attraction for the rest of us. Condemning people for feeling something seems, to me, unreasonable.

    I would be more sanguine about this assertion if it was also acknowledged by the “born this way” crowd that it is also MADE through abuse (both psychological and physical) and trauma.

    Stina, I’m sure that’s true as well, though I think the evidence for a biological basis is pretty strong.

    In any discussion of human behavior, it’s appropriate to include words like “usually,” “with exceptions,” etc. Because there are exceptions to pretty much everything. It’s just tedious to say it over and over, so I hope people understand that one can speak in generalities as long as they don’t mischaracterize what is and isn’t common, normal, etc.

    • #52
  23. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    I guess it’s a matter of terminology, Susan. My thinking is that real neurological changes can occur during development and persist throughout life, and that not all of those changes are genetic, nor prenatal. I’m happy to accept “hardwired” as purely genetic, but then I guess I’ll want another term for things that are more than culturally conditioned but less than genetically determined.

    I apologize. The dictionary definition is “genetic or innate.”

    Don’t apologize, Susan. Never give people like me an inch. ;)

    You’ve spurred an interesting discussion with your post. Thanks for putting up such a third-rail topic.

    • #53
  24. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Stina (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: My work is informed by my past experience

    Sounds like someone likely was abused was attractive to an older man at an early age

    She’s still attractive now. Or do I get her sex wrong?

    Which “she” are you talking about? If it’s the professor, I believe “they” are a “he.”

    Oh. No, I was talking about the woman you have pictured in your post. I assumed she was the professor involved.

    He is.

    Definitely a she however she identifies.

    Yep.  Your mental disorder does not coerce my use of the English Language.

    • #54
  25. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    By the way.

    Pedophilia is like an infectious disease. Almost 100% of pedophiles were abused as children.

    So do you disagree with @ oldbathos‘ understanding that it is “hardwired”? That wouldn’t be true if they were responding to childhood abuse, @ kozak.

    The brain is a marvelous and terrifying thing. What children are exposed to in development is hardwired when development is done. It’s why I’m rather irritated about our penchant for treating 20 year olds as children simply because their brains haven’t finished developing. If they don’t learn the adulting trait by then, it’s harder to learn.

    • #55
  26. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Stina (View Comment):
    Definitely a she however she identifies.

    I did a little more checking. She’s transgender–a female who became a male. I’m not interested in the details.

    • #56
  27. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    By the way.

    Pedophilia is like an infectious disease. Almost 100% of pedophiles were abused as children.

    Which, if true, would argue against a biological basis — unless childhood abuse was from a father and the trait was strongly genetic.

    A friend says pedophilia has been very common in her family for many generations. She expressed this in connection with her own immediate family; she has a son who at the time had two young daughters. The situation reminded her of how she grew up. Whether biological or not, it does seem to predominate in some families.

    • #57
  28. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Stina (View Comment):
    The brain is a marvelous and terrifying thing. What children are exposed to in development is hardwired when development is done. It’s why I’m rather irritated about our penchant for treating 20 year olds as children simply because their brains haven’t finished developing. If they don’t learn the adulting trait by then, it’s harder to learn.

    Completely agree! At least some of their behaviors!

    • #58
  29. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    By the way.

    Pedophilia is like an infectious disease. Almost 100% of pedophiles were abused as children.

    Which, if true, would argue against a biological basis — unless childhood abuse was from a father and the trait was strongly genetic.

    Are fathers the ones who usually sexually abuse boys? I hadn’t ever heard that. I read that it was usually a close friend of the family or a trusted professional.

    For sexual abuse it is usually like an uncle or close friend, or trusted professional.  But for child-abuse generally, it’s most often the mother.  Sad but true.

    • #59
  30. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Are there really any conclusive correlative studies that demonstrate that maternal sex hormones influence fetal sex drives?  I’ve read for decades articles speculating this as a cause but, before the normalization of homosexuality, homosexuals argued against this stating that this concept would make homosexuality a disorder.  And consequently I’ve never read of any corroborating studies (though I haven’t been paying close attention for a few years).

    Is this science, or an accepted pop-biology scientific myth?

    • #60
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