A Letter to My Gay Friends

 

June is widely recognized as “Pride Month,” and I’m sure we’ll see lots of reminders of that over the next few weeks. Most people aren’t aware that the Pride movement was inspired by, and is in part to commemorate, a specific series of events, the Stonewall Riots in New York City in 1969.

Like members of many other minority groups in American history, homosexual men and women faced discrimination, both legal and cultural, that was overcome only slowly and often at great personal cost. But it was overcome: today people who experience same-sex attraction have the same rights as heterosexuals and enjoy widespread public acceptance.

While the acronym “LGBT” (often with additional letters appended) is now ubiquitous, some in the gay community recognize, correctly I think, a problem with the inclusion of gender identity (trans, etc.) in what has traditionally been a gay rights movement. While the LGB movement sought equality and acceptance, the trans movement attempts to demand more than that and does so in ways that many people reasonably find objectionable.

Many of us don’t want to be told what to say, what pronouns to use, that our daughters must compete against biological males in sporting events, and share locker rooms with them in school. We also reject the seemingly nonsensical notion that we should pretend a boy is a girl simply because the boy declares that he is a girl. We resent the myriad circumlocutions increasingly required to avoid recognizing simple sexual reality: such nonsense as calling mothers “birthing people,” for example.

Beyond that, the trans movement is fundamentally hostile to the notion of basic human sexuality, and in particular of womanhood. It represents the final denial that men and women are different in important ways, in favor of a fictitious equivalence that, predictably, tends to serve men well at the expense of women.

I think there is a growing awareness among some in the gay community that there will be pushback against the increasingly extreme and unacceptable demands of the trans movement, and that, to the extent the gay movement is seen as inextricably bound to the trans movement, that pushback may undermine and threaten legitimate gains made by gay rights activists. It’s perfectly reasonable to encourage tolerance and understanding of people who are different; it isn’t reasonable to demand professions of belief and unacceptable accommodations (e.g., in athletics) based on a fanciful reimagining of human sexuality.

I think it would be prudent to begin to question whether being strongly allied with the so-called “trans” movement is in anyone’s best interests.

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  1. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):
    These people have a normal, healthy sex drive. The object and focus of their attraction happens to be for the same sex.  They are no more in control of that reality, or able to change it, than you or I are in our attraction to the opposite sex.  Nor would they want to change it, any more than I would.

    Why is it healthy to have a sex drive which excludes natural sexual intercourse and includes only artificial forms of sexual imtercourse?

    • #91
  2. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    W Bob (View Comment):

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):
    These people have a normal, healthy sex drive. The object and focus of their attraction happens to be for the same sex. They are no more in control of that reality, or able to change it, than you or I are in our attraction to the opposite sex. Nor would they want to change it, any more than I would.

    Why is it healthy to have a sex drive which excludes natural sexual intercourse and includes only artificial forms of sexual imtercourse?

    Rape is a natural sexual intercourse. At least two people are writing this post are related to Genghis Khan because of all the rape after all. Arguably polygyny is natural as well. Natural human sexuality is not necessarily good. Furthermore, I do believe that many animals masturbate as well and animals are quite natural. 

    I want to live in an unnaturally good and peaceful world. 

    • #92
  3. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    But that has nothing to do with my tolerance of gay people. Nothing about letting homosexuals live homosexual lives requires that I pretend to believe something I don’t believe.

    Well you need, in some circumstances, to treat these couples as equal to other couples – even if you don’t believe it. It seems similar to using female pronouns for trans women, even if you don’t believe they’re women.

    If you choose to. Out of basic politeness maybe. But the government should stay out of it.

    If a guy thinks he’s Napoleon, there’s nothing wrong with saying “How’s it going today, Emperor?” if you want to.  But passing a law that everyone must salute him and the French must accept him as the leader of their country again is a little much.

    And, if the guy is going to be a responsible and equal member of society, he should also be against everyone else being forced to accomodate his delusion.

    I notice we don’t keep taking food away from anorexics, to be supportive of their fixation that they’ree too fat.

    • #93
  4. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Henry Racette: I think there is a growing awareness among some in the gay community that there will be pushback against the increasingly extreme and unacceptable demands of the trans movement, and that, to the extent the gay movement is seen as inextricably bound to the trans movement, that pushback may undermine and threaten legitimate gains made by gay rights activists. It’s perfectly reasonable to encourage tolerance and understanding of people who are different; it isn’t reasonable to demand professions of belief and unacceptable accommodations (e.g., in athletics) based on a fanciful reimagining of human sexuality.

    I think your point is valid on one level but it misses the bigger truth. It was never going to end with the normalization and legalization of gay rights. Gay rights was always just the first step in a larger revolution. Before same sex marriage was legalized, I always wondered what the next thing would be after that. Polygamy? Polyamory? Pedophilia? Something else average people have never heard of? The current trans rights movement dates to 2015 after the Obergefell decision. It sprang up almost overnight.

    There must always be bigots so that the moral elite can have someone to look down on. Once there are not enough anti-trans bigots left, victory will be declared and another invented minority will promptly take center stage. What’s scary is that this process will never end absent some huge underlying cultural revolution. The radicals of today will be looked down upon as bigots by their grandchildren because it never occurred to them to denounce some currently unheard of bigotry.

    This is all made possible by the guilt virus which arose from slavery, which makes it unusually easy to intimidate Americans to perpetually seek absolution from any and all newly invented injustices.

    • #94
  5. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Serious question: How do you square homosexuality with Darwinism?

    Well we all start off as female and then hormones kick in and the vast majority of us XY people become male. The current theory is that some estrogen in the case of males and testosterone in the case of females alter their sexuality.

    If homosexuality is a preference, why do we even need a theory on it?  Do we look for similar theories for other preferences?  Nope.

    Homosexuality has also been observed in insects, and lions and other animals. The idea is that in a minority of animals. Something goes off. Additionally, some believe that insects who engage in homosexuality do so because they mistake the other as being female.

    Right.  What researcher is in the position of reading the mind of an animal having sex, and determining if the animal is raging gay, mistaken, confused, doesn’t care, or is just going through the motions?

    Given the incredible complexity of any multicellular organism, it’s not surprising that some behaviors aren’t quite programmed in the maximally Darwinian way.

    Sure.  But my point is that if we can handwave the foundational concept of survival of the species on and off when it’s convenient to make a point, it’s not much of theory.

    • #95
  6. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    @WBob #94 — really interesting analysis. Rings pretty true, unfortunately.

    • #96
  7. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Zafar (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Serious question: How do you square homosexuality with Darwinism?

    My favourite theory is the presence of an androphilic gene. When present in men they are gay and don’t pass the gene on. When present in women they’re popular and have more kids than the norm – enough to more than make up for the gay siblings. When everybody has more children because farming needs the labour the effect on the population is minimal. When smaller families become the norm the effect is more apparent.

    In short: there really are more gay men than there used to be, and the gay gene continues to spread.

    For lesbians I got nothing.

    Um, well…

    Darwinian evolution takes place over a much, much longer period of time than the ephemeral needs of farm labor.

    • #97
  8. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Henry Racette: But it was overcome: today people who experience same-sex attraction have the same rights as heterosexuals and enjoy widespread public acceptance.

    To the great shame of our nation.

    • #98
  9. GLDIII Temporarily Essential Reagan
    GLDIII Temporarily Essential
    @GLDIII

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    [For the record, I do not have children. In the interest of full disclosure.]

    Pity,  for a moment there I was hoping to see them next month.

    • #99
  10. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but homosexuality is entirely about one’s personal preference for a love and/or sex partner at the current time.

    I mean, it’s not like gay men can’t physically have sex with women; they just prefer not to. Right?

    Given that, exactly how is a personal preference legally actionable?

    Men can’t have sex with anybody unless they’re…how do I put this within the Code of Conduct…excited about it. And women don’t excite them. Their “personal preference” is no more changeable than yours. 

    • #100
  11. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    OK, I don’t have time to read 100+ comments so I apologize for anything that I say here that may be repetitive. Let me relate an anecdote:

    When the moon landing occurred in 1969 I was staying at the home of a local minister while I was doing some work associated with the church. I sat transfixed in front of the television late into the evening following the landing and the first images of a man on the moon. The minister’s wife came to the kitchen from her room and I spoke with her briefly about the moon landing. She yawned and said, “I just can’t get excited about these things.” 

    Well, LGB (and so on and so forth) rights do not excite me. Natural rights, do. So we should respect the natural rights of everyone and let it go. They need not justify who and what they are and whether the came to it by preference or involuntarily. If it is a natural right, then they are entitled to it, and no preferences or parades. If they do not seek preferences, parades, or (as in San Francisco) to act out their sexual activities on a public street, then we’re good.

    • #101
  12. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but homosexuality is entirely about one’s personal preference for a love and/or sex partner at the current time.

    I mean, it’s not like gay men can’t physically have sex with women; they just prefer not to. Right?

    Given that, exactly how is a personal preference legally actionable?

    Men can’t have sex with anybody unless they’re…how do I put this within the Code of Conduct…excited about it. And women don’t excite them. Their “personal preference” is no more changeable than yours.

    I disagree… Men can have EeeWreckShuns for all sorts of reasons; touch, pornography, a personal fantasy, the excitement over the sex act itself, and sometimes for no reason at all at a socially awkward moment.

    Let’s say you have a guy who is only attracted to space aliens with 14 tentacles.  Is he doomed because it’s never gonna happen?  Nah, he’ll work around it.

    • #102
  13. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Serious question: How do you square homosexuality with Darwinism?

    Don,

    I don’t think that’s too hard. Simply put, Darwinism consists of three essential assertions and the consequences that follow from them:

    1. parents tend to pass their traits on to their offspring, but
    2. offspring may differ from their parents in large or small ways, and
    3. those differences contribute to different rates of survival in nature.

    It seems pretty likely that same-sex attraction has less survival value than normal opposite-sex attraction. On the other hand, if same-sex attraction is the product either of relatively minor genetic mutation or of relatively common environmental factors, then it wouldn’t be all that infrequent an occurrence, even absent that trait being passed on generation to generation (which, presumably, it wouldn’t be).

    Put differently: there’s lots of room for traits with negative survival value in a large population. If they’re strongly hereditary, they’re likely to be suppressed pretty quickly by selective forces. Otherwise, they’re just part of the background noise, like any other odd mutation or accident of childhood that prevents reproductive success.

    • #103
  14. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    But that has nothing to do with my tolerance of gay people. Nothing about letting homosexuals live homosexual lives requires that I pretend to believe something I don’t believe.

    Well you need, in some circumstances, to treat these couples as equal to other couples – even if you don’t believe it.

    Other than the specific case of using “husband,” “wife,” and “married” in this context — and I don’t — I don’t know how I’d treat a same-sex couple differently from a normal couple.

    Can you give me an example of what you mean — of a situation in which I might have to act in a way inconsistent with what I believe?

    • #104
  15. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Zafar (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    But that has nothing to do with my tolerance of gay people. Nothing about letting homosexuals live homosexual lives requires that I pretend to believe something I don’t believe.

    Well you need, in some circumstances, to treat these couples as equal to other couples – even if you don’t believe it. It seems similar to using female pronouns for trans women, even if you don’t believe they’re women.

    Maybe to be consistent, rather than doing both, he does neither?

    Yes, I’m trying to understand why he sees the two things so differently.

    Let me try to explain.

    I believe in same-sex attraction. That is, I am confident that homosexuality is really a thing: a man who is sexually attracted to other men is sexually attracted to other men, and there’s no fiction in that. I can acknowledge the truth of that attraction, and freely admit that I don’t feel that attraction while still being confident that he does.

    If a man feels that he is really a woman, I can acknowledge that, yes, he probably does feel that way. But I don’t have to pretend to believe that he’s correct. I don’t have to pretend that I think he really is a woman, even if he is sure he is.

    In both cases, I think there’s something a little bit abnormal in the psychology of the individual in question. That isn’t a value judgment, merely an opinion about biology: I think both homosexuality and gender dysphoria are abnormal, variations from normal human sexuality and its expression.

    I am willing to acknowledge that both individuals feel the way they feel. The homosexual man asks nothing more; he doesn’t insist that I agree with him that the person to whom he’s attracted is sexually interesting to me. I don’t have to express my agreement with his feelings in order to accept him as he is, I merely have to accept that he feels that way.

    Similarly, I am willing to acknowledge that the man who thinks he feels like a woman really does believe that. Unfortunately, the “trans” movement wants more than my acknowledgement that the feeling is real. They want me to express my belief that the feeling is correct, that it comports with reality in some way that I don’t think it does. That’s the portion of it that I reject. I think biological sex is immutable, and biologically determined before birth. It isn’t assigned, nor is it a matter of how one feels about one’s sex.

    That’s the difference between my acceptance of the reality of homosexual attraction and my rejection of the assertion of gender fluidity, transmutability, etc.

    • #105
  16. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    And yes, I think that ship has sailed for those of you who see it otherwise. Unless the trans movement does enough damage to cause a refocusing on fundamental issues of homosexual rights – and I hope it does not — I don’t expect the status quo to chang

    Do you truly think that we will all be forever called to “Celebrate!” others sexual preferences and quirks?

    Probably. We’ll probably all be forever called to celebrate Earth Day, too, and Kwanza, and other idiocy. That doesn’t mean we have to take any of it seriously.

    • #106
  17. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    Rodin (View Comment):

    OK, I don’t have time to read 100+ comments so I apologize for anything that I say here that may be repetitive. Let me relate an anecdote:

    When the moon landing occurred in 1969 I was staying at the home of a local minister while I was doing some work associated with the church. I sat transfixed in front of the television late into the evening following the landing and the first images of a man on the moon. The minister’s wife came to the kitchen from her room and I spoke with her briefly about the moon landing. She yawned and said, “I just can’t get excited about these things.”

    Well, LGB (and so on and so forth) rights do not excite me. Natural rights, do. So we should respect the natural rights of everyone and let it go. They need not justify who and what they are and whether the came to it by preference or involuntarily. If it is a natural right, then they are entitled to it, and no preferences or parades. If they do not seek preferences, parades, or (as in San Francisco) to act out their sexual activities on a public street, then we’re good.

    I feel that way about the Proud Boys. As long as I never have to see them or hear about them, they’re OK with me. BTW, is there any gayer name for a group than “the Proud Boys”? They sound like they should be dancing on parade floats in spangled underwear. 

    • #107
  18. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Everything to do with sex isn’t automatically worthy of respect or acceptance, nor of inclusion into the gay rights movement.

    100% this.

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    I can answer that. Was that a rhetorical question?

    Go crazy.

    *sigh*

    You shouldn’t encourage him. I use the Castaigne Skip feature, so I don’t have to read his comments on this thread, but other people might not.

    • #108
  19. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: But it was overcome: today people who experience same-sex attraction have the same rights as heterosexuals and enjoy widespread public acceptance.

    To the great shame of our nation.

    I disagree, but that’s a different discussion. The point of the original post really is simply that homosexuals have broad acceptance, and that that acceptance is likely to suffer as a consequence of the trans movement and its unreasonable, unacceptable, and bullying behavior.

    • #109
  20. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: But it was overcome: today people who experience same-sex attraction have the same rights as heterosexuals and enjoy widespread public acceptance.

    To the great shame of our nation.

    I disagree, but that’s a different discussion. The point of the original post really is simply that homosexuals have broad acceptance, and that that acceptance is likely to suffer as a consequence of the trans movement and its unreasonable, unacceptable, and bullying behavior.

    Andrew Sullivan agrees with you. 

    • #110
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    *As far as we know, that is. Vonnegut, in Slaughterhouse Five, had the Tralfamadorians reveal the truth about human reproduction to Billy Pilgrim:

    “There were five sexes on Tralfamadore, each of them performing a step necessary in the creation of a new individual.  They looked identical to Billy–because their sex differences were all in the fourth dimension.

    One of the biggest moral bombshells handed to Billy by the Tralfamadorians, incidentally had to do with sex on Earth.  They said their flying-saucer crews had identified no fewer than seven sexes on Earth, each essential to reproduction.  Again:  Billy couldn’t possibly imagine what five of those seven sexes had to do with the making of a baby, since they were sexually active only in the fourth dimension.

    The Tralfamadorians tried to give Billy clues that would help him imagine sex in the invisible dimension.  They told him that there could be no Earthing babies without male homosexuals.  There could be babies without female homosexuals.  There couldn’t be babies without women over sixty-five years old.  There could be babies without men over sixty-five.  There couldn’t be babies without other babies who had lived an hour or less after birth.  And so on. It was gibberish to Billy.”

     Slaughterhouse-Five: Or The Children’s Crusade, A Duty Dance With Death pp. 145-146

     

    Which was all just made up, so how is it relevant?

    • #111
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    If a man feels that he is really a woman, I can acknowledge that, yes, he probably does feel that way. But I don’t have to pretend to believe that he’s correct. I don’t have to pretend that I think he really is a woman, even if he is sure he is.

    I think you go off the rails here, as it were.  No man can know what it feels like to be a woman, and so no man can feel he really is a woman.  All anyone can know is that they don’t feel “right” the way they are, which is at least the beginning of a definition of a mental illness.

    • #112
  23. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    It seems pretty likely that same-sex attraction has less survival value than normal opposite-sex attraction.

    Ya think?  

    I mean, that’s my point.  Homosexuality has zero survivability to the next generation.  It’s effectively a Darwin Award.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.  And I mean that, just as there’s nothing wrong with anybody who doesn’t engage in procreative sex for whatever reasons they choose.

    On the other hand, if same-sex attraction is the product either of relatively minor genetic mutation or of relatively common environmental factors, then it wouldn’t be all that infrequent an occurrence, even absent that trait being passed on generation to generation (which, presumably, it wouldn’t be).

    Are there any examples of attraction or preference being genetic?  I can’t imagine a mechanism for such a thing.

    • #113
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I am willing to acknowledge that both individuals feel the way they feel. The homosexual man asks nothing more; he doesn’t insist that I agree with him that the person to whom he’s attracted is sexually interesting to me. I don’t have to express my agreement with his feelings in order to accept him as he is, I merely have to accept that he feels that way.

    They want more than that, at least some of them:  they insist that you bake a cake for their ersatz wedding, etc, under penalty of law.

    Similarly, I am willing to acknowledge that the man who thinks he feels like a woman really does believe that. Unfortunately, the “trans” movement wants more than my acknowledgement that the feeling is real. They want me to express my belief that the feeling is correct, that it comports with reality in some way that I don’t think it does. That’s the portion of it that I reject. I think biological sex is immutable, and biologically determined before birth. It isn’t assigned, nor is it a matter of how one feels about one’s sex.

    That demand for acceptance, and even celebration in a way – such as providing a cake for their ersatz wedding – doesn’t seem any different from the demands of homosexuality, you’ve just become accustomed to the demands of homosexuals, or surrendered, or what-have-you.

    • #114
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: But it was overcome: today people who experience same-sex attraction have the same rights as heterosexuals and enjoy widespread public acceptance.

    To the great shame of our nation.

    I disagree, but that’s a different discussion. The point of the original post really is simply that homosexuals have broad acceptance, and that that acceptance is likely to suffer as a consequence of the trans movement and its unreasonable, unacceptable, and bullying behavior.

    Have you forgotten the previous unreasonable, unacceptable, and bullying behavior of homosexual groups before you seemingly more or less surrendered and wiped it from your memory?

    The children/school/etc stuff certainly did not begin with trans.  Homosexual advocacy groups – and their other enablers on the left – in the past demanded the same teaching of “alternate lifestyle” stuff – including sodomy – to children back when trans advocacy wasn’t even a gleam in some monster’s eye.

    • #115
  26. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Serious question: How do you square homosexuality with Darwinism?

    But none of that is responsible for the innate desire itself; that has to be wired in somehow from the get-go, or we would be too indifferent to have ever gotten off the ground.

    Right.  The innate desire to mate has to be wired in for any species to survive.

    This desire is primarily wired to make us attracted to the opposite sex, which is understandable. But (obviously) sometimes the wiring makes a few attracted to their own sex. This is hardly unusual in the distribution of traits among any group.

    Not so obviously.  Some level of desire to mate, horniness if you will, is surely wired in.  But anything beyond that appears to be more cultural, societal, or psychological.

    These people have a normal, healthy sex drive. The object and focus of their attraction happens to be for the same sex. They are no more in control of that reality, or able to change it, than you or I are in our attraction to the opposite sex. Nor would they want to change it, any more than I would.

    (I live near San Francisco.  If you googled “Folsom Street Fair” you would not say it was normal or healthy.)

    But we change the “object and focus of our attraction” all the time.   

    It conforms to Darwin’s theory because in the whole “natural selection/mutation” game, every population has all kinds of subsets, some of them not conducive to the propagation of the species. As long as none of these subsets become too large a percentage of the whole, the species will do just fine. We don’t need everybody participating.* Priests, nuns, homosexuals, etc., all have other valuable ways of contributing to a quirky and interesting society than just reproducing.

    Indeed.  Survival of the species requires short term, long term, and all sorts of medium term survivals, all working together.

    But at the same time, nobody has ever suggested that there is a gene for priests and nuns.

    • #116
  27. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I always find is interesting that people talk about homosexuality as if orientation and sexual activity are the same. They are not. People of either orientation can engage in homosexual behavior.

    I think you might be old enough to have heard that joke? How can you tell if your room mate is gay?

    There’s a squeegee in the shower.

    • #117
  28. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    namlliT noD (View Comment):
    Are there any examples of attraction or preference being genetic?  I can’t imagine a mechanism for such a thing.

    I gave you one. More on that here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/oct/13/highereducation.research

    • #118
  29. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Please re-read what I wrote. I wrote it explicitly around teaching, but on purpose, did not mention things like FGM or abuse, knowing that you would not disappoint. 

    When you want to talk about telling parents what they can and cannot teach their children, get back to me. Otherwise, you have done nothing but try to change the conversation to another topic. 

    Parents teaching their gay children that being gay is wrong, and that gay sex is evil, damage their children fairly profoundly.

    Is that just fine because parents have the right to teach their children whatever they want to?

    And if that is just fine, why not FGM?  What is the difference if it all comes down to parental choice?

    • #119
  30. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: But it was overcome: today people who experience same-sex attraction have the same rights as heterosexuals and enjoy widespread public acceptance.

    To the great shame of our nation.

    I disagree, but that’s a different discussion. The point of the original post really is simply that homosexuals have broad acceptance, and that that acceptance is likely to suffer as a consequence of the trans movement and its unreasonable, unacceptable, and bullying behavior.

    Have you forgotten the previous unreasonable, unacceptable, and bullying behavior of homosexual groups before you seemingly more or less surrendered and wiped it from your memory?

    The children/school/etc stuff certainly did not begin with trans. Homosexual advocacy groups – and their other enablers on the left – in the past demanded the same teaching of “alternate lifestyle” stuff – including sodomy – to children back when trans advocacy wasn’t even a gleam in some monster’s eye.

    The LGB movement hasn’t been perfect, but I think there’s a meaningful difference between it and the trans movement. The latter is founded on an essential fiction — unlike the homosexual movement— and broadly militant.

    Homosexuality is real and it will be here forever. The trans movement is a noxious fad.

     

    • #120
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