A Letter to My Gay Friends

 

June is widely recognized as “Pride Month,” and I’m sure we’ll see lots of reminders of that over the next few weeks. Most people aren’t aware that the Pride movement was inspired by, and is in part to commemorate, a specific series of events, the Stonewall Riots in New York City in 1969.

Like members of many other minority groups in American history, homosexual men and women faced discrimination, both legal and cultural, that was overcome only slowly and often at great personal cost. But it was overcome: today people who experience same-sex attraction have the same rights as heterosexuals and enjoy widespread public acceptance.

While the acronym “LGBT” (often with additional letters appended) is now ubiquitous, some in the gay community recognize, correctly I think, a problem with the inclusion of gender identity (trans, etc.) in what has traditionally been a gay rights movement. While the LGB movement sought equality and acceptance, the trans movement attempts to demand more than that and does so in ways that many people reasonably find objectionable.

Many of us don’t want to be told what to say, what pronouns to use, that our daughters must compete against biological males in sporting events, and share locker rooms with them in school. We also reject the seemingly nonsensical notion that we should pretend a boy is a girl simply because the boy declares that he is a girl. We resent the myriad circumlocutions increasingly required to avoid recognizing simple sexual reality: such nonsense as calling mothers “birthing people,” for example.

Beyond that, the trans movement is fundamentally hostile to the notion of basic human sexuality, and in particular of womanhood. It represents the final denial that men and women are different in important ways, in favor of a fictitious equivalence that, predictably, tends to serve men well at the expense of women.

I think there is a growing awareness among some in the gay community that there will be pushback against the increasingly extreme and unacceptable demands of the trans movement, and that, to the extent the gay movement is seen as inextricably bound to the trans movement, that pushback may undermine and threaten legitimate gains made by gay rights activists. It’s perfectly reasonable to encourage tolerance and understanding of people who are different; it isn’t reasonable to demand professions of belief and unacceptable accommodations (e.g., in athletics) based on a fanciful reimagining of human sexuality.

I think it would be prudent to begin to question whether being strongly allied with the so-called “trans” movement is in anyone’s best interests.

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  1. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Hank, sorry, but you have to count me out of this one. I do not consider the normalization of homosexuality to have been a good thing. I do not think that homosexual people have a “right” to engage in sodomy. I disagree with the idea that there are “gay rights.” I find this to be a fundamental misconception of the very idea of “rights,” as the category in question is based entirely on behavior.

    Homosexual people do have the same rights as the rest of us — to vote, own property, speak freely, and the like. But I reject the idea that there is a “right” to homosexual sodomy. This was the holding of a SCOTUS majority as recently as the Bowers v. Hardwick case in 1986.

    It is depressing to find myself in a minority on this point, even among self-identified conservatives.

    In my view, the fundamental underlying arguments of modern feminism, the pro-homosexuality movement, and the trans movement are identical. The application is different, but the concept is the same, I think. In all cases, it is a rejection of traditional marriage and traditional family. So I dissent. Pointlessly, it seems.

    Homosexuality is not an ethnicity. Homosexuals are not a minority as that term was always understood. No one in America was ever denied the right to marry, including homosexuals. Homosexuals often married long before the “gay rights” movement.

    • #61
  2. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    You mean the sex acts in Sodom and Gomorrah? I know of them. Sodomy is not used to refer to attempted rape of Angels far as I know.

    I never considered the act of sodomy strictly a gay man thing. I saw homosexuality as wrong because of its use of sodomy, where sodomy was bad for people and that was the only mechanism for homosexual couplings.

    In other words, the sin in homosexuality IS the sodomy and the prohibition extends to heterosexual couples, but is less obvious in practice.

    So I approve of sodomy while I disapprove of; unwed procreative sex, rape, incest, polygyny and the sexual assault of Angels. Where am I inconsistent? 

    • #62
  3. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Everything to do with sex isn’t automatically worthy of respect or acceptance, nor of inclusion into the gay rights movement.

    100% this.

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    • #63
  4. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Everything to do with sex isn’t automatically worthy of respect or acceptance, nor of inclusion into the gay rights movement.

    100% this.

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    I can answer that. Was that a rhetorical question? 

    • #64
  5. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Hank, sorry, but you have to count me out of this one. 

    As soon as I saw the title, I thought, “Jerry in 3…2…1…” and you didn’t let me down! :-)

    • #65
  6. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Everything to do with sex isn’t automatically worthy of respect or acceptance, nor of inclusion into the gay rights movement.

    100% this.

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    I can answer that. Was that a rhetorical question?

    Go crazy.

    • #66
  7. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    W Bob (View Comment):
    Homosexuality is not an ethnicity. Homosexuals are not a minority as that term was always understood. No one in America was ever denied the right to marry, including homosexuals. Homosexuals often married long before the “gay rights” movement.

    I think you meant ‘married’?

    • #67
  8. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Hank, sorry, but you have to count me out of this one.

    As soon as I saw the title, I thought, “Jerry in 3…2…1…” and you didn’t let me down! :-)

    I highly suggest listening to Jerry on his Land of Confusion podcast. I like how he is against Universal suffrage. 

    • #68
  9. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    In case you get it wrong. Why should your kids suffer?

    • #69
  10. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    In case you get it wrong. Why should your kids suffer?

    What if [general] you get it wrong?? Why should my kids suffer?

    • #70
  11. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    [For the record, I do not have children. In the interest of full disclosure.]

    • #71
  12. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    In case you get it wrong. Why should your kids suffer?

    That actually pretty much shows the totalitarian’s argument in a nutshell. “I am right, and therefore, you lose your right to teach morality to your children.”

    It is funny, that the very people who want government out of consenting relationships between adults want to use that same point of a gun to force their way into the parent-child relationship. Once you tell parents what they can and cannot teach their children, or allow their children to be taught, you are a tyrant.  

    • #72
  13. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    I always find is interesting that people talk about homosexuality as if orientation and sexual activity are the same. They are not. People of either orientation can engage in homosexual behavior. 

    • #73
  14. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    [For the record, I do not have children. In the interest of full disclosure.]

    Me neither. This is totally hypothetical.

    But I think that’s the logic of it. What if we get it wrong? Why should our kids suffer?

    • #74
  15. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    It is funny, that the very people who want government out of consenting relationships between adults want to use that same point of a gun to force their way into the parent-child relationship. Once you tell parents what they can and cannot teach their children, or allow their children to be taught, you are a tyrant.  

    I am totally okay with stopping parents from doing things like FGM to their kids. Does that make me tyranny adjacent? I don’t care.

    Are there psychological things which are FGM adjacent. I think so, but what do you think?

    • #75
  16. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    [For the record, I do not have children. In the interest of full disclosure.]

    Me neither. This is totally hypothetical.

    But I think that’s the logic of it. What if we get it wrong? Why should our kids suffer?

    Well who do you risk getting it wrong? I’d go with the parent because they have the second most to lose from messing up their kid. Government isn’t afraid of not having grandkids at their funeral. 

    • #76
  17. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I always find is interesting that people talk about homosexuality as if orientation and sexual activity are the same. They are not. People of either orientation can engage in homosexual behavior.

    I think you might be old enough to have heard that joke? How can you tell if your room mate is gay?

    • #77
  18. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I always find is interesting that people talk about homosexuality as if orientation and sexual activity are the same. They are not. People of either orientation can engage in homosexual behavior.

    I think you might be old enough to have heard that joke? How can you tell if your room mate is gay?

    He criticizes your taste in clothes?

    • #78
  19. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I always find is interesting that people talk about homosexuality as if orientation and sexual activity are the same. They are not. People of either orientation can engage in homosexual behavior.

    I think you might be old enough to have heard that joke? How can you tell if your room mate is gay?

    He criticizes your taste in clothes?

    No, your mother does that ( and also your life choices).

    • #79
  20. DrewInTherapy Member
    DrewInTherapy
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    In case you get it wrong. Why should your kids suffer?

    This is a comment typical of government educrats, that if I don’t teach my children in the way they wish, my children will suffer.

    Why we homeschool, reason #173

    • #80
  21. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    I could never understand why anyone would want to be proud of being homosexual. It is antithetical to the survival of the human race.

    Are you sure that the human race is all that good? How would homosexuals spawning more children make the human race better? We don’t all need to breed to make sure the human race continues. Priests and monks for for millennia been living as celibates to elevate humanity in their own way. Homosexuals decided to make the American Musical.

    Teenagers are curious and confused people. They tend to not be the brightest bulbs. There is something called sexual imprinting. Our first sexual interactions tend to define our future sexual interactions.

    A bad Hetero or a favorable homo or some kind of sexual abuse before sexual maturity all have impacts on how we view sex. The favorable atmosphere surrounding homosexuality and sexual identity makes it far likelier that kids who weren’t going to be gay may end up gay. That’s partly why queerness is sky rocketing in the youngest generation. It seems Munchausen by proxy is on the rise, too, with mothers wanting queer kids more than straight kids. There’s a socially acceptable attention racket available.

    This is all backed by experiments that came out of the Frankfurt School where they were experimenting on children on how early introduction to sex lowers sexual inhibition and natural boundaries as they mature. Aldous Huxley wasn’t making it up, it was actual research being done.

    Now, we have sexual deviancy (sodomy) being taught to some elementary students in our school system. It’s a pattern attempting to normalize (in the TRUEST statistical sense of that word) sexual deviancy.

    Do you have references to the experiments with children?  I knew the Frankfurt bunch was bad, but I didn’t know they were that bad!  

    • #81
  22. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    [For the record, I do not have children. In the interest of full disclosure.]

    Me neither. This is totally hypothetical.

    But I think that’s the logic of it. What if we get it wrong? Why should our kids suffer?

    I’m on board with Bryan’s comment #72. A lot of parents are going to get a lot of things wrong. But it’s a certainty that the state will get far more things wrong and do far more damage in the process.

    • #82
  23. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    I could never understand why anyone would want to be proud of being homosexual. It is antithetical to the survival of the human race.

    Are you sure that the human race is all that good? How would homosexuals spawning more children make the human race better? We don’t all need to breed to make sure the human race continues. Priests and monks for for millennia been living as celibates to elevate humanity in their own way. Homosexuals decided to make the American Musical.

    Teenagers are curious and confused people. They tend to not be the brightest bulbs. There is something called sexual imprinting. Our first sexual interactions tend to define our future sexual interactions.

    A bad Hetero or a favorable homo or some kind of sexual abuse before sexual maturity all have impacts on how we view sex. The favorable atmosphere surrounding homosexuality and sexual identity makes it far likelier that kids who weren’t going to be gay may end up gay. That’s partly why queerness is sky rocketing in the youngest generation. It seems Munchausen by proxy is on the rise, too, with mothers wanting queer kids more than straight kids. There’s a socially acceptable attention racket available.

    This is all backed by experiments that came out of the Frankfurt School where they were experimenting on children on how early introduction to sex lowers sexual inhibition and natural boundaries as they mature. Aldous Huxley wasn’t making it up, it was actual research being done.

    Now, we have sexual deviancy (sodomy) being taught to some elementary students in our school system. It’s a pattern attempting to normalize (in the TRUEST statistical sense of that word) sexual deviancy.

    Do you have references to the experiments with children? I knew the Frankfurt bunch was bad, but I didn’t know they were that bad!

    Check out Chapter Five of Kinsey’s book if you want to lose your appetite.

    • #83
  24. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Everything to do with sex isn’t automatically worthy of respect or acceptance, nor of inclusion into the gay rights movement.

    100% this.

    Do whatever you want, but why do I have to love it? And why do you need to teach my kids about it?

    I can answer that. Was that a rhetorical question?

    Go crazy.

    Currently, leftists are in the grip of a romantic movements that sometimes expresses itself in philosophical tenets. Among these tenets are that people can be perfected and that they should be perfected through government power. Not using government power to perfect people, children in particular, is a violation of the freedom and dignity of children. The family is at most, a useful unit to cooperate with government and at worst, a hindrance to government’s beneficent power.

    Humans have a yearning for control over others and a yearning for goodness and romantic beliefs coincide quite well with both of those.

    Furthermore, sexuality and sexual identity are among the most important parts of who and what we are according to the romantic view of the world. People objecting to your sexual appetites, is an not merely rude but it is an infringement of your most important freedoms. This is why some transactivists say that, “You are denying my existence.” You can’t be permitted to disagree because it denies them their freedom to define themselves. I haven’t entirely understood why sexual identity is now the most important thing ever but Scott Yenor retraces some of the history.

    I know that sexuality has always been connected to spirituality. I think that without religion in order to redirect the human impulses people worship funny things. Apparently we are worshipping how we feel now.

    • #84
  25. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Serious question: How do you square homosexuality with Darwinism?

    Here’s how:

    Nobody knows what makes sexual attraction. You can’t find the thing particular thing that gets you hot somewhere in the genetic code and see that it is different from the the guy who gets off on something else. Some of it, the details, undoubtedly come from the environment, some trauma or fixation that developed in childhood, or maybe even infancy.  Some of these become full-blown fetishes, but most of them just inform “how we like it”.

    But none of that is responsible for the innate desire itself; that has to be wired in somehow from the get-go, or we would be too indifferent to have ever gotten off the ground.

    This desire is primarily wired to make us attracted to the opposite sex, which is understandable. But (obviously) sometimes the wiring makes a few attracted to their own sex. This is hardly unusual in the distribution of traits among any group.

    These people have a normal, healthy sex drive. The object and focus of their attraction happens to be for the same sex.  They are no more in control of that reality, or able to change it, than you or I are in our attraction to the opposite sex.  Nor would they want to change it, any more than I would.

    I believe this because I know that if events were such that I had to change to being homosexual, even for the good of the tribe, even to save my children, I couldn’t do it.  I could certainly go through with the act, have the sex (to save my children of course ;-)), but I could not ever actually switch my preference. And it would be hellish to have to live that way and pretend.  I assume it is exactly this way for homosexuals also.

    To answer your question then:

    It conforms to Darwin’s theory because in the whole “natural selection/mutation” game, every population has all kinds of subsets, some of them not conducive to the propagation of the species. As long as none of these subsets become too large a percentage of the whole, the species will do just fine. We don’t need everybody participating.* Priests, nuns, homosexuals, etc., all have other valuable ways of contributing to a quirky and interesting society than just reproducing.

    If we were a small tribe of twenty, and we needed everybody to be reproducing like mad, it might be different. But even then if that one guy put on a hell of a musical, then why not? The more the merrier.

    *As far as we know, that is. Vonnegut, in Slaughterhouse Five, had the Tralfamadorians reveal the truth about human reproduction to Billy Pilgrim:

    “There were five sexes on Tralfamadore, each of them performing a step necessary in the creation of a new individual.  They looked identical to Billy–because their sex differences were all in the fourth dimension.

    One of the biggest moral bombshells handed to Billy by the Tralfamadorians, incidentally had to do with sex on Earth.  They said their flying-saucer crews had identified no fewer than seven sexes on Earth, each essential to reproduction.  Again:  Billy couldn’t possibly imagine what five of those seven sexes had to do with the making of a baby, since they were sexually active only in the fourth dimension.

    The Tralfamadorians tried to give Billy clues that would help him imagine sex in the invisible dimension.  They told him that there could be no Earthing babies without male homosexuals.  There could be babies without female homosexuals.  There couldn’t be babies without women over sixty-five years old.  There could be babies without men over sixty-five.  There couldn’t be babies without other babies who had lived an hour or less after birth.  And so on. It was gibberish to Billy.”

     Slaughterhouse-Five: Or The Children’s Crusade, A Duty Dance With Death pp. 145-146

    • #85
  26. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    • #86
  27. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    Do you have references to the experiments with children?  I knew the Frankfurt bunch was bad, but I didn’t know they were that bad!  

    I can’t find my original source. I’m not good at documenting reference material and this was from 10 years ago at least.

    What I can find is the Kinsey experiments:

    http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/chapter7.pdf

    • #87
  28. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    It is funny, that the very people who want government out of consenting relationships between adults want to use that same point of a gun to force their way into the parent-child relationship. Once you tell parents what they can and cannot teach their children, or allow their children to be taught, you are a tyrant.

    I am totally okay with stopping parents from doing things like FGM to their kids. Does that make me tyranny adjacent? I don’t care.

    Are there psychological things which are FGM adjacent. I think so, but what do you think?

    Please re-read what I wrote. I wrote it explicitly around teaching, but on purpose, did not mention things like FGM or abuse, knowing that you would not disappoint. 

    When you want to talk about telling parents what they can and cannot teach their children, get back to me. Otherwise, you have done nothing but try to change the conversation to another topic. 

    • #88
  29. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Stina (View Comment):

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    Do you have references to the experiments with children? I knew the Frankfurt bunch was bad, but I didn’t know they were that bad!

    I can’t find my original source. I’m not good at documenting reference material and this was from 10 years ago at least.

    What I can find is the Kinsey experiments:

    http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/chapter7.pdf

    Also, this youtube doc is a good resource.

    • #89
  30. DrewInTherapy Member
    DrewInTherapy
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Zafar (View Comment):

    I am totally okay with stopping parents from doing things like FGM to their kids. Does that make me tyranny adjacent? I don’t care.

    Are there psychological things which are FGM adjacent. I think so, but what do you think?

    Don’t use the “______-adjacent” construction, please. Things are either tyranny or they aren’t. The “______-adjacent” construction removes clarity from discussion, which is frequently the intent.

    • #90
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