Yakub and the Origins of the White Race

 

I have an interesting story to tell you.

About 6,600 years ago, all people in the world were black.  They generally lived in peace and harmony, although about 30% were somehow dissatisfied.  At that time, a black scientist named Yakub was living in Mecca.

Yakub led a group of 59,999 followers to the Greek island of Patmos, also called Pelan, where he instituted a human breeding program that lasted 600 years, carried on by his followers after Yakub’s death.  They systematically killed the darker-skinned babies and bred the lighter-skinned babies.  In this way, they selectively bred all of the non-black races: first the brown people, then the red (American Indians), then the yellow (East Asians), and finally the whites.

Yakub was an evil genius whose motives seem a bit unclear.  But he wanted to produce white people, who are devils whose purpose is to persecute and kill the righteous, who are the black nation.

It was prophesied that the white devils, the progeny of Yakub, were destined to rule the earth for 6,000 years.  Jesus condemned them 2,000 years ago.  The white devils were bottled up in Europe for about 1,000 years by Muhammad (may the peace of Allah be upon him) and his successors.

But the white devils have been loose for 400 years.  These devils have tried to deceive the people all over the earth with Christianity, which is a religion organized and backed by the white devils for the purpose of making slaves of black mankind.  The white race was created to be the enemy of black mankind for 6,000 years, but the separation and War of Armageddon are at hand.

We know this because God in person, sometimes called the Messiah or the Mahdi, appeared in America, coming from the Holy City Mecca in 1930.  He was persecuted and jailed in America in the 1930s.  God in person was a black American man named Wallace Fard Muhammad, who taught the religion of peace, Islam.

Has anyone heard this story before?

As far as I can tell, this is the actual theology of the Nation of Islam, as professed by Elijah Muhammad, its long-time leader who died in 1975.  His son, Warith Deen Muhammad, assumed leadership after his death and sought to move the organization toward a more standard Sunni Islam, but this was unsuccessful, and Louis Farrakhan assumed leadership in 1981.  Muhammad Ali (the boxer) was a prominent believer in this theology.  He was honored as the American chosen to light the Olympic torch at the 1996 games in Atlanta.

Until yesterday, I had no idea that these were the beliefs of the Nation of Islam.  I admit that I hadn’t looked into the issue in much detail.  I had the general impression that Farrakhan was a rather odious guy, something of a black supremacist, and often castigated as anti-Semitic (though it’s not clear that NoI theology is more hostile toward Jews than it is toward whites in general).  I heard an outline of this story in Prof. Wilfred Reilly’s fine book, Taboo, which I’ve been enjoying in audio format.

Sources:

There’s a Wikipedia page here about Yakub.  I know, Wikipedia may be dubious, so I looked a bit further.

I found several official Nation of Islam sources supporting the story.  Here is their “Brief history on the origin of the Nation of Islam.” Here is their “A historic look at the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad.”    Here is their “The Muslim Program,” which explains “What The Muslims Want.”  Here is a 2015 article, “Echoes of Mr. Yakup after Patmos,” by the Nation of Islam Research Group.

If you can endure it, here is a pdf version of Elijah Muhammad’s book, “Message To The Blackman in America by Elijah Muhammad (Messenger of Allah).”  Paper versions of the book are available on Amazon (and presumably elsewhere), but I cannot personally attest to the accuracy of the pdf version.

Here are some quotes from Message to the Blackman in America (page references are to the pdf version linked above):

“You originally came from the God of Righteousness and have the opportunity to return, while the devils are from the man devil (Yakub), who has ruled the world for the past 6,000 years under falsehood, labeled under the name of God and His prophets.  The wort thing to ever happen to the devils is: the truth of them made manifest that they are really the devils whom the righteous (all members of the black nation) should shun and never accept as truthful guides of God!  This is why the devils have always persecuted and killed the righteous.  But the time has at last arrived that Allah (God) will put an end to their persecuting and killing the righteous (the black nation).”  Chapter 3, page 18.

“Read and study the above chapter of John 8:42, all of you, who are Christians, believers in the Bible and Jesus, as you say.  If you understand it right, you will agree with me that the whole Caucasian race is a race of devils.  They have proved to be devils in the garden of Paradise and were condemned 4,000 years later by Jesus.  Likewise, they are condemned today, by the Great Mahdi Muhammad, as being nothing but devils in the plainest language.”  Chapter 13, p. 29.

“Your misunderstanding and misinterpretation of it is really the joy of devils.  For it is the devils’ desire to keep the so-called Negroes ignorant of the truth of God until they see it with their eyes.  The truth of God is the salvation and freedom of the so called Negroes from the devils’ power.  Can you blame them?  No!  Blame yourself for being so foolish as to allow the devils to fool you in not accepting the truth after it comes to you.  The devils have tried to deceive the people all over the earth with Christianity, that is, God the Father, Jesus the Son, the Holy Ghost; three Gods into one God.”  Chapter 6, p. 21.

“The greatest hindrance to the truth of our people is the of [sic] Christianity.”  Ch. 8, p. 26.

“Again, know that Jesus was only a prophet and cannot hear you pray any more than Moses or any other dead prophet.  Know, too, that this white race was created to be the enemy of black mankind for 6,000 years, which makes their number to be six.  That is not your number or mine.  We do not have a number, because we have no birth record.  Do not let anyone fool you.  This is the separation and the War of Armageddon.”  Ch. 18, p. 35.

“They were created to rule us for 6,000 years, and then Allah (God) will destroy them from the earth and give the earth back to its original owners — the Black Nation.”  Ch. 53, p. 78.

“Allah, your God, will grant you power to overcome your enemies though their power may look as endurable as the mountains.  Fear not!  Allah is the Best Knower.  Armageddon has started, and after it there will be no Christian religion or churches.  Jesus was a Muslim, not a Christian.”  Ch. 11, p. 28.

“They (white race” are not hostile toward me because I am a Muslim and because I am teaching the true religion, Islam, to my people and the worship of the true and living God who is not a spook, but is flesh and blood (Allah).  They are hostile against me and my followers because were are of the Original Black Race whom they were created to hate from the very beginning of their existence, 6,000 years ago.  They were not created to love respect any member of the darker nations, for they are by nature, as Almighty Allah has taught them, in capable [sic] of loving even themselves.  They cannot produce good, for they are without the nature of good.  They cannot love Allah and His religion Islam, for it is against their nature to submit to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.  All manner of evil and corruption has come from the white race.”  Ch. 54, p. 80.

“According to Allah, the origin of such teachings as a Mystery God is from the devils!  It was taught to them by their father, Yakub, 6,000 years ago.  They know today that God is not a mystery but will not teach it.  He (devil), the god of evil, was made to rule the nations of earth for 6,000 years, and naturally he would not teach obedience to a God other than himself.  So, a knowledge of the true God of Righteousness was not represented by the devils.  The true God was not to be made manifest to the people until the god of evil (devil) has finished or lived out his time, which was allowed to deceive the nations . . ..  The shutting up and loosing of the devil mentioned in Rev. 20:7 could refer to the time between the A.D. 570-1555 when they (John Hawkins) deceived our fathers and brought them to slavery in America, which is nearly 1,000 years that they and Christianity were bottled up in Europe by the spread of Islam and Muhammad (may the peace of Allah be upon him) and his successors.  Their being loose to deceive the nations of the earth would refer to the time (A.D. 1555 to 1955) which they were loose (free) to travel over the earth and deceive the people.”  Ch. 1, p. 16.

“Allah came to us from the Holy City Mecca, Arabia, in 1930.  He used the name Wallace D. Fard, often signing it W.D. Fard, in the third year (1933).  He signed his name W.F. Muhammad which stands for Wallace Fard Muhammad.  He came alone.  He began teaching us the knowledge of ourselves, of God and the devil, of the measurement of the earth, of other planet [sic], and of the civilization of some of the planets other than earth.  He measured and weighed the earth and its water; the history of the moon, the history of the two nations, black and white that dominate the earth.  He gave the enact birth [sic] of the white race, the name of their God who made them and how; and the end of their time, the judgment and how it will begin.”  Ch. 8, p. 25.

“I asked him, ‘Who are you, and what is your real name?’  He said, ‘I am the one that the world has been expecting for 2000 years.’  I said to him again, ‘What is your name?’  He said, “My name is Mahdi; I am God, I came to guide you into the right path that you may be successful and see the hereafter.  He described the destruction of the world with bombs, poison gas, and finally with fire that would consume and destroy everything in the present world.”  Ch. 8, p. 25.

“He condemned the teachings of God not being a man as a lie from the devils for the past 6,000 years; he said that Christianity was a religion organized and backed by the devils for the purpose of making slaves of black mankind.”  Ch. 8, p. 26.

“He (Mr. W.F. Muhammad, God in person) chose to suffer three and a half years to show his love for his people, who have suffered over three hundred years at the hands of a people who by nature are evil and wicked and have no good in them.  He was persecuted, sent to jail in 1932, and ordered out of Detroit, on May 26, 1933.  He came to Chicago in the same year and was arrested almost immediately on his arrival and placed behind prison bars.”  Ch. 14, p. 30.

“The time has arrived.  The only way to put off for a few more years that total destruction of America is to deal fairly with the Negro.  But, nevertheless, one day it will come, unless she would like to return to Europe instead of sending the Negro back to Africa.  The whole Western Hemisphere belongs to the darker people, and Europe was given to the white people.”  Ch. 26, p. 45.

Elijah Muhammad even mentions Muhammad Ali.  “Watch how anxious the white man is to hold you and call you by his name.  He still would like to call the champion, Cassius Clay, after himself, and he would like to call me Poole, after himself.”  Ch. 26, p. 45.

This is probably too much detail.  Believe it or not, Elijah Muhammad keeps going along these lines for well over 200 pages.

It would be interesting, though painful, for me to investigate these issues further.  I think that I perceive some connections between NoI theology and several other black liberation-type ideologies — Moses James H. Cone, Jeremiah Wright, and the Black Hebrew Israelites.  I must admit, however, that I don’t know enough about any of these ideas to make a firm connection.  I note that they seem similar.

The story of Yakub and NoI theology strike me as . . . how to put this . . highly implausible, as well as quite hateful and racist in an anti-white way.

BLM delenda est.

Published in Religion & Philosophy
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 179 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Manny (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I had not heard it before but it does not surprise me. Even traditional Islam creates these bogus narratives to claim superiority. Nation of Islam is a beast of a higher order.

    You can tell a lot about a religion based on how divisive it is.

    There’s a good deal of truth in the axiom that Islam is a political philosophy disguised as a religion.

    Starting with people realizing that Islam doesn’t mean “peace” it means “submission.”

    • #121
  2. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Manny (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I had not heard it before but it does not surprise me. Even traditional Islam creates these bogus narratives to claim superiority. Nation of Islam is a beast of a higher order.

    You can tell a lot about a religion based on how divisive it is.

    There’s a good deal of truth in the axiom that Islam is a political philosophy disguised as a religion.

    Most religions divide people.  

    • #122
  3. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    What’s the utility of denying that there is such a thing as race?

     

    • #123
  4. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    What’s the utility of denying that there is such a thing as race?

    It might force you to look at more relevant factors for a lot of things we care about, such as ethnicity.  

     

    • #124
  5. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    What’s the utility of denying that there is such a thing as race?

    It might force you to look at more relevant factors for a lot of things we care about, such as ethnicity.

     

    There might be something we should call “race” but I doubt it can be defined by skin tone and yield any significant utility. 

    • #125
  6. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    What’s the utility of denying that there is such a thing as race?

    It might force you to look at more relevant factors for a lot of things we care about, such as ethnicity.

     

    There might be something we should call “race” but I doubt it can be defined by skin tone and yield any significant utility.

    You may not be interested in the distinctions of race.  

    But as we’re seeing now, the distinctions of race are interested in you.

    • #126
  7. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    What’s the utility of denying that there is such a thing as race?

    It might force you to look at more relevant factors for a lot of things we care about, such as ethnicity.

     

    There might be something we should call “race” but I doubt it can be defined by skin tone and yield any significant utility.

    You may not be interested in the distinctions of race.

    But as we’re seeing now, the distinctions of race are interested in you.

    What I see interested in me is Communism.

    • #127
  8. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    What’s the utility of denying that there is such a thing as race?

    It might force you to look at more relevant factors for a lot of things we care about, such as ethnicity.

     

    Our laws about racial discrimination assume that races have an objective existence.  Statistics on “racial underrepresentation” necessarily classify people by race.  If a person objectively classified as white claims to belong to another race, this is treated as fraud.

    Progressives treat races as having an objective existence.  Until it’s to their advantage to muddy the waters by saying the opposite.

    Part of the confusion comes from the fact that we each have a different notion of what a “race“ is. To me, it’s a statistical entity, a group in which frequencies of alleles (gene variants) are similar within the group, but different from other groups.  This is the natural and inevitable result of reproductive isolation:  the groups have been evolving, hybridizing, and genetic drfting mostly independently for tens of thousands of years.

    Reproductive isolation is why the Neanderthal genes that whites and Asians picked up as they moved into Eurasia, tens of thousands of years ago, never found their way back to Africa. And why the Denisovan genes Asians picked up in East Asia never found their way back to Europe or Africa.

    • #128
  9. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Taras (View Comment):
    Part of the confusion comes from the fact that we each have a different notion of what a “race“ is. To me, it’s a statistical entity, a group in which frequencies of alleles (gene variants) are similar within the group, but different from other groups.  This is the natural and inevitable result of reproductive isolation:  the groups have been evolving, hybridizing, and genetic drifting mostly independently for tens of thousands of years.

    Which reminds me that serious scholars usually talk about “populations” rather than “races”. (As distinguished from the clown scholars who may be found in the “Studies” departments.)

    • #129
  10. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I had not heard it before but it does not surprise me. Even traditional Islam creates these bogus narratives to claim superiority. Nation of Islam is a beast of a higher order.

    You can tell a lot about a religion based on how divisive it is.

    There’s a good deal of truth in the axiom that Islam is a political philosophy disguised as a religion.

    Most religions divide people.

    Yes. But the ones that literally dehumanize or demonize the ‘other’ get people killed. 

    • #130
  11. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Shorter version: race may exist, whether you want it to or not.

    Race is a purely intellectual construct. There may be genetic diversity but classification of it is purely an intellectual endeavor. And it serves an intellectual process, for good or evil.

    What’s next, Labradors are the same as Poodles, and think the same, and behave the same? After all, they’re both dogs, and hence indistinguishable?

    Which reminds me of when I pointed out to a liberal that some dog breeds are more intelligent than others.

    He immediately went into a spiel about how border collies have a stimulating environment …

    If, based on the results of extensive, double-blind experiments, the FDA can approve a medicine for one race but not another, it’s difficult to go on claiming race is nothing more than an intellectual construct!

    Human biological diversity may be compared to a mountainous area. To some extent you can decide to divide them into one, two, or three mountain ranges. But the mountains are still there regardless of what you call them.

    On dividing the human race in different ways, somebody once said there are actually seven races of Man, five in the Old Homestead (sub-Saharan Africa) and two outside.

    There don’t have to be LARGE differences between races, for races to nevertheless be A Thing.

    With respect, there are many, large differences between people.  Race is a vague and indistinct way to falsely classify one or two of them.

    • #131
  12. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I had not heard it before but it does not surprise me. Even traditional Islam creates these bogus narratives to claim superiority. Nation of Islam is a beast of a higher order.

    You can tell a lot about a religion based on how divisive it is.

    There’s a good deal of truth in the axiom that Islam is a political philosophy disguised as a religion.

    Most religions divide people.

    Yes. But the ones that literally dehumanize or demonize the ‘other’ get people killed.

    Not all religions. More often, people divide religions.  It’s the human propensity toward factionalism that causes divisions.

    • #132
  13. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):
    Part of the confusion comes from the fact that we each have a different notion of what a “race“ is. To me, it’s a statistical entity, a group in which frequencies of alleles (gene variants) are similar within the group, but different from other groups. This is the natural and inevitable result of reproductive isolation: the groups have been evolving, hybridizing, and genetic drifting mostly independently for tens of thousands of years.

    Which reminds me that serious scholars usually talk about “populations” rather than “races”. (As distinguished from the clown scholars who may be found in the “Studies” departments.)

    But aren’t populations just euphemisms for different races? There are some groups who are genetically different from other groups based on their location. Isn’t that just race with more specific scientific tools?

    • #133
  14. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I had not heard it before but it does not surprise me. Even traditional Islam creates these bogus narratives to claim superiority. Nation of Islam is a beast of a higher order.

    You can tell a lot about a religion based on how divisive it is.

    There’s a good deal of truth in the axiom that Islam is a political philosophy disguised as a religion.

    Most religions divide people.

    Maybe somebody should invent monotheism: one religion for everyone; no more divisions.  

    • #134
  15. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Flicker (View Comment):
    With respect, there are many, large differences between people.  Race is a vague and indistinct way to falsely classify one or two of them.

    With respect. That is scientifically illiterate nonsense and you should research genetics before formulating an opinion. 

    • #135
  16. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    What’s the utility of denying that there is such a thing as race?

    It might force you to look at more relevant factors for a lot of things we care about, such as ethnicity.

    And culture. 

    Perhaps it is cussedness, but when people suggest I am barking up the wrong tree I am more inclined to stop than I am if someone says, ‘nothing to see here, move along’ and is prepared to enforce it. 

    • #136
  17. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    With respect, there are many, large differences between people. Race is a vague and indistinct way to falsely classify one or two of them.

    With respect. That is scientifically illiterate nonsense and you should research genetics before formulating an opinion.

    Look, you believe in pop science and I am a skeptic of most things.  Stop making it personal.  And stop with the ad hominems.

    • #137
  18. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):
    Part of the confusion comes from the fact that we each have a different notion of what a “race“ is. To me, it’s a statistical entity, a group in which frequencies of alleles (gene variants) are similar within the group, but different from other groups. This is the natural and inevitable result of reproductive isolation: the groups have been evolving, hybridizing, and genetic drifting mostly independently for tens of thousands of years.

    Which reminds me that serious scholars usually talk about “populations” rather than “races”. (As distinguished from the clown scholars who may be found in the “Studies” departments.)

    But aren’t populations just euphemisms for different races? There are some groups who are genetically different from other groups based on their location. Isn’t that just race with more specific scientific tools?

    That’s what’s cool about ethnicity. You don’t use just genetics to divide people into warring factions.  There are a lot more possibilities. 

    • #138
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):
    As far as I understand things there is such a thing as ‘race’ and it shows up in some external features and disease susceptibilities

    I agree with you mostly.  However, I don’t know of any so-called race that is 100% susceptible to any given disease.  Other inherited disease potentialities are neither unique to one “race” or expressed within the whole population of any “race”.  Race is like a Venn diagram with no circles.

    • #139
  20. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    As far as I understand things there is such a thing as ‘race’ and it shows up in some external features and disease susceptibilities.

    There are genetic predispositions to some diseases, and there are genetic relationships between people and and peoples, but that doesn’t mean there is such a thing as “race” with sharply defined, consistent boundaries. It can be a fuzzy concept.

    Just as you say.

    • #140
  21. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    As far as I understand things there is such a thing as ‘race’ and it shows up in some external features and disease susceptibilities.

    There are genetic predispositions to some diseases, and there are genetic relationships between people and and peoples, but that doesn’t mean there is such a thing as “race” with sharply defined, consistent boundaries. It can be a fuzzy concept.

    Scholars like Charles Murray do not claim (and never have claimed) that there are sharply defined boundaries.

    Then there are no defined races either, are there.  As I’ve been saying here on Ricochet for years.

    • #141
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    I suppose the utility is that we need race in order to either tout a colorblind society, or to demonize a portion of the population.  Other than that, I see no use for a thing that doesn’t exist.

    • #142
  23. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    As far as I understand things there is such a thing as ‘race’ and it shows up in some external features and disease susceptibilities.

    There are genetic predispositions to some diseases, and there are genetic relationships between people and and peoples, but that doesn’t mean there is such a thing as “race” with sharply defined, consistent boundaries. It can be a fuzzy concept.

    Scholars like Charles Murray do not claim (and never have claimed) that there are sharply defined boundaries.

    Then there are no defined races either, are there. As I’ve been saying here on Ricochet for years.

    No one’s skin is onyx black and with the exception of albinos we all have some melanin. There are still substantial differences between groups however that can be traced to regions and certain alleles. 

    • #143
  24. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    I suppose the utility is that we need race in order to either tout a colorblind society, or to demonize a portion of the population. Other than that, I see no use for a thing that doesn’t exist.

    Medical research and to understand different outcomes between groups. Those aren’t unimportant as I understand it. 

    • #144
  25. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    As far as I understand things there is such a thing as ‘race’ and it shows up in some external features and disease susceptibilities.

    There are genetic predispositions to some diseases, and there are genetic relationships between people and and peoples, but that doesn’t mean there is such a thing as “race” with sharply defined, consistent boundaries. It can be a fuzzy concept.

    Scholars like Charles Murray do not claim (and never have claimed) that there are sharply defined boundaries.

    Then there are no defined races either, are there. As I’ve been saying here on Ricochet for years.

    You lookin’ at me? My wife is Peruvian with DNA saying she is 67% native South American. One of her brothers married an Irish lady, one a French lady, one a Spanish lady, one an American white lady of unknown origin, and one sister married a Hungarian-American gentleman. These couples have 14 children. How do we classify the “race” of those children?

    Oh, I’m pretty much all Northern European.

    • #145
  26. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    TBA (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have read most of this discussion and if it is acknowledged that there is such a thing as “race” what then is the utility of that?

    What’s the utility of denying that there is such a thing as race?

    It might force you to look at more relevant factors for a lot of things we care about, such as ethnicity.

    And culture.

    Perhaps it is cussedness, but when people suggest I am barking up the wrong tree I am more inclined to stop than I am if someone says, ‘nothing to see here, move along’ and is prepared to enforce it.

    Sometimes denying reality is a good thing, like when it keeps you from being burned at the stake.  

    But it can certainly lead to government policies based on fantasy, like Stalin’s hunt for “saboteurs”, because he couldn’t accept socialism was failing.  

    Or Obama’s attack on school discipline, because he couldn’t accept black kids do things to get in trouble more often than white kids do (probably because the black kids are more likely to come from broken homes).

    • #146
  27. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    As far as I understand things there is such a thing as ‘race’ and it shows up in some external features and disease susceptibilities.

    There are genetic predispositions to some diseases, and there are genetic relationships between people and and peoples, but that doesn’t mean there is such a thing as “race” with sharply defined, consistent boundaries. It can be a fuzzy concept.

    Scholars like Charles Murray do not claim (and never have claimed) that there are sharply defined boundaries.

    Then there are no defined races either, are there. As I’ve been saying here on Ricochet for years.

    No one’s skin is onyx black and with the exception of albinos we all have some melanin. There are still substantial differences between groups however that can be traced to regions and certain alleles.

    Oh, by the way, I looked up the Nepalese so-called “race” that has a “different circulatory system”.  Firstly, there is no agreement on actually what is different about the circulatory system, only in the blood’s Hgb level.  And what is more only 60% of Nepalese have the coding that causes any differences in breathing or Hgb levels.  On top of that, a percentage of Han Chinese have the same coding.

    And even the Nepalese Hgb level fluctuate with the elevation the person is living at.

    This is nothing like a separate race, or even a sub-sub-species.  That’s the science.

    • #147
  28. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker
    • #148
  29. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    I don’t watch much TV deliberately, but it is almost impossible to venture out and not see quite a bit in various places like Dentists’ and Doctors’ offices and airports, etc. One thing I have noticed is an enormous increase in the number of persons of color in all roles, commercials and shows. But they are obviously mostly mixed in terms of what is under discussion here so what are we to do about that?

    • #149
  30. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Flicker (View Comment):
    And what is more only 60% of Nepalese have the coding that causes any differences in breathing or Hgb levels.  On top of that, a percentage of Han Chinese have the same coding.

    So different groups tend to have different traits based on their environment? Doesn’t that make my point?

    Some West Africans are more light skinned and some are darker skinned but they as a whole tend to be pretty black because of their environment. This is an important difference from other groups who have evolved lighter skins to better absorb Vitamin D in different climates.

     

    • #150
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.