Yakub and the Origins of the White Race

 

I have an interesting story to tell you.

About 6,600 years ago, all people in the world were black.  They generally lived in peace and harmony, although about 30% were somehow dissatisfied.  At that time, a black scientist named Yakub was living in Mecca.

Yakub led a group of 59,999 followers to the Greek island of Patmos, also called Pelan, where he instituted a human breeding program that lasted 600 years, carried on by his followers after Yakub’s death.  They systematically killed the darker-skinned babies and bred the lighter-skinned babies.  In this way, they selectively bred all of the non-black races: first the brown people, then the red (American Indians), then the yellow (East Asians), and finally the whites.

Yakub was an evil genius whose motives seem a bit unclear.  But he wanted to produce white people, who are devils whose purpose is to persecute and kill the righteous, who are the black nation.

It was prophesied that the white devils, the progeny of Yakub, were destined to rule the earth for 6,000 years.  Jesus condemned them 2,000 years ago.  The white devils were bottled up in Europe for about 1,000 years by Muhammad (may the peace of Allah be upon him) and his successors.

But the white devils have been loose for 400 years.  These devils have tried to deceive the people all over the earth with Christianity, which is a religion organized and backed by the white devils for the purpose of making slaves of black mankind.  The white race was created to be the enemy of black mankind for 6,000 years, but the separation and War of Armageddon are at hand.

We know this because God in person, sometimes called the Messiah or the Mahdi, appeared in America, coming from the Holy City Mecca in 1930.  He was persecuted and jailed in America in the 1930s.  God in person was a black American man named Wallace Fard Muhammad, who taught the religion of peace, Islam.

Has anyone heard this story before?

As far as I can tell, this is the actual theology of the Nation of Islam, as professed by Elijah Muhammad, its long-time leader who died in 1975.  His son, Warith Deen Muhammad, assumed leadership after his death and sought to move the organization toward a more standard Sunni Islam, but this was unsuccessful, and Louis Farrakhan assumed leadership in 1981.  Muhammad Ali (the boxer) was a prominent believer in this theology.  He was honored as the American chosen to light the Olympic torch at the 1996 games in Atlanta.

Until yesterday, I had no idea that these were the beliefs of the Nation of Islam.  I admit that I hadn’t looked into the issue in much detail.  I had the general impression that Farrakhan was a rather odious guy, something of a black supremacist, and often castigated as anti-Semitic (though it’s not clear that NoI theology is more hostile toward Jews than it is toward whites in general).  I heard an outline of this story in Prof. Wilfred Reilly’s fine book, Taboo, which I’ve been enjoying in audio format.

Sources:

There’s a Wikipedia page here about Yakub.  I know, Wikipedia may be dubious, so I looked a bit further.

I found several official Nation of Islam sources supporting the story.  Here is their “Brief history on the origin of the Nation of Islam.” Here is their “A historic look at the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad.”    Here is their “The Muslim Program,” which explains “What The Muslims Want.”  Here is a 2015 article, “Echoes of Mr. Yakup after Patmos,” by the Nation of Islam Research Group.

If you can endure it, here is a pdf version of Elijah Muhammad’s book, “Message To The Blackman in America by Elijah Muhammad (Messenger of Allah).”  Paper versions of the book are available on Amazon (and presumably elsewhere), but I cannot personally attest to the accuracy of the pdf version.

Here are some quotes from Message to the Blackman in America (page references are to the pdf version linked above):

“You originally came from the God of Righteousness and have the opportunity to return, while the devils are from the man devil (Yakub), who has ruled the world for the past 6,000 years under falsehood, labeled under the name of God and His prophets.  The wort thing to ever happen to the devils is: the truth of them made manifest that they are really the devils whom the righteous (all members of the black nation) should shun and never accept as truthful guides of God!  This is why the devils have always persecuted and killed the righteous.  But the time has at last arrived that Allah (God) will put an end to their persecuting and killing the righteous (the black nation).”  Chapter 3, page 18.

“Read and study the above chapter of John 8:42, all of you, who are Christians, believers in the Bible and Jesus, as you say.  If you understand it right, you will agree with me that the whole Caucasian race is a race of devils.  They have proved to be devils in the garden of Paradise and were condemned 4,000 years later by Jesus.  Likewise, they are condemned today, by the Great Mahdi Muhammad, as being nothing but devils in the plainest language.”  Chapter 13, p. 29.

“Your misunderstanding and misinterpretation of it is really the joy of devils.  For it is the devils’ desire to keep the so-called Negroes ignorant of the truth of God until they see it with their eyes.  The truth of God is the salvation and freedom of the so called Negroes from the devils’ power.  Can you blame them?  No!  Blame yourself for being so foolish as to allow the devils to fool you in not accepting the truth after it comes to you.  The devils have tried to deceive the people all over the earth with Christianity, that is, God the Father, Jesus the Son, the Holy Ghost; three Gods into one God.”  Chapter 6, p. 21.

“The greatest hindrance to the truth of our people is the of [sic] Christianity.”  Ch. 8, p. 26.

“Again, know that Jesus was only a prophet and cannot hear you pray any more than Moses or any other dead prophet.  Know, too, that this white race was created to be the enemy of black mankind for 6,000 years, which makes their number to be six.  That is not your number or mine.  We do not have a number, because we have no birth record.  Do not let anyone fool you.  This is the separation and the War of Armageddon.”  Ch. 18, p. 35.

“They were created to rule us for 6,000 years, and then Allah (God) will destroy them from the earth and give the earth back to its original owners — the Black Nation.”  Ch. 53, p. 78.

“Allah, your God, will grant you power to overcome your enemies though their power may look as endurable as the mountains.  Fear not!  Allah is the Best Knower.  Armageddon has started, and after it there will be no Christian religion or churches.  Jesus was a Muslim, not a Christian.”  Ch. 11, p. 28.

“They (white race” are not hostile toward me because I am a Muslim and because I am teaching the true religion, Islam, to my people and the worship of the true and living God who is not a spook, but is flesh and blood (Allah).  They are hostile against me and my followers because were are of the Original Black Race whom they were created to hate from the very beginning of their existence, 6,000 years ago.  They were not created to love respect any member of the darker nations, for they are by nature, as Almighty Allah has taught them, in capable [sic] of loving even themselves.  They cannot produce good, for they are without the nature of good.  They cannot love Allah and His religion Islam, for it is against their nature to submit to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.  All manner of evil and corruption has come from the white race.”  Ch. 54, p. 80.

“According to Allah, the origin of such teachings as a Mystery God is from the devils!  It was taught to them by their father, Yakub, 6,000 years ago.  They know today that God is not a mystery but will not teach it.  He (devil), the god of evil, was made to rule the nations of earth for 6,000 years, and naturally he would not teach obedience to a God other than himself.  So, a knowledge of the true God of Righteousness was not represented by the devils.  The true God was not to be made manifest to the people until the god of evil (devil) has finished or lived out his time, which was allowed to deceive the nations . . ..  The shutting up and loosing of the devil mentioned in Rev. 20:7 could refer to the time between the A.D. 570-1555 when they (John Hawkins) deceived our fathers and brought them to slavery in America, which is nearly 1,000 years that they and Christianity were bottled up in Europe by the spread of Islam and Muhammad (may the peace of Allah be upon him) and his successors.  Their being loose to deceive the nations of the earth would refer to the time (A.D. 1555 to 1955) which they were loose (free) to travel over the earth and deceive the people.”  Ch. 1, p. 16.

“Allah came to us from the Holy City Mecca, Arabia, in 1930.  He used the name Wallace D. Fard, often signing it W.D. Fard, in the third year (1933).  He signed his name W.F. Muhammad which stands for Wallace Fard Muhammad.  He came alone.  He began teaching us the knowledge of ourselves, of God and the devil, of the measurement of the earth, of other planet [sic], and of the civilization of some of the planets other than earth.  He measured and weighed the earth and its water; the history of the moon, the history of the two nations, black and white that dominate the earth.  He gave the enact birth [sic] of the white race, the name of their God who made them and how; and the end of their time, the judgment and how it will begin.”  Ch. 8, p. 25.

“I asked him, ‘Who are you, and what is your real name?’  He said, ‘I am the one that the world has been expecting for 2000 years.’  I said to him again, ‘What is your name?’  He said, “My name is Mahdi; I am God, I came to guide you into the right path that you may be successful and see the hereafter.  He described the destruction of the world with bombs, poison gas, and finally with fire that would consume and destroy everything in the present world.”  Ch. 8, p. 25.

“He condemned the teachings of God not being a man as a lie from the devils for the past 6,000 years; he said that Christianity was a religion organized and backed by the devils for the purpose of making slaves of black mankind.”  Ch. 8, p. 26.

“He (Mr. W.F. Muhammad, God in person) chose to suffer three and a half years to show his love for his people, who have suffered over three hundred years at the hands of a people who by nature are evil and wicked and have no good in them.  He was persecuted, sent to jail in 1932, and ordered out of Detroit, on May 26, 1933.  He came to Chicago in the same year and was arrested almost immediately on his arrival and placed behind prison bars.”  Ch. 14, p. 30.

“The time has arrived.  The only way to put off for a few more years that total destruction of America is to deal fairly with the Negro.  But, nevertheless, one day it will come, unless she would like to return to Europe instead of sending the Negro back to Africa.  The whole Western Hemisphere belongs to the darker people, and Europe was given to the white people.”  Ch. 26, p. 45.

Elijah Muhammad even mentions Muhammad Ali.  “Watch how anxious the white man is to hold you and call you by his name.  He still would like to call the champion, Cassius Clay, after himself, and he would like to call me Poole, after himself.”  Ch. 26, p. 45.

This is probably too much detail.  Believe it or not, Elijah Muhammad keeps going along these lines for well over 200 pages.

It would be interesting, though painful, for me to investigate these issues further.  I think that I perceive some connections between NoI theology and several other black liberation-type ideologies — Moses James H. Cone, Jeremiah Wright, and the Black Hebrew Israelites.  I must admit, however, that I don’t know enough about any of these ideas to make a firm connection.  I note that they seem similar.

The story of Yakub and NoI theology strike me as . . . how to put this . . highly implausible, as well as quite hateful and racist in an anti-white way.

BLM delenda est.

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  1. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Evolution is generally considered to be a process of improvement.

    True, it’s understood that way by people who don’t understand evolution.  Although you can fudge it with certain definitions of the word “improvement.”  

    • #31
  2. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you can come up with a way that “adapts better to its environment” is not improvement, I’d like to hear it. 

    In a Soviet system you can adapt to your environment by joining the party and selling out those of your acquaintance who can’t be of any use to you. That’s an improvement in some respects and not an improvement in others. 

    • #32
  3. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    This is crazy. Everyone knows (or at least should know) that humans evolved from animals; and if you remove the hair from just about any animal, their underlying skin is pale white. Clearly then, the original humans when they lost their covering of fur, were obviously white. This is the scientific reality. This is, as I said, all crazy. Unless you can come up with a different story.

    Or else perhaps race is a meaningless social construct.

    Race is not a meaningless social construct. Charles Murray’s latest book, Human Diversity, is quite convincing on this point. There are substantial, real genetic differences between various human population groups. There are some notable physiological and morphological differences, beyond skin tone.

    It is possible that these genetic differences will cause a difference in the distribution of a variety of traits between different population groups. Some may be taller, or shorter, or faster, or stronger, or better suited to different latitudes or altitudes.

    I don’t think that these differences are a big deal. People should be judged as individuals, not only for moral reasons, but as a matter of reason. If you’re looking for a tall dude, you’re more likely to find one if you pick among Dutchmen rather than Japanese. But a tall Japanese dude is still a tall dude.

    However, the claim that race is a meaningless social construct is empirically false. It is also a propaganda point of the radical Left. I recommend rejecting this claim.

    God’s name is not Murray. And the existence of “race” is not “empirically true”. It is a misguided and misfit mental construct.

    Well, I certainly agree that God’s name is not Murray.

    Beyond that, I guess that we disagree. I find your view quite unreasonable, and based on no evidence whatsoever. I do urge you to read the book, which carefully details the genetic research in this area.

    You know, you can send a sample to 23-and-me, and they’ll tell you your ancestry, not just by major racial group, but by a number of sub-groups. Do you think that this genetic science is “a misguided and misfit mental construct”?

    Empirical science and speculation are two very different things.  One delivers the closest thing to proofs that we can achieve, by reproducible experimentation with yesses and nos, and the other one is informed but unprovable hypothesizing based on the presumptions from one’s preexisting world view.

    • #33
  4. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Evolution is generally considered to be a process of improvement.

    True, it’s understood that way by people who don’t understand evolution. Although you can fudge it with certain definitions of the word “improvement.”

    “Improvement” is a value judgment.  [And an anthropocentric one; coming from human evolutionary pride.  Something that humans can do, but not mindless, purposeless nature.]  And even then is often (actually most often) leads to dead ends.  Think of the moose with antlers so big it only could exist in one environment, and when that environment changed it went extinct.  At least that’s what I read.

    Giant sloths were a different maladaptation entirely. :)

    • #34
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…: I have an interesting story to tell you.

    Wow. That’s some story. My goodness…

    Imagine trying to sit down & reason with someone who really believes that.

    No need to imagine. Every single person of the left believes like that. The specific content of their belief is relatively unimportant.

    Every one of them. That is not hyperbole – that fact could serve as a definition of people of the left. Your lefty friend at work believes like that. Your ditzy sister in law believes like that.

    We have a few people here at Ricochet who have told their story of having lived on the Left and I have not found them to be ditzy. Were they at one time and got over it? Does that mean there is hope?

    The Walk-Away movement covered many cases like that too, until Youtube/Facebook blocked it.

    • #35
  6. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you can come up with a way that “adapts better to its environment” is not improvement, I’d like to hear it.

    In a Soviet system you can adapt to your environment by joining the party and selling out those of your acquaintance who can’t be of any use to you. That’s an improvement in some respects and not an improvement in others.

    Straight biology etc, does not rely on political constructs.

    • #36
  7. DJ EJ Member
    DJ EJ
    @DJEJ

    Thank you for the post. I’ve learned a lot about the NoI that I did not know before. Here are some reactions based on my wheelhouses, theology and archaeology:

    Having been to the island of Patmos, it’s news to me (and Aegean archaeologists) that Yakub and 59,999 followers settled there in approximately 4600 BC, i.e. the Late Neolithic period. This is well after the invention and wide use of ceramics, so one would expect to find ceramics from this period and later throughout the island. However, the earliest ceramic artifacts on Patmos are from the site of Kastelli, and date to the Middle Bronze Age (a.k.a. Middle Minoan period 2100 BC – 1600 BC). Also, 60,000 people living on the island of Patmos would have made it an incredibly dense ancient settlement. The area of the island is only 13.15 sq. miles, and the current population is around 3000. The population density for Yakub’s settlement would have been 4562 people per square mile. Where are the remains of Yakub and his followers’ dwellings (and all their pottery and other artifacts), which by necessity, would have been all over the island.

    The reason I was on Patmos was to visit the Christian sites dedicated to the apostle John (“I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9). The Monastery of Saint John the Theologian, the Cave of the Apocalypse, the fresh seafood, and the quiet beaches are all worth the trip, but I digress.

    Theologically, based on what’s quoted in the OP, the tenets of the NoI are a contradictory mixture of:

    1. Traditional Islam (Allah has no son) with reincarnation (Allah takes on human flesh in the body of W.F. Muhammad/Wallace D. Fard/Mahdi)
    2. Jewish and Christian apocalyptic literature (“Armageddon has started”) and an either purposeful or historically and theologically ignorant misunderstanding of Christianity (e.g. Galatians 3:28)
    3. Modern racial categories anachronistically applied to ancient peoples that most often did not classify people in those terms (language, culture, and religion were typically much more important). The motivations of Yakub and his followers on Patmos to breed out black people in favor of white people relies on modern, and in particular, American racial categories.
    4. Elements of Rastafarianism (white skin is evil/”white devils”) although the NoI may have been first and the Rastafarians got the “white devil” beliefs from them, or they both developed these things independently
    5. (Consciously or unconsciously) the dualistic cosmology of Zoroastrianism, i.e. the battle of light versus dark. In this case, however, dark (skin) is good, and light (skin) is evil.

    One final point – If NoI sacred writings and practice are devoid of hatred for Jews specifically, Louis Farrakhan’s anti-Semitism would appear to be based on his own prejudices and personal racist beliefs.

    • #37
  8. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I once spoke with a member of the Nation of Islam who confirmed this to me. The guy, despite being extremely racist in his beliefs, was polite and did not attack me personally. This is why I think it is silly to say Racism = hatred.

    Regardless, this is what at least some in the NoI believe. There is also a Ufology component where they believe that black people are on Mother Wheels in space, and Farrahkhan talks with them.

    Ezekiel’s Wheels are big in black liberation theology. They are frequently linked with UFOs. The description in Ezekiel is pretty solid for UFO connections, but the symbolism being so big in this group goes back to the 19th century.

    • #38
  9. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Race is not a meaningless social construct. Charles Murray’s latest book, Human Diversity, is quite convincing on this point. There are substantial, real genetic differences between various human population groups. There are some notable physiological and morphological differences, beyond skin tone.

     

    Then why all this fuss using skin tone as the focal point?

    It’s easy to see.

    • #39
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DJ EJ (View Comment):

    Having been to the island of Patmos, it’s news to me (and Aegean archaeologists) that Yakub and 59,999 followers settled there in approximately 4600 BC, i.e. the Late Neolithic period. This is well after the invention and wide use of ceramics, so one would expect to find ceramics from this period and later throughout the island. However, the earliest ceramic artifacts on Patmos are from the site of Kastelli, and date to the Middle Bronze Age (a.k.a. Middle Minoan period 2100 BC – 1600 BC). Also, 60,000 people living on the island of Patmos would have made it an incredibly dense ancient settlement. The area of the island is only 13.15 sq. miles, and the current population is around 3000. The population density for Yakub’s settlement would have been 4562 people per square mile. Where are the remains of Yakub and his followers’ dwellings (and all their pottery and other artifacts), which by necessity, would have been all over the island.

    The reason I was on Patmos was to visit the Christian sites dedicated to the apostle John (“I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9). The Monastery of Saint John the Theologian, the Cave of the Apocalypse, the fresh seafood, and the quiet beaches are all worth the trip, but I digress.

    Theologically, based on what’s quoted in the OP, the tenets of the NoI are a contradictory mixture of:

    1. Traditional Islam (Allah has no son) with reincarnation (Allah takes on human flesh in the body of W.F. Muhammad/Wallace D. Fard/Mahdi)
    2. Jewish and Christian apocalyptic literature (“Armageddon has started”) and an either purposeful or historically and theological ignorant misunderstanding of Christianity (e.g. Galatians 3:28)
    3. Modern racial categories anachronistically applied to ancient peoples that most often did not classify people in those terms (language, culture, and religion were typically much more important). The motivations of Yakub and his followers on Patmos to breed out black people in favor of white people relies on modern, and in particular, American racial categories.
    4. Elements of Rastafarianism (white skin is evil/”white devils”) although the NoI may have been first and the Rastafarians got the “white devil” beliefs from them, or they both developed these things independently
    5. (Consciously or unconsciously) the dualistic cosmology of Zoroastrianism, i.e. the battle of light versus dark. In this case, however, dark (skin) is good, and light (skin) is evil.

    One final point – If NoI sacred writings and practice are devoid of hatred for Jews specifically, Louis Farrakhan’s anti-Semitism would appear to be based on his own prejudices and personal racist beliefs.

    Short version/translation:  You’re obviously a racist islamophobe.  :-)

    • #40
  11. DJ EJ Member
    DJ EJ
    @DJEJ

    kedavis (View Comment):

    One final point – If NoI sacred writings and practice are devoid of hatred for Jews specifically, Louis Farrakhan’s anti-Semitism would appear to be based on his own prejudices and personal racist beliefs.

    Short version/translation: You’re obviously a racist islamophobe. :-)

    Ha! Yeah, something like that.

    • #41
  12. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Stina (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Race is not a meaningless social construct. Charles Murray’s latest book, Human Diversity, is quite convincing on this point. There are substantial, real genetic differences between various human population groups. There are some notable physiological and morphological differences, beyond skin tone.

     

    Then why all this fuss using skin tone as the focal point?

    It’s easy to see.

    Maybe in today’s intellectual economy this means nothing, but there are far more genetic, morphological and psychological differences between the sexes than between the so-called races.

    • #42
  13. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you can come up with a way that “adapts better to its environment” is not improvement, I’d like to hear it.

    In a Soviet system you can adapt to your environment by joining the party and selling out those of your acquaintance who can’t be of any use to you. That’s an improvement in some respects and not an improvement in others.

    Straight biology etc, does not rely on political constructs.

    Artificially prolonging life to reach sexual maturity and reproduction through medical technology CAN create devolution because adaptation to environment isn’t necessary.

    To add: Also, artificially extending reproductive abilities can also contribute because of age of biological material.

    • #43
  14. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Stina (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Race is not a meaningless social construct. Charles Murray’s latest book, Human Diversity, is quite convincing on this point. There are substantial, real genetic differences between various human population groups. There are some notable physiological and morphological differences, beyond skin tone.

     

    Then why all this fuss using skin tone as the focal point?

    It’s easy to see.

    Ain’t that the truth. And in today’s educational approach, with screens and earphones, the young are taught to rely on what they see and hear rather than taught how to think.

    • #44
  15. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Race is not a meaningless social construct. Charles Murray’s latest book, Human Diversity, is quite convincing on this point. There are substantial, real genetic differences between various human population groups. There are some notable physiological and morphological differences, beyond skin tone.

     

    Then why all this fuss using skin tone as the focal point?

    It’s easy to see.

    Maybe in today’s intellectual economy this means nothing, but there are far more genetic, morphological and psychological differences between the sexes than between the so-called races.

    Yes. And truth in advertising was promoted instead of demonized…

    • #45
  16. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The Walk-Away movement covered many cases like that too, until Youtube/Facebook blocked it.

    Oh?

    • #46
  17. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you can come up with a way that “adapts better to its environment” is not improvement, I’d like to hear it.

    In a Soviet system you can adapt to your environment by joining the party and selling out those of your acquaintance who can’t be of any use to you. That’s an improvement in some respects and not an improvement in others.

    Straight biology etc, does not rely on political constructs.

    Are you saying politics isn’t a product of biology? 

    • #47
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The Walk-Away movement covered many cases like that too, until Youtube/Facebook blocked it.

    Oh?

    You never heard of Walk(ing)-Away?

    • #48
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Stina (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you can come up with a way that “adapts better to its environment” is not improvement, I’d like to hear it.

    In a Soviet system you can adapt to your environment by joining the party and selling out those of your acquaintance who can’t be of any use to you. That’s an improvement in some respects and not an improvement in others.

    Straight biology etc, does not rely on political constructs.

    Artificially prolonging life to reach sexual maturity and reproduction through medical technology CAN create devolution because adaptation to environment isn’t necessary.

    I don’t like to bring this up because it can generate moral arguments and because of the arguments made against doctors (telling women that this procedure is necessary when it is argued that it often is not) but women’s lives lost during labor has diminished greatly since the use of the C-section.  I wonder if this is making even larger segments of the population now dependent on this surgery.

    • #49
  20. EB Thatcher
    EB
    @EB

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The Walk-Away movement covered many cases like that too, until Youtube/Facebook blocked it.

    Oh?

    You never heard of Walk(ing)-Away?

    They had some great videos.  Probably why YouTube/Facebook block them.

    • #50
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    EB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The Walk-Away movement covered many cases like that too, until Youtube/Facebook blocked it.

    Oh?

    You never heard of Walk(ing)-Away?

    They had some great videos. Probably why YouTube/Facebook block them.

    Indeed.  I especially remember one by a young nurse who turned away from abortion, as well as the Democrats.

    • #51
  22. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…: I have an interesting story to tell you.

    Wow. That’s some story. My goodness…

    Imagine trying to sit down & reason with someone who really believes that.

    No one really believes it. It’s an example of the strange capacity of human beings to believe that they believe something without actually believing it. Very few if any adherents of this belief would actually bet anything of value on it actually being true, which means they don’t actually believe it. Accepting the belief gives them a sense of purpose and belonging in a group. It serves that purpose even though at some level the “believer” doesn’t assent to the belief in the way that they would assent to the belief, for example, that the world is round.

    This is why it’s impossible to reason someone out of such a belief: at the level of reason, they don’t believe it to begin with.

    That is food for thought. Or lack of, as the case may be. 

    • #52
  23. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Manny (View Comment):

    I had not heard it before but it does not surprise me. Even traditional Islam creates these bogus narratives to claim superiority. Nation of Islam is a beast of a higher order.

    You can tell a lot about a religion based on how divisive it is. 

    • #53
  24. Dotorimuk Coolidge
    Dotorimuk
    @Dotorimuk

    Be careful, lest ye incur…the wrath of Farrakhan:

    • #54
  25. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The Walk-Away movement covered many cases like that too, until Youtube/Facebook blocked it.

    Oh?

    You never heard of Walk(ing)-Away?

    Yes, I’ve heard the term here on Ricochet.

    • #55
  26. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you can come up with a way that “adapts better to its environment” is not improvement, I’d like to hear it.

    In a Soviet system you can adapt to your environment by joining the party and selling out those of your acquaintance who can’t be of any use to you. That’s an improvement in some respects and not an improvement in others.

    Straight biology etc, does not rely on political constructs.

    Artificially prolonging life to reach sexual maturity and reproduction through medical technology CAN create devolution because adaptation to environment isn’t necessary.

    I don’t like to bring this up because it can generate moral arguments and because of the arguments made against doctors (telling women that this procedure is necessary when it is argued that it often is not) but women’s lives lost during labor has diminished greatly since the use of the C-section. I wonder if this is making even larger segments of the population now dependent on this surgery.

    Probably? As with most interventionism and lots of tools, etc. 

    To a large degree humans have opted out of ‘survival of the fittest’ because survival isn’t especially hard for us – though it is getting harder for many other creatures as a result. 

    I don’t want to make hay with this as such hay quickly gets us into the weeds. 

    • #56
  27. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you can come up with a way that “adapts better to its environment” is not improvement, I’d like to hear it.

    In a Soviet system you can adapt to your environment by joining the party and selling out those of your acquaintance who can’t be of any use to you. That’s an improvement in some respects and not an improvement in others.

    Straight biology etc, does not rely on political constructs.

    Artificially prolonging life to reach sexual maturity and reproduction through medical technology CAN create devolution because adaptation to environment isn’t necessary.

    I don’t like to bring this up because it can generate moral arguments and because of the arguments made against doctors (telling women that this procedure is necessary when it is argued that it often is not) but women’s lives lost during labor has diminished greatly since the use of the C-section. I wonder if this is making even larger segments of the population now dependent on this surgery.

    I wasn’t really making a value statement so much as pointing out a side effect of technology.

    I think it’s admirable that we have found ways to save vulnerable lives. But I’m also rather antagonistic to a goal of immortality.

    • #57
  28. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Stina (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you can come up with a way that “adapts better to its environment” is not improvement, I’d like to hear it.

    In a Soviet system you can adapt to your environment by joining the party and selling out those of your acquaintance who can’t be of any use to you. That’s an improvement in some respects and not an improvement in others.

    Straight biology etc, does not rely on political constructs.

    Artificially prolonging life to reach sexual maturity and reproduction through medical technology CAN create devolution because adaptation to environment isn’t necessary.

    I don’t like to bring this up because it can generate moral arguments and because of the arguments made against doctors (telling women that this procedure is necessary when it is argued that it often is not) but women’s lives lost during labor has diminished greatly since the use of the C-section. I wonder if this is making even larger segments of the population now dependent on this surgery.

    I wasn’t really making a value statement so much as pointing out a side effect of technology.

    I think it’s admirable that we have found ways to save vulnerable lives. But I’m also rather antagonistic to a goal of immortality.

    If I assigned value, it was in favor of health and wellness.  But I was just pointing out that science and alleviating suffering may be making us more fragile.  Frankly, my guess (as “unscientific” as it may be) is that we as the human race were created perfect, including genetically, but just as sin entering the world created thorns and thistles and creatures that ate one another, so has it created general genetic devolution in humankind.

    • #58
  29. Captain French Moderator
    Captain French
    @AlFrench

    Flicker (View Comment):

    This is crazy. Everyone knows (or at least should know) that humans evolved from animals; and if you remove the hair from just about any animal, their underlying skin is pale white. Clearly then, the original humans when they lost their covering of fur, were obviously white. This is the scientific reality. This is, as I said, all crazy. Unless you can come up with a different story.

    Or else perhaps race is a meaningless social construct.

    Polar bears have black skin.

    • #59
  30. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I once spoke with a member of the Nation of Islam who confirmed this to me.  The guy, despite being extremely racist in his beliefs, was polite and did not attack me personally.  This is why I think it is silly to say Racism = hatred.

    I had a similar conversation with a member of the Fruit of Islam in DC, who was handing out literature outside the grocery store. He was polite and the sentiments were not personal. This was just how it was, and while I may have been a devil in the abstract collective sense, he did not ascribe deviltry to me at the moment, and took it as his calling to inform me of things I should know. Love the sinner, hate the sin – which in this case was intrinsic, not willfully joined, but details, details. 

    Membership in the NoI ought to be regarded with a cocked-Spock eyebrow, but I think they get a pass in the media because A) the ideology is regarded as just more religious nonsense, all of it being nonsense (I had an editor tell me that Yakub was no less plausible than Jesus, which was the rational atheist’s response) and B) the message of empowerment and self-respect has salutary effects. 

    • #60
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