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Are Never Trumpers OK with the Destruction of Evidence by Mueller’s Team?
I just don’t get it. Never Trumpers have gone on and on and on about how Mueller was on to something, but just could not prove it. Mueller did not exonerate Trump, etc.
Well.
If Mueller was that and a bag of chips, and his crew were as pure a the driven snow, how on Earth can they justify the destruction of evidence? These people all managed to “accidentally” destroy evidence. Come on.
Maybe some of our legal experts in the community could weigh in on how the destruction of evidence is a crime.
I’d love to hear from the pro-Mueller crowd on this. Y’all have been so behind this man, and still think Trump colluded with Russia to fix the election, despite no strong evidence it happened. I dare you to explain how this sort of very strong evidence of malfeasance, this criminal activity by the team doing the investigation is OK and has no bearing at all on the investigation. Because my belief is that anyone investigator that destroys evidence is an investigator that is building a lie.
Change my mind.
Published in General
We said Never Trump, you made it a demonym. And NR’s special issue was “Against Trump.” Know your history.
Trump supporters expect civility from others but not from themselves or their leader, or they wouldn’t be Trump supporters. Like the left they think they are part of a special victim class, and on the basis of that victimization are entitled to throw bombs and call fowl when receiving them.
Civility is for citizens. Act like one. For tribalists it’s just taken as the opponent walking into bargain basement rhetorical traps like “are you OK with (insert real or imagined malign action of tribal hate object with whom, in the tribalist’s mind you are already inextricably linked.)”
All black lives matter. All human lives matter. Not just those used to support a Marxist organization.
But by all means, you prove my point. You refuse to condemn the deliberate destruction of evidence. Even Gary was able to say it is bad if not justified.
And you continue to ascribe motivations to me that I don’t have. Not sure that is kosher.
Uh, it still requires approval by one of the higher-ups. And you understand the management of this site hates the President as much as you do, right?
You really are stating that nothing we are arguing is in good faith. I find that to be the uncivil thing here. You are the one name calling, and frankly, not making any new points at all. If you don’t want to answer the OP, please feel free not too. I will make my judgement on your character based on that.
Dennis and Gary:
What the zark is “Trumpism”?
The management of this site does not hate Trump supporters as much as Dennis does though. They can be downright friendly.
I join in the statements of Dennis Garcia.
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Your statement seems to be that Marxists and NeverTrumpers support Biden, therefore I am aligned with Marxists. Defend yourself sir, or you have admitted that you are a Marxist or at least a fellow traveler!
Okay. Let’s ask this. QAnon, David Duke and you support Trump. That that mean that you are aligned with QAnon and David Duke? Defend yourself sir!
It was a named owned by Never Trump. I have seen it used proudly in these pages. If people call themselves something, then it is reasonable to use that to label them. And if people form a “tribe” around it, why then, that is on them.
Honestly, Dennis, you sound like one of those “I am a citizen of the world” types. Everything is a tribe in some level, including political parties. We all put ourselves into various groupings that by your logic are all tribes.
I know it when I see it.
Orange Man Good.
Who are these white supremacists you’re talking about? Even the media-creation of Whatsisname Spencer couldn’t fill a room with more than 200 people. “White Supremacists” are a phantom threat. I can’t take you seriously. There aren’t enough white supremacists in this country to be concerned about, and the ones that do exist aren’t organized enough to cause any serious trouble. Meanwhile we’ve got BLM rampaging through our cities, ambushing and executing police officers, under the cover of favorable media coverage, and the anti-Trumpers are all “But Q-Anon!”
Ah. Thank you for demonstrating “civility” to us.
I reject that response. You use the term all the time. Either define it, or your use of it demonstrates that you have no legitimate arguments.
The OP does not mention Marxism. Or Liberals. Or Democrats. It calls out pro-Mueller people and Never Trumpers (who are Republicans or former Republicans by definition).
You Gary, have been in support of Mueller and have said his report supports collusion with Trump. I have never supported any of these other people or groups. Again, you are on record as having supported Mueller and spoken in favor of his report.
So let me try again. If erasing the data was not justified, what does that tell us about the investigators? If you were defending someone in a case where the prosecution destroyed evidence, wouldn’t you use that to call their case into question? This is a perfectly valid question. The only reason I can think of that you avoid answering is that you know it undermines the case that the Mueller team was above board in its pursuit of Trump, just like it would in a criminal case.
My point was that @bryangstephens is adopting the left’s habits of thought. If you don’t take it seriously from the left, don’t take it seriously from the right.
Q-Anon! David Duke! So predictable! So empty!
Meanwhile, you actually align yourself with Marxists. The Democrat party’s shock troops are destroying America, actually killing people, and you’re all “But David Duke!”
What the zark is Q-Anon?! How big of a threat does it actually pose? Or is it just a distraction from the real threat facing our country:
These are the people you are aligning yourself with.
That’s because I’m a citizen of the United States of America which to you is as distant of the world. I will put no faction above my county. I will not anathematize my fellow citizens. I will not engage in us-versus-them thinking. I will judge arguments on their merits, not based on the race, sex, or sexuality of the arguer as the left does, nor their class, geography or political affiliation as the right does.
@Garyrobbins was going along with the fiction that this post is about what it claims to be about, by commenting on Mueller. He’s a gentleman for doing so, but I differ in regard to tactics.
You may not be interested in us-versus-them thinking, but us-versus-them thinking is interested in you.
Gosh, I’ll put my family and faith ahead of America in a heartbeat.
And
Nothing in your statement stops you from being able to answer if you think the destruction of evidence is OK. I am not asking you to own up to the idea that 31 people on an investigation team that led to people being prosecuted for lesser crimes shows that the team might have something horribly wrong with it. You refuse, flat out refuse to decry the destruction of evidence on even general principles.
On its merits, destruction of evidence is wrong. If you really acted on what you believed you might be able to follow up.
My definition of Orange Man Good is probably appropriate.
Just as “Orange Man Bad” nevertrumpers can’t give credit to Trump for anything positive, Trumpism aka Orange Man Good would be everything Trump does, no matter how stupid or counterproductive is praised as genius or 6-dimensional chess.
That’s from the political/personality side.
If you’re asking about “Trumpism” from the policy side, I’d say that for the most part Trump has been governing as the bastard lovechild of the early 60s JFK democrats and the mid 80s Gephardt Democrats.
If Trump and his cohorts had erased 30+ cellphones in the course of the investigation, what would the OMB types be saying?
There, fixed it for you!
Nothing else seems to matter, at least not to Gary.
Office of Management and Budget?
I see what you did there!
Or at any rate, Orange Man Better Than The Alternative.
Orange Man Bad.
I’d like to point to perverse incentives. Bryan has another post on the Main Feed that has 16 comment. This post which includes the name “NeverTrump” has 146 comments.
How odd. I should have figured that, but I saw OMG as the old-fashioned Oh My God and that short-circuited something.
For perverse incentives, how about that your “Posts Of The Week” still have less than 10 likes?