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Are Never Trumpers OK with the Destruction of Evidence by Mueller’s Team?
I just don’t get it. Never Trumpers have gone on and on and on about how Mueller was on to something, but just could not prove it. Mueller did not exonerate Trump, etc.
Well.
If Mueller was that and a bag of chips, and his crew were as pure a the driven snow, how on Earth can they justify the destruction of evidence? These people all managed to “accidentally” destroy evidence. Come on.
Maybe some of our legal experts in the community could weigh in on how the destruction of evidence is a crime.
I’d love to hear from the pro-Mueller crowd on this. Y’all have been so behind this man, and still think Trump colluded with Russia to fix the election, despite no strong evidence it happened. I dare you to explain how this sort of very strong evidence of malfeasance, this criminal activity by the team doing the investigation is OK and has no bearing at all on the investigation. Because my belief is that anyone investigator that destroys evidence is an investigator that is building a lie.
Change my mind.
Published in General
If people wiped their phones, they will have to justify it. If they can’t justify it, then they are wrong. However, this has nothing to do with me being a NeverTrumper.
You have another post on the Main Feed that I disagree with, however I have not entered the fray as it speaks about “Both Parties” and not “NeverTrumpers.“. If you had used the word “NeverTrumpers” in the title, I would have joined in.
You donate too and vote for Democrats, Gary. Trump is the head of the GOP. He donates too, and votes for Republicans. And he is on the GOP ticket.
You may be registered Republican, but so is Trump. By any objective analysis, Trump is more of a Republican than you are.
I guess I must still be beating my wife then, since I would be less than inclined to “answer the charge” that I was still doing so.
Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence.
Thank you. So you agree that destruction of evidence is wrong and if tehy cannot justify it, they are wrong. OK.
Now, Gary, why might investigators destroy evidence? Or to put it another way, if you are defending someone in court and the prosecutors destroy evidence, would you not raise an objection? Or if you were prosecuting someone, would you go after a person fir destruction of evidence?
It seems to me that these actions, unless justified, point to a cover up. The fact 31 people did it points to collusion in the cover up.
If fact, them doing this calls into question any veracity to any accusations made by these investigators. I am sure, if you were defending a client, thismis the argument you would make.
Nothing is the OP is like that. All you have to do is say it is not OK. Of course, if it not OK, then it presents a problem for those supporting Mueller.
I do not see how this involves NeverTrumpers. You have a valid point. Why target me, or other NeverTrumpers? I did not have a dog in this fight until you drug me in by referring to NeverTrumpers.
You, specifically have supported Mueller and declare he found proof of collusion.
So, it calls into question his team, which calls into question his findings.
And, I did not call you out by name Gary. You self identified yourself into this discussion.
That anyoneone is “supporting Mueller,” or that that formulation makes the slightest bit of sense given that he’s not running for anything, or that misdeeds by the investigators somehow erase the impetus for the investigation, are some of the conclussory assumptions on which your op rests. That’s the beating part.
Think what you want but don’t think that you’ve asked a question. You’ve only created a closed system in which your opponents are allowed to either repeat a set of magic words which you’ve prepared, which you would treat as a symbolic submission and loss of status on their part and use to shore up the rest of your worldview, or “avoid the question” which you would fill with similar meaning. Either way your priors are confirmed, your “virtue” signalled and the tribal status games go on.
Take this quarter, call your mother, and tell her you don’t know how to start a conversation.
It is clear you are more interested in insults that the actual challenge of my post. If you are so sure of your worldview, defend it, don’t be uncivil.
This post is uncivil. Don’t come with acid and expect to be treated with honey.
The fact it was promoted says otherwise.
Spicy, absolutely.
Cheers.
This site was dead the moment they handed the keys to the inmates with the recommendation system. This post is proof.
Ultimately, this is another example of where the nation is. With norms being destroyed in the naked pursuit of power. The Democrats have always been about that, with Wilson and FDR as early forces.
Now, here we are, with this, and people are reluctant to condemn it. The very people engaged in an investigation that has proscuted people based on a difference of recollection has had its members wipe out their phones. Does anyone want to claim had a memeber of thr Trump administration wiped a phone that they would have been prosecuted? Does anyone actually think Never Trumpers would have just shrugged at that? Of course not.
So this shows clearly, that there is no vice in the pursuit of Trump for some people.
Well, this is how it works. Members can recommend a post to be promoted but the editors still have the final decision on whether to promote it.
But, of course, if you consider the site to be “dead” I don’t believe anyone has shackled you and forced you to stick around.
As to the validity of the post – I personally believe that NeverTrumpers aren’t simply playing a parlor game on proper political etiquette and thus are offended by the Orange Man Bad but they should be challenged on every issue that arises because they’ve thrown their support behind Biden and the radical Democrat agenda, because these challenges can reveal their duplicity and the fact that they are an existential threat to the republic because they put the importance of the Republican Party before the fate of the nation. That they do so in such a condescending way, claiming some higher moral authority is also repugnant. They should be called out on every issue and often.
Well said.
Our own little twitter mob- isn’t it lovely?- where one is never allowed to forget what the popular position is.
I pay my dues to support the podcasts which remain of high quality. There are nonpolitical posts still which can result in a genuine conversation. And sometimes I feel like screaming into the void, which is what the political threads have become.
Read your last paragraph back to yourself slowly. You’ve set up Nevertrumpers, as an Emmanual Goldstein or ceremonial jew, a scapegoat onto which all the problems of the world can be cast to avoid the shadow of introspection and deny any faults to big brother. That’s not argument it’s ritual. It’s not citizenship it’s tribalism.
Calling us racist is sort of par for the course, no?
Having been here since day one, I remember when the Trump supporters were well outnumbered. And even then, the anti Trump forces treated us with contempt. Now, most have change sides. I hardly think they all joined a cult or a tribe. Indeed, this is more of the same. The implications are that people cannot rationally support Trump. That has been the line against Trump supporters from day one.
And it has nothjng to do with destruction of evidence. Do you think it is Ok for investigators to destroy evidence?
Not in this instance. You’ve certainly settled on your own particular form of hatred. I’m glad of it. The Jews have born the brunt of tribal animosity and insecurity for too long. If we goyish nevertrumpers can take some of the weight off their shoulders, that’s a good thing.
Do black lives matter? We don’t say the words because we know what they mean. “I submit to the mob!”
Membership in the Republican Party is purely an exercise in individual self-identification, Trump identifies as a Republican, ergo Trump is as much of a Republican as you are. This second matter, though, this is concerning. Why would limited government conservatives be hiding from Trump? Or is something more sinister afoot? Has the near extinction come about because something nefarious has occurred? Are they tied up in your basement, perhaps? Because otherwise I can see no basis for your statement. And I suspect, given the federal budgetary trends since the election of W, that there is no longer a viable population of limited government conservatives in the wild.
If you truly love Reagan, I beseech you to release the captives.
This is quite laughable. I never said that NeverTrumpers were solely responsible for the potential demise of the nation. You may wish to read more carefully. Really, all one has to do is read the screeds of NeverTrumpers, particularly on organs like The Bulwark, or from such luminaries as Bill Kristol, Max Boot, or Rick Wilson to realize that these brilliant minds have set themselves up for very justifiable criticism since they’ve embraced the opposite of anything that Bill Buckley or Ronald Reagan believed or stood for. I’m simply pointing out their duplicity and dishonesty.
It is submitting to the mob to agree there is something wrong with 31 people wiping their phones?
You really are making odd conflations of things. First you compare to racists, now we are a mob of anarchists?
All I am asking for is if the destruction of evidence is OK or not. If you say it is not OK, then yes, I will follow up on any support you may show for the investigation. If you say it is OK, then yes, I will hold you to account on why in this case it is OK, but that Flynn was prosecuted for a disagreement on recollection, even when the men who interviewed him did not think he was lying.
So, you are right that no matter how a Never Trumper or Mueller supporter answers, it undermines his position. But that is because the facts support me. If someone is in fact a wife beater, the question “When did you stop beating your wife” is valid. If someone supports the Mueller investigation, then one has to confront the fact that they destroyed evidence for some reason. To any reasonable person, this looks fishy.
All I am asking for is if the loss of black lives is OK or not. If you say it is not OK, then yes, I will follow up on any support you show for the police, if not I will hold you to account for white supremacy, by filling in what I assume you believe about unrelated cases.
So, you are right that no matter how a White Supremecist or Trump supporter answers, it undermines his position. But that is because the facts support me. If someone supports locking immigrant children in cages and gunning down unarmed black citizens then they must ignore the value of non-white lives. To any reasonable person, this looks fishy.
I personally believe that the running dogs of western capitalism aren’t simply playing a parlor game on proper diplomatic etiquette and thus are offended by Chairman Mao but they should be challenged on every issue that arises because they’ve thrown their support behind the Americans and their imperialist allies, because these challenges can reveal their duplicity and the fact that they are an existential threat to the people’s revolution because they put their own greed before the fate of the nation. That they do so in such a condescending way, claiming some higher moral authority is also repugnant. They should be called out on every issue and often.
Happy to discuss any position that NeverTrumpers hold that you agree with provided that you can do so without claiming that I’m scapegoating or behaving in a tribalistic manner. By the way, when NeverTrumpers adopt that name, are they creating their own tribe?
I can’t claim what isn’t true. You created the tribe when you gave us the name. That some have sunk to your level is unfortunate, but no defence of Trumpism, though of course it is used as such.
I can’t like this as much as I would like.
The name was created by contributors to National Review magazine (I think I still have the issue gathering dust somewhere). Know your history.
Pretty sure I’ve made some quite salient points on specific claims or positions held by those who place themselves in the NeverTrump tribe.
But if you’d prefer not to discuss any of those in a civil manner, I understand.
Oh, I understood the reference. You just didn’t understand its significance .