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Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, Western Civ is Going to Go!
My husband, my youngest daughter, and I had lunch with an old friend yesterday. He and I were known to have heated arguments back when we were more politically in-sync, which, I daresay, we both enjoyed immensely. While he still adheres to atheistic liberalism, I’ve converted both religiously and politically. Paradoxically, our conversations seem to be more measured and substantive, although I still win 99 percent of the disputes – just ask me.
In the course of our conversation, he cracked a joke about selecting swimwear and potentially looking good in a burkini. This led to a discussion of France’s somewhat feeble attempts to push back against the assertion of Muslim culture by banning the veil and, now, the controversial initiative to ban the burkini. Our friend asserted there are only two realistic approaches to take on the cultural tensions extant when Muslims move into western societies: 1) Try to retain the western values of pluralism and religious tolerance in an open society while “leaving the door open for compromises,” or 2) Expel the alien ideological element and combat it wherever it is found. I demurred.
There is a third option, which is the course we’re currently pursuing: the West can simply lie down and die.
Something I said really touched a nerve, because our friend became very animated and heatedly asked me, “You really believe, in a hundred years, the West will be overrun?” He was absolutely confident that what we’re witnessing in the way of cultural jihad (from Islamic supremacists on one side and leftists on the other) is not a trend and I’m dead wrong to believe Western Civilization is vulnerable.
That was before I informed him about Sharia courts given the authority to settle civil disputes in Great Britain and many municipalities in Canada (because the Jews and the Catholics already had them, so Muslims must have them too!), and the abrogation of the Anglo common-law tradition. Neither was he aware of the video taken (by a very brave youngster, I assume) in the madrassa in Great Britain where high school students recite the punishments for homosexuality (throw them off a high place, and then stone them) and apostasy (kill them). H/t: @pseudodionysius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzEm4xuBhqg
Still, he insisted, I’m wrong to think the West is dying. Unfortunately, our time together was short and I had to leave, but I parted with this thought: In order to sustain a culture, the people must understand and love their heritage (Westerners are either ignorant or ashamed), must live by its values (we’re increasingly secular and relativistic), and even be willing to die for its principles. Most westerners are too soft to assert the superiority of our culture, with the exception being Christians and conservatives. <mic drop>
Now, how is any of this relevant to the 2016 Election (because every worthwhile discussion must be related to Trump vs Clinton)? The real contest is between Christianity and its two mortal enemies: Islam and leftism. They know it and most Christians (who are not also leftists) know it. NeverTrumpers? Not so much.
Why do I assert this? After mentally replaying my conversation with our friend and trying to discover the pattern that would explain the NeverTrump position, I noticed that the NeverTrumpers align almost identically with secular “conservatives” who are soft on social/cultural issues like abortion and SSM. On these subjects, they largely agree with the anti-Christian Left.
I don’t mean to suggest NeverTrumpers are themselves anti-Christian, only that their unfamiliarity with the Christian religious tradition may amke them unaware of the danger of their alliance with the Left to Christianity and, therefore, Western Civilization.
Published in GeneralLet nothing disturb you,
Let nothing frighten you,
All things are passing away:
God never changes.
Patience obtains all things
Whoever has God lacks nothing;
God alone suffices.
— St. Teresa of Avila
Well, @EB, I don’t think you answered my question. Or, you inadvertently made my point for me. I was trying to understand how you refute the claim that someone who normally votes Republican and refuses to vote for Trump is actually helping Hillary get elected.
And, secondarily, if you quietly voted your conscience (for neither), that would be one thing. But by waving the NeverTrump flag so persistently, it seems to me NeverTrumpers are trying to influence others. I don’t see how it’s deniable, but I could be slow-witted. Thus the request for explanation.
Wow, @fredcole, if you’re going to make a claim like that, I think you’re on the hook to provide some supporting evidence — not just things he’s said, but scandals he’s been involved with where he abused the power of the state and people ended up in jail or dead.
Yikes, who said anything about “owning” it? I’m speaking more about identity and affiliation here. There are elements within western societies which are hostile to western ideas and values. No?
One of these would be sharia-adherent Muslims who desire (and demand and are often appeased) to be excused from the western common-law tradition. Another would be leftists who identify as “citizens” of the world and have contempt for the ideas of limited government and the possibility of a healthy nationalism.
Can you name a third?
You first.
I think I already did.
Some of these would argue they’re an expression of the Western tradition – and to be fair, they didn’t drop here from the sky. Every expression of a tradition isn’t necessarily great.
A) For example?
B) Straw man. No one said every tradition is great. But someone who has a problem with common law or who advocates rule by remote, unelected, bureaucratic elites (which is becoming more and more common and is inherently hostile to democratic self-government), for example, could rightly be described as an opponent of the western tradition — at least in its American expression.
I agree with this. But then you say I need to vote for one of them. That’s where I get confused.
Nuts
I think the distinction between ignorance and hostility is worth making, don’t you?
I also don’t understand how NeverTrumpers rationalize away the fact that Hillary Clinton is hardwired into the democratic socialist power grid and has been for 30 years. She has all the influential “idea” outlets on her side (“news” media, “entertainment” media, academia…). Trump has none of this. He’s an outsider (which isn’t to say he hasn’t bought influence before… he’s just never been in a government position to be paid for it).
Ha! Exactly what I’ve wanted to post on most of Claire’s threads recently.
You answer your own question. The EU’s bureaucracy, for eg, didn’t come from anywhere but the Western tradition.
WC, I’ll give you an explanation. I pay my $5 a month for Ricochet membership so that I have a place to discuss my thoughts about politics, among other things. And I do. In this awful political year, my thoughts are that I am not going to vote for either of these horrendous, unqualified candidates. And I say so. {/sarc} My perspectives are so obviously brilliant that I don’t know how they could fail to influence others, {/end sarc} but somehow they never seem to change anyone’s mind. And yet, I keep commenting. Go figure. It’s almost like I enjoy speaking my mind, whether it persuades anyone else or not. Do you accept that as an explanation?
I should also say that, reading your comment quoted above, I find it very difficult to interpret it as anything other than “if you don’t agree with me, at least have the good grace to shut up!” If that is in fact the way you see things, I should note that Breitbart.com is an excellent “safe space” for Trump supporters to enjoy the internet without encountering any pesky dissenters.
Wow. I should be busy more often, @midge: I couldn’t have explicated this any better than you did! :D
No, at ground level the ignorance is leading to the hostility.
Well, the good news is you don’t have to because they aren’t.
Until he wins. Then he’s an insider.
If you want limited government, want Christian values, want the continuance of Western Values then you have to fight for those things. Winnowing everything down to a must-win game means that we have a game between two players who have a personal, professional, and political history of hostility to the values you cherish. So then the game is lost already. Who cares?
I don’t think this is a one shot deal because presidential elections are symptoms and not diseases. In this case it has revealed to us that the ignorance and hostility to the values we cherish is the majority viewpoint. That’s what we need to turn around. Being for something that is against us less that something else is against us doesn’t work if the struggle continues perpetually. That’s simply wiggling your way into the quicksand more slowly.
The only cure is to restrict voters’ rights, but I’ve told you that many times before. No one will listen. Oh yeah and term limits.
And cow bell.
Nope. And go Gault.
This! This is a point I’ve been trying to make with my friends just across the river.
In Minnesota, it matters not one stinking twit who you vote for. Hilary wins and they have so little opposition in the rest of the state that they have Mark Dayton as governor and Al Franken as a senator. There are conservatives in Minnesota but they are awfully hard to find, they apparently don’t take their own chances to govern or influence very seriously. It’s honestly pretty hard to find one who doesn’t want to talk about their wonderful parks and schools. So STOP leaking that twaddle over the border into MY STATE!
Here in Wisconsin, we have been duking it out, bare knuckled, with our neighbors, for several years. This state is up for grabs in every election so we are always battle ready and sometimes win. Whoever wins the top of the ticket, the very best thing we can do is send restraint to Washington in the form of Sen Ron Johnson, Paul Ryan, even a RINO like Sean Duffy. Trash-talking the GOP nominee does not help that first-aid survival effort.
This point is precisely why I’m voting for Trump, and encouraging every to do so. Government isn’t the one person in the executive hot seat. And in this day and age, the bureaucracy is a huge weight on the left-hand scale. The only way to move government to the right is to move every possible office to the right. Individual politicians’ ideals matter in the primaries. The teams’ ideals matter in the general.