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Gay Marriage: An Awkward Moment
A few months ago I attended a T’ai Chi Chih Conference and met a lovely woman. We had a lot in common besides our practice. At lunch, we sat together with a woman friend who had come with her to the conference. I thought they might both be gay — no big deal. Then “Gayle” introduced me to her wife, and explained that they’d been married two months before and were so excited. Awkward. The only thing I could do was smile and say “Congratulations.” (For the record, I tried wearing the same-sex marriage idea for several months, but all the pulling on the hem and shortening of the sleeves wouldn’t work; I can’t support same sex marriage.)
Generally, I’m not reluctant to speak up when I have a serious disagreement with someone, but face to face with two people who felt safe enough to share their relationship with me caught me off guard.
Have you been in this spot? Was it no big deal? How did you respond? If you haven’t been there, what do you think you’ll do when it happens?
Published in Culture, General
Maybe this is one of those many, many situations where quoting Star Trek is the best move. Like “Live Long and Prosper,” or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaz1ojEbr_k
I have nothing (polite) to add. My anonymous (ha!) online persona likely makes me snarkier than I would be in the real life situation.
But I can imagine a noticeable shadow passing over my expression as I contemplate that these are the people destroying my kids’ society — indeed, their civilization — from the inside.
So, yeah, some shady phrasing like, “Have a nice life” comes to mind.
You could try the Jewish (in both Hebrew and Yiddish) phrase of congratulations, “Mazel tov.” Literally, it translates as “good luck.” I suspect you believe that this couple will need a great deal of luck, so you can say this in all sincerity.
How did SSM get to this level of acceptance in the first place? Did the TV networks worry about our feelings when they showed teenagers in gay relationships in shows marketed to my teenage children? Did they seek to be polite when they portrayed the homosexual couple as the only functional family in the city in American Beauty? Did they seek to secretly condemn us while using sneaky words like “nice” when they threw Modern Family at our families?
No. They did all these things while they shamed anyone who disagreed with them. They sued people. They sued nuns. They ran families out of business rather than walk across the street to a different establishment. They got a judge to change a law rather than allowing a law enacted by the popular will of the people to stand.
In situations like you describe I would probably default to showing a minimum level of courtesy most of the time, but I would feel entirely justified in giving them every courtesy their movement has given to my belief system.
I adopt the Adam Carolla method, I simply say “Well there you go…” and hastily saunter away.
It’s always been a part of life and culture, but now it is so much more so. You were gracious and response was appropriate. I was at Home Depot and the young man waiting on me in the garden dept. had the biggest diamond engagement ring on I’d ever seen and he was gesturing a lot so it was blinding me – funny! I have to admit that was the first I’d seen on a guy.
I think it is more important than ever to love and respect people where they are in life – a negative response would not have changed their nuptials. I don’t want to look at someone and think about their personal decisions – I don’t have to agree. I want to see the person as they are – that’s all.
You have to be true to yourself as well. If I’m directly asked my opinion, I’ll give it. I worked for a gay woman who I adored – she had a partner, and she never asked me if I approved of gay relationships or marriage – it never came up. She did ask me if I was very religious – I said why do you ask? She said because I’ve never heard you swear!! I thought that was funny – I said yes I am a spiritual person – and I “try” to watch my mouth. She respected me for that. As her assistant, I was there to help her succeed – that’s all.
This is true – popular culture is spewing a lot of junk – to make it mainstream and acceptable – what I don’t get is why the hostility toward people with differing views to the point of what you describe – isn’t being hostile and in your face the very behavior they have been trying to fight against?
“I’m happy that you’re happy.”
That’s not something I would say because it wouldn’t be received well, but that’s essentially the point most of us traditionalists would hope to convey. Though we believe the couple is happy because of a lie and we will not support that lie, we would like our neighbors to be happy and hope to not be separated over this one important disagreement.
Is the lie consequential enough to demand a rebuttal or is it just “a little white lie”? If the setting makes a fruitful debate unlikely, is an immediate objection necessary? If you are silent or politely sympathetic (to this powerful issue we are tempted to treat as a minor eccentricity, as if he had gotten excited about ant farms), does your response contribute to the normalization of that lie?
The last consideration stands out in my mind. This situation is similar to the one in which Republican voters hide their beliefs while Democrats parade theirs. The silence and polite smiles make it easy for both sides of the debate to believe that most people approve of the pseudo-marital union, thus peer pressure — which affects us all — favors the new arrangement.
Little lies can have a powerful impact when added up.
And when your associate finds out you disapprove of gay unions, what will she think of your initial response? Will she appreciate your pretense?
If I opened my mouth every time I disagreed with someone, all of my friends would know that I think they gave their children stupid names and they paid too much for their homes.
Sometimes it’s just better keep your mouth shut, maintain friendships, and move on.
Well played, sir.
Likewise with inapplicable analogies in online conversations, sometimes.
My apologies that a bit of humor missed its mark, Jojo.
Looking back on the OP, what precisely would you recommend Susan should have said to the “lovely” acquaintance she met at a T’ai Chi conference that would have done anything other than alienate the couple and reinforce potential preconceived notions about conservatives?
Your humor didn’t miss its mark; it was funny. Mine apparently did.
I made an attempt in #45. I think it’s fair to say two women can’t marry each other “in my culture.” I hope a lovely acquaintance would grant me the right to have a culture different from hers. If she didn’t, she had no mind worth reaching anyway.
Most likely I would have said, “Congratulations” awkwardly just like Susan if the woman really did seem lovely and sincere (that is, not introducing her “wife” in a way calculated to force me to approve.) Aaron at #68 has explained better than I what’s wrong with that reaction, though.
Larry – she does not agree with same sex marriage, but wished them well – it sounds like you view her through the same lens that caused the reluctant baker to lose his business and was saddled with huge fines….you also judged her well beyond her one viewpoint – maybe look in the mirror…
My initial response didn’t call for my stating my views on SSM. If she asked me my views on it, or if I felt I needed to speak to my views, I would do it with kindness and honesty. If she asked why I didn’t explain it earlier, I would say that only good wishes were called for, not an expression of my beliefs.
As a gay man who is married to my life partner of 30 years let me say this:
I don’t expect anyone to approve or accept my relationship and I am not so fragile that your inability to do so would have an impact. Were I the person in question, however, I would find it more civilized to drop the subject rather than to hear your opinion. Your views would be manifest in either case but keeping quiet has the distinct advantage of being polite.
.
A good friend of both my wife and me — in fact, she and Mrs. Dad Dog have been friends since high school, and she was involved in “setting us up” — decided a few years ago that she was gay. She later began a relationship with another woman, and they married a couple of years after that. They are still married.
The facts that she (1) came out as gay, then (2) entered into a same-sex marriage, has not changed our relationship with her, nor has it prevented our being friendly with her new “wife.” In fact, as a practical matter, the only thing we did “differently” was politely declining to attend their “marriage” ceremony (which did not come as a surprise to her).
She knows that Mrs. Dad Dog and I are both conservative Christians, and have been since high school. She might have feared rejection on both occasions (the “coming out,” and the marriage). It didn’t happen.
When she “came out,” we made a point to take her to breakfast, and tell her two things: (1) our position regarding both homosexuality and gay marriage had not changed, and (2) our position regarding our love and affection for her had not changed.
So, today, many years later, we are still close. She knows exactly where we stand, and how it’s not going to change. We agree to disagree. And, we love each other.
“Joseph O’Neill, MD, MPH Were I the person in question, however, I would find it more civilized to drop the subject rather than to hear your opinion.”
I do agree that my right to comment on your relationship is directly proportional to my level of intimacy with you.
See, this is the benefit of the standard obnoxious dude response of, “whoot-tshh!”
It’s appropriate in all situations.
Well said, Joseph. Thoughtful and sincere.
My problem with the fairly recent open acceptance of homosexuality is that I don’t think I can tell who is homosexual in most situations. My gaydar was made back in the 50’s. So I am glad when people are open about their orientation. If I had to date again I don’t know what I would do. Is there an acceptable way to ask a woman if she prefers men or women as a partner?
Only about 2.5% of the population is homosexual. If you are thinking of asking a lady on a date, there are many factors with a much higher probability of being a stumbling block than her sexual orientation. Believe me, I’ve been turned down for dates by the majority of women I have asked out and not once was it because she was a lesbian.
“You must be so proud!”
This also works when an over-zealous parent has just told you that 5-year old Johnny took first place in the Glockenspiel contest at his music magnet school, or when your co-worker explains for the umpteenth time what his latest marathon training splits were. You haven’t really committed yourself, but you can say it with enthusiasm and a big smile.
(It is also a passive-aggressive way of saying “I don’t care.”)
in the south we use the “well bless your heart” with just a smidge of condescension.
85 comments and not in the Most Popular box: I predict I’ll find this on the Main Feed if I check there.
Well done, Susan the Buju.
I have worried about what will happen when I am in a situation that requires me to make reference to a same sex marriage. If I can politely refrain from calling the “marriage” a marriage, I will. I certainly won’t go out of my way to point out my disagreement on this matter, anymore than I would in any other matter.
Just use the word “matelotage.” It has hundreds of years of history.
To be clear, the newlyweds to whom I had been introduced weren’t friends. They weren’t even acquaintances before that moment. They were friends of acquaintances, and fairly tenuous acquaintances at that. I had a suspicion that I was being baited. If so, the attempt was wasted. I did say “congratulations” rather than “tell someone who cares.”
If I’m not invited to their next soirée, I’ll soldier on somehow.
I’m coming late to the thread, but I agree with BDB, people aren’t policy…or politics for that matter.
Having been in the same situation, I ask the same personally oriented questions or make the same statements I would of anyone else. “I’m so happy for the two of you” “how long have you been married?” Did you enjoy planning the wedding?”
Given the touchiness of our society, I try to get to know people well before I let them know I don’t support those policies at a political level. Then, the decision for them becomes more complicated because it’s harder to demonize someone they like.
Harder, but not impossible : )