Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
Gay Marriage: An Awkward Moment
A few months ago I attended a T’ai Chi Chih Conference and met a lovely woman. We had a lot in common besides our practice. At lunch, we sat together with a woman friend who had come with her to the conference. I thought they might both be gay — no big deal. Then “Gayle” introduced me to her wife, and explained that they’d been married two months before and were so excited. Awkward. The only thing I could do was smile and say “Congratulations.” (For the record, I tried wearing the same-sex marriage idea for several months, but all the pulling on the hem and shortening of the sleeves wouldn’t work; I can’t support same sex marriage.)
Generally, I’m not reluctant to speak up when I have a serious disagreement with someone, but face to face with two people who felt safe enough to share their relationship with me caught me off guard.
Have you been in this spot? Was it no big deal? How did you respond? If you haven’t been there, what do you think you’ll do when it happens?
Published in Culture, General
Oh, no, Mr. Bill!
I think I probably flunked the rapturous congratulations test, given the way all the other people so informed fawned over the happy couple.
Or rather, temporarily happy couple. I was informed a few days ago that they “had relieved one another of marital duties.”
And they said that it would never last…
Well, it is awkward but how well do you know this woman? Is she a friend or potential friend? If she’s just an aquaintence then brush it off smile and say congrats. But if this woman is to be a true friend of yours then she needs to know how you actually feel because building friendships is like dating and it’s never good to start out dating someone if you lie about something very important to the other person. Now, obviously you like her as an individual and are happy that she has happiness and fulfillment in her life but are just against the concept of gay marriage. I know how you feel but it remains difficult to have a civil conversations with people on this subject. Many of our supporter friends can’t seem to understand that we can love and respect you and even your relationship but not support that it is called a marriage.
My congratulations were hardly rapturous. I’m sure they sensed my reticence…
I completely agree with your comments. I don’t know if we’ll ever see each other, but if we were to become friends, I would feel compelled to tell her my beliefs. If the friendship didn’t survive that, so be it.
I think I would say “That’s nice,” and move on in the conversation.
I find it a very useful phrase, especially given the etymology of “nice.”
Seawriter
I kind of like that–less effusive (and maybe more sincere).
I do some work in Portland, Oregon and have worked with a number of couples who co own businesses. Some are gay. I do not believe we should sanction gay marriage but should recognize a contract of some sorts between consenting adults.
Given all that , I try and keep in mind that being alone is hard and less fun than sharing your life. I can understand and sympathize with the individuals involved. I wish them luck and move on to other matters.
I know a couple of guys who got garried a couple of years ago. They invited me to the wedding, but I had a good excuse–our niece’s wedding. I like them both and just avoid the issue. It’s not really their fault. It’s these crazy times we live in. So I’m friendly and I avoid talking about the subject. This silliness must be fought, but to the extent that I can (since I don’t run a wedding business) I avoid the subject in their presence and in the presence of most people for that matter, and contribute to the cause in other ways, with writing and money to NOM.
I probably have, though I can’t at the moment specifically recall any. You did the right thing. It wasn’t the time and place to bring up an issue out of the blue. To do so would just be preachy. If they asked your opinion, then you might kindly speak up. If not asked, then it’s just a social situation with people you hardly know.
I would also have congratulated them. People are not principles. I can be happy for the joyous events in another persons life as long as I’m not required to approve.
I warned a cousin (like a niece) off of getting a tattoo, and told her why, and in pretty blunt terms. She gave me the you’re not the boss of me speech, and got a tattoo. I told her the tattoo was very well done.
Ha! That’s brilliant. I did not know the etymology. :)
It sounds very thoughtful–do what is called for in the moment. I have a terrific woman in my meditation group who is married to another woman. Their relationship has come up in conversation, but she hasn’t asked for my input about it. I hope she doesn’t.
Susan,
I think we need to move this discussion up a notch. You are describing a form of social extortion. You are being coerced by social etiquette to accept or even compliment people who engage in a relationship which you do not approve of.
Although at first this appears as a rather minor problem it suggests the possibility that when it comes down to a law suit over what amounts to someone or some organization exercising their freedom of religion then the extortion will be used as a trump card to win.
What if you told them directly that you do not approve of SSM and would prefer not to discuss it. Let’s be frank, whatever the outcome you would be risking retaliation from them of some kind. We can try to softball this one way or another but the bald threat is there like a rhinoceros in your living room.
Regards,
Jim
Susan, my reaction to being asked for my “input” on someone else’s relationship, gay or straight, would be to make no effort to hide my confusion and inquire “just why the heck are you asking me?”
I can’t imagine my opinion being worth the time and effort that would be required to drag it out of me.
Sore subject for me, actually. My niece is homosexual, and she has brought three different people to our family gatherings (all of whom were tattooed and/or pierced, which also makes me cringe). I pray that she does not decide to “marry” any time soon; homosexual “marriage” is legal in Washington, and it would make me very uncomfortable to have to decline to celebrate with her.
I also have a coworker who is “married” to his same-sex partner. He’s great to work with, but I think I’d try to avoid getting together outside of work. I have made the decision for myself that it’s not worth it for me to try and get more comfortable with the whole idea. It’s still wrong, and I own my feelings on this issue. I’m probably old enough to use that as a reason for not changing my mind on the issue.
The “scare quotes” are for a reason, and in print I always use them, since Marriage should be reserved for one man and one woman.
I’m sure there are heterosexual marriages that people will look askance at, or even describe as a sham. Picture the stereotypical rich old man who is married to hot young woman who is substantially younger than his own children. It may be obvious to you that she married the old goat for his money and he married her so he could give the world the impression that he’s still a virile man. A lot of people are going to call that a sham marriage, but they’re still polite to the couple in public, right?
Jeez, thanks, Merina! ;-)
Smile, congratulate them and move on. There is no reason to have bad manners over the subject. In the end their soul is their own and its redemption Is their responsibility.
I myself have never been garried, but it sounds nice.
That’s kind of my take on it, too. I’ve known gay people who are making a family together, raising kids, etc. I don’t support SSM but there are a whole lot of things I disapprove of, and that doesn’t mean I don’t wish the best for them as they go about it. I don’t approve of conservatives watching television, much less the debates, for example. But they do it anyway, so I wish them the best even though I’m afraid they are destroying their lives and our country with this behavior.
Politesse and individual people and relationships are more important than standing on principle at every opportunity.
I have a guy on my Facebook friends list who is extremely anti-firearm. Every time there is a firearm in the news, he posts the story with, “Another responsible gun owner.” It doesn’t matter if there are fewer firearm accidents and incidents than car crashes per capita every year. I generally ignore these posts. They just are not worth it.
Good manners often involve some insincerity – but that’s part of being civilised people : – )
Gay grooms get garried in a gazebo…
Ah, Zafar, if only I could figure out a way to make a buck out of it…
Hey, I hate to brag, but in Greenwich Village’s Washington Square Park, the bronze statue of Giuseppe Garibaldi draws his sword gallantly whenever a virgin walked past.
It was my job, 1969-1973, to keep that sword in its scabbord.
that is a gayzebo. Spelling , please
To tell the truth, TKC 1101, at first I mistook your handle for this film reference:
This shows up alot on ricochet. Homosexuals often take any disagreement as a personal attack.
Personally, I am cool with homosexuality and Civil Unions but I want marriage to be an institution that shames a heterosexual man into raising children. In history, marriage isn’t really involved with homosexuals. Marriage is about kids and property. But if I expressed that to any homosexuals I know they would probably hear it as a justification of any ill-treatment they experienced because of their sexuality.
This whole deal makes me nostalgic for the old days of religious separatism in the Midwest. Lutherans and Catholics who lived together for decades would not be caught dead in the same cemetery. They had profound disagreements their entire lives but did not quarrel much about it.
Nowadays it seems you aren’t allowed to be an odd minority.