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The Battle for Bakhmut
The battle for Bakhmut has lasted for about nine months. It is the bloodiest and most intense fight in Europe since WWII. Advances and retreats are measured in two to six kilometers increments.
Thousands of Russian and Ukrainian forces have been killed in this battle as Russian forces try to encircle the city, and Ukrainian forces try to prevent the taking of the city.
Once again, the following video shows the grunts in the field. I’m not interested in the policy wonk views in the West, nor the Kremlin’s perpetual aggrievement of losing the old Soviet Empire. This fight has become like WWI trench warfare with newer and more deadly weapons.
My opinion is that this war is not going to end anytime soon. Regardless of the past history between Russia and Ukraine, it should be obvious that Ukrainians are fighting for hearth and home.
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Published in Military
Neither does Re-posting random tweets of questionable provenance. And yet…
How does one engage with spam?
As far as I can see, all the posted tweets are related to the subject, the war in Ukraine. So calling them “random” is incorrect.
As for their provenance, I would judge them to be just a little less questionable than the average posting!
I have been engaging in actual discussion throughout this loooong thread, with just about everybody who has participated in it. Including, I would point out, with the very person who complained to you (or on whose behalf someone complained to you).
I quite agree that posting the same image over and over does not constitute an argument. I didn’t mean it to be. I meant it to be a pointed criticism of a particular type of comment that this person had been posting with notable frequency. The type of comment that fits BOTH of the following 2 criteria:
1.
The comment has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
2.
The comment has absolutely nothing to do with any tangential sub-topics anyone else had been engaging in.
Cluttering up a discussion thread with these types of comments, in my opinion, denotes a certain degree of disrespect/disregard for the other participants. My “SPAM” images, the meaning of which could not be misunderstood, are directed solely at these particular types of comments on the part of said person. I had hoped that it would take no more than a couple, maybe three such “SPAM” images for this person to get the message and cease and desist. Apparently not.
I suppose that, as a moderator, the ball is in your court now. Do you believe that spamming a discussion thread should be strongly discouraged, for the benefit of the overall quality of discourse on Ricochet? I sure hope so.
The topic of the thread is “The Battle for Bakhmut”, not the war in Ukraine in general. Furthermore, the type of comment that I eventually began responding to with “SPAM” images also did not have any connection to anything that any other participants had been discussing at any point in time. They were simply plopped into the thread.
Here’s a listing thereof:
#29: “German arms manufacturer Rheinmetall …”
#30: “Alexander Dugin lambasts those who downplay Ukraine’s counter offensive …”
#35: “The United States should supply long-range missiles to Ukraine, as Britain has done. …”
#76: “Germany to supply Ukraine with its largest aid package yet, worth nearly 3 billion. …”
#77: “Slovakia joins Poland in agreeing to give fighter jets to Ukraine. …”
#78: “Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni says the European Union should hurry up and let Ukraine into the European Union. …”
#80: “Japan confirms pledge to deliver 1 trillion Yen in aid to Ukraine. …”
#86: “Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko checked into a hospital near Minsk, …”
#101: “#Zelensky thanked #Germany for the biggest military aid package for Ukraine since the start of the full-scale Russian invasion. …”
#102: “Zelensky has landed in Berlin. …”
#154: “France promises more tanks, armoured vehicles for Ukraine. …”
#155: “Norway announces it will train 3,200 Ukrainian soldiers this year …”
#156: “Zelenskyy UK Visit: British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak will today …”
#169: “Sunak meets Zelensky, says UK will be ‘key part’ of ‘fighter jet coalition.’ …”
#170: “If I was a Russian nuclear strategist today, I would be very worried. …”
#172: “Russian Telegram channels are pushing the theory that the entry of Soviet era tanks is due to shell shortages …”
#173: “Both Lithuania and Japan know what it’s like to live next to an aggressive nuclear power …”
#174: “Ukraine’s First Lady Olena Zelenskа met with South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol …”
NOTE: This is when I, finally, began the “SPAM” image campaign:
#218: “Germany’s Hensoldt to supply Ukraine with six more TRML-4D radars …”
#219: “The international community’s support for Ukraine helps to deter a Chinese invasion of Taiwan …”
#229: “The demographic impact on Russia of the war in Ukraine in starkly revealed by …”
#231: “The United Kingdom, the Netherlands, France and Germany have announced that they are ready to train Ukrainian pilots on F-16 fighter jets. …”
#234: ““The most you can get is a slight injury. If you get something more, that’s it. You will die,” …”
#237: “Democrats, Republicans join up to urge Biden to send F-16s to Ukraine …”
#252: ““Putin’s aspirations look beyond Ukraine. …”
#284: “European Gas Price Under 30 Euros for First Time in Nearly Two Years …”
#293: “Biden Administration Signals to Allies It Won’t Block Their Export of F-16 Fighter Jets to Ukraine …”
Not surprisingly, I agree completely.
Austria’s Defense Minister insists that her country’s participation in Ukraine’s mine clearance activities violates Austria’s constitutional policy of neutrality. According to the Austrian Minister of Defense, it is currently impossible to distinguish between humanitarian and military mine clearance.
The total number of Russian losses in the Bakhmut region is up to 70 thousand killed and wounded, Ukraine’s Defense Minister, Oleksii Reznikov said.
“According to our estimates, the Russians lose about a battalion per day in Bakhmut,” Reznikov added.
The author of this post can ask the offender to leave or narrow his debate. He hasn’t done that. If he were to do so, and the offender persisted despite his requests, then that becomes a matter for moderators.
This is an example of …
This, on the other hand, is NOT an example of … SPAM.
Well done!
PS:
Providing links continues to be a problem for you. Why is that?
The author of this post hasn’t participated in this thread for going on 5 days now (i.e. 200 comments ago).
Besides, the author of a post is not the only affected party. Spamming affects the flow of conversation among all of the other participants in a thread. It clutters it up, in inconsiderate ways. Since I’m sure that Ricochet is not meant simply to maximize the number of posts, but maximize the number (as well as the quality, of course) of interactions among as many participants in a thread as possible, I should think that their concerns would deserve consideration as well, no?
@gpentelie — While the vast majority of comments relate to various aspects of the war in Ukraine, only a minority are about the battle for Bakhmut.
So you’re wrong, coming and going.
best done with onions, pickles and BBQ sauce on a bun. Think McRib.
I refer you back to comment #303, in which I specified the SECOND criterion whereby (in combination with the FIRST criterion I specified) a comment qualifies as SPAM:
“2.
The comment has absolutely nothing to do with any tangential sub-topics anyone else had been engaging in.”
Understand?
I don’t particularly find a bunch of quote tweets and links without analysis very edifying. I also don’t approve of compounding the the problem by pointing it out. It has made it easy to wade through the comments by ignoring much of the thread. I think there has been some good engagement in this thread and interesting worthwhile discussions. I also think there is something of a food fight/ shouting match that has been particularly useful and that frankly I just scroll over as fast as I can. Perhaps I am in the minority. I also tend to just roll my eyes at such things so it doesn’t usually move me to comment.
That’s my general approach as well. Which is why I ignored the first TWO DOZEN or so “spammings”. At some point, however, I thought I should start confronting it directly (going to the “principal’s office” to complain is generally the last resort for me, unless it’s something reeeeeeeeeally egregious).
I don’t think I have ever flagged a post or asked for a moderator’s intervention in all my time at ricochet. Not that I don’t respect the need for enforcement of the CoC I just typically feel we are all adults here, but since it is a controversy that I do have an opinion I felt I should weigh in.
Agreed.
And a whole bottle of shampanksoye to wash it all down and get the taste out.
The spam has to be fried. Skipping that is a rookie mistake.
Seems to be an exaggeration. No doubt the Russians are suffering significant casualties. They seem to be still in the attack. Losing a battalion a day would have a significant affect on troop morale.
Especially with respect to something like “Rocky & Bullwinkle” they should just call it champagne-ski.
There are plenty of members who are sick of listening to other members. In the judgement of the moderators who have rendered an opinion, it is rude to reply to someone you disagree with by repeatedly posting an image meant to insult someone. Since you seem to interpret Painter Jean’s comment as merely a suggestion, I will endeavor to make this clear, @gpentelie. Stop doing this.
Or, rather, their commenting strategy.
I admit that I tend to just scroll by, at this point, and I suspect that I’m not alone, and that it’s something the poster has done to themselves by pursuing
thisthis strategy, but still.It doesn’t seem to be personal qua person.
(Compare these to text responses to, for eg, @garyrobbins when he posts on his favourite subject – which frequently are personal, but (so far) have lacked images.)
O PTB, of course we obey, but you seem like capricious gods :-(
Would someone who posted so many tangentially relevant pieces of information from, for eg, Russian sources get the same leeway?
Would responding with ‘spam’ in writing, with no image posted, be engaging in debate (they’re questioning the relevance and content of a post, after all) or not?
Is posting so many tweets etc. without any actually added comment (or value add – so the fair use thing comes in) engaging in debate at all?
The Babylon Bee is on top of the Ukraine news:
I’m sure that’s true of some. Not applicable to this case, however. I have no problem interacting with people with whom I disagree on this or that topic, including the one in question. ‘Matter of fact, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it turned out that most of my interactions on Ricochet have been of that nature. That’s part of the attraction of participating in a discussion/debate forum, I think.
The “SPAM” image is a pointed criticism of the spamming nature of the comment, not of the character and such of the commenter.
Fair enough. No more “SPAM” pics.
Let me conclude by asking you the same question I addressed to “Painter Jean”:
Do you believe that spamming a discussion thread should be strongly discouraged, for the benefit of the overall quality of discourse on Ricochet?
Oh, I am so tempted to post a particular picture, but I have been advised against it by not just one, but TWO Ricochet Moderators.
That post wasn’t spam, that was
shadecommentary at its finest!Heh.
Yes, Zafar. We aren’t here to support people who agree with us and stifle those who don’t. I don’t have a clue where most of moderators stand on Ukraine vs. Russia. And we have suspended Heavy Water before when he was insulting people on the discussion over Ukraine.
I haven’t gone through 300+ comments, but I’ve looked at the last few pages. It’s not just tweets and quotes from other people that Heavy Water is putting out.