How Republicans Will Elect Biden 2.0 in 2024

 

“Biden 2.0” is a stand-in for some Democrat figurehead of the Party of Death and Destruction (D). It could be Biden (D). It could be Harris (D). Maybe gruesome Newsome (D). Doesn’t matter, I predict we’ll have one of them, and it will be because “a majority [or, at least, a plurality] of Republicans want Trump, but the Republican Party says we can’t have him.” 

This is a similar dynamic to the Republican’s Taft-Roosevelt split that produced probably the most destructive presidency of the 20th century — Woodrow Wilson (D) — followed closely by FDR (D) and LBJ (D) (notice a pattern?).

Dan Gelernter spelled it out masterfully earlier in the month in Trump Was a Mistake, and now speaks for me in The Coming Split.

But, despite the obvious differences, we’re heading for a 1912-repeat, in which the Republican Party ignores its own voters. The Republican machine has no intention of letting us choose Trump again: He is not a uniparty team player. They’d rather lose an election to the Democrats, their brothers in crime, than win with Trump.

I especially appreciate his points here [emphasis mine]:

I’m sure I’ll be accused of being a shill for the Democrats here, and as far as I’m concerned that’s as credible as being accused of shilling for Russia these days. I’m not suggesting you have to do what I do, either. But I have no intention of supporting a Republican Party that manifestly contravenes the desires of its voters. The RNC can pretend Trump isn’t loved by the base anymore, that he doesn’t have packed rallies everywhere he goes. But I’m not buying it: Talk to Republican voters anywhere outside the Beltway, and it is obvious that he is admired and even loved by those who consider themselves “ordinary” Americans.

Mitch McConnell put cement boots on the Republican party and pushed it into the Potomac with this line: “providing assistance for Ukrainians to defeat the Russians is the number one priority for the United States right now, according to most Republicans.”

In response, I’ll quote a different Mc: “Nuts!” — General McAuliffe

Trump may be our General Patton and the Third Army of his voters the only force that can save America from Biden 2.0.

MAGA!

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  1. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys just saw elections stole in 2020 and again in 2022 and you think it is not going to happen in 2024 or when it does it will somehow be your / our / GOP / Trump fault. Amazing. Trump was the last GOP POTUS for a long long time. He was not supposed to win and that is why the Left got so mad when he slipped by. I suspect soon the senate and Congress will fall also to the same rigging methods and we can keep blaming “candidate quality” when the Left runs actual stroke victims that can not talk to victories. But play a rigged games by rigged rules get rigged prizes.

    If this were true, no Republican would win a close election— anywhere— ever.

    The trick is to let a few Republicans win so the game doesn’t look rigged. But only controlled opposition.

    • #31
  2. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    MDHahn (View Comment):
    No one saw a nearly 20 point win for DeSantis, but that’s what happened. Because he’s good at his job.

    Because he didn’t ignore cultural issues. He embraced them and fought for conservative culture.

    Which is exactly what the GOP won’t do.

     

    • #32
  3. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Does the primary system that made DJT the nominee reflect the will of the voters?

    It did, but it was a mistake by the lights of the GOPe. Ted Cruz was the second least approved candidate by the GOPe and once the race came down to the two of them, the GOPe assumed, mistakenly as it turns out, that Hillary was a foregone conclusion.

    The party doesn’t like who Republican voters pick in the primaries. See complaints about “candidate quality” this year. Mitch pulled support from disapproved candidates across the country, making their defeat correspond nicely to the GOPe’s predictions and desires. The Republican establishment would rather lose with dignity than win with a fight.

    That is because it is not losing or winning to them.  It is all about money.  Who cares if you are a loser if you make more money than anybody else.  They have no underlying integrity or ethics or morals just making money for them and theirs.  

    • #33
  4. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    MDHahn (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    MDHahn (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    MDHahn (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    …..

     

    Odd, because what I heard was a man who is not very articulate saying that if we don’t want a repeat of 2020 in 2024, we need to address the fraud that occurred. Of course, NTs tend to hear that as whining.

    As far as the GOPe choosing candidates, does anyone with a brain think that the voters don’t listen at all to The Turtle, Rove, Hogan, Christie, Kasich, Sununu, et. al when those fools tell us to “move on” from Trump. More important, if the voters don’t “move on” and Trump is the nominee, how many of the aforementioned will vote for the Democrat? I’d guess all of them.

    This is nonsense. Trump would rather blame everyone else than admit he lost. By all means keep harping on 2020 and see how that works out in a general election.l.

    By all means keep ignoring the fraud, tell us about moving on, and get another Democrat elected because you can’t see the truth.

    Fools listen to them and the media give them a lot of attention. I can’t believe you don’t see that. Actually, . . . I can.

    What fraud?! I am getting sick and tired of hearing about this when it is so obviously a pathetic excuse for why your preferred candidate lost.

    Look at the vote totals in these states. Kari Lake lost while the Treasurer candidate won and the GOP sent 2 more representatives to Congress. It might just be that people didn’t like Lake. Otherwise, the dems are so freaking stupid that they can rig an election, but still lose seats in Congress. Same in Wisconsin. Michels lost while Johnson won again and we added to our majorities in the legislature and flipped a Congressional seat.

    I’m not saying that every election is perfect, but these grand conspiracy theories about rigged elections are dumb. They are disproved by the results. If they can be rigged you wouldn’t get results like AZ and WI. You’d get more uniform results. You can’t honestly tell me that dems didn’t want to beat Johnson just as badly as any other incumbent. Right or wrong, voters didn’t like a lot of these candidates and they lost.

    But we also saw great victories in 2022 where voters rewarded competency. No one saw a nearly 20 point win for DeSantis, but that’s what happened. Because he’s good at his job. Ditto Kemp and Abbott.

    Keep spreading it. I didn’t mention Lake at all. 

    Interesting that some NTs here at ricochet have praised Florida for clearing up its voting/fraud issues. Of course, that had nothing to do with DeSantis margin of victory, did it. 

    Your babbling is making me sick. I suggest we disengage as I have nothing more to say. 

    • #34
  5. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys just saw elections stole in 2020 and again in 2022 and you think it is not going to happen in 2024 or when it does it will somehow be your / our / GOP / Trump fault. Amazing. Trump was the last GOP POTUS for a long long time. He was not supposed to win and that is why the Left got so mad when he slipped by. I suspect soon the senate and Congress will fall also to the same rigging methods and we can keep blaming “candidate quality” when the Left runs actual stroke victims that can not talk to victories. But play a rigged games by rigged rules get rigged prizes.

    If this were true, no Republican would win a close election— anywhere— ever.

    The trick is to let a few Republicans win so the game doesn’t look rigged. But only controlled opposition.

    They have to have Republicans win to a degree that the can justify the threat, the bogeyman.  There has to be enough GOP so the bread and circus show goes on and the money gets pumped into Democrat causes.  It is that the GOP is the Washington Generals of the political arena.   To be honest the Harlem Globetrotters vs the Washington Generals pretty much sum up American politics at this time.  

    • #35
  6. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    “Biden 2.0” is a stand-in for some Democrat figurehead of the Party of Death and Destruction (D). It could be Biden (D). It could be Harris (D). Maybe gruesome Newsome (D). Doesn’t matter, I predict we’ll have one of them, and it will be because “a majority [or, at least, a plurality] of Republicans want Trump, but the Republican Party says we can’t have him.” 

    I think that assuming that a plurality of primary voters will prefer Trump over another candidate is a mistake, WC. I’m not a NT – I voted for Trump in 2020 – but I would be much happier with a different candidate. I’m hearing that a lot from other Republican friends and family who also voted for him but aren’t happy with his behavior since the 2020 election. Ultimately, it’s the folks who show up at the precinct caucuses that will determine who the candidate is, as it has been so in the past. 

    • #36
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    I think that assuming that a plurality of primary voters will prefer Trump over another candidate is a mistake, WC. I’m not a NT – I voted for Trump in 2020 – but I would be much happier with a different candidate.

    Hmmm.

    Don’t be fooled: Trump is ‘strong as ever’ say top pollsters.

     

    • #37
  8. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    I’m hearing that a lot from other Republican friends and family who also voted for him but aren’t happy with his behavior since the 2020 election.

    I’m not happy with a lot of his behavior but am less happy with the rest of the party, with a couple of exceptions, of course. 

    • #38
  9. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    “Biden 2.0” is a stand-in for some Democrat figurehead of the Party of Death and Destruction (D). It could be Biden (D). It could be Harris (D). Maybe gruesome Newsome (D). Doesn’t matter, I predict we’ll have one of them, and it will be because “a majority [or, at least, a plurality] of Republicans want Trump, but the Republican Party says we can’t have him.”

    I think that assuming that a plurality of primary voters will prefer Trump over another candidate is a mistake, WC. I’m not a NT – I voted for Trump in 2020 – but I would be much happier with a different candidate. I’m hearing that a lot from other Republican friends and family who also voted for him but aren’t happy with his behavior since the 2020 election. Ultimately, it’s the folks who show up at the precinct caucuses that will determine who the candidate is, as it has been so in the past.

    You’ve just described the split I (and Gelernter) are predicting. All those people showing up at Trump rallies (and, btw, I’m not one of them) are not voting for the establishment candidate this time, whether or not Trump runs third party. I will join them in withholding my vote. 

    The uniparty must be destroyed (see McConnell, cement boots, Potomac). It’s them or us. 

    • #39
  10. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    I think that assuming that a plurality of primary voters will prefer Trump over another candidate is a mistake, WC. I’m not a NT – I voted for Trump in 2020 – but I would be much happier with a different candidate.

    Hmmm.

    Don’t be fooled: Trump is ‘strong as ever’ say top pollsters.

     

    Ah yes, pollsters… the ones who consistently get it wrong. I’m not basing what I stated on polls, I’m basing it on the intentions of people I personally know who voted for Trump in the past but who would prefer someone else. Some people I’ve talked to are tired of the drama, some do not want an elderly man again in the White House, some don’t his focus on the 2020 election…..no doubt some are “all of the above” (and that includes me). Ultimately it’s who shows up at the precinct caucuses and primaries who will determine who the candidate is. All I’m saying is, do not presume that Trump will be the preferred candidate.

    • #40
  11. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys just saw elections stole in 2020 and again in 2022 and you think it is not going to happen in 2024 or when it does it will somehow be your / our / GOP / Trump fault. Amazing. Trump was the last GOP POTUS for a long long time. He was not supposed to win and that is why the Left got so mad when he slipped by. I suspect soon the senate and Congress will fall also to the same rigging methods and we can keep blaming “candidate quality” when the Left runs actual stroke victims that can not talk to victories. But play a rigged games by rigged rules get rigged prizes.

    If this were true, no Republican would win a close election— anywhere— ever.

    The trick is to let a few Republicans win so the game doesn’t look rigged. But only controlled opposition.

    A majority in the House is more than that.

    • #41
  12. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys just saw elections stole in 2020 and again in 2022 and you think it is not going to happen in 2024 or when it does it will somehow be your / our / GOP / Trump fault. Amazing. Trump was the last GOP POTUS for a long long time. He was not supposed to win and that is why the Left got so mad when he slipped by. I suspect soon the senate and Congress will fall also to the same rigging methods and we can keep blaming “candidate quality” when the Left runs actual stroke victims that can not talk to victories. But play a rigged games by rigged rules get rigged prizes.

    If this were true, no Republican would win a close election— anywhere— ever.

    The trick is to let a few Republicans win so the game doesn’t look rigged. But only controlled opposition.

    A majority in the House is more than that.

    Is it? Promises, promises.

    • #42
  13. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    I think that assuming that a plurality of primary voters will prefer Trump over another candidate is a mistake, WC. I’m not a NT – I voted for Trump in 2020 – but I would be much happier with a different candidate.

    Hmmm.

    Don’t be fooled: Trump is ‘strong as ever’ say top pollsters.

     

    Ah yes, pollsters… the ones who consistently get it wrong. I’m not basing what I stated on polls, I’m basing it on the intentions of people I personally know who voted for Trump in the past but who would prefer someone else.

    Paging Pauline Kael.

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    All I’m saying is, do not presume that Trump will be the preferred candidate.

    Nor am I. It’s just that the people telling you that nobody wants Trump anymore might not be telling you the truth. They are most likely crafting a narrative that they are going to place into your brain pan.

    • #43
  14. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys just saw elections stole in 2020 and again in 2022 and you think it is not going to happen in 2024 or when it does it will somehow be your / our / GOP / Trump fault. Amazing. Trump was the last GOP POTUS for a long long time. He was not supposed to win and that is why the Left got so mad when he slipped by. I suspect soon the senate and Congress will fall also to the same rigging methods and we can keep blaming “candidate quality” when the Left runs actual stroke victims that can not talk to victories. But play a rigged games by rigged rules get rigged prizes.

    If this were true, no Republican would win a close election— anywhere— ever.

    The trick is to let a few Republicans win so the game doesn’t look rigged. But only controlled opposition.

    A majority in the House is more than that.

    But what kind of majority do we have?

    • #44
  15. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    “Biden 2.0” is a stand-in for some Democrat figurehead of the Party of Death and Destruction (D). It could be Biden (D). It could be Harris (D). Maybe gruesome Newsome (D). Doesn’t matter, I predict we’ll have one of them, and it will be because “a majority [or, at least, a plurality] of Republicans want Trump, but the Republican Party says we can’t have him.”

    I think that assuming that a plurality of primary voters will prefer Trump over another candidate is a mistake, WC. I’m not a NT – I voted for Trump in 2020 – but I would be much happier with a different candidate. I’m hearing that a lot from other Republican friends and family who also voted for him but aren’t happy with his behavior since the 2020 election. Ultimately, it’s the folks who show up at the precinct caucuses that will determine who the candidate is, as it has been so in the past.

    You’ve just described the split I (and Gelernter) are predicting. All those people showing up at Trump rallies (and, btw, I’m not one of them) are not voting for the establishment candidate this time, whether or not Trump runs third party. I will join them in withholding my vote.

    The uniparty must be destroyed (see McConnell, cement boots, Potomac). It’s them or us.

    Again, isn’t Gelernter describing a situation where where the “people’s will” is denied?  How is the winner of the primary’s not a reflection of the people’s will ?

    • #45
  16. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys just saw elections stole in 2020 and again in 2022 and you think it is not going to happen in 2024 or when it does it will somehow be your / our / GOP / Trump fault. Amazing. Trump was the last GOP POTUS for a long long time. He was not supposed to win and that is why the Left got so mad when he slipped by. I suspect soon the senate and Congress will fall also to the same rigging methods and we can keep blaming “candidate quality” when the Left runs actual stroke victims that can not talk to victories. But play a rigged games by rigged rules get rigged prizes.

    If this were true, no Republican would win a close election— anywhere— ever.

    The trick is to let a few Republicans win so the game doesn’t look rigged. But only controlled opposition.

    A majority in the House is more than that.

    Is it? Promises, promises.

    Yes, it is.  And if this plot to rig every significant election was in place, it never would have happened. 

    • #46
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Again, isn’t Gelernter describing a situation where where the “people’s will” is denied? How is the winner of the primary’s not a reflection of the people’s will ?

    I assume part of the problem here is that the will of the people picks “Candidate Bob” and then McConnell comes out and says “Candidate Bob is of poor quality! We shall direct Republican Party funding away from him!”

    That is, the people choose a candidate and expect the Party apparatchiks to get behind the people’s choice.

    But they don’t. In this way, the will of the people is denied, and the will of the Party becomes dominant.

    • #47
  18. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys just saw elections stole in 2020 and again in 2022 and you think it is not going to happen in 2024 or when it does it will somehow be your / our / GOP / Trump fault. Amazing. Trump was the last GOP POTUS for a long long time. He was not supposed to win and that is why the Left got so mad when he slipped by. I suspect soon the senate and Congress will fall also to the same rigging methods and we can keep blaming “candidate quality” when the Left runs actual stroke victims that can not talk to victories. But play a rigged games by rigged rules get rigged prizes.

    If this were true, no Republican would win a close election— anywhere— ever.

    The trick is to let a few Republicans win so the game doesn’t look rigged. But only controlled opposition.

    A majority in the House is more than that.

    But what kind of majority do we have?

    We have a majority that is better than not having a majority.

    • #48
  19. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys just saw elections stole in 2020 and again in 2022 and you think it is not going to happen in 2024 or when it does it will somehow be your / our / GOP / Trump fault. Amazing. Trump was the last GOP POTUS for a long long time. He was not supposed to win and that is why the Left got so mad when he slipped by. I suspect soon the senate and Congress will fall also to the same rigging methods and we can keep blaming “candidate quality” when the Left runs actual stroke victims that can not talk to victories. But play a rigged games by rigged rules get rigged prizes.

    If this were true, no Republican would win a close election— anywhere— ever.

    The trick is to let a few Republicans win so the game doesn’t look rigged. But only controlled opposition.

    A majority in the House is more than that.

    But what kind of majority do we have?

    We have a majority that is better than not having a majority.

    True. McConnell couldn’t stop this one. But he did prevent a majority in the Senate.

    • #49
  20. MDHahn Coolidge
    MDHahn
    @MDHahn

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    MDHahn (View Comment):
    No one saw a nearly 20 point win for DeSantis, but that’s what happened. Because he’s good at his job.

    Because he didn’t ignore cultural issues. He embraced them and fought for conservative culture.

    Which is exactly what the GOP won’t do.

     

    Right. Because so many in the GOP hate DeSantis….

    • #50
  21. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Again, isn’t Gelernter describing a situation where where the “people’s will” is denied? How is the winner of the primary’s not a reflection of the people’s will ?

    I assume part of the problem here is that the will of the people picks “Candidate Bob” and then McConnell comes out and says “Candidate Bob is of poor quality! We shall direct Republican Party funding away from him!”

    That is, the people choose a candidate and expect the Party apparatchiks to get behind the people’s choice.

    But they don’t. In this way, the will of the people is denied, and the will of the Party becomes dominant.

    That is difficult to do in a Presidential primary, which is what I was referring to.  I understand the point otherwise.

    • #51
  22. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    Again, isn’t Gelernter describing a situation where where the “people’s will” is denied?  How is the winner of the primary’s not a reflection of the people’s will ?

    It’s everything that’s happened since Trump won. The Republican majorities in Congress were unwilling to overturn Obamacare (McCain). They did not get behind Trump’s agenda and helped Democrats to obstruct it (Ryan, McConnell — oh, and McCain again (helping Hillary with the Russia collusion hoax). Nearly everything Trump accomplished he had to do by executive order (since overturned by Biden on day one) because he didn’t have the Republican establishment behind him. 

    Republicans (as some NTers have spoken the quiet part out loud here) are party-first. Not America first. The party serves their interests, not ours. They’ll repeat the narrative that Trump is unpopular with the base, that he can’t win, that he’s just a complainer about a non-issue like the lack of election integrity. . .

    The primary may be reflective of the will of the people. Or the will of the people may be distorted by the liars and grifters who make up the uniparty. Even if Trump only garners 30% of Republican primary voters, it’s 30% the party can ill afford to lose against the united (and corrupt) Party of Death and Destruction++.

    The party has expected us to fall in line behind their preferred candidates. A sizeable portion of us are done with that and insist on the reverse. They can get behind us (put America and Americans (not Ukrainians) first) or go to hell.

    • #52
  23. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    Again, isn’t Gelernter describing a situation where where the “people’s will” is denied? How is the winner of the primary’s not a reflection of the people’s will ?

    It’s everything that’s happened since Trump won. The Republican majorities in Congress were unwilling to overturn Obamacare (McCain). They did not get behind Trump’s agenda and helped Democrats to obstruct it (Ryan, McConnell — oh, and McCain again (helping Hillary with the Russia collusion hoax). Nearly everything Trump accomplished he had to do by executive order (since overturned by Biden on day one) because he didn’t have the Republican establishment behind him.

    Republicans (as some NTers have spoken the quiet part out loud here) are party-first. Not America first. The party serves their interests, not ours. They’ll repeat the narrative that Trump is unpopular with the base, that he can’t win, that he’s just a complainer about a non-issue like the lack of election integrity. . .

    The primary may be reflective of the will of the people. Or the will of the people may be distorted by the liars and grifters who make up the uniparty. Even if Trump only garners 30% of Republican primary voters, it’s 30% the party can ill afford to lose against the united (and corrupt) Party of Death and Destruction++.

    The party has expected us to fall in line behind their preferred candidates. A sizeable portion of us are done with that and insist on the reverse. They can get behind us (put America and Americans (not Ukrainians) first) or go to hell.

    I do not like Trump but if the party hoists another McCain or Romney on us I am not voting.  They would not support the bases guy well I will not support the GOPe guy.  A pox on all their houses.  I will start my share of tearing down and burning until the time of blood comes.  

    • #53
  24. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    Again, isn’t Gelernter describing a situation where where the “people’s will” is denied? How is the winner of the primary’s not a reflection of the people’s will ?

    It’s everything that’s happened since Trump won. The Republican majorities in Congress were unwilling to overturn Obamacare (McCain). They did not get behind Trump’s agenda and helped Democrats to obstruct it (Ryan, McConnell — oh, and McCain again (helping Hillary with the Russia collusion hoax). Nearly everything Trump accomplished he had to do by executive order (since overturned by Biden on day one) because he didn’t have the Republican establishment behind him.

    Republicans (as some NTers have spoken the quiet part out loud here) are party-first. Not America first. The party serves their interests, not ours. They’ll repeat the narrative that Trump is unpopular with the base, that he can’t win, that he’s just a complainer about a non-issue like the lack of election integrity. . .

    The primary may be reflective of the will of the people. Or the will of the people may be distorted by the liars and grifters who make up the uniparty. Even if Trump only garners 30% of Republican primary voters, it’s 30% the party can ill afford to lose against the united (and corrupt) Party of Death and Destruction++.

    The party has expected us to fall in line behind their preferred candidates. A sizeable portion of us are done with that and insist on the reverse. They can get behind us (put America and Americans (not Ukrainians) first) or go to hell.

    Well, I won’t argue with that, but it seems that I’m taking a more limited view of Biden 2.0 in ‘24, per the O/ P.   In essence, I don’t get the specific point that Gelernter is making.  He seems to be suggesting that a decent number of Trump supporters will sit out the general election if someone other thanTrump is the nominee, and that the GOP will lose as a result.  That may be true, but it’s not because the desires of the primary voters were contravened.  It’s because the primary voters selected someone who wasn’t Trump.

    • #54
  25. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    MDHahn (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    MDHahn (View Comment):
    No one saw a nearly 20 point win for DeSantis, but that’s what happened. Because he’s good at his job.

    Because he didn’t ignore cultural issues. He embraced them and fought for conservative culture.

    Which is exactly what the GOP won’t do.

     

    Right. Because so many in the GOP hate DeSantis….

    That’s not what I was suggesting. Rather they run away from right-wing cultural issues and chase after the holy “moderates”. DeSantis wades right in and people love him for it.

    • #55
  26. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    MDHahn (View Comment):

    What? You do realize that there will be a primary, right? And actual Republicans will vote in these primaries. Either Trump will win, or he will lose to another Republican. The GOP has been utterly powerless against Trump and has shown no real ability to stop him in primaries.

    We only get a 1912 repeat if Trump loses, he once again refuses to concede that he lost, and either runs as a third-party or blasts the nominee and tells people not to vote. Just like he did in Georgia for the runoff in 2020.

    If there is a 1912 redo, it will be Trump’s fault, just like it was TR’s then. And both will have been motivated out of pure ego and spite.

    No, it will be the fault of the NT’s. They still haven’t figured out why we got Trump. They keep telling us to vote a certain way or the Democrats will win. They have no fear of voting for a 3rd party which helps the Democrats win. They have been playing a game of chicken with us for years and we keeping blinking. Time to no longer blink.

    • #56
  27. Pagodan Member
    Pagodan
    @MatthewBaylot

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I have trouble believing in the intelligence of any candidate who runs against Trump given the unjust way he and the J6 protestors have been prosecuted and persecuted. I think the entire Republican Party should stand against the Democrats in their use of the Justice Department for their own political gain.

    I do not want to see them get away with what they have done. I think the most important issue facing us as a nation is the adherence to basic standards of justice. What the Democrats have done to an innocent man over the past six years is abhorrent in every way.

    The Constitution is very much about defining the relationship between the individual and the government. That is the cornerstone upon which it rests. I got that message plainly in the instructions I once got when I was part of a local jury. The judge explained that we the jury members were the only people standing between justice and injustice. Well, in the battle between the Democrats and Never Trumpers against Donald Trump, we the people are the jury.

    I will vote for Trump and against them. The government should never treat anyone the way they have treated him.

    Trump people are weird yo. 

    • #57
  28. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    MDHahn (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    This post is about the Republican party acting against the base — a plurality of which voted for Trump in the early primaries in the 2016 election and managed to get him through as the Republican nominee. The question is, do you believe the Republican party represents you in good faith, even when it apparently works against your interests (see Omnibus from hell and neutering of the already weak Republican majority in the House)?

    I will never vote for a Democrat, unlike some NTers. But, I will not vote for another Romney, McCain, Bush, Cheney pick from the establishment. As Gelernter says, I’m fed up. BTW, how does Mitch McConnell regard Ron DeSantis? And would DeSantis cave to the uniparty if he managed to get elected (he won’t; see aforementioned Trump loyalists)?

    If a plurality manages to push Trump through in the primaries, great. I’ll vote for him. If it becomes apparent that the party apparatus is choosing the candidate? No. The uniparty must be destroyed. It’s us or them.

    You keep saying that the party is going against the will of the voters, but you don’t recognize the contradiction in your comments.

    If Trump only manages a plurality, then by definition a majority of the GOP primary voters preferred someone other than Trump. He doesn’t have majority support in that scenario. So why is Trump the one who must be protected at all costs?

    As I’ve said numerous times now, the GOP has a tremendous bench of proven, competent governors: DeSantis, Kemp, Abbott, Ducey, Noem, etc. Any of them would be great candidates. We’re stuck with another Trump primary because of his vanity. He only whines about 2020 and doesn’t have anything new to offer. A potential 2 terms from one of the people above is far better for the country than soothing one man’s ego.

    Is it? It looks like we are up against Democrats and Democrats Lite. I’m done with this game. It is time to settle who runs the Repub Party and what it will stand for.

    • #58
  29. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    I think that assuming that a plurality of primary voters will prefer Trump over another candidate is a mistake, WC. I’m not a NT – I voted for Trump in 2020 – but I would be much happier with a different candidate.

    Hmmm.

    Don’t be fooled: Trump is ‘strong as ever’ say top pollsters.

     

    Ah yes, pollsters… the ones who consistently get it wrong. I’m not basing what I stated on polls, I’m basing it on the intentions of people I personally know who voted for Trump in the past but who would prefer someone else.

    Paging Pauline Kael.

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    All I’m saying is, do not presume that Trump will be the preferred candidate.

    Nor am I. It’s just that the people telling you that nobody wants Trump anymore might not be telling you the truth. They are most likely crafting a narrative that they are going to place into your brain pan.

    I would agree – anyone claiming that nobody wants Trump isn’t correct.  There are plenty of “Always Trump” voters out there. How many remain to be seen. Again, all I’m sayimg is that I would not presume he is going to be the choice of a plurality of voters in the preceinct caucuses and primaries. Fer Pete’s sake, it’s too dang early for any assertions!

    • #59
  30. DrewInWisconsin, Oik 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Red Herring (View Comment):
    It is time to settle who runs the Repub Party and what it will stand for. 

    What does the GOP stand for? Anyone know?

    • #60
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