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Where Do I Go to Say “I’m Sorry” to Afghans?
The blame game is easy right now, and everybody’s playing it, especially the suits in charge. But put yourself in Afghan shoes, on the feet of scared people, saying goodbyes hunkered down in homes with crazed fanatics running around with AK-47s, bloodied knives, and severed heads. Unimaginable.
While it pains me to say so, I agree with Jerry on this (I snipped out the few details I’m not 100% on board with).
Jerry:
“What evidence is there that the “normal” Afghan is different from the Taliban? I know little about the country. The data that I’ve consulted indicates that: (1) the country is about 99.7% Muslim, and (2) among the Muslims, 99% want to live under Sharia. So my guess is that an Afghan who some people here characterize as our “friends” or “allies” are just about as bad as the Taliban.”
I ‘m sorry I find that statement appalling.
First, the Islam of Afghanistan and those areas close to the old Silk Road historically as I understand it were of an Islam far different from the Islam of the Wahhabi Sect that descended on Afghanistan in the 80’s with the importation of Saudi influence in the war against the Russians. The areas along the old Silk Road over a thousand years ago were indoctrinated into an amalgamation of a more peaceful and tolerant Sufi Islam by wandering Sufi Scribes that preached among the diverse peoples of the Silk Road that was more to the liking of Steppe peoples of that region. For those of you who don’t know, the Sufi are now seen as heretics among the Wahhabi Fundamentalists.
The Taliban or “student” or ‘seeker” in Pashto are a Militant, hardline Fundamentalist sect of Islam who are very strict in their interpretation of Islam. They are seeking to “teach” those heretical Afghans the true hardline, unforgiving Islam.
Afghanistan up until the era of modern communications of the Russian war had little exposure to hardline Islam because it was far away from Mecca and the Hardliners. With modern communications, Fundamental Islam was introduced to Afghanistan, which it had not known before.
Also for those of you who don’t know, even among Muslims, it is the troubled down and out, much like our politicized homeless and Antifa nutters who are drawn to Hardline Fundamentalism. So the Taliban are really different from your “normal” Afghan.
I thought it had been determined that the hardliners were more like our Trust Fund Kids. Pretty well off, generally. (Which is certainly true of our antifa nutters.)
I’ve listened pretty closely to everything that Zuhdi Jasser has said about Islam and it’s issues for this era. He tries really hard, but I think the way the texts are written, it’s pretty hard to make it work in the West.
It’s too tribal and they have too little logistical connection between the areas for anything else but Islam to be its cohesion for a government. It may not have mattered before Whabbism, but it matters now.
Rufus:
“He tries really hard, but I think the way the texts are written, it’s pretty hard to make it work in the West. “
One of the real tragedies of the Biden Administration is the undoing of the miracle Trump pulled off in the Middle East.
Over the last 15 years or so, American production of oil and gas has more than doubled due to fracking. As a result, America is no longer dependent on Middle Eastern Oil, so a significant portion of the market no longer needs OPEC.
That fact and the fact that the population of Saudi Arabia, now around 35 million, has become too great to live off oil revenues alone , forced Prince Salmon to consider some radical changes in the way SA was run. He concluded that SA needs to become more industrialized to feed it’s population and therefore needed to be more integrated into the West. That conclusion led him to start pressuring the Saudi Clerics to reform the Hadiths, ( not the Koran) so that normal, everyday Saudis could live alongside Westerners without the rancor that we have seen in the last few decades. So Rufus, the texts- they may be a changing.
This same conclusion led him to make peace with the Israeli’s, but that whole miracle is now on the brink of unraveling due to the insane pro Iran policies of Uncle Joe Biden and his traitorous minions.
Fair enough, but it doesn’t change my facts. My best boss that I ever had and probably the best human being that actually helped me out was a Muslim. The only time I saw him kind of lose his composure was when he told me that people in his own religion wanted to kill him.
I find most theology pretty tedious and I only like it on a certain vector, but I have tried to listen to experts explain this to me and all I can say is I hope it works out, but it looks like a problem to me.
Afghanistan now looks exactly like it did shortly before we went there.
Yup. It was always a sham. They can thank us for the twenty year interruption in barbaric savagery to experience corruption with richer rewards, and the occasional dose of civilized savagery.
A war with no goals or exit strategy somehow didn’t pan out. And now the exit’s not looking too hot.
It may be truly impossible to “civilize” (Westernize?) Afghanistan, and I’m certainly able to believe that if it proved out. But 20 years was way too short a time to really find out. And before this “withdrawal” the annual cost was rather small.
Good point. But it could have turned out differently, without the artificial 20-year deadline.
This is the nominal leader of the main organized Never Trump group that is, I think really run by Kristol and Omidyar. This is a perfect example of how those guys have been twisting themselves into knots, since the Biden election when they communicate. I forget her name, but the communication analyst on Fox News, showed that nobody liked this part of the speech. Tom Nichols is a train wreck in this sense.
No, 20 years is more than enough time to see if societal changes are taking effect or not. Of the many problems one of the largest was the persistent corruption of local officials, meaning that most of the funds we “invested” in Afghanistan ended up in their pockets.
The “ghost soldier” problem is a very common form of corruption and one that the leadership of the Afghan military was unwilling to change.
I think the bigger problem is that 20 years is barely enough for someone who was born at the start, to be a useful member of the Afghan military without having been indoctrinated in nothing but muslim extremism for their entire life. Let alone reach a position where they might be able to do something to improve more in the military itself. And even with the corruption, it wasn’t costing all that much to maintain the status quo. It would be like saying a “troubled” corporation must be shut down just as the guy who’s been rising through the ranks might be able to take over as CEO and clean things up. Maybe it doesn’t actually work, but 20 years was just too short to know.
Given what the west has been doing these days, I can see why they don’t want to westernize.
Not much chance that Afghanistan would be brought directly to current US operating model. More likely, where we were 50-200 years ago. Sounds pretty good to me!
Mark Levin is saying that the Taliban doesn’t even poll well in Afghanistan. 20%.
Just reporting. I have no big opinion on this.
So they’re like many young South Koreans?
“We want America to leave!”
“Then North Korea comes down and takes over.”
“We don’t want THAT!”
Great. The buck stops with him. And it’s a disaster. So what are you going to do about it, MAYO!? Gonna keep pretending he’s Presidential material?
NeverTrumpers are the worst. Worse than Democrats.