The Kraken Katchers

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  1. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    The more we delegitimize the Biden-Harris administration, the less damage they can do; and the easier it is for Collins, Murkowski, and Manchin to oppose their initiatives.

    BTW, the Brits have been peacefully passing power from party to party for hundreds of years.

    The King was still the head guy when the parties where being transferred. When Jefferson became the head guy over Adams, that was a very big new transfer of power from one party to another.

    To your earlier point, should we delegitimize the Biden-Harris administration if they did win the Electoral college? I assume their was fraud done on their behalf but if it wasn’t enough fraud to change the ultimate result, then doesn’t that mean Biden is legitimately elected?

    The most likely result is that fraud will be strongly indicated but not legally provable.

    On the other hand, in the unlikely result that we can be reasonably sure fraud was not a factor, we can argue that the behavior of Twitter, Facebook, Google, and the news media made it impossible for the American people to make an informed choice. So Biden-Harris would be illegitimate for another reason.

    • #331
  2. Archibald Campbell Member
    Archibald Campbell
    @ArchieCampbell

    Taras (View Comment):
    I’ve heard that Trump is the first incumbent President to lose his reelection in spite of increasing his vote total. I haven’t checked the numbers myself but, if so, that would be yet another suspicious statistical anomaly.

    Except that this whole election year has itself been an anomaly.

    • #332
  3. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Hillary established the new standard and the mainstream media gave it their imprimatur, by giving her endless opportunities to air her imaginary wrongs.

    Or are you one of those who believe the Republicans should practice unilateral disarmament?

    It seems like this is a path to an ever degrading political climate. If it’s OK — encouraged, even — for every president to do disreputable things as long as someone else did it first, and then add their own unique misdeeds to become future precedents, it’s nothing but a downward spiral.

    When the Republicans took back the Senate, do you believe they should have brought back the filibuster for judicial nominations? Oh boy, that would have made the Democrats very, very happy.   Just think of those hundreds of conservative judges they could have blocked!

    Classic example: Hitler didn’t use poison gas on the battlefield in World War II because he knew that the Allies would respond in kind. If he could have been sure high-minded ethical scruples would not permit that, he would have used poison gas with abandon.

    Similarly, what restraints some Democrats from court packing is that they fear Republicans would do the same in their turn. If they could be sure Republicans would not do it, then there would be no downside to court packing.

    • #333
  4. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Taras (View Comment):
    Similarly, Al Gore conceded the 2000 election to George W. Bush – and then unconceded it a few hours later, fighting it through the courts for the rest of the year.

    The rest of the year was all of 34 days. Election Day was on 11/8/2000, the Supreme Court handed down its decision on 12/12/2000, the day after oral arguments were presented to the court. 

    I am surprised to read that the Republican Party should be taking its cues on how to behave after an election from Hillary Clinton. When they go low, we go lower? OK…

    • #334
  5. JuliaBlaschke Lincoln
    JuliaBlaschke
    @JuliaBlaschke

    Taras (View Comment):

    Dr. Strangelove (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    If only we could have talked Trump into resigning in 2019. Pence might have had a better shot of beating Biden, given Pence’s ability to think before he speaks (unlike Trump). Oh, well. The road less travelled.

    If only, back in 2016, the GOP primary voters didn’t bypass the most impressive GOP field in my memory in favor of a [CoC violation] gameshow host then in November 2020 President Cruz would be basking in his post reelection triumph.

    [Feel free to substitute just about anyone from the 2016 GOP field for Cruz, it will not change my point.]

    That hypothesis was entirely plausible — in 2016.

    In retrospect, it’s all too likely that a polite Republican nominee in 2016 would have fared the same as the polite Republican nominees in 2012 and 2008. According to the media, Republican candidates are supposed to go through the motions of trying to win the election — but not try too hard.

    What was needed was a Republican candidate who had the media presence and savvy to reach around the increasingly hostile media to get his message directly to the voters.

    I disagree. Hillary was so toxic that even Trump could beat her. I also believe that a not Trump candidate would have beaten Biden. Trump was a huge mistake.

    • #335
  6. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Taras (View Comment):
    On the other hand, in the unlikely result that we can be reasonably sure fraud was not a factor, we can argue that the behavior of Twitter, Facebook, Google, and the news media made it impossible for the American people to make an informed choice. So Biden-Harris would be illegitimate for another reason.

    I agree that the media is garbage. But it doesn’t seem kosher to cancel an election because we have a garbage media. I do hope Trump in any capacity continues his full bore attack on the media.

    • #336
  7. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):
    On the other hand, in the unlikely result that we can be reasonably sure fraud was not a factor, we can argue that the behavior of Twitter, Facebook, Google, and the news media made it impossible for the American people to make an informed choice. So Biden-Harris would be illegitimate for another reason.

    I agree that the media is garbage. But it doesn’t seem kosher to cancel an election because we have a garbage media. I do hope Trump in any capacity continues his full bore attack on the media.

    I’m not sure what you mean by “cancel an election”.

    Rather, the Republicans need to keep election irregularities alive in the public mind so that Biden and Harris cannot effectively claim any kind of mandate.  

    If possible, prove that they were actually repudiated by the American people; or, failing that, that they would have been repudiated, had not the media put a heavy thumb (and hand and arm and buttock) on the scales.

    • #337
  8. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Taras (View Comment):

    Rather, the Republicans need to keep election irregularities alive in the public mind so that Biden and Harris cannot effectively claim any kind of mandate.

    If possible, prove that they were actually repudiated by the American people; or, failing that, that they would have been repudiated, had not the media put a heavy thumb (and hand and arm and buttock) on the scales.

    Unless the Trump legal team has a mountain of evidence that they haven’t presented yet, Biden will have been elected by the electoral college. That is a mandate of sorts.

    Of course the rights should mention that the media are corrupt democratic hacks and that election irregularities always go for one side. I’m fine with fighting tooth and nail but that doesn’t change the mandate of winning an election.

     

    • #338
  9. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Taras (View Comment):
    Rather, the Republicans need to keep election irregularities alive in the public mind so that Biden and Harris cannot effectively claim any kind of mandate.

    Hey here’s a radical thought: how about the people making claims about irregularities prove them first? Because so far, they have not done that. Making claims without proof is just a fancy way of lying. 

    • #339
  10. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):
    Similarly, Al Gore conceded the 2000 election to George W. Bush – and then unconceded it a few hours later, fighting it through the courts for the rest of the year.

    The rest of the year was all of 34 days. Election Day was on 11/8/2000, the Supreme Court handed down its decision on 12/12/2000, the day after oral arguments were presented to the court.

    I am surprised to read that the Republican Party should be taking its cues on how to behave after an election from Hillary Clinton. When they go low, we go lower? OK…

    This is a kind of poetical substitute for reasoning, like shutting down U.S. code breakers, saying “Gentlemen don’t read each other’s mail.”

    I believe the only way to stop bad behavior by the Democrats is to make it cost them. You prefer moral suasion, God help us all.

    Remember, Hillary‘s behavior has been greeted with acclaim, not obloquy, in nearly all quarters of the media.  The Republicans can either accept being treated as second-class citizens, or demand equal treatment.

    On the other subject:  You can’t give credit to Al Gore for a decision which he and all his legal phalanxes vociferously opposed.  

    How long he would have continued challenging the election results we cannot know.

    Perhaps until Florida Democrats found a cache of ballots in a landfill or a hollow tree and the Florida Supreme Court declared that “all ballots must be counted”!

    • #340
  11. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    What Trump *should* be doing right now is barnstorming the country holding rallies where he talks about how well he’s set things up for the incoming Biden Administration – Vaccine online to be distributed before the inauguration, peace treaties in the Middle East, cheap gasoline and natural gas, an economy that’s primed to take off once the lockdown ends,  etc, etc, etc.

    Go out a winner, not a whiny loser.

     

    • #341
  12. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):
    Rather, the Republicans need to keep election irregularities alive in the public mind so that Biden and Harris cannot effectively claim any kind of mandate.

    Hey here’s a radical thought: how about the people making claims about irregularities prove them first? Because so far, they have not done that. Making claims without proof is just a fancy way of lying.

    Like what they’ve been doing for four years, while your faction said NOTHING.

    • #342
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Dr. Strangelove (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    If only we could have talked Trump into resigning in 2019. Pence might have had a better shot of beating Biden, given Pence’s ability to think before he speaks (unlike Trump). Oh, well. The road less travelled.

    If only, back in 2016, the GOP primary voters didn’t bypass the most impressive GOP field in my memory in favor of a [CoC violation] gameshow host then in November 2020 President Cruz would be basking in his post reelection triumph.

    [Feel free to substitute just about anyone from the 2016 GOP field for Cruz, it will not change my point.]

    There is a non-zero chance (I’d actually put it above 50% myself) that Cruz would have lost to Hillary.  He wasn’t then able to mobilize much enthusiasm, although he could probably do a better job of it now.

    • #343
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Biden Pure Demagogue (View Comment):

    Just saw a video from October 2019 of Hillary calling Trump an “illegitimate President”. So Rothman should delete his tweet, and resend it in October 2023 — if Trump is still contesting the 2016 election results then.

    As I mentioned in another thread,

    Hillary did a great disservice to the country and it’s traditions by pretending that she won the election. She also did so by telling Joe not to concede. Before the election of 1800, there was no peaceful transfer of power from one party to another anywhere. The person who lost was either killed or banished or put in the tower of London to rot. Being able to pull off power going from one party to another lets us lift ourselves out of the muck of perpetual war and terror.

    It sounds like the behavior of both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump should be criticized.

    If Donald Trump pretends that the election was stolen from him when it wasn’t, I’ll put him in the same camp.

    Or if Donald Trump claims that the election was stolen while unable to convince even judges he himself nominated, perhaps it is Trump who attempted to steal the election.

    It has to be a bit embarrassing that judges Trump nominated have ruled against him.

    Would you be willing to rule in a way that might very well have BLM/Antifa coming to your home with torches?

    • #344
  15. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    kedavis (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Biden Pure Demagogue (View Comment):

    Just saw a video from October 2019 of Hillary calling Trump an “illegitimate President”. So Rothman should delete his tweet, and resend it in October 2023 — if Trump is still contesting the 2016 election results then.

    As I mentioned in another thread,

    Hillary did a great disservice to the country and it’s traditions by pretending that she won the election. She also did so by telling Joe not to concede. Before the election of 1800, there was no peaceful transfer of power from one party to another anywhere. The person who lost was either killed or banished or put in the tower of London to rot. Being able to pull off power going from one party to another lets us lift ourselves out of the muck of perpetual war and terror.

    It sounds like the behavior of both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump should be criticized.

    If Donald Trump pretends that the election was stolen from him when it wasn’t, I’ll put him in the same camp.

    Or if Donald Trump claims that the election was stolen while unable to convince even judges he himself nominated, perhaps it is Trump who attempted to steal the election.

    It has to be a bit embarrassing that judges Trump nominated have ruled against him.

    Would you be willing to rule in a way that might very well have BLM/Antifa coming to your home with torches?

    Sure.  I thought we wanted to confirm Constitutionalist judges for a reason.  Are you saying that it doesn’t matter whether we nominate a Clarence Thomas or a Elena Kagan?

    • #345
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    What Trump *should* be doing right now is barnstorming the country holding rallies where he talks about how well he’s set things up for the incoming Biden Administration – Vaccine online to be distributed before the inauguration, peace treaties in the Middle East, cheap gasoline and natural gas, an economy that’s primed to take off once the lockdown ends, etc, etc, etc.

    And then when the good things don’t happen, ask why!

    • #346
  17. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Would you be willing to rule in a way that might very well have BLM/Antifa coming to your home with torches?

    Would you be willing to give us proof that any judges ruled against Trump’s legal team because they were afraid of this? Or are you just making stuff up again to support your increasingly silly narrative?

    • #347
  18. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    What Trump *should* be doing right now is barnstorming the country holding rallies where he talks about how well he’s set things up for the incoming Biden Administration – Vaccine online to be distributed before the inauguration, peace treaties in the Middle East, cheap gasoline and natural gas, an economy that’s primed to take off once the lockdown ends, etc, etc, etc.

    And then when the good things don’t happen, ask why!

    Yup.  Take credit for the good stuff, Dems get blamed for the bad stuff.

    Instead, Dems will be able to blame all the bad stuff for the next year on Trump not cooperating. with the transition.

    I like that Trump fights.  I wish he’d won.  But sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation.

    • #348
  19. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Franco (View Comment):
    Like what they’ve been doing for four years, while your faction said NOTHING.

    Wait, I have a faction? Cool! 

    But are you actually suggesting that no one pushed back on the Russia investigation or repeatedly criticized Hillary Clinton for her delusional statements about the election being stolen? Because that is a ridiculous assertion and easy to refute. But first you have to tell me who’s in “my faction.”

    • #349
  20. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Taras (View Comment):
    Perhaps until Florida Democrats found a cache of ballots in a landfill or a hollow tree and the Florida Supreme Court declared that “all ballots must be counted”!

    “I’ll take things that did not happen for $500, Alex.” (RIP to Alex Trebek, by the way). 

    • #350
  21. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    I miss Mark Steyn.

    https://www.steynonline.com/10781/express-checkout

    • #351
  22. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Taras (View Comment):

    I believe the only way to stop bad behavior by the Democrats is to make it cost them. You prefer moral suasion, God help us all.

    Remember, Hillary‘s behavior has been greeted with acclaim, not obloquy, in nearly all quarters of the media. The Republicans can either accept being treated as second-class citizens, or demand equal treatment.

    You seem to believe that the way to stop Democrats is to create bigger lies than they do and hope you can make it stick. I prefer just living in reality and dealing with it. You know, like an adult.

    “Fighting” the results of a free and fair election (and yes, that’s what it was) is driving 80mph down the road to anarchy. You can let me out of that car right now. 

    • #352
  23. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    I believe the only way to stop bad behavior by the Democrats is to make it cost them. You prefer moral suasion, God help us all.

    Remember, Hillary‘s behavior has been greeted with acclaim, not obloquy, in nearly all quarters of the media. The Republicans can either accept being treated as second-class citizens, or demand equal treatment.

    You seem to believe that the way to stop Democrats is to create bigger lies than they do and hope you can make it stick. I prefer just living in reality and dealing with it. You know, like an adult.

    “Fighting” the results of a free and fair election (and yes, that’s what it was) is driving 80mph down the road to anarchy. You can let me out of that car right now.

    I would hope they would slow the car down first.

    • #353
  24. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS
    @user_54742

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    I believe the only way to stop bad behavior by the Democrats is to make it cost them. You prefer moral suasion, God help us all.

    Remember, Hillary‘s behavior has been greeted with acclaim, not obloquy, in nearly all quarters of the media. The Republicans can either accept being treated as second-class citizens, or demand equal treatment.

    You seem to believe that the way to stop Democrats is to create bigger lies than they do and hope you can make it stick. I prefer just living in reality and dealing with it. You know, like an adult.

    “Fighting” the results of a free and fair election (and yes, that’s what it was) is driving 80mph down the road to anarchy. You can let me out of that car right now.

    I would hope they would slow the car down first.

    He’ll be fine ….speed up a bit.

    • #354
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Would you be willing to rule in a way that might very well have BLM/Antifa coming to your home with torches?

    Would you be willing to give us proof that any judges ruled against Trump’s legal team because they were afraid of this? Or are you just making stuff up again to support your increasingly silly narrative?

    We’ve already seen lawyers and law firms dropping out because of doxxing and threats.  Are you claiming that no judge could ever be similarly doxxed/threatened?  And even if it may not have actually happened yet, TO JUDGES, doesn’t mean that someone wouldn’t be aware of the possibility.  Considering what we’ve seen happen to lawyers and law firms, and mayors, etc.

    • #355
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Biden Pure Demagogue (View Comment):

    Just saw a video from October 2019 of Hillary calling Trump an “illegitimate President”. So Rothman should delete his tweet, and resend it in October 2023 — if Trump is still contesting the 2016 election results then.

    As I mentioned in another thread,

    Hillary did a great disservice to the country and it’s traditions by pretending that she won the election. She also did so by telling Joe not to concede. Before the election of 1800, there was no peaceful transfer of power from one party to another anywhere. The person who lost was either killed or banished or put in the tower of London to rot. Being able to pull off power going from one party to another lets us lift ourselves out of the muck of perpetual war and terror.

    It sounds like the behavior of both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump should be criticized.

    If Donald Trump pretends that the election was stolen from him when it wasn’t, I’ll put him in the same camp.

    Or if Donald Trump claims that the election was stolen while unable to convince even judges he himself nominated, perhaps it is Trump who attempted to steal the election.

    It has to be a bit embarrassing that judges Trump nominated have ruled against him.

    Would you be willing to rule in a way that might very well have BLM/Antifa coming to your home with torches?

    Sure. I thought we wanted to confirm Constitutionalist judges for a reason. Are you saying that it doesn’t matter whether we nominate a Clarence Thomas or a Elena Kagan?

    The problem is more that these people get away with it, without consequence.  Largely because Democrat mayors and DAs etc don’t discourage it and may even ENcourage it.

    • #356
  27. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    I believe the only way to stop bad behavior by the Democrats is to make it cost them. You prefer moral suasion, God help us all.

    Remember, Hillary‘s behavior has been greeted with acclaim, not obloquy, in nearly all quarters of the media. The Republicans can either accept being treated as second-class citizens, or demand equal treatment.

    You seem to believe that the way to stop Democrats is to create bigger lies than they do and hope you can make it stick. I prefer just living in reality and dealing with it. You know, like an adult.

    “Fighting” the results of a free and fair election (and yes, that’s what it was) is driving 80mph down the road to anarchy. You can let me out of that car right now.

    You should have gotten out four years ago.

    • #357
  28. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    kedavis (View Comment):
    We’ve already seen lawyers and law firms dropping out because of doxxing and threats. Are you claiming that no judge could ever be similarly doxxed/threatened? And even if it may not have actually happened yet, TO JUDGES, doesn’t mean that someone wouldn’t be aware of the possibility. Considering what we’ve seen happen to lawyers and law firms, and mayors, etc.

    Give me a call when you’ve got something more than “this happened, therefor that must have happened and now my theory is confirmed.” Yikes. 

    It’s too bad The X-Files is no longer in production. You guys would be excellent sources of material for the writers. 

    • #358
  29. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    We’ve already seen lawyers and law firms dropping out because of doxxing and threats. Are you claiming that no judge could ever be similarly doxxed/threatened? And even if it may not have actually happened yet, TO JUDGES, doesn’t mean that someone wouldn’t be aware of the possibility. Considering what we’ve seen happen to lawyers and law firms, and mayors, etc.

    Give me a call when you’ve got something more than “this happened, therefor that must have happened and now my theory is confirmed.” Yikes.

    It’s too bad The X-Files is no longer in production. You guys would be excellent sources of material for the writers.

    Well, let’s see.  We know that people have been attacked and sometimes killed, after saying “All lives matter.”

    But, if nobody you know personally has been attacked or killed by BLM, you think it’s okay to go into a BLM riot and start yelling “All lives matter?”

    Good luck with that.

    • #359
  30. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Well, let’s see. We know that people have been attacked and sometimes killed, after saying “All lives matter.”

    But, if nobody you know personally has been attacked or killed by BLM, you think it’s okay to go into a BLM riot and start yelling “All lives matter?”

    Good luck with that.

    Ah, so we went from “judges” to “people” and from election fraud to some other example that has nothing to do with what we’re discussing. Your arguments fall apart with the pushback of a feather. Getting bored with this, but OK:

    The truth is, you don’t know the reason those lawyers and law firms dropped out. Might be doxxing, although you’d think that if the future of fair and free elections were actually at stake here, they might have toughed it out a bit. Leads me to think that maybe it wasn’t doxxing. Maybe they looked at the evidence and said, “nope, not gonna be a part of this.”

    They also could have reported it to the FBI as doxxing is a Fed– HEY, where IS the FBI in all of this? Tampering with ballots is also a Federal offense. Why haven’t we heard a peep from them? Oh noes! ARE THEY IN ON THIS TOO?

    • #360
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