Fan Service

This week on the mighty GLoP podcast, we once again throw pre-agreed topics to the curb and let the Big Brains (that’s really what they make us call them) take the show where they will. So, we cover the infamous history of Rob’s NYC neighborhood, The Watchmen and The Man in The High Castle, whether or not The Irishman is trash or treasure, and are the Ferengis (characters on Star Trek: Voyager for you non-nerds) members of the Chosen People? A GLoP investigation. Finally, fair warning: we do some Rank Punditry® on impeachment and some of you may be get triggered by what you hear. We apologize in advance to those that don’t want to hear politics, and urge you to use your fast forward button the the last five minutes where we discuss Christmas vs. Hanukkah (or is it Chanukah?) and then do stick around for an outtake or two after the closing song. 

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There are 93 comments.

  1. Metalheaddoc Member
    Metalheaddoc Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Error! The Ferengi were mostly seen on Deep Space 9, although introduced on Next Generation. They only made one appearance on Voyager. (And one on Enterprise for those keeping score at home. )

    • #1
    • December 10, 2019, at 7:10 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  2. Jon1979 Lincoln

    When the Ferengis were introduced on ST:TNG in Season 1, the idea was with the Klingons now part of the Federation, the Ferengis would join the Romulans as the new alternating bad guys in the series. That …. didn’t quite work out as planned, and the more they were brought back, the less they were used as a threat and the more they were as a source of comedy, to the point by DS9 the Ferengi were to the Federation about what the Hakawis were to the soldiers at Fort Courage in “F-Troop” (and TNG eventually would develop a much better alternative danger with The Borg).

    • #2
    • December 10, 2019, at 7:52 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  3. Blue Yeti Admin

    Metalheaddoc (View Comment):

    Error! The Ferengi were mostly seen on Deep Space 9, although introduced on Next Generation. They only made one appearance on Voyager. (And one on Enterprise for those keeping score at home. )

    My deepest apologies for the error, but take comfort in the fact that I will be hearing about this mistake from Goldberg and Lileks until the end of time.

    • #3
    • December 10, 2019, at 10:22 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  4. OccupantCDN Coolidge

    I never really got the Ferengi as being antisemitic. I thought they where meant to be anti-founding fathers. The method to ridicule libertarian economics in general, as ST:NG was peak socialism in star trek.

    On the topic of “Fan Service” I was hoping the topic of real Hollywood fan service would come up, in the form of making movies from books. I would assume that when a studio buys the rights to a book, they’re buying a fan base for their movie. That movie should be about pleasing the book’s readers and providing a reasonable interpretation of the book. So how does something like “Chaos Walking, Catch a Falling Knife” happen? Where the first cut of the movie is so bad, the studio will re-shoot most of the movie and delay its release a year…

    • #4
    • December 10, 2019, at 10:23 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  5. James Lileks Contributor

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    That …. didn’t quite work out as planned,

    Yeah, sniveling little guys with neon whips wasn’t as menacing as they thought. The great thing about the Ferengi – actually a Persian word that meant “foreigners,” the term for Europeans – was this: capitalists are fun, dramatically. Aside from the broad parodic character Wally Shawn played, the Ds9 Ferengi were interesting characters. Quark was a great cynical counterweight, and his relationship with the town’s lawman was one of Trek’s best pairings.

    And RIP Odo.

    • #5
    • December 10, 2019, at 10:24 PM PST
    • 11 likes
  6. kedavis Member

    Part 1: That the Dems ACCUSE Trump of doing what Biden actually DID, does not somehow PROVE that Trump ACTUALLY DID THE EQUIVALENT THING. That is not a required part of “projection.” Indeed it’s rarely if ever actually the case, otherwise it wouldn’t even be projection! The problem is when some people – *cough* Rob Long *cough* – buy into that equivalence as being somehow obvious or something.

    Part 2: The truly stupid people aren’t the ones who vote(d) for Trump. They’re the ones who vote Democrat, over and over, despite the evidence. Trump is the different one. What is it when you do the same thing over and over, expecting different results? That’s right. Insanity.

    • #6
    • December 10, 2019, at 11:19 PM PST
    • 7 likes
  7. kedavis Member

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    That …. didn’t quite work out as planned,

    Yeah, sniveling little guys with neon whips wasn’t as menacing as they thought. The great thing about the Ferengi – actually a Persian word that meant “foreigners,” the term for Europeans – was this: capitalists are fun, dramatically. Aside from the broad parodic character Wally Shawn played, the Ds9 Ferengi were interesting characters. Quark was a great cynical counterweight, and his relationship with the town’s lawman was one of Trek’s best pairings.

    And RIP Odo.

    One of the best scenes, and quite illustrative:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hdiuRMK3UQ

    This is also very illustrative:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D2SHNqkjbY

    • #7
    • December 10, 2019, at 11:21 PM PST
    • 1 like
  8. Henry Castaigne Member

    I ask Jonah to post a video of him having a conversation with a pro-Trump person. 

    • #8
    • December 10, 2019, at 11:57 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  9. Arahant Member

    Pretty good show on the culture (or is it magazine) front.

    Jon, the way you are using to introduce commercials in this was brilliant. It is so you. You only had one semi-segue. Leave those to Lileks. Go with the pure interruption. It really works well and it’s something you pull off much better.

    • #9
    • December 11, 2019, at 1:45 AM PST
    • 1 like
  10. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    That …. didn’t quite work out as planned,

    Yeah, sniveling little guys with neon whips wasn’t as menacing as they thought. The great thing about the Ferengi – actually a Persian word that meant “foreigners,” the term for Europeans – was this: capitalists are fun, dramatically. Aside from the broad parodic character Wally Shawn played, the Ds9 Ferengi were interesting characters. Quark was a great cynical counterweight, and his relationship with the town’s lawman was one of Trek’s best pairings.

    And RIP Odo.

    Aron Eisenberg who played the Ferengi named Nog on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine also died on September 21, 2019.

    • #10
    • December 11, 2019, at 3:18 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  11. Jon1979 Lincoln

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    That …. didn’t quite work out as planned,

    Yeah, sniveling little guys with neon whips wasn’t as menacing as they thought. The great thing about the Ferengi – actually a Persian word that meant “foreigners,” the term for Europeans – was this: capitalists are fun, dramatically. Aside from the broad parodic character Wally Shawn played, the Ds9 Ferengi were interesting characters. Quark was a great cynical counterweight, and his relationship with the town’s lawman was one of Trek’s best pairings.

    And RIP Odo.

    There is a critique to make here about Rodenberry’s general idea of a post-capitalist Federation by the 23rd Century that ties into Picard’s later comment on ST:TNG that money didn’t exist in their time. The Ferengis were as originally conceived supposed to be a cautionary tale about the evils of unfettered capitalists (debuting seven years into the Reagan era), a position that was softened down as things went along, to the point that by DS9 it was pretty clear the Ferengi weren’t the only ones still dealing in the buying and selling of commodities. That was really just a return to the original Star Trek ethos, where in the series’ fifth episode Harry Mudd’s trying to pimp out his chemically-enhanced women to rich dilithium miners, and in Season 2 Cyrano Jones is a galactic trader of oddities, including Tribbles. Both Mudd and Jones’ desire for money were mined for the conflict they created, and as a side benefit, for the humor that provided.

    Rick Berman as post-Roddenberry show-runner of TNG and DS9 had a far better grasp on what worked in telling stories, and capitalist aliens worked better as a source of more comedy-based conflict than as a galactic menace.

    • #11
    • December 11, 2019, at 5:35 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  12. Shawn Buell (Majestyk) Contributor

    Wrong opinions about Heat included for free, I see.

    • #12
    • December 11, 2019, at 8:00 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  13. Max Ledoux Admin

    Ricochet Audio Network:  and are the Ferengis (characters on Star Trek: Voyager for you non-nerds) 

     🤦‍♂️

    • #13
    • December 11, 2019, at 8:14 AM PST
    • Like
  14. Arahant Member

    Shawn Buell (Majestyk) (View Comment):

    Wrong opinions about Heat included for free, I see.

    Wrong opinions about most things included for free, as always.

    • #14
    • December 11, 2019, at 8:17 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  15. Bishop Wash, Blk X-man/Wh pilot Member

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Part 2: The truly stupid people aren’t the ones who vote(d) for Trump. They’re the ones who vote Democrat, over and over, despite the evidence. Trump is the different one.

    As the old saying goes, if it wasn’t for stupid people, the Republicans wouldn’t have leaders and the Democrats wouldn’t have voters.

    • #15
    • December 11, 2019, at 8:20 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  16. Joe D. Lincoln

    Sorry, not up on my Astrology, why is it racist?

    • #16
    • December 11, 2019, at 9:05 AM PST
    • 1 like
  17. Jim Wright Coolidge

    The image for this episode is inspired. Thank you.

    • #17
    • December 11, 2019, at 9:17 AM PST
    • 1 like
  18. Arahant Member

    Joe D. (View Comment):

    Sorry, not up on my Astrology, why is it racist?

    It was developed by Aryans.

    • #18
    • December 11, 2019, at 9:42 AM PST
    • Like
  19. Jdetente Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I ask Jonah to post a video of him having a conversation with a pro-Trump person.

    I’ve mentioned this in the past as well. He should interview Victor Davis Hanson. It would be refreshing to see both of them have a long form discussion with someone on the other side of the Trump issue. As it is, both of them usually only speak with people who are relatively friendly to their position on Trump. I will hold my breath….

    • #19
    • December 11, 2019, at 9:52 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  20. Jon1979 Lincoln

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I ask Jonah to post a video of him having a conversation with a pro-Trump person.

    I’ve mentioned this in the past as well. He should interview Victor Davis Hanson. It would be refreshing to see both of them have a long form discussion with someone on the other side of the Trump issue. As it is, both of them usually only speak with people who are relatively friendly to their position on Trump. I will hold my breath….

    Go back and listen to the Eli Lake podcast with Jonah from two weeks ago. You can tell from how the conversation goes that Jonah’s not all that comfortable with Lake being more comfortable than him about Trump as compared to the alternatives to Trump.

    When he has a guest on that he’s simpatico with on subjects like that, Jonah tends to become playful and linger on the subject, because it’s fun to talk with like-minded people. With the Lake interview, there wasn’t any hostility or confrontation, but you could tell when Eli’s answers were too kind to Trump, there was no lingering to debate the point, and it was quickly on to the next question (to the point by the end of the interview you could see Jonah imitating the wolf in that old Bugs Bunny cartoon, telling Eli “YeahyeahIknowIknowthanksalotgoodbyegoodbyegoodbye” as he ushers him out of the studio door).

    • #20
    • December 11, 2019, at 10:59 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  21. Jdetente Member

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I ask Jonah to post a video of him having a conversation with a pro-Trump person.

    I’ve mentioned this in the past as well. He should interview Victor Davis Hanson. It would be refreshing to see both of them have a long form discussion with someone on the other side of the Trump issue. As it is, both of them usually only speak with people who are relatively friendly to their position on Trump. I will hold my breath….

    Go back and listen to the Eli Lake podcast with Jonah from two weeks ago. You can tell from how the conversation goes that Jonah’s not all that comfortable with Lake being more comfortable than him about Trump as compared to the alternatives to Trump.

    When he has a guest on that he’s simpatico with on subjects like that, Jonah tends to become playful and linger on the subject, because it’s fun to talk with like-minded people. With the Lake interview, there wasn’t any hostility or confrontation, but you could tell when Eli’s answers were too kind to Trump, there was no lingering to debate the point, and it was quickly on to the next question (to the point by the end of the interview you could see Jonah imitating the wolf in that old Bugs Bunny cartoon, telling Eli “YeahyeahIknowIknowthanksalotgoodbyegoodbyegoodbye” as he ushers him out of the studio door).

    I missed that episode. That doesn’t sound like good radio (pod). If you disagree, engage in the argument. That is interesting for the listeners and will either strengthen the ability to support your position or expose it. 

    • #21
    • December 11, 2019, at 11:30 AM PST
    • 1 like
  22. Jon1979 Lincoln

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I ask Jonah to post a video of him having a conversation with a pro-Trump person.

    I’ve mentioned this in the past as well. He should interview Victor Davis Hanson. It would be refreshing to see both of them have a long form discussion with someone on the other side of the Trump issue. As it is, both of them usually only speak with people who are relatively friendly to their position on Trump. I will hold my breath….

    Go back and listen to the Eli Lake podcast with Jonah from two weeks ago. You can tell from how the conversation goes that Jonah’s not all that comfortable with Lake being more comfortable than him about Trump as compared to the alternatives to Trump.

    When he has a guest on that he’s simpatico with on subjects like that, Jonah tends to become playful and linger on the subject, because it’s fun to talk with like-minded people. With the Lake interview, there wasn’t any hostility or confrontation, but you could tell when Eli’s answers were too kind to Trump, there was no lingering to debate the point, and it was quickly on to the next question (to the point by the end of the interview you could see Jonah imitating the wolf in that old Bugs Bunny cartoon, telling Eli “YeahyeahIknowIknowthanksalotgoodbyegoodbyegoodbye” as he ushers him out of the studio door).

    I missed that episode. That doesn’t sound like good radio (pod). If you disagree, engage in the argument. That is interesting for the listeners and will either strengthen the ability to support your position or expose it.

    The show’s basic pattern was Jonah thought X about Trump, and Eli didn’t think X was that bad, compared to Y that Trump’s opponents had planned, and then on to the next question (Lake made a point early on in noting he was not a Trump supporter. He just wasn’t as open to judging Trump in a vacuum).

    • #22
    • December 11, 2019, at 11:52 AM PST
    • 1 like
  23. Taras Coolidge

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I ask Jonah to post a video of him having a conversation with a pro-Trump person.

    I’ve mentioned this in the past as well. He should interview Victor Davis Hanson. It would be refreshing to see both of them have a long form discussion with someone on the other side of the Trump issue. As it is, both of them usually only speak with people who are relatively friendly to their position on Trump. I will hold my breath….

    Go back and listen to the Eli Lake podcast with Jonah from two weeks ago. You can tell from how the conversation goes that Jonah’s not all that comfortable with Lake being more comfortable than him about Trump as compared to the alternatives to Trump.

    When he has a guest on that he’s simpatico with on subjects like that, Jonah tends to become playful and linger on the subject, because it’s fun to talk with like-minded people. With the Lake interview, there wasn’t any hostility or confrontation, but you could tell when Eli’s answers were too kind to Trump, there was no lingering to debate the point, and it was quickly on to the next question (to the point by the end of the interview you could see Jonah imitating the wolf in that old Bugs Bunny cartoon, telling Eli “YeahyeahIknowIknowthanksalotgoodbyegoodbyegoodbye” as he ushers him out of the studio door).

    I missed that episode. That doesn’t sound like good radio (pod). If you disagree, engage in the argument. That is interesting for the listeners and will either strengthen the ability to support your position or expose it.

    “[W]hen Eli’s answers were too kind to Trump, there was no lingering [by Jonah] to debate the point, and it was quickly on to the next question”.

    This is ego protection: by someone who is not confident he can win the argument, but is unwilling to re-examine his views. We all do this sometimes.

    • #23
    • December 11, 2019, at 12:05 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  24. Bishop Wash, Blk X-man/Wh pilot Member

    Against Jonah’s advice, I visited meat circle, which could be sketchy. It’s a meat delivery service in India. Potential sponsor?

    Meat Circle is India’s first convenient online fresh meat ordering site based out in Hyderabad. With the wide range of options in every meat category, we give you the fresh and hygienic meat of best quality at fair prices…

    • #24
    • December 11, 2019, at 3:48 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  25. MACHO GRANDE' (aka - Chri… Coolidge

    Shawn Buell (Majestyk) (View Comment):

    Wrong opinions about Heat included for free, I see.

    I’ll buy the whole De Niro and Pacino thing, in Heat, but that is a great crime drama. And one hell of an action sequence when they have to fight their way down the street after walking out with millions on their backs.

    Also, here’s a couple other fantastic Michael Mann flicks. I really enjoy the description of people who like the Mann flicks as “small”, since, hey, tiny people are bad.

    Collateral – should be bad, but was a blast.

    Miami Vice – should have been horrible, but was a blast.

    Thief (Jimmy Caan at the height of his powers)

    Ali – didn’t think I’d like this much, liked it a lot

    Manhunter (origin flick for Hannibal Lecter)

    And, his best flick – Last of the Mohicans

     

    Are all of his flicks good? Nope. Blackhat was hideous. But throwing a pretty good director under the bus because Pacino’s yelling passes for acting, and De Niro’s tough guy crap doesn’t sell anymore, is weak tea.

     

     

     

    • #25
    • December 11, 2019, at 4:13 PM PST
    • 1 like
  26. kedavis Member

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I ask Jonah to post a video of him having a conversation with a pro-Trump person.

    I’ve mentioned this in the past as well. He should interview Victor Davis Hanson. It would be refreshing to see both of them have a long form discussion with someone on the other side of the Trump issue. As it is, both of them usually only speak with people who are relatively friendly to their position on Trump. I will hold my breath….

    Go back and listen to the Eli Lake podcast with Jonah from two weeks ago. You can tell from how the conversation goes that Jonah’s not all that comfortable with Lake being more comfortable than him about Trump as compared to the alternatives to Trump.

    When he has a guest on that he’s simpatico with on subjects like that, Jonah tends to become playful and linger on the subject, because it’s fun to talk with like-minded people. With the Lake interview, there wasn’t any hostility or confrontation, but you could tell when Eli’s answers were too kind to Trump, there was no lingering to debate the point, and it was quickly on to the next question (to the point by the end of the interview you could see Jonah imitating the wolf in that old Bugs Bunny cartoon, telling Eli “YeahyeahIknowIknowthanksalotgoodbyegoodbyegoodbye” as he ushers him out of the studio door).

    I missed that episode. That doesn’t sound like good radio (pod). If you disagree, engage in the argument. That is interesting for the listeners and will either strengthen the ability to support your position or expose it.

    Exactly. Jonah wants minimal exposure for his “argument,” which basically comes down to “Trump, icky.”

    • #26
    • December 11, 2019, at 4:42 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  27. kedavis Member

    Jim Wright (View Comment):

    The image for this episode is inspired. Thank you.

    For fan SERVICE, I expected work benches, screwdrivers and wrenches…

    That photo is more like fan SALES.

    • #27
    • December 11, 2019, at 4:44 PM PST
    • 1 like
  28. kedavis Member

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I ask Jonah to post a video of him having a conversation with a pro-Trump person.

    I’ve mentioned this in the past as well. He should interview Victor Davis Hanson. It would be refreshing to see both of them have a long form discussion with someone on the other side of the Trump issue. As it is, both of them usually only speak with people who are relatively friendly to their position on Trump. I will hold my breath….

    Yes, I’ve mentioned Jonah with VDH before too. But it would expose Jonah’s shallowness, because VDH would list off judges and tax cuts etc, etc, and Jonah would just say “icky.”

    • #28
    • December 11, 2019, at 4:45 PM PST
    • Like
  29. Merrijane Thatcher

    I love everything about this show. I love Jonah’s words, Rob’s attitude, and John’s voice. I award five cancel bears. 

    • #29
    • December 11, 2019, at 4:48 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  30. Merrijane Thatcher

    kedavis (View Comment):
    and Jonah would just say “icky.”

    This is a very unfair assessment of Jonah’s viewpoint and abilities to articulate it. 

    • #30
    • December 11, 2019, at 4:50 PM PST
    • 4 likes