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This week on the mighty GLoP podcast, we once again throw pre-agreed topics to the curb and let the Big Brains (that’s really what they make us call them) take the show where they will. So, we cover the infamous history of Rob’s NYC neighborhood, The Watchmen and The Man in The High Castle, whether or not The Irishman is trash or treasure, and are the Ferengis (characters on Star Trek: Voyager for you non-nerds) members of the Chosen People? A GLoP investigation. Finally, fair warning: we do some Rank Punditry® on impeachment and some of you may be get triggered by what you hear. We apologize in advance to those that don’t want to hear politics, and urge you to use your fast forward button the the last five minutes where we discuss Christmas vs. Hanukkah (or is it Chanukah?) and then do stick around for an outtake or two after the closing song.
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My sissified defense of All Films Mann notwithstanding, I laughed out loud on my run tonight while listening, a bunch of times. Good stuff.
That said, characterizing the NeverTrumps and AlwaysTrumps as these bipolar entities, that there’s no sort of common ground in between, is also an easy way out. But I get why, considering Jonah catches direct feedback on social media, and so does JPod.
The world doesn’t live in those two places, by the way. The bulk of the world doesn’t give a crap about it. The hysteria on the left that the planet will explode like the Death Star in 3 days or 12 years or whatever because Trump is president is just as extremely idiotic as someone thumping their dashboard in the car on their ride into work every time they see a MAGA sticker on another car.
But so what? Half the country doesn’t vote. Half of the part that does vote, plus one, decides who wins. To assume we have anything like a voice in what happens to us because the government is so goddamn large is just as ridiculous as broad assumptions about NeverTrumpers or AlwaysTrumpers or OccasionallyFlaccidTrumpDislikers.
We literally have almost no control over what the gov’t does to us. If anything, both of the groups I describe above should join together, and drag 535 fops out of their lofty, taxpayer-funded perches, strip them naked, and send them home, and they’re only allowed to hitchhike. And they have to shut up. Forever.
That’s the change I’m looking for. One can hope.
Did Hanson avoid debating with NeverTrumpers or did NTs avoid debating with him.
Point me to his wide ranging debate with reluctant or enthusiastic Trumper.
I don’t think a wide-ranging debate is necessary to demonstrate a person can say more than a rhetorical “icky.” Yes, it would be better if Jonah had a wider variety of guests on, but the charge leveled seemed to be along the lines that he is (a) incapable of articulating his position and (b) that since he doesn’t “linger” over guest answers he isn’t convinced by, that he must not have a good answer. To me it seems more like he’s allowing the guest to have the last word since everyone already knows what Jonah thinks. Does this assume something about a person’s motivation that I can’t possibly know for sure? Yes. Puts me in good company on this site.
I’ve heard Jonah (try to) articulate his anti-Trump attitudes. Not just here, but also on his “solo” podcast The Remnant. What it boils down to, whether or not he actually uses the word himself, is “icky.” And no matter how many words he actually said about it with/to VDH or someone else, it would boil down to “icky.”
Or, the way others put it, “Orange Man Bad.”
I think the latter is a good possibility but it’s hard to say from the outside.
@merrijane
Personally I think Jonah can make a better case than “icky” but it would be more illuminating to see an actual debate play out. As it is, he makes the argument here with two guys who generally agree, on the Remmant solo, or in print. Seeing him and VDH wrestle with this issue would be a treat.
Here’s a screen cap of National Review’s splash page for tonight. I don’t think anyone would consider Kevin Williamson as a Sean Hannity clone, but even he’s going after the violations committed by the FBI in his piece, and the other pieces on the front page cover slightly different subjects, but are similar thematically.
Jonah’s column (linked at the bottom of the page) is marching to the beat of its own drummer. I do realize this is his Creators Syndicate piece and has a longer gestation time than one NR specific, and that unlike the others, he has been directly mocked by Trump, and that can’t be enjoyable. But the subject matter juxtaposition here does seem to go out of its way not to talk about the elephant of an IG report that’s in the room, in order to focus on something he finds more enjoyable to discuss, which is Trump’s Ukraine kerfuffle (and I’m someone who thinks that as much as Trump was talking about Biden in the spring, the fact that Trump would want Ukraine to investigate Hunter in order to hurt dad is no surprise at all).
What Jonah sometimes actually says is “loathsome” but that isn’t significantly different from “icky” and “loathsome” is just trying to sound erudite. I think “icky” better makes the point that Jonah just doesn’t like Trump for mostly (immature) personal reasons having little or nothing to do with actual performance in office.
My guess is that VDH would not be willing to speak with Jonah Goldberg, David French or Steve Hayes.
One could only hope for a VDH vs. JVL interview, especially for the headline writer.
Lastly, how about a VDH interview with Charlie Sykes, Steve Schmidt, or Mike Murphy?
I don’t know, but I want to hear the debate.
Or maybe it would be to call Trump the “Anti-Reagan.”
Why do you think he wouldn’t be willing to speak to Hayes, Goldberg, or French? I haven’t heard or seen anything to suggest he wouldn’t sit down with them.
I agree. I expect it would be slightly irritable on both sides, but an articulate and good faith argument. I’d like to hear something where the purpose isn’t necessarily to change each other’s minds or DESTROY the other side for clicks, but to just understand and be OK with the fact that opinions differ. I get that a lot of people don’t like or agree with Jonah. But it would be unfair of me to characterize their legitimate disagreements as “Jonah stoopid” or pretend they can’t articulate it beyond that.
I have not heard VDH be interviewed except by Trump Supporters.
Chicken or egg question which I addressed previously.
Actually, if I remember correctly, while Trump referred to Jonah specifically, he was actually confusing him with Steve Hayes. Kind of funny in retrospect that Jonah and Steve are now doing The Dispatch together. I guess Trump is even more prescient than some of us give him credit for. 🤣
Not to trigger you or anything, but:
If @garyrobbins didn’t exist, we would have to invent him.
Earlier this year, VDH sat for a — ferociously hostile — interview by Isaac Chotiner of The New Yorker:
https://www.realclearbooks.com/2019/03/08/the_new_yorker_interviews_victor_davis_hanson_17078.html
VDH holds his own pretty well. I recommend it.
Because Trump has done a better job of selecting Supreme Court Justices than Reagan did? Because Trump’s tax cut wasn’t followed by a tax increase?
Thanks. Has VDH been interviewed by a “Country First” Republican?
Stop trying to make fetch happen, Gary.
Maybe Trump is the Reagan for the 21st Century?
Since VDH owns a farm, doesn’t that make him a “Country First” Republican more than any of the other guys?
I recommend this Ricochet Podcast recorded on 1/20/17, aka Inauguration Day with Victor, Jay Nordlinger, and Mona Charen (they are all on together at one point). Have not listened to it since we did it, but my memory is that the conversation gets pretty contentious.
http://ricochet.com/podcast/ricochet-podcast/inauguration-day/
Also, a pat on my own back for playing REM’s “Orange Crush” as the closing song.
Thirty-five months later, have Nordlinger and Charen learned anything?
Or are they stuck on the positions they held in the first few minutes of the Trump Presidency?
If Mona has kept up on her cello lessons in the DC suburbs, I figure in the past thirty-five (35) months she’s learned a couple of nice concerto pieces. Very nice music, totally not icky.
Mona is over at The Bulwark and she has a podcast called “Beg to Differ.” https://begtodiffer.thebulwark.com/theyre-laughing-at-us
When did she leave (or flee) Ricochet? I hadn’t noticed her podcast was gone.
I’d be interested in reading her current position on Trump, but I don’t think I could sit through a podcast.
Actually, Danny Glover shot the SA ambassador at the end of Lethal Weapon 2, and says “Revoked,” or something like it.