A False Dichotomy: Be Patsies, or Be Like Them

 

I’m pretty much a broken record on the theme of speaking out, arguing that conservatives have to express conservative ideas boldly, and as clearly and with as much grace as we can muster. One common response to this is the claim that we’ve tried that and it hasn’t worked, and that now we have to adopt the techniques of our opponents.

I ran into this just today, when I suggested on another thread that the woke practice of “doxxing” (publishing personal information about private citizens) and getting people fired for the things they say or do on their own time was something we conservatives should not embrace. I’ve tried to make the same point on other occasions about such things as violating people’s first amendment rights, electoral cheating, and lying to further the conservative agenda. These are all things our opponents do. I don’t think that we should do them.

A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that we really have tried boldly speaking out, and that that’s now been proven to be inadequate. I don’t believe that. I think that the majority of conservatives are “normal” Americans (which Old Bathos very competently described in this comment), and normal Americans are reluctant to counter the prevailing media/academic/entertainment narrative that ever-faster seeps like a miasma into every facet of our lives.

Most of us don’t want to be the cranky relative at the family gathering arguing that mask mandates probably do more harm than good. Most of us don’t want to be the one who points out that BLM is a fraud. Most of us don’t want to be the insensitive so-and-so who argues that the “trans” movement is a dangerous fad, that America is as far from a racist country as one is likely to get, and that what torments our black communities is bad policies and broken culture, not anti-black bigotry.

So most of us don’t speak out. Many aren’t equipped — with information, temperament, or opportunity — to express those views. Others are worried about the professional or social blowback. There are lots of reasons why conservatives tend to be quiet, but the reality is that we do.

Pay attention to how free progressives are to give vent to their opinions. People who parrot the conventional leftist narrative clearly feel safe repeating what they hear on the radio and television, read in the paper, learn in school. It’s the air they breathe — that we all breathe. It takes no boldness or real conviction to go along with what looks like the majority view — even if it isn’t really the majority view.

Those of us who can speak up without endangering our livelihoods have to do so, and do so in ways that other normal people find persuasive and inspiring. We have to be reasonably well informed, well self-controlled, and understand that others need our example so that they, too, feel more free to stand up and be heard.

We have the advantage that we make sense and they do not. Most Americans still believe the things we believe. They just don’t realize that they’re in the majority, and that, if they speak out, they’ll be joined by others.

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  1. MARTIN WORNATH Coolidge
    MARTIN WORNATH
    @ManOfTheWest

    Maybe we don’t need to doxx people, but we can let it be known that anyone who threatens us in our homes will be in danger of being met with deadly force. BTW, I didn’t agree with everything you said, but I “liked” your essay because you stated your case well.

    • #121
  2. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Ah. Well then, we’re back to law enforcement. We agree that the law should be enforced.

    Nah. Military actions are not law enforcement. I’m talking about using the US army to stop them. That is legal, but absolutely not law enforcement. Posse Comitatus should be suspended to destroy them.

    Hmm. A moment ago you said that you weren’t talking about extra-judicial violence. Now you’re saying that you’re calling for violence that isn’t law enforcement. Do you see the courts being in charge of the military, somehow? Or are we back to talking about extra-judicial violence?

    In either case, I think the military is probably overkill in this context. I think Antifa gets away with it because everyone treats them like they’re somehow noble, rather than the loudmouth street punks they are. If the police stood up to them and enforced the law when they came around, I think it would end pretty quickly.

    Military law is not extrajudicial. 

    • #122
  3. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    MARTIN WORNATH (View Comment):

    Maybe we don’t need to doxx people, but we can let it be known that anyone who threatens us in our homes will be in danger of being met with deadly force. BTW, I didn’t agree with everything you said, but I “liked” your essay because you stated your case well.

    You just switched sides without knowing it.  We-all, your new team, already make this same distinction.  It’s why we aren’t patsies. But we can always use a few more folks who are good in a knife fight.

    • #123
  4. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    MARTIN WORNATH (View Comment):

    Maybe we don’t need to doxx people, but we can let it be known that anyone who threatens us in our homes will be in danger of being met with deadly force.

    That has always been my personal policy.

    BTW, I didn’t agree with everything you said, but I “liked” your essay because you stated your case well.

    Thank you. I don’t always agree with everything I say, either — at least, not on second reading.

     

    • #124
  5. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Ah. Well then, we’re back to law enforcement. We agree that the law should be enforced.

    Nah. Military actions are not law enforcement. I’m talking about using the US army to stop them. That is legal, but absolutely not law enforcement. Posse Comitatus should be suspended to destroy them.

    Hmm. A moment ago you said that you weren’t talking about extra-judicial violence. Now you’re saying that you’re calling for violence that isn’t law enforcement. Do you see the courts being in charge of the military, somehow? Or are we back to talking about extra-judicial violence?

    In either case, I think the military is probably overkill in this context. I think Antifa gets away with it because everyone treats them like they’re somehow noble, rather than the loudmouth street punks they are. If the police stood up to them and enforced the law when they came around, I think it would end pretty quickly.

    Military law is not extrajudicial.

    Oh? How about if we refer to your recommendation as “martial law?”  

    • #125
  6. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Ah. Well then, we’re back to law enforcement. We agree that the law should be enforced.

    Nah. Military actions are not law enforcement. I’m talking about using the US army to stop them. That is legal, but absolutely not law enforcement. Posse Comitatus should be suspended to destroy them.

    Hmm. A moment ago you said that you weren’t talking about extra-judicial violence. Now you’re saying that you’re calling for violence that isn’t law enforcement. Do you see the courts being in charge of the military, somehow? Or are we back to talking about extra-judicial violence?

    In either case, I think the military is probably overkill in this context. I think Antifa gets away with it because everyone treats them like they’re somehow noble, rather than the loudmouth street punks they are. If the police stood up to them and enforced the law when they came around, I think it would end pretty quickly.

    Military law is not extrajudicial.

    Oh? How about if we refer to your recommendation as “martial law?”

    I don’t think he’s talking about summary executions.  (But I really don’t know.)

    • #126
  7. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Ah. Well then, we’re back to law enforcement. We agree that the law should be enforced.

    Nah. Military actions are not law enforcement. I’m talking about using the US army to stop them. That is legal, but absolutely not law enforcement. Posse Comitatus should be suspended to destroy them.

    Hmm. A moment ago you said that you weren’t talking about extra-judicial violence. Now you’re saying that you’re calling for violence that isn’t law enforcement. Do you see the courts being in charge of the military, somehow? Or are we back to talking about extra-judicial violence?

    In either case, I think the military is probably overkill in this context. I think Antifa gets away with it because everyone treats them like they’re somehow noble, rather than the loudmouth street punks they are. If the police stood up to them and enforced the law when they came around, I think it would end pretty quickly.

    Military law is not extrajudicial.

    Oh? How about if we refer to your recommendation as “martial law?”

    That seems to be where he’s heading, yes.

    You know, 2020 gave me more than enough usurpation of normal civil government. I don’t want any more of it — certainly not to deal with something as minor as the Antifa creeps. Legislate that they go unmasked, flood the zone with cameras, and prosecute them.

    • #127
  8. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Organized crime is a menace. We don’t want to get like Mexico and Central America.

     

    • #128
  9. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Organized crime is a menace. We don’t want to get like Mexico and Central America.

     

    Good idea. Outlaw the Democrat party. 

    • #129
  10. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    . . .

    That’s how I try to do it. There are some common sense rules I try to follow (not always successfully):

    1. Always be polite and never lose your temper. Avoid seeming like a bully.
    2. Never argue with a person on the left unless there’s an audience that might be persuaded. Otherwise it’s just a frustrating waste of time and energy. Always remember that you’re speaking to the audience; they’re the ones you want to win over.
    3. Always be truthful in your arguments.
    4. Be reasonably well informed, and keep it simple and focused on things the audience values.
    5. Never argue with an intoxicated person.

    Sometimes there are opportunities to do that. Sometimes it just isn’t the right time. It isn’t always easy. But I think more of us have to do it, and more often.

    I suggest a different common sense rule:

    1. Don’t imagine that you can live properly by following a short list of simple rules.

    Hank, I particularly disagree with your first rule.  It creates no room for righteous indignation.  I’m not sure that your rule 1 is scriptural.

    I seem to recall Jesus clearing the Temple.  I recall him calling Peter “Satan.”  I recall him telling the Sermon on the Mount crowd that they were evil.  I recall him calling a Jewish crowd something like “sons of your father the Devil.”  I recall him calling the scribes and Pharisees a “brood of vipers” and “whitewashed tombs” and telling them that they make their followers “twice as much a son of Hell as you are.”  Or something like that.

    • #130
  11. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    My goal is to give people words to use in response to the things they hear, and to reassure them that they aren’t alone when they think “that doesn’t sound right.”

    This is the best and frankly only answer to the current problem.

    This is also the tremendous value of Ricochet. It helps members find those succinct and powerful words and it helps them gain confidence to use them in other settings. I can guarantee members that arguments and rhetorical points they sculpture here will stand out in any other setting in which they eventually use them.

    It takes an enormous amount of time and hard work to arrive at those words and phrases that resonate with people. But it is worthwhile, and without this forum and work, it’s unlikely we’ll find the right answers to the Left because we need the feedback of our fellow members to guide our sculpting hands. The Left has a numerical advantage right now, but there is hope we can prevail with common sense. The suddenly growing popularity of DeSantis and Florida are all the evidence I need that there is hope that the sane Right will eventually win the important arguments.

    All the work we do here will pay off eventually. We will find those words and phrases that strike at a universal human purpose and sensibility.

    There’s an interesting history behind Twitter. I’ve been around the Internet so long that I actually remember how it started. :-) A programmer whose name I do not remember (his name began with a T, I think, something like “Taggert” I think, and it’s not listed with the names of the founders on Wikipedia so I don’t know what happened to him, ) had a political website that was very popular. To beef up that website, he wanted to track political conversations that were happening around the Internet using just real-time Internet traffic data. He, or programmers he hired, accomplish that feat. So began political coverage based on conversation “tags.”

    I don’t know how or why the forty-character comment became part of that invention (rather than longer-form comments). But the combination of the brief responses to the news of the day, which played to an information-overloaded, give-me-the-bottom-line boomer mindset, and the ability of people to see how many of their fellow people shared their bottom-line reaction to the news headlines was powerful. Twitter is here to stay. And only because of that initial forty-character cap.

    We won’t get to the right forty characters without a lot of analysis and argument. Ricochet can help. Ricochet is like Twitter in that it reveals the current public opinion, at least as I’ve seen it expressed on the Wall Street Journal and other right-leaning websites. If your ideas work here, they will stand out everywhere.

    • #131
  12. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    My goal is to give people words to use in response to the things they hear, and to reassure them that they aren’t alone when they think “that doesn’t sound right.”

    This is the best and frankly only answer to the current problem.

    This is also the tremendous value of Ricochet. It helps members find those succinct and powerful words and it helps them gain confidence to use them in other settings. I can guarantee members that arguments and rhetorical points they sculpture here will stand out in any other setting in which they eventually use them.

    It takes an enormous amount of time and hard work to arrive at those words and phrases that resonate with people. But it is worthwhile, and without this forum and work, it’s unlikely we’ll find the right answers to the Left because we need the feedback of our fellow members to guide our sculpting hands. The Left has a numerical advantage right now, but there is hope we can prevail with common sense. The suddenly growing popularity of DeSantis and Florida are all the evidence I need that there is hope that the sane Right will eventually win the important arguments.

    All the work we do here will pay off eventually. We will find those words and phrases that strike at a universal human purpose and sensibility.

    There’s an interesting history behind Twitter. I’ve been around the Internet so long that I actually remember how it started. :-) A programmer whose name I do not remember (his name began with a T, I think, something like “Taggert” I think, and it’s not listed with the names of the founders on Wikipedia so I don’t know what happened to him, ) had a political website that was very popular. To beef up that website, he wanted to track political conversations that were happening around the Internet using just real-time Internet traffic data. He, or programmers he hired, accomplish that feat. So began political coverage based on conversation “tags.”

    I don’t know how or why the forty-character comment became part of that invention (rather than longer-form comments). But the combination of the brief responses to the news of the day, which played to an information-overloaded, give-me-the-bottom-line boomer mindset, and the ability of people to see how many of their fellow people shared their bottom-line reaction to the news headlines was powerful. Twitter is here to stay.

    But Ricochet is a little like Twitter in that it fairly and accurately represents public opinion, at least as I’ve seen it expressed on the Wall Street Journal and other right-leaning websites. The group of people gathered here is absolutely representative of public opinion. Readers can see public opinion as it is forming in real time. If your ideas work here, they will stand out and work anywhere.

     

     

    Wow!  Well-said, Marci.

    • #132
  13. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Flicker (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Ah. Well then, we’re back to law enforcement. We agree that the law should be enforced.

    Nah. Military actions are not law enforcement. I’m talking about using the US army to stop them. That is legal, but absolutely not law enforcement. Posse Comitatus should be suspended to destroy them.

    Hmm. A moment ago you said that you weren’t talking about extra-judicial violence. Now you’re saying that you’re calling for violence that isn’t law enforcement. Do you see the courts being in charge of the military, somehow? Or are we back to talking about extra-judicial violence?

    In either case, I think the military is probably overkill in this context. I think Antifa gets away with it because everyone treats them like they’re somehow noble, rather than the loudmouth street punks they are. If the police stood up to them and enforced the law when they came around, I think it would end pretty quickly.

    Military law is not extrajudicial.

    Oh? How about if we refer to your recommendation as “martial law?”

    I don’t think he’s talking about summary executions. (But I really don’t know.)

    Of course not.

    • #133
  14. Caltory Coolidge
    Caltory
    @Caltory

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Caltory (View Comment):

    You’ve lost me. What question did I allegedly beg–the premise that a false reduction to two options is not a sufficient reason to call an argument a false dichotomy?

    I’m claiming that your use of the words “false reduction” (thus my emphasis in quoting you) presumes its own conclusion. It is one thing to say “The assumption that there are Patsies and Non-Patsies is false because the Universal Quantifier Human Beings contains Existential Quantifiers of Patsies, Non-Patsies, the Ignorant, (and possibly more).” It is something else to say “The reduction of the Universal Quantifier Human Beings into the two Existential Quantifiers in your thesis is faulty.” This is how I interpreted your remark about “false reduction.” (Apologies if that is an unfair characterization of what you intended.)

    My memory (a very large and inflamed Achilles heel) of dichotomy academically is that it requires two mutually exclusive and exhaustive sets. This is something the OED addresses only to the extent that we agree on what is meant by “division.” Are human beings divided into Patsies and Non-Patsies? To shape a dichotomy, no other subset of human beings is allowed. (I noticed you suggested as much with your reference to a trichotomy.)

    My criticism of your analysis simply attacks its form, viz: stipulating that a Universal Set contained a false reduction of subsets. On the substantive question of whether the Existential sets of Patsies and Non-Patsies exhaustively form a Universal set, I am doubtful–a condition that finds you and me in agreement on everything except just how many angels are dancing the the head of this pin.

    • #134
  15. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Hank, I particularly disagree

    What a surprise! This is so out of character. ;-)

    • #135
  16. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    Wow!  Well-said, Marci.

    Thank you. :-) It took two cups of coffee to put that together. :-) :-) 

    • #136
  17. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Henry Racette: We have the advantage that we make sense and they do not. Most Americans still believe the things we believe. They just don’t realize that they’re in the majority, and that, if they speak out, they’ll be joined by others.

    Here’s the problem:

    1. You can be in the majority but it makes little difference if you don’t have a megaphone equal to that of those you oppose. The woke crowd understands the power of intimidation. You don’t allay the fears of those who are bullied into silence unless you push back – and just as loudly.
    2. The world works better when similar actions have similar consequences. All order breaks down when one side is free to do as they please while others suffer for their actions. That’s true with the law and with society in general. That’s why the left plays the “disproportionate” card so heavily. They know that, true or not, people can be manipulated and emotionally roused if the case can be made of the unequal application of power. By ignoring it on our side, by being “bigger” than the Marxists, you bring the rank-and-file of the conservative side to the same emotional place. Even if you are among those that fervently believe Trump was a demagog, you must realize that if you advocate for not fighting back it will set the stage for someone really demagogic and someone more competent at it than The Donald.
    • #137
  18. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    Henry Racette:

    Most of us don’t want to be the cranky relative at the family gathering arguing that mask mandates probably do more harm than good. Most of us don’t want to be the one who points out that BLM is a fraud. Most of us don’t want to be the insensitive so-and-so who argues that the “trans” movement is a dangerous fad, that America is as far from a racist country as one is likely to get, and that what torments our black communities is bad policies and broken culture, not anti-black bigotry.

    So most of us don’t speak out. Many aren’t equipped — with information, temperament, or opportunity — to express those views. Others are worried about the professional or social blowback. There are lots of reasons why conservatives tend to be quiet, but the reality is that we do.

    I’ve ruined my fair share of family dinners without coming close to being a crank. Speaking out effectively requires a unique set of skills. I don’t suppose they can be taught but they can be developed, and like golf it’s a game most can play and improve on until the end.

    Maybe the best starting place for conservative quietists is to start by trying to identify those friends and family members who are still old fashioned liberals and prod about without even trying to convince them of anything. Perhaps more important is to get better at identifying the ones who are potentially lost for good.

    Great post, Mr. R!

    • #138
  19. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    I’ve ruined my fair share of family dinners without coming close to being a crank.

    “Define assault weapon”. I didn’t say anything else. 

    That was my biggest mistake of 2016. My brother-in-law went insane. lol

    • #139
  20. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    I’ve ruined my fair share of family dinners without coming close to being a crank.

    “Define assault weapon”. I didn’t say anything else.

    That was my biggest mistake of 2016. My brother-in-law went insane. lol

    That’s the problem, isn’t it?  You can’t even talk about things anymore. 

    • #140
  21. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Skyler (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    I’ve ruined my fair share of family dinners without coming close to being a crank.

    “Define assault weapon”. I didn’t say anything else.

    That was my biggest mistake of 2016. My brother-in-law went insane. lol

    That’s the problem, isn’t it? You can’t even talk about things anymore.

    I have so many examples, but I just can’t do it today.

    • #141
  22. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    I’ve ruined my fair share of family dinners without coming close to being a crank.

    “Define assault weapon”. I didn’t say anything else.

    That was my biggest mistake of 2016. My brother-in-law went insane. lol

    That’s the problem, isn’t it? You can’t even talk about things anymore.

    I have so many examples, but I just can’t do it today.

    In this case, he has heard the word so much he thinks it is actually functional and meaningful, when it really isn’t. Why would the Democrats use a non-functional word?

    All he did over and over is physically act out a semiautomatic gun firing really fast. Over and over. He eventually left the house without any explanation. It was nuts. 

    He had never thought about any of this. 

     

    • #142
  23. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

     

    • #143
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    John Racette (View Comment):

    Bro, I’m trying to agree you, like you told me I’d have to if I expected to get along around here, but what’s that expression? Oh, yeah: Shut up, jerk!

     

    Pretty much.

     

    Enlarged for everyone’s convenience.  (I hope.)

    • #144
  25. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    . . .

    That’s how I try to do it. There are some common sense rules I try to follow (not always successfully):

    1. Always be polite and never lose your temper. Avoid seeming like a bully.
    2. Never argue with a person on the left unless there’s an audience that might be persuaded. Otherwise it’s just a frustrating waste of time and energy. Always remember that you’re speaking to the audience; they’re the ones you want to win over.
    3. Always be truthful in your arguments.
    4. Be reasonably well informed, and keep it simple and focused on things the audience values.
    5. Never argue with an intoxicated person.

    Sometimes there are opportunities to do that. Sometimes it just isn’t the right time. It isn’t always easy. But I think more of us have to do it, and more often.

    I suggest a different common sense rule:

    1. Don’t imagine that you can live properly by following a short list of simple rules.

    Hank, I particularly disagree with your first rule. It creates no room for righteous indignation. I’m not sure that your rule 1 is scriptural.

    I seem to recall Jesus clearing the Temple. I recall him calling Peter “Satan.” I recall him telling the Sermon on the Mount crowd that they were evil. I recall him calling a Jewish crowd something like “sons of your father the Devil.” I recall him calling the scribes and Pharisees a “brood of vipers” and “whitewashed tombs” and telling them that they make their followers “twice as much a son of Hell as you are.” Or something like that.

    Jerry, if I were Jesus I would probably use a different list of rules. But we don’t have a problem with people being excessively polite, rather with the opposite. Of course people will adjust rules as they see fit. We’re not robots. I’m just trying to provide some common sense guidance.

    • #145
  26. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Jerry, if I were Jesus I would probably use a different list of rules. But we don’t have a problem with people being excessively polite, rather with the opposite. Of course people will adjust rules as they see fit. We’re not robots. I’m just trying to provide some common sense guidance.

    Well, I don’t agree with this, either.  I think that we do have a problem with conservative people being excessively polite.  They see a man like Bruce Jenner and agree to call him “Caitlin” and “her,” and we all end up having to lie about trans people all of the time.  We don’t push back, because we’re too polite.  At least, that’s the way that I see it, much of the time.

    • #146
  27. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Jerry, if I were Jesus I would probably use a different list of rules. But we don’t have a problem with people being excessively polite, rather with the opposite. Of course people will adjust rules as they see fit. We’re not robots. I’m just trying to provide some common sense guidance.

    Well, I don’t agree with this, either. I think that we do have a problem with conservative people being excessively polite. They see a man like Bruce Jenner and agree to call him “Caitlin” and “her,” and we all end up having to lie about trans people all of the time. We don’t push back, because we’re too polite. At least, that’s the way that I see it, much of the time.

    I was talking about within the context of an argument, Jerry. The whole point of my post is that we SHOULD argue. But we should do so graciously, to persuade those who are afraid to speak up.

    • #147
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Jerry, if I were Jesus I would probably use a different list of rules. But we don’t have a problem with people being excessively polite, rather with the opposite. Of course people will adjust rules as they see fit. We’re not robots. I’m just trying to provide some common sense guidance.

    Well, I don’t agree with this, either. I think that we do have a problem with conservative people being excessively polite. They see a man like Bruce Jenner and agree to call him “Caitlin” and “her,” and we all end up having to lie about trans people all of the time. We don’t push back, because we’re too polite. At least, that’s the way that I see it, much of the time.

    Is it possible to be… courteous, or something… to the individual, without somehow appearing to give acceptance to the movement?

    • #148
  29. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Jerry, if I were Jesus I would probably use a different list of rules. But we don’t have a problem with people being excessively polite, rather with the opposite. Of course people will adjust rules as they see fit. We’re not robots. I’m just trying to provide some common sense guidance.

    Well, I don’t agree with this, either. I think that we do have a problem with conservative people being excessively polite. They see a man like Bruce Jenner and agree to call him “Caitlin” and “her,” and we all end up having to lie about trans people all of the time. We don’t push back, because we’re too polite. At least, that’s the way that I see it, much of the time.

    Is it possible to be… courteous, or something… to the individual, without somehow appearing to give acceptance to the movement?

    Perhaps what I mean when I speak of being “polite” is ambiguous. I don’t mean that we have to sugarcoat a message. I think the trans movement is destructive and foolish, a fad that is injuring countless young people and quietly sanctioning emotional abnormality and confusion. So-called trans-women are in fact men, so-called trans-men are in fact women. Sex doesn’t change, and there are only two.

    You can say all that, and refuse to indulge pronoun fantasy, and still not be rude and angry. And if you couch it in concern for people who are led astray by this nonsense, it can even be shown to be kind.

    I will never advocate embracing a fiction in the interests of being courteous — except in response to questions of the “do you like my hair?” variety.

    • #149
  30. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    I’ve ruined my fair share of family dinners without coming close to being a crank.

    “Define assault weapon”. I didn’t say anything else.

    That was my biggest mistake of 2016. My brother-in-law went insane. lol

    Good thing he wasn’t carrying.

    • #150
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