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Your Opinion on Impeachment
I’d like to gauge the extent of support for, or opposition to, impeachment among the Ricochetti. Here’s what I ask you to do: I’m going to set forth two questions, and if you’re interested in participating, I ask that you answer them in the comments. This will work better if you refrain from commenting or arguing, and simply state your answers.
The two questions are:
- At this moment, do you support or oppose the impeachment and conviction of President Trump? I recommend that you answer either “support impeachment and conviction,” “oppose impeachment and conviction,” or “undecided.”
- Have you changed your mind on the question of impeachment and removal? I recommend that you answer either “I have changed my mind as events unfolded” or “I have not changed my mind as events unfolded.” The purpose of this question is to gauge whether additional consideration, during the past 8 days or so, has altered any initial opinion that you may have formed.
I should add that, by answering question 1, I do not think that you should be bound to that answer in the future. You may learn additional facts, or you may be persuaded by additional arguments, in either direction.
Prior to this recommended poll, I have two data points about the level of support for impeachment and conviction among folks on the political right:
- Among the Ricochetti, the data suggest that we are close to 50-50. Jon Gabriel posted (here) on January 6, stating that the President should be impeached, convicted, and removed, and that post currently has 47 likes. I posted (here) on January 8, strongly criticizing the call for impeachment, and that post currently has 50 likes.
- Among Republican Congressmen, 200 opposed impeachment, 10 voted for impeachment (with 1 absent and not yet determined).
My answers: I oppose impeachment and conviction. I have not changed my mind as events unfolded.
Published in Politics
That is certainly your prerogative. However, might I suggest that you are ascribing too much power, etc. to me?
And your people are trying to smear Trump supporters with the most heinous crimes, stirring up fear and loathing of them by turning Washington into an armed camp. Given that’s the behavior of your side, you better not complain about being held responsible for the crimes and human rights violations of the Biden camp.
Ronald Reagan once famously said that someone who agreed with him 80% of the time was his 80% friend, not his 20% enemy. Voting is a package deal. I had a choice of voting for a Republican who endorsed a majority of my views, but who was (and is) an authoritarian, and who has horrible character and is divisive, or to vote for my first Democrat for President since 1972 who I disagree with on a majority of issues, but who is not an authoritarian and a uniter, not a divider. I choose the latter.
Given Trump’s total unwillingness to accept the verdict of the voters, his attempted coup, his telephone call to the Georgia Secretary of State, and the January 6, 2021 riot, I believe even more strongly now that I made the right decision.
A man will hear what he wants to hear and disregard the rest.
No one has ever shown Trump to be authoritarian. You just admitted he was a majority “friend.” Yet you voted for the communist. You make no sense.
So you sold out Ronald Reagan, too, Gary. Because you agreed with more than 80% of the man’s policies, but you turned him into a 100% enemy regardless. And you supported a candidate whose policies you disagree with nearly 95% because of your personal pique against Donald Trump.
Way to go, Gary, way to go.
I’m sure this has been hit elsewhere, but Pelosi herself doesn’t believe in impeachment – if she did, she wouldn’t be sitting on her shiny new articles and not submitting them to the Senate, using the inauguration as cover.
Apparently it’s not as urgent a national crisis as the hysterics would have us believe.
Also, one other note: Where are the findings in the articles of impeachment? There’s been no testimony, no research of the events, no investigations – there hasn’t been enough time. In the days since the incident, the timeline of events, the fact that some of the rioters announced their intentions ahead of time, before the event, on social media, means that the Trump rally was just cover for their actions, knowing Trump would be blamed for it.
Which might still be accurate, in terms of at least shared responsibility. With the rush to impeachment, it’ll all just come out later, facts, but we’ll be well into BidenLand by that point, and it won’t matter.
My favorite Gary TDS pretzel logic is:
Writing a manifesto in full throated support of Impeachment 1.0 which accused Trump of encouraging the Ukie President to investigate the blatant corruption of the Biden Family business dealings in the Ukraine. The impeachable crime being Trump essentially attempted to extort the Ukies to investigate the Biden Family criminality, which was never investigated in the first place because, as Obama’s VP Biden extorted(Why not Impeachable???) the Ukies not to investigate the Biden Family business(ie: Burisma) with the threat of withholding US aid. Worse yet we know this because not only was the Ukie prosecutor investigating Burisma fired, but because Biden himself has publicly confirmed he was the one who had the prosecutor fired via the threat of withholding US aid.
Next, the Hunter Biden laptop revelations further corroborated the Biden Family Ukrainian corruption, yet our little friend STILL holds onto his Impeachment 1.0 manifesto thesis that Trump was criminal to encourage the Ukies to investigate the Biden Family corruption, moreover that Trump should be impeached for doing so ….. and, turning all logic on it’s head, campaigning that all (R)’s should vote for the blatantly corrupt Joe Biden.
Not to be outdone, after all we know about the Hunter Biden laptop info drop further confirming what we already suspected about the sleaze and corruption of Joe Biden, Gary still votes for the corrupt Biden to be President, is euphoric when Biden wins the Presidency, and then goes all in on Impeachment 2.0 to remove a President who is no longer in office????
That my friends is one serious case of TDS induced loss of coherency, mind fog, twisted logic.
It’s certainly telling that the ones who called Trump an authoritarian dictator for the last four years have decided to take on the characteristic they falsely ascribed to him.
They’ve been looking into a mirror thinking they were looking through a window.
To be authoritarian requires action, and no one was more authoritarian against the political opposition, the press, and ordinary citizens than Obama.
1. Political opposition – turning the CIA inward to engage in the domestic! spying of US senators (as well as think tanks, the Israelis, and other foreign ministers) opposed to the Iran deal. John Brennan has openly admitted that this spying occurred. Then at the end of his presidency and even after he left office, Obama’s surrogates spied on, attempted to infiltrate opposition party political campaigns, attempted to honey trap/entrap George Papadapolis and Carter Page, directed administration officials to unmask Republicans in dozens of surveilled conversations, created perjury traps for Flynn, deceptively briefed and purposely withheld information from the newly elected president to predicate the release of the Hilary Clinton campaign created-bought-paid for Steel dossier by the press, illegally leaked classified information on multiple occasions, illegally accepted gifts/perks/bribes from members of the press (revealed by the FBI Inspector General), falsified information presented to the FISA court on multiple occasions, and criminally altered FBI 302 forms (there’s a lot more I’m sure, but the list is long). (This was centered on Trump because he became the Republican nominee and won the election, but does anyone seriously think Obama wasn’t planning on/prepared to spy on and sabotage any of the other Republican candidates if they had won the nomination?) Then there’s the Rod Rosenstein controversy about wearing a wire to bolster attempts to remove Trump through the 25th Amendment.
2. The Press – attempted to prosecute James Rosen for leaked information he received, wiretapped the Associated Press, attempted to permanently ban Fox News (the entire network, not just a temporary ban on one reporter from CNN like Trump’s dispute with Jim Acosta) from White House press briefings, hacked into and placed monitoring software/spyware onto Sheryl Atkinson’s computer (an issue which is still being litigated until this day), created a disinformation campaign/echo chamber of fake think tanks and experts to mislead the press on the Iran deal (which Ben Rhodes later bragged about in an interview).
3. Ordinary citizens – jailed the filmmaker of an obscure YouTube video as part of the disinformation campaign following the Benghazi attack, weaponized the IRS to stifle, intimidate, and delay/prevent 501.c3 tea party organizations from being able to organize, fund raise, and fully participate in the 2012 election.
Now Obama’s VP is about to be nominated president. A VP who was present at and fully participated in the January 5th, 2017 White House meeting where the strategy was laid out for many of the activities listed above (#1). A VP who never expressed any difficulty with or resigned when he learned of the activities listed in #2 or #3. Get ready for more authoritarianism from Joe Biden. One could say Big Tech has already gotten started on Biden’s behalf, and I don’t hear him complaining about it.
So you picked somebody who was unwilling to accept the verdict of the voters, attempted a coup, and is willing to let his minions censor opposition news. You made a terrible decision. You are responsible for the destruction of representative democracy in this country.
30,000 troops in the capital, fascist collusion between Big Government and Big Business to silence and persecute dissent…..checks out.
Had I not witnessed it here, I would accuse you of ripping off some 2nd rate soap opera.
Yet, there it is an all its truth.
I don’t really care about the filibuster, especially if the 17th Amendment is repealed.
Gary’s TDS has destroyed his power to reason.
In the clearing stands a boxer, and a fighter by his trade.
Trump has still been only impeached once, right?
@spin.
If he wanted to be a dictator, the pandemic certainly gave him the chance. Instead of demanding lockdowns and mask mandates be ended, he let the states decide for themselves how to handle things – and the economy that was beginning to grow beforehand has tanked as a result. Instead of sending in troops to deal with all the riots, he let the states decide whether or not they would ask for help – and businesses have been destroyed and people have died because of it. Now one can argue whether or not those were the best decisions to make; I kind of wonder about that myself. But what one can’t do is accuse Trump of being an authoritarian. I have no idea where that idea came from.
Jonah assured us that even though his prediction that Trump would be an authoritarian didn’t happen, Trump would truly be one in a second term since he wouldn’t have to worry about reelection. Trust Jonah. That’s why it was better to vote for the corrupt, senile, Chinese agent.
Having listed (comment #221) several examples of authoritarian actions perpetrated by a recent president (Obama), I’ve been eagerly waiting for a response with a list (not links to leftist articles, make your own arguments) of specific authoritarian actions (not words, actions) perpetrated by Trump over these last four years that equal or in any way come close to Obama’s tyrannical deeds. This is not whataboutism. Obama is the definition of a tyrannical, authoritarian president who engaged in (and is currently engaging in) mafia-style, Chicago machine (but I repeat myself) politics. Any accusation of authoritarianism must be compared to the exemplar. Guess I’ll be waiting for those well-reasoned, specific arguments and response for a while, though, apparently there’s a new post up about some tiny fringe group called Q’Anon that demands more attention than they’re worth.
@arizonapatriot – Has there been a final result posted on the for or against impeachment questions or did I miss it?
I think we need more troops in DC. There are still some visible bits of pavement in the satellite photos.
200 rioters defeated 2000 Capitol police like the Congressional leadership wanted, so the troops will have to put on a really spectacular show of failing to defeat whatever they have in store for the inauguration.
They can’t get anyone else to go, so military rent-a-crowd it is.
That’s the best theory I’ve heard yet.
Twitter says that Pelosi and Schumer put pressure on the DOD to vet the soldiers and keep Trump supporters relegated to the outer edges.
In other news, when the Soviet Union sent in the military to stop the social justice protest rallies at Novocherkassk in 1962 (the workers had broken into their factory, and then had gone home peacefully after extracting some promises) it first had to push aside a general who didn’t want to fire on his own country’s people. It was a career-ending move for that general. The Soviets then went to the hospitals and dragged out those who had been wounded in the massacre and disposed of them quietly. Afterwards there was a trial and several of the ringleaders among the workers were executed.
The Soviets initiated all of this with some reluctance. I don’t know that Pelosi and Schumer would show the same reluctance.
The Soviets tried to hush up the whole affair; that was part of the reason for disposing of the killed and wounded. But news leaked out to the west that something had happened, even if details were scarce.
I don’t know that Pelosi and Schumer would have any sense of shame about doing something like that. They’d probably use it as justification to do more.
BTW, the Soviets placed just as high a value on property rights as do our own socialists. If it’s government property, that is. If your property is a small franchise business or inner city home, then not so much.
I heard Larry Arne of Hillsdale College talking about this. It’s obviously set up that they should only use it when there is widespread bipartisan support. You state the reasons clearly.
Bill Clinton should not have been impeached because even though lying under oath is terrible as the head of the justice system and a bar card holder, the public didn’t care because of why he did it.
We are ruled by people that don’t care about civics.
You mean the American people?
The people didn’t care because the media told them not to care. Back then it was still entirely plausible that the American people would have been convinced that lying under oath and all his other crimes were very important. Today we realize that the left is not rational and pays no attention to morality, ethics, or responsibility for its politicians, but that phenomenon was not yet recognized. It was certainly important to impeach Clinton. It was shameful that he wasn’t convicted. Today we see clearly why.
That’s a very good point. Well done.
I get ridiculed for this all the time, but so many things come down to that Judge Lerned Hand quote about the Constitution. You just can’t have a public that is so ignorant and dismissive about these types of things. It’s not going to work.