Your Opinion on Impeachment

 

I’d like to gauge the extent of support for, or opposition to, impeachment among the Ricochetti.  Here’s what I ask you to do: I’m going to set forth two questions, and if you’re interested in participating, I ask that you answer them in the comments.  This will work better if you refrain from commenting or arguing, and simply state your answers.

The two questions are:

  1. At this moment, do you support or oppose the impeachment and conviction of President Trump?  I recommend that you answer either “support impeachment and conviction,” “oppose impeachment and conviction,” or “undecided.”
  2. Have you changed your mind on the question of impeachment and removal?  I recommend that you answer either “I have changed my mind as events unfolded” or “I have not changed my mind as events unfolded.”  The purpose of this question is to gauge whether additional consideration, during the past 8 days or so, has altered any initial opinion that you may have formed.

I should add that, by answering question 1, I do not think that you should be bound to that answer in the future.  You may learn additional facts, or you may be persuaded by additional arguments, in either direction.

Prior to this recommended poll, I have two data points about the level of support for impeachment and conviction among folks on the political right:

  • Among the Ricochetti, the data suggest that we are close to 50-50.  Jon Gabriel posted (here) on January 6, stating that the President should be impeached, convicted, and removed, and that post currently has 47 likes.  I posted (here) on January 8, strongly criticizing the call for impeachment, and that post currently has 50 likes.
  • Among Republican Congressmen, 200 opposed impeachment, 10 voted for impeachment (with 1 absent and not yet determined).

My answers:  I oppose impeachment and conviction.  I have not changed my mind as events unfolded.

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  1. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Sisyphus (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    No one has ever shown Trump to be authoritarian.

    It’s certainly telling that the ones who called Trump an authoritarian dictator for the last four years have decided to take on the characteristic they falsely ascribed to him.

    I think we need more troops in DC. There are still some visible bits of pavement in the satellite photos.

    Speaking of authoritarianism:

     

    • #241
  2. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    Judge Lerned Learned Hand quote about the Constitution

    This one?  

    “In the end it is worse to suppress dissent than to run the risk of heresy.”  

    Or this one?

    “Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no  law can save it.”

    Or maybe this one?

    “If we are to keep democracy, there must be a commandment:  Thou shalt not ration justice.”

    Perhaps this one?

    “Counting heads is not an ideal way to govern, at least it is better than breaking them.”

    • #242
  3. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Skyler (View Comment):
    “Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law can save it.”

    This one. I’d love to see somebody explain why it’s wrong. 

    • #243
  4. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones
    • What do we mean when we say that first of all we seek liberty? I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it… What is this liberty that must lie in the hearts of men and women? It is not the ruthless, the unbridled will; it is not the freedom to do as one likes. That is the denial of liberty and leads straight to its overthrow. A society in which men recognize no check on their freedom soon becomes a society where freedom is the possession of only a savage few — as we have learned to our sorrow.
      What then is the spirit of liberty? I cannot define it; I can only tell you my own faith. The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right; the spirit of liberty is the spirit which seeks to understand the minds of other men and women; the spirit of liberty is the spirit which weighs their interests alongside its own without bias; the spirit of liberty remembers that not even a sparrow falls to earth unheeded; the spirit of liberty is the spirit of Him who, near two thousand years ago, taught mankind that lesson it has never learned, but has never quite forgotten; that there may be a kingdom where the least shall be heard and considered side by side with the greatest.
      • “The Spirit of Liberty” – speech at “I Am an American Day” ceremony, Central Park, New York City (21 May 1944).
    • #244
  5. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    Twitter says that Pelosi and Schumer put pressure on the DOD to vet the soldiers and keep Trump supporters relegated to the outer edges. 

    With the exception of the Military and maybe some law enforcement, government is basically a Democrat endeavor, for Democrats by Democrats.  This is just the Democrats starting the purge of non Democrats from the military.   To be honest, at this point, if I was conservative I would get our of the military as fast as possible.  Very little chance of career advancement and very high chance of being put in the line of harm for no reason.  Democrats always protect their own.  

    • #245
  6. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

    • #246
  7. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it…

    This is the key part. 

    Basically, everybody is pro centralization, pro pushing everybody else around with government, pro stealing from each other. etc. You are stupid not to get in on the action. 

    • #247
  8. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

     

    In any military coup, you need soldiers who are loyal to your side. 

     

     

    • #248
  9. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

     

    • #249
  10. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

     

     

     

    This guy is about as low in the slimebucket as anyone in Congress, and that’s saying something.

    • #250
  11. MARTIN WORNATH Coolidge
    MARTIN WORNATH
    @ManOfTheWest

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    No one has ever shown Trump to be authoritarian.

    If he wanted to be a dictator, the pandemic certainly gave him the chance. Instead of demanding lockdowns and mask mandates be ended, he let the states decide for themselves how to handle things – and the economy that was beginning to grow beforehand has tanked as a result. Instead of sending in troops to deal with all the riots, he let the states decide whether or not they would ask for help – and businesses have been destroyed and people have died because of it. Now one can argue whether or not those were the best decisions to make; I kind of wonder about that myself. But what one can’t do is accuse Trump of being an authoritarian. I have no idea where that idea came from.

    Those are excellent points.  If anything, one could argue that Trump as been too unwilling to exercise his power.  Ann Coulter certainly thought that when it came to the immigration issue, and she became a rabid Anti-Trumper as a result.

    • #251
  12. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Did we ever get a final count on the purpose of the thread?  Jerry was doing some interim ones.

    • #252
  13. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Did we ever get a final count on the purpose of the thread? Jerry was doing some interim ones.

    We do need a final count.  What happen to Jerry?

    • #253
  14. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Manny (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Did we ever get a final count on the purpose of the thread? Jerry was doing some interim ones.

    We do need a final count. What happen to Jerry?

    Offput by posts not involving his question?

    • #254
  15. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Final results through comment #254.  I’m going to count this one closed at this point.

    86% oppose impeachment/removal (102 of 119)

    10% support impeachment/removal (12 of 119)

    4% other response (5 of 119) — such as undecided, or support impeachment but not removal

    Very few reported having changed their mind.  5 changed from support to oppose.  1 changed from oppose to support.  I did not count any reporting a change to or from undecided.

    • #255
  16. carcat74 Member
    carcat74
    @carcat74

    Hugh (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    1.) Oppose.

    2.) No.

    I’m lazy, okay?

    What he said

    Mega dittoes!!!!

    • #256
  17. carcat74 Member
    carcat74
    @carcat74

    I do not support this travesty, and I haven’t changed my mind. My position is hard as a diamond. 

    • #257
  18. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    carcat74 (View Comment):

    Hugh (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    1.) Oppose.

    2.) No.

    I’m lazy, okay?

    What he said

    Mega dittoes!!!!

    Shouldn’t that be maga dittoes?

    • #258
  19. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    carcat74 (View Comment):

    Hugh (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    1.) Oppose.

    2.) No.

    I’m lazy, okay?

    What he said

    Mega dittoes!!!!

    Shouldn’t that be maga dittoes?

    Ditti?

    • #259
  20. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    carcat74 (View Comment):

    Hugh (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    1.) Oppose.

    2.) No.

    I’m lazy, okay?

    What he said

    Mega dittoes!!!!

    Shouldn’t that be maga dittoes?

    Ditti?

    I think those are like songs.

    • #260
  21. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Final results through comment #254. I’m going to count this one closed at this point.

    86% oppose impeachment/removal (102 of 119)

    10% support impeachment/removal (12 of 119)

    4% other response (5 of 119) — such as undecided, or support impeachment but not removal

    Very few reported having changed their mind. 5 changed from support to oppose. 1 changed from oppose to support. I did not count any reporting a change to or from undecided.

    Kind of disappointed that the “likes” on Jon Gabriel’s semi-infamous post in the afternoon of 1/6 didn’t compare to the “support impeachment” here.

    • #261
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