Vaccine Passports: A Terrible Idea

 

You would think by now that most countries would be trying to reduce the suffering and fear of their citizens regarding COVID-19. Instead, they are upping the ante, trying to make sure that future travelers will be subject to a new demand: proof that you’ve been vaccinated for the virus.

The idea of a “vaccine passport” is repugnant on so many levels: (1) people will not only have to take the vaccine at the demand of governments and airlines, but they will also have to show proof of vaccination; (2) bars, restaurants, and entertainment facilities could require proof for admittance to their facilities; (3) people will be divided into “insiders” and “outsiders”—those who have had the vaccine and those who have not; (4) and questions about whether current requirements must be continued, such as masks and social distancing and for how long will be debated, even after the vaccine has been distributed. Never mind the incursion on privacy.

Why should people have to have more government mandates forced on them? What will be the burden of documentation and the mismanagement of the information for travelers? We won’t know for a while about the effectiveness of the vaccine over time, and how long a person will be protected. We are learning more about the virus every day, but there are still many unanswered questions.

Everyone has to come to a realization that the virus cannot be controlled and we have to do our best to manage it.

Demands that violate our personal freedom and privacy are not the answer.

Published in Healthcare
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There are 42 comments.

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  1. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    I don’t see the difference. You could not travel to many locations without the proper vaccinations. I can’t work without proving my vaccination or immunity to measles, mumps, hepatitis. I need a neg HIV test. I must get a flu vaccine. Kids can’t go to school without having proper immunizations. Why is this so different?

     

    The difference is that most places we travel to don’t require vaccination documentation. And you need to provide proof because you are in the medical profession; you most likely knew going in that would be a requirement because you work with patients. I’ve never heard that others outside of medicine have to show proof of vaccination; I never did when I was in the working world.

    You left off children. And pretty sure teachers need to have similar proof of vaccination status.

    Why is it Ok for some but not for the rest?

     

    Because I no longer trust the government.  I don’t believe it is working to serve the interest of the people.  I don’t believe it is operating under the concept of equal enforcement of the law.  I don’t believe that it is legitimately exercising its authority.  I think it has taken the excuse of a dangerous disease to fundamentally alter the compact between the citizen and the state and used it to transform us into subjects of a ruling class that is venal, capricious, avericious, and silly.  I am also not even sure that it is legitimately constituted anymore.  That is why.  This doesn’t mean I won’t wind up getting vaccinated; however, since I no longer trust the state or the media, I am going to have to do a whole lot more research for myself to make sure I properly understand the risks and benefits of the vaccine.  

    • #31
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    Because I no longer trust the government. I don’t believe it is working to serve the interest of the people. I don’t believe it is operating under the concept of equal enforcement of the law. I don’t believe that it is legitimately exercising its authority. I think it has taken the excuse of a dangerous disease to fundamentally alter the compact between the citizen and the state and used it to transform us into subjects of a ruling class that is venal, capricious, avericious, and silly. I am also not even sure that it is legitimately constituted anymore. That is why. This doesn’t mean I won’t wind up getting vaccinated; however, since I no longer trust the state or the media, I am going to have to do a whole lot more research for myself to make sure I properly understand the risks and benefits of the vaccine.

    I couldn’t have said it better, @raxxalan! Thanks.

    • #32
  3. David March Coolidge
    David March
    @ToryWarWriter

    The passport idea is just so rife with fraud and abuse.

    However by the time the government would have it ready for roll out, enough people will be immunized that it wont matter.

    Were likely only going to need 70 percent of people vaccinated for herd immunity.  So we wont have to force any vaccinations on people because the percentage of people who wont take it, will be no more than 5 percent.

    • #33
  4. KentForrester Inactive
    KentForrester
    @KentForrester

    I suspect that there will be a variety of places in the states, as well as in many  foreign countries (I will be taking a European trip this summer), that will ask for some kind of evidence, perhaps a certificate of some kind, that I’ve been vaccinated. That doesn’t bother me.

    That little certificate will also encourage more people to get immunized.  The more who are immunized, the faster we’ll get through this thing.

    So I would like a little certificate that says I have been immunized.

    • #34
  5. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    I want to get vaccinated as soon as possible.  But I am not likely to be able to before mid next year.  They prioritize medical professionals and nursing-home staff and residents, then maybe we old folks will qualify.  Unless the politicians come first.  Funny, I haven’t heard much about how high up on the list they will be.  They should be at the very bottom.

    • #35
  6. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Rodin (View Comment):

    As in Orwell’s 1984 there will be two groups of people: Party members and proles. You must be vaccinated to be a Party member. Winston Smith was a Party member, thus granted more “privileges” than the lowly proles. But Smith understood that even within the Party there were levels — the Party leaders who could be transgressive (flout Party rules) like O’Brien and the rest of the Party members who performed tasks in the governmental machinery that was Big Brother. Smith came to understand that only the lowly proles were free.

    I’ve never read 1984. I started it one time but never finished it. I’ve read Animal Farm and watched it play out in broad strokes at various times. Sounds like I might ought to read 1984 too.

    • #36
  7. John H. Member
    John H.
    @JohnH

    There is in the land an immaturity in the face of risk. In the matter of masks, for example, I sense an impatience that is supposed to be persuasive but just isn’t. Me, I think the need for masks is overblown…but I do not dismiss them as nonsense. They may help…some. How much, no one can say. To be however infuriated with them and therefore believe oneself liberated from them is wrong. It is as if a soldier in WWI said, “I’ve suffered enough – I’ve earned the right not to care about phosgene!”

    With regard to “vaccine certificates,” I wonder: don’t people other than me and military personnel go anywhere? Well, now I know that @kentforrester plans to! Though his itinerary may not include Brazil, Guyana, or Guinea-Bissau. Well, as much as I think Wu’Flu itself has been overblown, I do concede that it does exist, it can be bad, and – most of all – sovereign nations, the suavest as well as the silliest, are free to decide anything they please.

    • #37
  8. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    John H. (View Comment):
    Anyway, countries can insist. This is nothing new.

    Sure, countries can insist.  And I can say “Nope, not going there.  I’ll spend my money elsewhere.”

    • #38
  9. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Stad (View Comment):

    https://www.newsmax.com/us/contact-tracing-phil-murphy-new-jersey-governor/2020/12/07/id/1000469/

    He’s not happy his citizens subjects are not listening to him . . .

    The government exists to govern, and it’s going to govern ’til you can’t stand it.

    • #39
  10. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    KentForrester (View Comment):

    I suspect that there will be a variety of places in the states, as well as in many foreign countries (I will be taking a European trip this summer), that will ask for some kind of evidence, perhaps a certificate of some kind, that I’ve been vaccinated. That doesn’t bother me.

    That little certificate will also encourage more people to get immunized. The more who are immunized, the faster we’ll get through this thing.

    So I would like a little certificate that says I have been immunized.

    Papers, please.

    • #40
  11. Marjorie Reynolds Coolidge
    Marjorie Reynolds
    @MarjorieReynolds

    John H. (View Comment):

    Some countries still require yellow-fever vaccination. Which is recorded in a booklet, which may be demanded along with one’s passport for entry into a country.

    As it happens, this requirement is being relaxed, de jure or de facto, based on evidence that a single yellow-fever shot is good for lifetime immunity, not for just 10 years. The first shot I had in 1982; the last in 2003; Brazil did want to see my certificate in 2004 when I entered from Guyana, but Guinea-Bissau in 2018 didn’t ask at all when I entered from Portugal. Which is actually too relaxed: its officials should have at least looked to see if I’d ever had the shot at all. Anyway, countries can insist. This is nothing new.

    Yes I was going to post something similar to you. I didn’t object to the course of vaccines I had to get when I went to Tanzania and I still have the yellow book. For overseas travelling it seems reasonable enough to me to have a Covid vaccine too.

    • #41
  12. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    EODmom (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):
    Why is it Ok for some but not for the rest?

    Now that’s a good question. But no surprise. I don’t think we want to start listing all the stupid rules and regulations that are unfair and inconsistent. I do think it’s a good idea for kids to get vaccines and require it. I do think it’s a good idea for some adults to get vaccines, but most of those are not required, right? What are we arguing about?

    I’m arguing that there is tons of precedent with other diseases to either require vaccination or proof of immunity in all kinds of situations, both travel and employment, education, camps etc etc etc.

    The “other diseases” argument leaves out the dramatically higher risk from those diseases – to almost all who are exposed, particularly in some regions, and the significantly better implementation of the related vaccinations. This virus hasn’t even been isolated, does NOT affect all in the same way, has not been found to be stable, nor real boundaries determined; similar viruses have long been known to be often indifferent to vaccine; and, the vaccines being promoted have not had the kind of testing that other vaccines went through. It also leaves out the hundreds of millions of people who have NOT been ill from this virus, show no signs of ever becoming ill and have NOT died. Blunt instruments don’t often work well.

    Really do not post such ill informed rants- of course the virus has been isolated-otherwise there wouldn’t be any vaccines developed.

    • #42
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