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Vaccine Passports: A Terrible Idea
You would think by now that most countries would be trying to reduce the suffering and fear of their citizens regarding COVID-19. Instead, they are upping the ante, trying to make sure that future travelers will be subject to a new demand: proof that you’ve been vaccinated for the virus.
The idea of a “vaccine passport” is repugnant on so many levels: (1) people will not only have to take the vaccine at the demand of governments and airlines, but they will also have to show proof of vaccination; (2) bars, restaurants, and entertainment facilities could require proof for admittance to their facilities; (3) people will be divided into “insiders” and “outsiders”—those who have had the vaccine and those who have not; (4) and questions about whether current requirements must be continued, such as masks and social distancing and for how long will be debated, even after the vaccine has been distributed. Never mind the incursion on privacy.
Why should people have to have more government mandates forced on them? What will be the burden of documentation and the mismanagement of the information for travelers? We won’t know for a while about the effectiveness of the vaccine over time, and how long a person will be protected. We are learning more about the virus every day, but there are still many unanswered questions.
Everyone has to come to a realization that the virus cannot be controlled and we have to do our best to manage it.
Demands that violate our personal freedom and privacy are not the answer.
Published in Healthcare
As in Orwell’s 1984 there will be two groups of people: Party members and proles. You must be vaccinated to be a Party member. Winston Smith was a Party member, thus granted more “privileges” than the lowly proles. But Smith understood that even within the Party there were levels — the Party leaders who could be transgressive (flout Party rules) like O’Brien and the rest of the Party members who performed tasks in the governmental machinery that was Big Brother. Smith came to understand that only the lowly proles were free.
I thought of 1984 as I wrote the post. One way or another, in spite of touting a classless society, we are determined to create new divisions. It will not go well; I hope “vaccine passports” don’t get off the ground. They are discussing them in Europe, though–of course.
I just booked a flat in Edinburgh for the Tattoo in August. If Scotland – or United – require a vaccine I’ll cancel. We figure it’s even odds. The owner was so grateful we committed – repeat customer and other discounts and repeated thanks. I can’t believe we are alone in thinking the whole vaccine idea is a wrong ‘un. My brother in law really wants to go and we do too, but his Corp HQ is way over the edge in Safety – and might require him to have it. I’ll have to tell him that Pitt Med Center announced that it won’t require it of health professionals. Too uncertain and not enough data. Golly tamale it stinks.
This.
Some countries still require yellow-fever vaccination. Which is recorded in a booklet, which may be demanded along with one’s passport for entry into a country.
As it happens, this requirement is being relaxed, de jure or de facto, based on evidence that a single yellow-fever shot is good for lifetime immunity, not for just 10 years. The first shot I had in 1982; the last in 2003; Brazil did want to see my certificate in 2004 when I entered from Guyana, but Guinea-Bissau in 2018 didn’t ask at all when I entered from Portugal. Which is actually too relaxed: its officials should have at least looked to see if I’d ever had the shot at all. Anyway, countries can insist. This is nothing new.
They’re going to have to pass laws providing penaties for people who use fake vaccine passports, the same as they do for kids who try to buy booze or tobacco with fake IDs. Besides, you know there will be legal challenges. It will be interesting to see if the ACLU steps up to the plate . . .
The difference is that not every country requires a yellow-fever shot. Since COVID is worldwide, I suspect more people will be affected.
You mean the American Cancel Liberties Union?
The first thing I thought of was the mark of the Beast.
You really wanna immanentize the eschation?Because this is how you immanentize the eschation.
Are you trying to scare me, @percival, more than I already was??
What about the millions who contracted the ‘Vid and survived? Don’t they have a naturally developed immunity? Do they too require the vaccination? What if they had the ‘Vid but were never tested?
These are only a few of the “unknowns” @nohaaj, legitimate and important questions. I hope there are so many of them that they simply give up on the idea. Then again, some fool will decide in several months that we know enough to be stupid and move forward. The temptation to control others is too great.
I think you need a number 5:
5) An underground industry for counterfeiting “Vaccine Passports” will arise. When the government realizes this, the obvious solution will be found: tattoos.
I heard the other day that China wanted to print a QR code on peoples fingernails. That doesn’t make much sense, because fingernails grow out. Maybe they want to renew the code every 6 months or so.
What about making us all get an implant? I haven’t heard that one, but just watch . . .
What about making us all get an implant? I haven’t heard that one, but just watch . . .
I have no idea of this is true but a friend was trying to tell me that the vaccines will implant you with certain metals that will allow you to be tracked. Probably an overblown conspiracy theory but I don’t have the technical expertise to disprove it.
Apropos post Susan.
That one does sound like a conspiracy, @unsk, but nowadays, who knows??
These have been around for decades.
I still have mine from my military service.
That’s not the point, @kozak, and I think you know that. As I said earlier, the implications are going to have widespread impact, and in the current environment will be required beyond traveling.
I don’t see the difference. You could not travel to many locations without the proper vaccinations. I can’t work without proving my vaccination or immunity to measles, mumps, hepatitis. I need a neg HIV test. I must get a flu vaccine. Kids can’t go to school without having proper immunizations. Why is this so different?
The difference is that most places we travel to don’t require vaccination documentation. And you need to provide proof because you are in the medical profession; you most likely knew going in that would be a requirement because you work with patients. I’ve never heard that others outside of medicine have to show proof of vaccination; I never did when I was in the working world.
You left off children. And pretty sure teachers need to have similar proof of vaccination status.
Why is it Ok for some but not for the rest?
Now that’s a good question. But no surprise. I don’t think we want to start listing all the stupid rules and regulations that are unfair and inconsistent. I do think it’s a good idea for kids to get vaccines and require it. I do think it’s a good idea for some adults to get vaccines, but most of those are not required, right? What are we arguing about?
I’m arguing that there is tons of precedent with other diseases to either require vaccination or proof of immunity in all kinds of situations, both travel and employment, education, camps etc etc etc.
I spent 20 years in the military getting whatever shot it demanded so I would be “worldwide deployable.” I had no choice, and in some places in the world, I needed the protection.
Now, in addition to exporting the military to places where people carry scary diseases, the Democrats are bringing those diseases to us, thanks to open borders and they want to mandate the covid vaccine to slow the spread of a disease. They make my head spin.
The “other diseases” argument leaves out the dramatically higher risk from those diseases – to almost all who are exposed, particularly in some regions, and the significantly better implementation of the related vaccinations. This virus hasn’t even been isolated, does NOT affect all in the same way, has not been found to be stable, nor real boundaries determined; similar viruses have long been known to be often indifferent to vaccine; and, the vaccines being promoted have not had the kind of testing that other vaccines went through. It also leaves out the hundreds of millions of people who have NOT been ill from this virus, show no signs of ever becoming ill and have NOT died. Blunt instruments don’t often work well.
Actually, mandatory cell phone tracing seems most likely. Oh, and the government will mandate you buy a cell phone if you don’t have one:
https://www.newsmax.com/us/contact-tracing-phil-murphy-new-jersey-governor/2020/12/07/id/1000469/
He’s not happy his
citizenssubjects are not listening to him . . .My daughter had a severe reaction to an MMR vaccine when she 18 or 24 months old, I’ve forgotten which. She got a golf ball-size swelling on her arm. It was one of the three reactions pediatricians look for that are serious–the other two are inconsolable crying and a fever spike, and I would add chronic nonspecific diarrhea to that list.
My daughter needed proof of having had the MMR booster when she went off to college, but her pediatrician did not want her to have the booster. So she had an antibody test run, and the test showed that my daughter had sufficient antibodies to not need the booster. My pediatrician told me to staple the certificate from the lab that she had signed to my daughter’s birth certificate (she needed it again for graduate school), which I did. People have accepted it.
All we need is to have established or recognized an effective level of antibodies, and I’m sure that’s in the works. They will handle it the way they have for other vaccines.
My son went to Haiti as a freelance photographer for an organization. We wouldn’t believe the shots he had to have and documentation. The doctor who filled out the paperwork called him later that night and gave him more information about the immunization and travel requirements. It was a daunting list of requirements One interesting one was that the State Department made my son take out med flight insurance because none of the commercial carriers would allow him on their planes if he were to fall ill.
You are being rational, @marcin. We’ve seen too much irrational decision making over the past year for me to feel reassured. I certainly do hope you are right.
I’m actually quite sympathetic to people who are reluctant to get this or any other vaccine. I hope there are other ways around it such as the antibody tests.
I hope we soon can map an individual’s immune system the way we can map his or her DNA. I would be happier to see people get only the vaccines they need, as a way of minimizing the risks. And I hope we’ll learn about how infections spread with all of our studies of covid-19, and perhaps that will give us other tools than just vaccines.
And I am firmly in the camp of never forcing this or any other medical care on anyone or anyone’s children.
But I think vaccines are the only protection we have right now against some pretty horrible diseases, and I hope they aren’t causing some of the neurological problems attributed to them.
Allowing individuals to make their own risk assessments and do whatever they think is right for themselves and their families is paramount in any public health policy. That said, I would understand and support a passport requirement that people have evidence of either antibody or vaccine protection. This pandemic started up probably in October but definitely in November in China, and less than a year later, it was found in all countries in the world except 10 tiny islands in the South Pacific. It likes to travel by jet and with tourists and students. I think countries are wise, after all we have been through in the past 12 months, to require some proof that people aren’t carrying the virus.