Regarding Trump Hatred

 

I have been bewildered by the intense, beyond all reason, hatred of Donald J. Trump since he became a candidate for the POTUS. Therefore, I have finally come to the Ricochet community seeking your insights. I have no reason to suspect he is any more than a normal human being with strengths and weaknesses common to mankind. So, in all seriousness, please contribute your thoughts as to why his opponents are, I believe, quite literally insane, i.e., out of their minds, in regards to him.

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  1. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator?  We’ve been through this, too, I think.  God transcends time.  He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent.  He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself.  God did not grow and did not mature.  He didn’t spring from anything.  The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    • #91
  2. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Maybe I take the “hatred” mentioned in the title of the OP to be high hatred or something.  Whatever hatred is less than “high” hatred is just the reaction due to the CIA/ Operation Mockingbird-stimulated propaganda.  Much like the irrational and unprecedented terror of covid.

    • #92
  3. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):
    And I do think death threats represent hatred and irrationality. Or maybe moreso a psychopathic or psychotic mentality. But lunatic lone gunmen I can almost understand: they’re legitimately crazy. But I’m thinking about — and this may be exactly what’s represented here — hundreds or thousands of twenty-something white college educated, mostly female, shriekers, hurling mindless, insulting invective and threats a policemen, cafe diners, elderly men and women trying to cross the street and anybody trying to drive a car.

    Meanwhile, how many of these hundreds or thousands will be prosecuted, and hence show up on lists of those prosecuted?

    • #93
  4. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Here is the DFL [Minnesota’s Democratic Party] insurrection action plan.  It is 11 pages long, containing action bullet points, calendar time tables, and charts.  This is just the first half of the first page, more or less and introductory. (bolded italics mine)

    Confdential working draft – not for public

    MN Democracy Defense Plan

    Landscape Assessment & Context

    Theory of What Will Happen

    Role and Responsibility of Democracy Defense Organizations

    Phases

    Key Dates and Election Process

    Lanes of Work to Prepare

    Additional Resources and References

    Landscape Assessment & Context

    Minnesota has DFL control of all consttutonal offices (e.g. Governor, Secretary of State, Attorney General) and the Minnesota State House. The GOP controls the Minnesota State Senate. In this context and given our experience of the state’s August primary, we expect our elections to be administered without state-driven suppression. However, in Minnesota, elections are administered mainly at the County level. This means much of the process will be in the hands of local county officials (including security from County Sheriffs). Such officials may be unfriendly or open to coercion by right-wing violence. Even in friendly counties, local officials could be subject to similar coercion for non-local actors.

    • #94
  5. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    • #95
  6. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    Because, to borrow a line from the nice-looking-but-awful-story movie “Prometheus” (the “Alien” “prequel”) “it’s what they choose to believe.”

    • #96
  7. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    The universe can’t exist outside of time because it doesn’t. That’s not what it does.

    • #97
  8. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

     

    Once they’ve defined God as “that which created the universe” and defined the universe as “that which God created” there’s no shifting them.

     

    • #98
  9. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    And I do think death threats represent hatred and irrationality. Or maybe moreso a psychopathic or psychotic mentality. But lunatic lone gunmen I can almost understand: they’re legitimately crazy. But I’m thinking about — and this may be exactly what’s represented here — hundreds or thousands of twenty-something white college educated, mostly female, shriekers, hurling mindless, insulting invective and threats a policemen, cafe diners, elderly men and women trying to cross the street and anybody trying to drive a car.

    Meanwhile, how many of these hundreds or thousands will be prosecuted, and hence show up on lists of those prosecuted?

    Zero to five, inclusive.

    • #99
  10. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    Ah, you appeal to science.  Does our universe exist outside of time?  Or is time an integral part of it.

    • #100
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    Ah, you appeal to science. Does our universe exist outside of time? Or is time an integral part of it.

     

    • #101
  12. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    Ah, you appeal to science. Does our universe exist outside of time? Or is time an integral part of it.

     

    Where do you get these?

    • #102
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    Ah, you appeal to science. Does our universe exist outside of time? Or is time an integral part of it.

     

    Where do you get these?

    Well, I know the show very well, and I know what to search for on youtube.

    • #103
  14. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    If you don’t believe in the supernatural, or don’t believe that demons exist, then this would be taken metaphorically, or even should mean nothing to you. But if you accept the existence of the supernatural, then this is the shortest, cleanest, simplest, truest way of explaining the personal violent hatred that we are increasingly seeing.

    Young human males are programmed to be violent and aggressive by genetics. If that aggression is not channeled into positive ends, bad things happen. I’d prefer to think about the problem of male violence as a secretion of hormones that originates from our mammalian tendency to compete with others of our own species for dominance.

    But evolutionary psychology and Christianity always end up at the same place when it comes to human nature. Humans are theologically fallen/designed with some unpleasant tendencies from their evolution. We got to direct towards the good/socially constructive path or things get very bad very quickly.

    You’re ignoring our Creator.

    Yes, he is. But his doing so is not germane. 

    • #104
  15. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    Ah, you appeal to science. Does our universe exist outside of time? Or is time an integral part of it.

     

    Where do you get these?

    Here’s another favorite, I’ve used it in the past when someone completely missed the point of something…

     

    • #105
  16. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Once they’ve defined God as “that which created the universe” and defined the universe as “that which God created” there’s no shifting them.

    You appear to know little or nothing of what Christians and other theists actually say about these matters.

    The strategy is to learn about the universe from experience. We define the universe empirically. And if the empirical evidence suggests that all contingent beings require a cause, then so be it. Everything else is logic.

    Maybe the logic shows that those contingent beings can only be explained by an Uncaused Cause–a First Cause, a necessary being whose own existence is part of its own nature and which can therefore be the fundamental explanation for the existence of other beings.

    Such a being would properly be called G-d–a fact the demonstration of which would merely require one to consult the dictionary.

    But maybe the logic does not lead that way. One must look at the logic carefully. It’s not like Christians all agree on these arguments. Most of us never even manage to understand the basics of Aquinas’ versions.

    • #106
  17. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    In fact, to answer the question in the OP perhaps this partly explains it.  This is from the Democrat document I referred above and presumably this has been an ongoing strategy.

    Make the road as we walk: Our work must elevate and demonstrate the world we want to live in and our demands. We will beat hate with our joyful rebellion. In our relationships and our action we will show – not tell – what a new world can look like.

    In a new world where good means bad and lies mean truth, a “joyful” just may translate to a “hateful”.

    • #107
  18. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    If one wants to think about God, he must think of a being greater than which none can be conceived. That means among other things a being whose existence is not contingent. I have no idea whether such a being exists. 

    • #108
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    If you don’t believe in the supernatural, or don’t believe that demons exist, then this would be taken metaphorically, or even should mean nothing to you. But if you accept the existence of the supernatural, then this is the shortest, cleanest, simplest, truest way of explaining the personal violent hatred that we are increasingly seeing.

    Young human males are programmed to be violent and aggressive by genetics. If that aggression is not channeled into positive ends, bad things happen. I’d prefer to think about the problem of male violence as a secretion of hormones that originates from our mammalian tendency to compete with others of our own species for dominance.

    But evolutionary psychology and Christianity always end up at the same place when it comes to human nature. Humans are theologically fallen/designed with some unpleasant tendencies from their evolution. We got to direct towards the good/socially constructive path or things get very bad very quickly.

    You’re ignoring our Creator.

    Yes, he is. But his doing so is not germane.

    He’s coming to the same conclusion but ignoring the cause entirely.

    • #109
  20. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    Ah, you appeal to science. Does our universe exist outside of time? Or is time an integral part of it.

     

    Where do you get these?

    Here’s another favorite, I’ve used it in the past when someone completely missed the point of something…

     

    Yes.  Your point being?

    • #110
  21. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    The liberal/progressive response to Trump is because his election, and the support he gets, tells them something unpalatable about what America is and who Americans are as a people. iow it tells them something they don’t want to believe about themselves.

    I think that’s also why there’s such an appetite for blaming the Russians for Trump’s election. “It wasn’t really us, the Russians tricked us into voting for him.”

    This post is about the prevalence of irrational hatred.

    Added: I don’t recall any conservatives hating 0bama or Clinton like this. And even given Bush Derangement Syndrome, I don’t recall liberals hating Bush 43 or Bush 41 or even Reagan like this. What explains the irrational hatred and rage?

    On balance I agree. The left would speak of Bushitler and call Cheney a war criminal but this was more a matter of contempt than rage. 

    I suspect the irrational hatred/rage is the same contempt but driven to a fever pitch and that it has less to do with Trump than it does with the left’s having lost the ability to not take disagreement personally. They hate him because he is wrong, the world is wrong, their neighbors have betrayed them by voting for someone that was obviously wrong. When your only tool is immanentizing the eschaton, every dissenter is the Anti-Christ – even if you don’t believe in Christ. 

    • #111
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    Ah, you appeal to science. Does our universe exist outside of time? Or is time an integral part of it.

     

    Where do you get these?

    Here’s another favorite, I’ve used it in the past when someone completely missed the point of something…

     

    Yes. Your point being?

    Sorry it wasn’t about anyone missing a point here.  Just that I also know that show very well, and knew what to search for.  It’s fortunate that it was available as just that short clip, more often something I can use ends up being partway through a longer scene.

    • #112
  23. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Django (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    If one wants to think about God, he must think of a being greater than which none can be conceived. That means among other things a being whose existence is not contingent. I have no idea whether such a being exists.

    Well, firstly it might well be the living God.  But an inanimate universe birthing out our universe leaves out the question or life, and of right and wrong.  This would require a sentient universe, and that’s getting pretty close to a finite version of the infinite God.

    • #113
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Definitely a Creator. That’s why there’s Creation.

    Oh. Good point.

    If everything needs a creator, who made G-d.

    Who said everything need a creator? We’ve been through this, too, I think. God transcends time. He is self-existent — the only thing or being that is self-existent. He doesn’t have a start date, and this is true because he invented (or more rightly, created) time itself. God did not grow and did not mature. He didn’t spring from anything. The universe, that is all that is, that isn’t God himself, sprang from him, at His command.

    Then why can’t the universe or a universe that created our universe exist outside of time? Why does it have to be G-d?

    If one wants to think about God, he must think of a being greater than which none can be conceived. That means among other things a being whose existence is not contingent. I have no idea whether such a being exists.

    Well, firstly it might well be the living God. But an inanimate universe birthing out our universe leaves out the question or life, and of right and wrong. This would require a sentient universe, and that’s getting pretty close to a finite version of the infinite God.

    Unless there is no right and wrong, except for what we come up with ourselves.

    • #114
  25. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    David Foster (View Comment):

    Lots of good & insightful thoughts here…one more I would like to add: a phenomenon I find in some Trump-haters is a high level of *knowingness*…which is not to be confused with *knowledge*. The concept was defined by the late Michael Kelly, and his writing on the topic was excerpted and explained in an old blog post at Lead and Gold. It is really worth reading.

    I’d be interested in any other thoughts on Knowingness and how it might relate to Trump-hatred.

    Interesting take. Is “knowingness” his own term?

    I think it kind of goes hand-in-hand with the age of irony. One isn’t allowed to enjoy anything on its own merit, particularly not any sort of traditional virtues. All must be placed at a sort of ironic distance. The idea that you can love a thing for itself or express genuine feeling for it exposes you to have the weakness of sentiment. Instead, one must only find ironic pleasure in it — keeping a distance because you’re just too cool to really like it.

    I dare say “patriotism” fell prey to that sort of ironic distancing.

    The term ‘stan’, a portmanteau of stalker and fan is a good example of ironic distancing. 

    • #115
  26. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    The liberal/progressive response to Trump is because his election, and the support he gets, tells them something unpalatable about what America is and who Americans are as a people. iow it tells them something they don’t want to believe about themselves.

    I think that’s also why there’s such an appetite for blaming the Russians for Trump’s election. “It wasn’t really us, the Russians tricked us into voting for him.”

    This post is about the prevalence of irrational hatred.

    Added: I don’t recall any conservatives hating 0bama or Clinton like this. And even given Bush Derangement Syndrome, I don’t recall liberals hating Bush 43 or Bush 41 or even Reagan like this. What explains the irrational hatred and rage?

    On balance I agree. The left would speak of Bushitler and call Cheney a war criminal but this was more a matter of contempt than rage.

    I suspect the irrational hatred/rage is the same contempt but driven to a fever pitch and that it has less to do with Trump than it does with the left’s having lost the ability to not take disagreement personally. They hate him because he is wrong, the world is wrong, their neighbors have betrayed them by voting for someone that was obviously wrong. When your only tool is immanentizing the eschaton, every dissenter is the Anti-Christ – even if you don’t believe in Christ.

    Yes, but who put in their heads that Trump is wrong?

    • #116
  27. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Yes. Your point being?

    Sorry it wasn’t about anyone missing a point here. Just that I also know that show very well, and knew what to search for. It’s fortunate that it was available as just that short clip, more often something I can use ends up being partway through a longer scene.

    I was quoting Homer Simpson.  It’s the only quote I know.

    • #117
  28. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    I believe that hatred grows out of egotistical envy.

    And whatever conservatives felt regarding 0bama, I don’t think it was hatred, and it certainly was nothing like what we see with Trump — it may arguably have been pretty nutty (which I would dispute) but it was not lying violent rage. For example, no conservatives tried to shoot up 0bama’s liberal political supporters.

    Liberals did fantasize about murdering Bush 43, but that was not as ubiquitous as what we see with Trump.

    And finally, I knew a guy who fairly despised Trump, but he did not engage in irrational hatred that I could see.

    No, I think this is orders of magnitude different.

    Okay, so apparently I was wrong about how beige the Bushes were.

    From Quartz criminal prosecutions for death threats against Presidents:

    And criminal prosecutions for threats against federal officials:

    From the same article:

    A data analysis performed for Quartz by Athena Chapekis and Lauren Donahoe of the Prosecution Project found that about 75% of those charged for making threats against US politicians come from the ideological right, based on cases going back to 1990. They are almost entirely US citizens, male, and roughly 85% white. About half of the defendants were under 30. The intended targets were primarily Democrats.

    So there’s that – though criminal prosecutions is a very rough proxy for actual threats. Also, the data ends in 2018 – so I can’t say for the past two years.

    And I do think death threats represent hatred and irrationality. Or maybe moreso a psychopathic or psychotic mentality. But lunatic lone gunmen I can almost understand: they’re legitimately crazy. But I’m thinking about — and this may be exactly what’s represented here — hundreds or thousands of twenty-something white college educated, mostly female, shriekers, hurling mindless, insulting invective and threats a policemen, cafe diners, elderly men and women trying to cross the street and anybody trying to drive a car.

    On the other hand, having just seen a leaked document meticulously outlining pre-election canvassing, and post-election insurrection, maybe they’re all just crazy like foxes. See this article for the document.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/29/exclusive-leaked-document-leftists-fear-trump-may-win-minnesota-plot-post-election-mass-mobilization/

    A man alone is subject to becoming crazy over time, whereas a man in a mob can pick up crazy for free. 

    • #118
  29. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Flicker (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    If you don’t believe in the supernatural, or don’t believe that demons exist, then this would be taken metaphorically, or even should mean nothing to you. But if you accept the existence of the supernatural, then this is the shortest, cleanest, simplest, truest way of explaining the personal violent hatred that we are increasingly seeing.

    Young human males are programmed to be violent and aggressive by genetics. If that aggression is not channeled into positive ends, bad things happen. I’d prefer to think about the problem of male violence as a secretion of hormones that originates from our mammalian tendency to compete with others of our own species for dominance.

    But evolutionary psychology and Christianity always end up at the same place when it comes to human nature. Humans are theologically fallen/designed with some unpleasant tendencies from their evolution. We got to direct towards the good/socially constructive path or things get very bad very quickly.

    You’re ignoring our Creator.

    Yes, he is. But his doing so is not germane.

    He’s coming to the same conclusion but ignoring the cause entirely.

    Aye, but the question at hand involves the proximate cause of trump hatred. And he agrees with you about it being a nastiness within human beings regardless of source, so you’re twinsies for our purposes here. 

    • #119
  30. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    I believe that hatred grows out of egotistical envy.

    And whatever conservatives felt regarding 0bama, I don’t think it was hatred, and it certainly was nothing like what we see with Trump — it may arguably have been pretty nutty (which I would dispute) but it was not lying violent rage. For example, no conservatives tried to shoot up 0bama’s liberal political supporters.

    Liberals did fantasize about murdering Bush 43, but that was not as ubiquitous as what we see with Trump.

    And finally, I knew a guy who fairly despised Trump, but he did not engage in irrational hatred that I could see.

    No, I think this is orders of magnitude different.

    Okay, so apparently I was wrong about how beige the Bushes were.

    From Quartz criminal prosecutions for death threats against Presidents:

    And criminal prosecutions for threats against federal officials:

    From the same article:

    A data analysis performed for Quartz by Athena Chapekis and Lauren Donahoe of the Prosecution Project found that about 75% of those charged for making threats against US politicians come from the ideological right, based on cases going back to 1990. They are almost entirely US citizens, male, and roughly 85% white. About half of the defendants were under 30. The intended targets were primarily Democrats.

    So there’s that – though criminal prosecutions is a very rough proxy for actual threats. Also, the data ends in 2018 – so I can’t say for the past two years.

    And I do think death threats represent hatred and irrationality. Or maybe moreso a psychopathic or psychotic mentality. But lunatic lone gunmen I can almost understand: they’re legitimately crazy. But I’m thinking about — and this may be exactly what’s represented here — hundreds or thousands of twenty-something white college educated, mostly female, shriekers, hurling mindless, insulting invective and threats a policemen, cafe diners, elderly men and women trying to cross the street and anybody trying to drive a car.

    On the other hand, having just seen a leaked document meticulously outlining pre-election canvassing, and post-election insurrection, maybe they’re all just crazy like foxes. See this article for the document.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/29/exclusive-leaked-document-leftists-fear-trump-may-win-minnesota-plot-post-election-mass-mobilization/

    A man alone is subject to becoming crazy over time, whereas a man in a mob can pick up crazy for free.

    Old Man #1: How did you get this much crazy?

    Old Man #2: I’m paying on time.

    Old Man #3: What do you mean?  There giving out on the corner!

    • #120
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