Contributor Post Created with Sketch. Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Is Fauci Pushing a Fraud?

 

“Doctor” Fauci, and I use that term loosely, is a serial fraudster. He is now a center-left establishment political hack wrapped in a lab coat. He must be confronted with his conspicuous silences, contrasted with his emphatic pronouncements. He owns the deaths of thousands, possibly tens of thousands by now. He owns permanent harm to millions of Americans already. So far, only Senator Rand Paul has called him and his Coronavirus cabal on a piece of their perfidy. . . not that I have any strong feelings on the matter.

Even Republican governors have collaborated in the latest chapter of the long scam. They were all silent on the danger of mass “protests.” Yet, they were all over churches and businesses. Their latest pronunciations entirely ignore or obscure the likely role of leftist mass gatherings in the name of “social justice.” Instead, these cowards point the finger at young adults freely associating in bars and on the water. Never mind that everybody knows the other health risks from the bar/party scene are significantly higher, but that never drove bar bans before.

The whole spin on young people is aimed at supporting BLM and the DNC by avoiding and obscuring the mass protest/riot events’ COVID-19 spike causality. Fraudster Fauci was silent, absolutely silent, when the massive riots started. He was as silent about that leftist project as he was about Gov. Killer Cuomo driving the deaths of thousands of vulnerable seniors with his criminally negligent order to nursing homes in March. Fauci is a serial fraudster at this point. He mouths only that which might help Joe Biden win, not objective “science,” let alone “public health.” Everybody knows.

Public health, as I have repeatedly laid out, is far broader than infectious diseases or epidemiology. Public health, by public health publications and official websites, includes prevention and early treatment of cancer, heart disease, and stroke, plus suicide, and overdose prevention. Fauci’s fatal formula for America ignored all those known medical, scientifically validated, quantifiable side-effects. My family doctor couldn’t scrape a small mole off my shoulder this morning without giving me the known side effects and getting my written acknowledgment and consent. Everybody knows what a real doctor must do before prescribing any course of treatment in America. Everybody knows.

Sen. Paul has informed the assembled dissemblers of the Coronavirus Task Force regarding the terrible harm to school children of denying them classroom instruction, plus the completely unsubstantiated U.S. “experts” claims being contradicted by all foreign country data. Once again, “Dr” Fauci is in the pocket of the left, here the teachers’ unions, who want to be paid but not to go back to the classroom. Everybody knows.

The BBC knows:

While governments are trying to encourage home schooling, it relies on a good computer and reliable internet connection to be able to access the school’s resources, and a quiet room to study. Home schooling also assumes that the parents themselves are sufficiently educated, and have enough time, to be able to help with the lessons. “This assumption unfortunately does not [always] hold, meaning many children’s academic development will grind to a halt during school closures, especially those from underprivileged backgrounds, further widening the attainment gap,” says Armitage. A recent study from the UK found that children from richer families are spending about 30% more time on home learning than those from poorer families.

Never mind Atlanta’s street violence, what about the violence to the poorest, least advantaged Atlanta children, overwhelmingly people of color? Do these black lives not matter to Dr. Fauci or Senate Republican leaders?

A study released by two organizations states about 21,000 less students in English language arts and about 29,000 fewer in math are on track for grade-level proficiency than prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, when schools shifted to online classes.
In a June 16 news release, redefinED Atlanta and Learn4Life announced the release of a new study, “Quantifying the Impact of School Closures on Metro Atlanta Student Proficiency.” The report covers eight school districts: Clayton, Cobb, DeKalb, Fulton and Gwinnett counties and the cities of Atlanta, Decatur and Marietta.

[. . .]

Achievement projections are more concerning for Black, Latinx and economically disadvantaged students in metro Atlanta. The study projects only three out of 10 historically underserved students will be on track to grade-level proficiency, which reverses recent gains.

The New York Times knows:

The New York Times reported an analysis from consulting group, McKinsey & Company showed that the average student could fall seven months behind in academics due to the coronavirus impact. Black and Hispanic students can experience even greater learning loss — equivalent to 10 months of learning loss for black children and nine months for Latino children, the study highlighted in the Times showed.

Even the Washington Post knows:

To the contrary, by failing to return children to school, we may actually be putting them at risk of other complications, many of them dire and long lasting. In a recent guidance document that reflects these concerns, the American Academy of Pediatrics “strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school.” In other words, it is time to get kids back into the classroom. Even as we proceed cautiously, we cannot reasonably ask children who are at the lowest risk of infection to sacrifice the most to protect the rest of us.

Senator (real Doctor) Rand Paul opened the door to what should be a massive campaign of truth bombs. Call the top cancer doctors. Call the top cardiologists. Call the top neurologists. Call the top behavioral health specialists to testify about suicide and overdoses. Give the American people the full truth and nothing but the truth. We can handle the truth. We deserve nothing less than the full story. Everybody knows.

Perhaps the best thing President Trump could do at this point is to issue an executive order binding all executive branch “scientists” and “doctors” to testify only according to peer-reviewed statistically significant evidence. No puffing up of personal resumes or mutual admiration credentialing. The experts have been so fallible as to have burned all credibility. Either they lay out peer-reviewed research with statistically significant findings or they simply say “Senator, we just do not know enough to offer you expert guidance at this point.” Make Fauci and Redford speak the truth that everybody knows.

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  1. RightAngles Member

    That little gremlin.

    • #1
    • June 30, 2020, at 9:35 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  2. RightAngles Member

    It’s like I saw on Twitter somewhere: If masks work, then open everything back up. If they don’t work, then what has all this been about?

    • #2
    • June 30, 2020, at 9:40 PM PDT
    • 21 likes
  3. TempTime Member

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    That little gremlin.

    So much worse than a gremlin. He is the type of man that leads me to pray nightly that justice finds him sooner than later.

    • #3
    • June 30, 2020, at 9:56 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  4. James Gawron Thatcher
    James Gawron Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Cliff,

    Fauci is play-acting that he has just been calling balls and strikes and he is being misquoted. I think that is a pathetic excuse. Rand Paul hauled a wheelbarrow full of evidence that it was safe to open schools and dumped it on Fauci’s desk. Notice the sly manipulative response. “I agree with you that we should do everything to get the kids back to school.” Obviously we should have been doing everything already. Fauci isn’t going to even argue with Rand Paul’s evidence. He will, however, surely find something every week to announce that sounds terribly negative even though he knows (or should know) that it isn’t the case.

    My post of Peter’s interview with Dr. Atlas was very revealing. Atlas went over everything we already know that the lockdown is damaging people through addiction, suicide, and delaying treatment of other ailments. He told us about something I hadn’t known before. Extreme cases of child abuse, where the child has been brought to the emergency room with multiple bone fractures and the parents are scared the kid may die, are way up. Atlas explained that these kinds of cases are usually caught by the child’s teacher before it gets to the stage that the child’s life is in danger. The best thing for the kids in so many ways is that they are back in school. Atlas stated the statistics that Rand Paul was quoting. The risks to the children are microscopic. Even the risks to teachers or other adults getting the virus are also microscopic.

    Don’t kid yourself. Fauci committed to nothing he just finessed Rand Paul’s whole attack with his cheap artful dodge. The S.O.B. needs to be fired. If not you will need a crowbar to get a commitment out of the little “deleted”.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #4
    • June 30, 2020, at 11:47 PM PDT
    • 17 likes
  5. Goldgeller Member

    I was extremely Fauci sympathetic for a while.

    With respect to the protests: I’m not that bothered by Fauci’s behavior. He mainly speaks when he is asked to speak. When he was asked about the protests his answer was basically consistent with his prior statements. To be sure, many other public health officials did embarrass themselves by saying that police violence was worse than the virus.

    My issue with Fauci is that he “admitted” he lied about masks to preserve availability for doctors and first responders. Lying is wrong, admitting that you lied and expecting to praised for it is galaxy brain. The press letting Fauci and the public health establishment get away with it is actually infuriating since masks are a fairly effective treatment in preventing the spread of many respiratory illnesses (everyone in China/Japan/SK is deluded?).

    To me, the “don’t wear a mask” guidance is one of the most important governmental failures I can think of in recent memories that isn’t related to war or slavery. Was the entire public health establishment in on it? How did experts miss this? For the very online types, we know rando-epidemiologists were always good at doing 20 tweet threads whenever someone said something about the virus, but everyone just nodded about the “don’t wear masks” guidance? And then they all just nodded when the government said “just make a mask out of a t-shirt and wear it when you go out.” What changed? 

    It’s quite amazing.

     

     

    • #5
    • July 1, 2020, at 4:46 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  6. JoelB Member

    President Trump’s great error was in presenting Fauci and the task force as the brilliant experts to be heeded. He has shown a pattern of puffing the unworthy and then having to back-pedal when they failed to deliver. I wish he were better able to discern the team players from the traitors at the outset, but it must not be easy.

    • #6
    • July 1, 2020, at 5:19 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  7. JoelB Member

    Goldgeller (View Comment):

     

    My issue with Fauci is that he “admitted” he lied about masks to preserve availability for doctors and first responders. Lying is wrong, admitting that you lied and expecting to praised for it is galaxy brain. The press letting Fauci and the public health establishment get away with it is actually infuriating since masks are a fairly effective treatment in preventing the spread of many respiratory illnesses (everyone in China/Japan/SK is deluded?).

    To me, the “don’t wear a mask” guidance is one of the most important governmental failures I can think of in recent memories that isn’t related to war or slavery. Was the entire public health establishment in on it? How did experts miss this? For the very online types, we know rando-epidemiologists were always good at doing 20 tweet threads whenever someone said something about the virus, but everyone just nodded about the “don’t wear masks” guidance? And then they all just nodded when the government said “just make a mask out of a t-shirt and wear it when you go out.” What changed?

    It’s quite amazing.

    We have been lied to so much, I believe nothing I hear anymore. Yes, I believe masks have some effect, but are they needed now? Depends on today’s talking points.

     

     

    • #7
    • July 1, 2020, at 5:24 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  8. Full Size Tabby Member

    I’m inclined not to come down too hard on Dr. Fauci personally. Rather the problem is the system in which he operates, both politically and bureaucratically, that treated (and continues to treat) a new virus as the exclusive focus, pushing all other aspects of public health to the status of “mere inconvenience.” It is the tendency of political and bureaucratic systems to focus on one thing to the exclusion of all else. 

    Just a few minutes ago I learned that the grandmother of a member of our church decided that the isolation she was experiencing in her no-visitors-allowed retirement home was not really living, and stopped eating, starving herself to death. 

    Survey samples suggest that efforts to mediate the effects of the virus may be driving a substantial portion of the population into near or actual clinical depression (perhaps as much as a quarter of the population). We of course know that people are not getting the medical care (including vaccines and other preventative treatments) they should be getting, which will cause illness and death in the future. The OP points to the crippling of childhood development, some of which will last a lifetime. 

    Hundreds of thousands of deaths due to the virus is a tragedy. But so is crippling damage to tens of millions of lives. That the “public health” system refuses even to contemplate such crippling damage is the real fraud. 

    • #8
    • July 1, 2020, at 6:31 AM PDT
    • 16 likes
  9. Rodin Member

    What Fauci does when the cameras are off.

    • #9
    • July 1, 2020, at 6:46 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  10. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member

    Rand Paul, M.D. actually practices medicine. He saw patients after he recovered from this coronavirus; he usually spends his summer vacation performing eye surgery gratis. Fauci did his residency in internal medicine in 1966-67 and joined the NIH in 1968. He couldn’t diagnose himself with a copy of the Merck Manual sitting open turned to the correct page.

    • #10
    • July 1, 2020, at 6:49 AM PDT
    • 9 likes
  11. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    Just a few minutes ago I learned that the grandmother of a member of our church decided that the isolation she was experiencing in her no-visitors-allowed retirement home was not really living, and stopped eating, starving herself to death. 

    This is awful. But the buck has to stop somewhere and saying it is a bureaucratic issue obscures the problem.

    • #11
    • July 1, 2020, at 6:53 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  12. Stina Member

    Nice misspeak, senator:

    “One group of small men and women” vs “One small group of men and women.”

    • #12
    • July 1, 2020, at 7:37 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  13. SkipSul Coolidge
    SkipSul Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I don’t know if I’d call Fauci a fraud per se, so much as the sort of person who sees the storm clouds around every silver lining, and who envisions the worst case scenario at every turn. In short, he’s much more like a European bureaucrat, trapped in the “precautionary principle” mentality, where one has to prove the absence of any possible harms at any turn, actual harms be damned. So Fauci obsesses about possible infection rates, and latches onto doomsday, and will not be swayed. He’s rather like Paul Krugman, constantly prognosticating the end of the world, and correctly predicting 100 out of the last 1 recessions.

    • #13
    • July 1, 2020, at 8:32 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  14. SkipSul Coolidge
    SkipSul Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Clifford A. Brown: Perhaps the best thing President Trump could do at this point is to issue an executive order binding all executive branch “scientists” and “doctors” to testify only according to peer reviewed statistically significant evidence. No puffing up of personal resumes or mutual admiration credentialing. The experts have been so fallible as to have burned all credibility. Either they lay out peer reviewed research with statistically significant findings or they simply say “Senator, we just do not know enough to offer you expert guidance at this point.” Make Fauci and Redford speak the truth that everybody knows.

    I think the various state governors ought to cease with the daily press briefings on COVID entirely. Dewine here in Ohio has been doing these every damned day at 2 since March. At first it was terrifying, then it was irritating, now it’s just fodder for the press to yammer about endlessly while other people tune it out.

    I would suggest at the national level that Trump restrict utterances even beyond what you have laid out here, limiting updates even beyond peer-reviewed material, to material that has been out long enough that contradicting studies have been vetted and reviewed as well, while telling the press, the Senate, and the House that briefings will be given no more than once per month.

    • #14
    • July 1, 2020, at 8:40 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  15. Weeping Member

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    Just a few minutes ago I learned that the grandmother of a member of our church decided that the isolation she was experiencing in her no-visitors-allowed retirement home was not really living, and stopped eating, starving herself to death. 

    How sad! I suspect there are many who feel the same way she did – especially among those who were used to seeing their family regularly. :(

    • #15
    • July 1, 2020, at 9:08 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  16. Weeping Member

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    I think the various state governors ought to cease with the daily press briefings on COVID entirely. Dewine here in Ohio has been doing these every damned day at 2 since March. At first it was terrifying, then it was irritating, now it’s just fodder for the press to yammer about endlessly while other people tune it out.

    I would suggest at the national level that Trump restrict utterances even beyond what you have laid out here, limiting updates even beyond peer-reviewed material, to material that has been out long enough that contradicting studies have been vetted and reviewed as well, while telling the press, the Senate, and the House that briefings will be given no more than once per month.

    I firmly believe that if the media would just stop talking about it and the governors/mayors/etc. would just open everything back up, things would work their way back to normal in a few months.

    • #16
    • July 1, 2020, at 9:15 AM PDT
    • 9 likes
  17. Unsk Member

    Great Post Clifford. Also nice Leonard Cohen song. 

    The litany of crimes Dr. Fauci has committed is a very long one. To note just a few:

    He could have investigated the positive effects that HCQ had on SARS like diseases over 15 years ago after studies then showed such effects as he should have as head of NIAID but somehow didn’t, and still hasn’t allowed a legitimate study of HCQ used with Zinc after many months of great success of it’s use in places like South Korea. 

    But he made sure he helped fund as late as 2017 the illegal and incredibly diabolical gain of function coronavirus research at the ChiCom Military Biological Weapons Lab in Wuhan that surely created the original COVID-19 virus and likely created the even more deadly Strike D614G COVID strain that has killed over 100,000 Americans. 

    He as one of the Head Honchos of the FDA/NIH/CDC cabal who helped create our incredibly corrupt Drug Approval system that demands Billions in fees that could only be paid by Big Pharma effectively creating a cartel that only approves in the end Big Pharma drugs. World beating miraculous drugs created by the little guys need not apply, only those created by the Big Pharma club will get approved.

     Clifford: Public health, as I have repeatedly laid out, is far broader than infectious diseases or epidemiology. Public health, by public health publications and official websites, includes prevention and early treatment of cancer, heart disease, and stroke, plus suicide and overdose prevention. Fauci’s fatal formula for America ignored all those known medical, scientifically validated, quantifiable side-effects. Absolutely. Right on the Money

    But worst of all, Fauci is part of the coordinated attack on America by the Commie Progressive DeepState to bring down the middle and working classes with their lockdown shenanigans and throw the middle and working classes into a desperate, gut wrenching, dire poverty where they will fearfully be looking of someone or something to save them with the Commie Progressive waiting in the wings with their “we will pay your bills” panacea to trick millions into voting for this coming totalitarian dictatorship that will give total control to this Commie/Progressive Deep State Leviathan. 

     

    • #17
    • July 1, 2020, at 9:56 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  18. Goldgeller Member

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    I’m inclined not to come down too hard on Dr. Fauci personally. Rather the problem is the system in which he operates, both politically and bureaucratically, that treated (and continues to treat) a new virus as the exclusive focus, pushing all other aspects of public health to the status of “mere inconvenience.” It is the tendency of political and bureaucratic systems to focus on one thing to the exclusion of all else.

    Just a few minutes ago I learned that the grandmother of a member of our church decided that the isolation she was experiencing in her no-visitors-allowed retirement home was not really living, and stopped eating, starving herself to death.

    Survey samples suggest that efforts to mediate the effects of the virus may be driving a substantial portion of the population into near or actual clinical depression (perhaps as much as a quarter of the population). We of course know that people are not getting the medical care (including vaccines and other preventative treatments) they should be getting, which will cause illness and death in the future. The OP points to the crippling of childhood development, some of which will last a lifetime.

    Hundreds of thousands of deaths due to the virus is a tragedy. But so is crippling damage to tens of millions of lives. That the “public health” system refuses even to contemplate such crippling damage is the real fraud.

    I’m sorry to hear about the church member. I think your post is close to where I am at. I know my dad had to wait to get a surgery done, and one other member of our church as well. Public health officials suddenly became rockstars and let some of the hype go to their head, especially since risk aversion seems to be the public health way. And that’s a problem.

    Public health officials did mess up. But there are a couple of things. Given our slow start on testing (I’m amazed the CDC basically got away with messing up the tests), options available to Germany and SK for track and trace were foreclosed to us. Given that initially we were told to not wear masks…. I think it was clear that they were always going to tell us to just stay inside. They will maximize their position. They aren’t economists and shouldn’t be doing economics. A lot of the blame comes down on mayors and governors who failed to assemble diverse teams and ask the right questions and pull the trigger on hard decisions. Fauci wasn’t an outlier in his guidance. You would have just gotten someone else to say stay inside. He didn’t make a governor sign any orders. 

    • #18
    • July 1, 2020, at 11:09 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  19. Housebroken Thatcher

    @cliffordbrown I could stand a bit of education: In the articles you quoted I see references to latinos, latinx and Hispanics. I’m thinking that these all refer to the same people that I used to know – and still refer to themselves – as “Mexican.” 

    But there has to be a difference, can you explain?

    • #19
    • July 1, 2020, at 12:14 PM PDT
    • Like
  20. Goldgeller Member

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    @cliffordbrown I could stand a bit of education: In the articles you quoted I see references to latinos, latinx and Hispanics. I’m thinking that these all refer to the same people that I used to know – and still refer to themselves – as “Mexican.”

    But there has to be a difference, can you explain?

    Hispanic is anyone who speaks Spanish. Latino is latin American origin + Spanish speaking. But some of my friends who study behavior note that the self-identification as latino is usually the result of experienced/perceived discrimination and the drive to develop a specific cultural/political identity beyond US census forms. I’m pretty darn sure latinx is just a made up thing by some woke people who want to erase gender and virtually no Hispanic person actually uses that.

    • #20
    • July 1, 2020, at 1:13 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  21. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    I don’t know if I’d call Fauci a fraud per se, so much as the sort of person who sees the storm clouds around every silver lining, and who envisions the worst case scenario at every turn. In short, he’s much more like a European bureaucrat, trapped in the “precautionary principle” mentality, where one has to prove the absence of any possible harms at any turn, actual harms be damned. So Fauci obsesses about possible infection rates, and latches onto doomsday, and will not be swayed. He’s rather like Paul Krugman, constantly prognosticating the end of the world, and correctly predicting 100 out of the last 1 recessions.

    Yes. And. 

    • #21
    • July 1, 2020, at 2:24 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  22. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):
    He couldn’t diagnose himself with a copy of the Merck Manual sitting open turned to the correct page.

    Well said.

    • #22
    • July 1, 2020, at 2:25 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  23. RightAngles Member

    Goldgeller (View Comment):

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    @cliffordbrown I could stand a bit of education: In the articles you quoted I see references to latinos, latinx and Hispanics. I’m thinking that these all refer to the same people that I used to know – and still refer to themselves – as “Mexican.”

    But there has to be a difference, can you explain?

    Hispanic is anyone who speaks Spanish. Latino is latin American origin + Spanish speaking. But some of my friends who study behavior note that the self-identification as latino is usually the result of experienced/perceived discrimination and the drive to develop a specific cultural/political identity beyond US census forms. I’m pretty darn sure latinx is just a made up thing by some woke people who want to erase gender and virtually no Hispanic person actually uses that.

    Also we have many immigrants from South and Central America including Guatemala and Honduras etc.

    • #23
    • July 1, 2020, at 2:58 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  24. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown

    See also John Hinderaker “Science and ‘Science’” on the fraud and the harm playing out in Minnesota.

    • #24
    • July 1, 2020, at 3:28 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  25. Housebroken Thatcher

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    Goldgeller (View Comment):

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    @cliffordbrown I could stand a bit of education: In the articles you quoted I see references to latinos, latinx and Hispanics. I’m thinking that these all refer to the same people that I used to know – and still refer to themselves – as “Mexican.”

    But there has to be a difference, can you explain?

    Hispanic is anyone who speaks Spanish. Latino is latin American origin + Spanish speaking. But some of my friends who study behavior note that the self-identification as latino is usually the result of experienced/perceived discrimination and the drive to develop a specific cultural/political identity beyond US census forms. I’m pretty darn sure latinx is just a made up thing by some woke people who want to erase gender and virtually no Hispanic person actually uses that.

    Also we have many immigrants from South and Central America including Guatemala and Honduras etc.

    I have friends that are 2nd generation immigrants from Mexico and do not, in fact, speak Spanish. So I’m thinking not Hispanic.

    • #25
    • July 1, 2020, at 6:36 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  26. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    Goldgeller (View Comment):

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    @cliffordbrown I could stand a bit of education: In the articles you quoted I see references to latinos, latinx and Hispanics. I’m thinking that these all refer to the same people that I used to know – and still refer to themselves – as “Mexican.”

    But there has to be a difference, can you explain?

    Hispanic is anyone who speaks Spanish. Latino is latin American origin + Spanish speaking. But some of my friends who study behavior note that the self-identification as latino is usually the result of experienced/perceived discrimination and the drive to develop a specific cultural/political identity beyond US census forms. I’m pretty darn sure latinx is just a made up thing by some woke people who want to erase gender and virtually no Hispanic person actually uses that.

    Also we have many immigrants from South and Central America including Guatemala and Honduras etc.

    I have friends that are 2nd generation immigrants from Mexico and do not, in fact, speak Spanish. So I’m thinking not Hispanic.

    Exploring this topic may well be worth an original post. I believe there is even polling data on how people choose to self-label. No, I’m not writing it.

    • #26
    • July 1, 2020, at 6:40 PM PDT
    • Like
    • This comment has been edited.
  27. RightAngles Member

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    Goldgeller (View Comment):

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    @cliffordbrown I could stand a bit of education: In the articles you quoted I see references to latinos, latinx and Hispanics. I’m thinking that these all refer to the same people that I used to know – and still refer to themselves – as “Mexican.”

    But there has to be a difference, can you explain?

    Hispanic is anyone who speaks Spanish. Latino is latin American origin + Spanish speaking. But some of my friends who study behavior note that the self-identification as latino is usually the result of experienced/perceived discrimination and the drive to develop a specific cultural/political identity beyond US census forms. I’m pretty darn sure latinx is just a made up thing by some woke people who want to erase gender and virtually no Hispanic person actually uses that.

    Also we have many immigrants from South and Central America including Guatemala and Honduras etc.

    I have friends that are 2nd generation immigrants from Mexico and do not, in fact, speak Spanish. So I’m thinking not Hispanic.

    I don’t think “Hispanic” means a person speaks Spanish. It means that’s their heritage or where their parents are from etc, like I’m Scottish but I don’t talk like them or run around with bagpipes.

    • #27
    • July 1, 2020, at 7:07 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  28. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    We can scientifically estimate that Dr. Fauci’s rants have killed a hundred thousand people. We cannot scientifically identify that any have been saved. Maybe he should have made his first words to the public, ‘I am not qualified.’ instead of waiting 6 months.

    • #28
    • July 1, 2020, at 7:54 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  29. Goldgeller Member

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    Goldgeller (View Comment):

    Housebroken (View Comment):

    @cliffordbrown I could stand a bit of education: In the articles you quoted I see references to latinos, latinx and Hispanics. I’m thinking that these all refer to the same people that I used to know – and still refer to themselves – as “Mexican.”

    But there has to be a difference, can you explain?

    Hispanic is anyone who speaks Spanish. Latino is latin American origin + Spanish speaking. But some of my friends who study behavior note that the self-identification as latino is usually the result of experienced/perceived discrimination and the drive to develop a specific cultural/political identity beyond US census forms. I’m pretty darn sure latinx is just a made up thing by some woke people who want to erase gender and virtually no Hispanic person actually uses that.

    Also we have many immigrants from South and Central America including Guatemala and Honduras etc.

    I have friends that are 2nd generation immigrants from Mexico and do not, in fact, speak Spanish. So I’m thinking not Hispanic.

    Exploring this topic may well be worth an original post. I believe there is even polling data on how people choose to self-label. No, I’m not writing it.

    Haha. I don’t really get into all that stuff. As you say, there is survey and experimental data. The latino/hispanic distinction comes from good surveys. But also census and survey forms sort of force people into boxes. I mean, if you are very much a Native American from Mexico (there before it was Mexico), I can just as easily see you checking “other” as easily as I can see checking Hispanic. Demographers pay attention things I didn’t even know to pay attention to. So much ink has been spilled over the Hispanics who identify as white (usually around 2nd/3rd generation) vs those who identify as latino. The effects of skin color on political belief is a thing of course, but quantifying it is a brand new “people are getting dissertations out of this” type of thing. 

    • #29
    • July 1, 2020, at 8:58 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  30. RightAngles Member

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    We can scientifically estimate that Dr. Fauci’s rants have killed a hundred thousand people. We cannot scientifically identify that any have been saved. Maybe he should have made his first words to the public, ‘I am not qualified.’ instead of waiting 6 months.

    It’s so frustrating to hear the nitwits who fatuously believe everything he says. On NextDoor.com or Reddit or anywhere else, anyone who even tries to question something he has said is torn apart. “Oh, and what is your degree in? I for one choose to believe a DOCTOR” etc. They have no idea.

    • #30
    • July 1, 2020, at 9:21 PM PDT
    • 5 likes