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The Illegal Immigration Question I’d Like To Hear
True to form, Jeb Bush went full throttle into to the “we can’t possibly deport 11 million illegal immigrants” zone, and quoted a rate of 500,000 per month. To be honest, he makes a reasonable point. The logistics of it are near impossible.
An Airbus A380 variant flown by Emirates Air can seat 615 people, the largest passenger capacity of any airline. It would require 813 flights of these behemoths every month (i.e, 27 a day) to move that many people. There are only 173 A380’s in service. Jeb may have been exercising hyperbole to support his position, but he isn’t off the mark.
Additionally, identifying and locating that many illegal aliens each month is near impossible and we have no method of doing so now.
Stepping away from the hyperbole, let’s give the candidates some operating room and say they have one term to deport the illegal aliens, which would mean about 200,000 a month. If a half million deportations per month is impossible, 200,000 is only barely achievable.
Relatedly, we need to be realistic about what “securing the border” means. One of my friends is a Texas State Trooper and was one of the first volunteers for the boat squadron that patrols the Rio Grande. His team works closely with US Border Patrol. I visited with him about the situation; suffice to say, border security isn’t as tough-minded as we often think. These days, being detained by Border Patrol doesn’t carry a threat of immediate deportation and is a big reason we continue to see thousands per week streaming into the country.
All that said, I have a scenario I want to pose to Ricochet that I wish was posed to the candidates.
Scenario
Leaving dinner on a Wednesday night, I make a legal left turn with a green arrow when a well-used Mercedes runs the light and hits me head on. No one is injured, but my SUV has to be towed away and — when all is said and done — I’m going to be out $7,000.
The Mercedes was driven by a young man with a young woman in the passenger seat. Neither of them speak English, and neither has a drivers license or any other form of identification. The car’s inspection and registration are both expired and there is no insurance. The girl in the passenger seat is pregnant, about four or five months along. They have little money.
A Spanish speaking officer is dispatched to the scene and one of the of the EMS technicians speaks Spanish. The driver and passenger are not married and admit to being here illegally. They are evasive about how they got here and whether they have relatives in the country or not.
The Question
Sir/Madam, in your administration, what will happen to these two?
If it is verified they are illegal aliens will they be allowed to stay or deported? If they are allowed to stay, will the woman receive publicly-funded healthcare for her pregnancy and child? If their child is born here, will he or she be granted American citizenship?
What I’d Like to Hear
In a Brent Administration, the young couple are taken into custody, their immigration status is determined, and they are turned over to ICE and held until deported. A process measured in days, not years.
They are allowed phone calls and — if family came to visit and found to be here illegally — they will be detained and deported also.
Once detained, they would not be temporarily released or allowed to gather their belongings, money, etc. This may seem rough treatment, but at least we aren’t going house to house doing no-knock raids as happened with Elian Gonzalez.
The Way Forward
This uncomfortable process garners immediate attention, makes people feel “unwelcome,” and challenges those here illegally. If they wish to return home on their own, they can take their possessions, money, family, etc. If they are stopped for so much as jaywalking they are interned in the criminal justice and ICE system until they are released outside our borders.
Not an easy choice and not intended to be. Breaking our laws should not be comfortable or without consequence.
If they elect to stay, live in the shadows, and seek employment for cash, they may do so, but there will be no legal acknowledgement or path to citizenship. Increased use of E-verify and raids on suspect businesses decrease the opportunities to better themselves. As soon as they step out of the shadows, into the purview of law enforcement, or try to get a birth certificate for a child, deportation begins as soon as they are identified without an opportunity to gather their family or possessions.
Summary
Jeb Bush is mostly correct: deporting that many illegal aliens isn’t practical. The steps to solve this crisis include, but not limited to:
- Real border enforcement (no more notices to appear or other hand receipts).
- No incentive to come illegally in the first place. No contorted 14th Amendment interpretation that extends citizenship to the children of these criminals.
- End forcing public education for illegal aliens.
- Conduct government business in English only.
- Increase E-verify and employer penalties
- Restrict repatriation of dollars by non-citizens.
Please note I did not include a wall funded by a third party. Rick Perry made a good point awhile back: build a 14′ wall and they make 15′ ladders. Of course he also supported in-state tuition for those who’d broken our immigration laws, so there was motivation for ladder manufacturing courtesy Rick Perry.
Giving illegal immigrants the opportunity and motivation to self-deport is possible. Raiding homes of people we can’t identify and locate to ship them out on 800 flights per month is not.
Published in General, Immigration, Politics
Please note I don’t think there is anything easy, fun, or compassionate about my proposal. When we’ve let something fester this long the cure is rarely painless.
Our law enforcement, legal system is strained as is. I would rather see them prosecuting violent crime.
Tom, in general I am against any form of capital control, but when looking at the cross border flow to Mexico as a result of our lax immigration enforcement it is astounding.
Oh no, I agree with your general point here entirely. I’m just specifically being skeptical of your #6.
I agree that we need a less-nice border security, should end birthright citizenship for children whose parents cannot confirm their legal status, and that public education shouldn’t be available to illegals (this would be rather cruel at first, but people would eventually stop immigrating illegally with their kids). I’m open to e-verify, but I haven’t studied it very much.
I agree that this point is controversial and one of the things I love about Ricochet. My ideas are challenged daily.
Whoa! That sounds like nativist blather to me, what are you some sort of crazy right-wing nutjob who hates the poor?
I am, of course, being sarcastic.
This is where the ridiculous overwhelming surveillance state we’ve built would actually come in handy. In Texas I have to have a fingerprint (or thumbprint?) taken when I get a driver’s license. Don’t have your ID because you “forgot it”?
Scan the thumb, verify they are who they say they are and if it doesn’t match off they go into Brent’s system.
As to the inevitable objections about not allowing us to ship people back to their country of origin my solution to that is economic sanctions. Most countries want our money more than they want to keep their own countrymen out.
Since when can a law enforcement officer not do this identification whether the party being identified has paperwork or not. All that’s needed is a name and address. Maybe then a SSN. No?
Hire me instead. I will do the job for half the money, and in half the time.
:)
If the laws against hiring illegal aliens were enforced, those people would self-deport because they could not work, barring entering crime.
I have a whole list of positions that involve handing out severance and securing the utilities. You are on the short list sir.
I’d be happy to defer to Ricochet’s LEOs on this one. My question is how do we separate out illegals in a way that comports with due process and doesn’t ensnare the proverbial black grandpa who never got an ID or opened a bank account.
I expect this challenge can be answered. I’m just skeptical that it’s easily answered.
Woohoo! I’m gonna git a gubmint job!
Pretty much. Without access to healthcare, welfare, or a job most people self deport. Hell without access to those three things post people wouldn’t even come over.
In regards to you scenario everyone involved gets deported. Being born in the US shouldn’t only grant citizenship if the parents are here legally. If you are here illegally(including having been born here illegally) you should get deported.
I am very happy with the idea of summarily deporting all people who are caught breaking laws while in the country (traffic, theft, etc.). I would add to this anyone who seeks public assistance.
Those illegals will already be in the hands of authorities then, and being caught means that they are not the kinds of future citizens we want anyway.
Those who keep their noses clean and heads down are actually fine with me – not as citizens, but as guest workers.
I have lived in places with third-world labor forces available. A whole lot of wealth is created merely through the comparative advantage of using cheap labor for things that can be done by illegals, allowing the rest of us to use our time much more efficiently.
Now, after thinking through this scenario a little more, it’s most likely, if the OP policies were in effect, that anyone involved in an accident as described and not here legally would leave the scene before any LEO shows up.
Or the simple fact that America is a much better place to live in than where they are coming from.
The BrentB67 Deportation Program would stall, crash, burn and die in about a week.
“The bloated body of 2-year-old Juan Gomez was discovered by relatives yesterday. ‘We just found out that Juan’s parents had been deported last week under BB67DP. We came over and found him all blue and dead. They had just gone out to get diapers and formula, and had expected to be gone only a few minutes when they were pulled over for a broken tail light.’
According Medical Ethics Professor George Plontz of the university’s Healing Heart Hospital, ‘Death by dehydration and starvation is one of the most horrible deaths a child can suffer.’
North Carolina Representative Melissa Harris Perry today introduced a Bill of Impeachment against President Brent…”
Agreed. Take away their incentive for being here and most will leave on their own.
It shouldn’t matter how many leave on their own. We should just focus on eliminating the incentives and reducing the opportunities for more illegals to sneak in.
In defensive firearms training, we’re taught to shoot to stop the threat, not to kill. The fact that a shot that’s effective in stopping a threat is likely to be life-threatening is beside the point. Conversely, an attacker may receive a fatal gunshot, yet continue functioning (and attacking) for several minutes before expiring. Hence, you shoot to stop, not to kill. If they haven’t stopped attacking, you don’t stop shooting. Once they stop, stop shooting. Later, honestly telling a jury you shot to stop the attack sounds much better than saying you shot to kill.
Similar to the “stop the threat” mindset being superior to a “kill the bastard” mindset, we need to change our terminology and mindset away from deportation, whether government- or self-imposed. Focus instead on eliminating the incentives and opportunities for illegal immigration. The fact that the incentives being gone will likely cause a good bit of self-deportation should be beside the point.
Stop stepping into the “can’t deport all of ’em” trap. Just repeat “eliminate perverse incentives” until our teeth bleed.
Note that my above isn’t intended to preclude the idea of government deportation. But the reason for deporting illegals shouldn’t be to kick them out or punish them in some way, but rather to eliminate the incentives for others to sneak in.
Keeping this thought in mind would naturally change the way the issue is framed and debated, hopefully resulting in more politically
acceptablesuccessful rhetoric.First, arrest & deport any obvious (hijab, MS tattoos, etc.) who stands in a grocery check-out and complains how racist and unfair this country is. Next, do the same to people complaining about those flying the flag of THIS country (check them for visas or being illegally in this country). If they’re citizens, fine them for filing a false complaint, or trying to violate the 1st amendment rights of the person with the flag. Any person here on a student visa who complains (see above) gets the visa revoked, and they go home. They are GUESTS in our country (you don’t visit someone in their home and complain about the food and the color of the towels and what music they listen to!). If this country is so terrible, why do people come here to college? For that matter, if we’re such a terrible nation, why come here at all?
If you make work problematic by employer crackdown,
If using a phony ID has serious jail time
If you start deporting people who apply for welfare and are using phony credentials
If you deport any convicted felon or captured accused felon who is illegal,
If there is a path back in with a sponsor, you will find the 11 million will be greatly reduced without anything other than a token round up.
If the American public will rally against the deportation of people who committed violent crimes, the country is lost anyway.
Make residence contingent on having a job or being married to someone who does with dependent children. No job, no work permit. If you were once illegal and come back, no citizenship for you.
This is a joke right?
So repeal the first amendment. Got it.
No. Islam is fundamentally incompatible with Western civilization.
Jamie, excuse me? How many times have you seen in the news where someone was forced to remove the United States flag because it offended someone of another nationality? There are a lot more of us than of them, yet WE’RE the ones who have to knuckle under? Many times there is only ONE complaint! I’ve also seen several accounts of a store clerk being berated by a woman in a hijab; if she hates this country, make her leave! As far as anyone with MS-13 tattoos, need I really say more? We have enough crime here, without importing more! I can’t see how you got ‘repeal the 1st amendment’ out of my comments.
Mike, thank you!
My pleasure!
You’re presenting a false choice. Allowing legal immigrants their God given rights does not require the rest of us to cave in to their demands.
Never?