Is The Communist Manifesto Misunderstood?

 

In college, I was surprised when an honest and charitable philosophy professor I very much admired claimed that Karl Marx is misunderstood. Marx would not have supported communism as we have known it, he told me. What was seen at the hands of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, or even Gorbachev was not communism as Marx envisioned it.

Next week, Ubisoft will release the next grand episode in its popular series of historical playgrounds, Assassin’s Creed: Syndicate. Because the overarching theme of the Assassin’s Creed series (about as philosophically consistent as Star Wars) is a conflict between the freedom-loving Assassins and conspiring Templar oppressors, the game’s setting in Victorian London will emphasize struggles for power among the classes of industrial British society.

Is my professor’s claim about Karl Marx and his Communist Manifesto just the same dangerous delusion that has made forced redistribution of property and flattening of culture the foundation of the Democratic Party? Or were the published ideas of Marx distorted and misapplied by people who wanted communism to be something fundamentally different?

What should students learn about Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, and the The Communist Manifesto? Is that the true origin of communism?

Published in Economics
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  1. James Of England Moderator
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Jordan Wiegand:

    Aaron Miller: The games and the movie will ensure millions of people are exposed to these portrayals of historical figures like Karl Marx. The majority of learning occurs by passive observation, not by schools and debates.

    This is why people like us need to make video games btw.

    If we hand over all the institutions of culture, and right now the big one is these big production video games, which have production budgets to rival (and exceed in some cases) major motion pictures, then we shouldn’t be surprised if we get the same thing that happened in Hollywood and televisions happens in the video game industry.

    Games are more powerful cultural media than TV and movies as well, since you participate. You affirm the protagonists actions because you in a real sense make things happen.

    One of the saddest moments for me in modern conservatism was the response to Medal of Honor (2010). This is a game, set in Afghanistan, that tells the true story of a number of American heroes, focusing on the Battle of Roberts Ridge. It was one of the finest pieces of modern American propaganda I have seen, properly valorizing our men for their bravery, effectiveness, and humanity. When it was released, it was heavily criticized by conservatives because in the multiplayer version, some people play the Taliban. No word yet on whether these people feel similarly concerned about cops and robbers.

    As a result of the damage done, the next in the series was a terrible, fictional, story and then the series came to an end (before the Afghan installment, there were a dozen WWII games, making the link between our heroism then and now even stronger).

    • #61
  2. Sabrdance Member
    Sabrdance
    @Sabrdance

    Aaron Miller:If ever there was a setting when the Church and Templars were obviously the good guys, that was it. But no, the Templars would be Ubisoft’s villains.

    In the first game, it is clear that the Crusades themselves are a sideshow.  The “Templars” are 13 men, 7 Christians and 7 Muslims (spoiler: none of them are actual believers, and the 7th on each side is the heretical Al-Mualim, leader of the Assassins).  Richard and Saladin are both treated as unimportant people who happen to be useful catspaws to the Templars.

    In the second game, the Templars are virtually the pet project of Rodrigo Borgia’s ego, whereas the Assassins are primarily teachers.  The great track of the game is Ezio’s development of moral behavior and his eventual realization that revenge isn’t ethical.  It’s only in Revelations and AC3 that the metaphysical wheels come off the wagon.

    Great Ghost of Gödel:

    Aaron Miller:

     The majority of learning occurs by passive observation, not by schools and debates.

    Quite right. So I continue to recommend Hitman: Absolution as a very satisfying chaser.

    Why?  I mean, if you’re going to choose a Hitman game, couldn’t you pick a good one?  Like Blood Money?  Absolution is  cartoonish trainwreck of plot holes and unidimensional characters, that still manage to act OOC whenever the plot demands it.

    No, if you want a good game that stands against the stupidity of contemporary America, I suggest HALO 4.

    • #62
  3. James Of England Moderator
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Jordan Wiegand:

    Ekosj:The problem with Marx is that he is just plain wrong … And demonstrably wrong. All of Marx rests on the foundation of the Labor Theory of Value.And LTV is wrong. LTV is NOT how prices are determined. It is simple to find counter examples that demonstrate LTV’s falsehood. And without LTV, all of Marx is fantasy.

    I think LTV is off, but intrinsic value theories seem to have some truth to them. I guess the problem is “who gets to decide value, and how is it not just price eventually.” But theres something to assessing value independently.

    I tend to think that value is really intrinsic, or at least objectively measurable. Where price is whatever the market is willing to pay you or be paid, at that moment.

    As I noted above, Thomas Sowell pretty comprehensively demonstrates that Marx did not believe in the LToV and used it only as an approximation, noting that it was inaccurate in a footnote, and later expanding to use the correct Exchange Theory of Value. There are many things that Marx was wrong about (this is true for all 19th century thinkers in most fields), but the LToV is not one of them.

    • #63
  4. Sabrdance Member
    Sabrdance
    @Sabrdance

    James Of England:

    Jordan Wiegand:

    One of the saddest moments for me in modern conservatism was the response to Medal of Honor (2010). This is a game, set in Afghanistan, that tells the true story of a number of American heroes, focusing on the Battle of Roberts Ridge. It was one of the finest pieces of modern American propaganda I have seen, properly valorizing our men for their bravery, effectiveness, and humanity. When it was released, it was heavily criticized by conservatives because in the multiplayer version, some people play the Taliban. No word yet on whether these people feel similarly concerned about cops and robbers.

    While I don’t disagree with the overarching point, I don’t think that’s what led to Warfighter being such a lousy game.  The problem was that EA was crunching release dates and trying to mimic Call of Duty.  This caused all of their games to drop in quality between 2010 and 2014.

    • #64
  5. Great Ghost of Gödel Inactive
    Great Ghost of Gödel
    @GreatGhostofGodel

    Sabrdance:

    Why? I mean, if you’re going to choose a Hitman game, couldn’t you pick a good one? Like Blood Money? Absolution is cartoonish trainwreck of plot holes and unidimensional characters, that still manage to act OOC whenever the plot demands it.

    I hear that a lot from aficionados of earlier entries in the franchise. Chalk it up, I suppose, to appreciating any attempt to situate a moral agent (heh) in a thoroughly corrupt modern world, including consideration of the morality of violence in defense of another, that includes a positive role for religion, including driving a fascinating stake in the ground: #47 and Victoria (heh again) are genetically-engineered clones, but Absolution insists they are human beings with dignity, moral agency, and—crucially—are redeemable.

    OK, yes, I also get a kick out of Keith Carradine joyously chewing the scenery as a thoroughly self-aware sociopathic villain.

    No, if you want a good game that stands against the stupidity of contemporary America, I suggest HALO 4.

    If those guys ever return to their Mac roots, rest assured, I’ll follow up.

    • #65
  6. James Of England Moderator
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Sabrdance:

    James Of England:

    Jordan Wiegand:

    One of the saddest moments for me in modern conservatism was the response to Medal of Honor (2010). This is a game, set in Afghanistan, that tells the true story of a number of American heroes, focusing on the Battle of Roberts Ridge. It was one of the finest pieces of modern American propaganda I have seen, properly valorizing our men for their bravery, effectiveness, and humanity. When it was released, it was heavily criticized by conservatives because in the multiplayer version, some people play the Taliban. No word yet on whether these people feel similarly concerned about cops and robbers.

    While I don’t disagree with the overarching point, I don’t think that’s what led to Warfighter being such a lousy game. The problem was that EA was crunching release dates and trying to mimic Call of Duty. This caused all of their games to drop in quality between 2010 and 2014.

    If Warfighter had been a lousy game that celebrated American heroes in the way that Medal of Honor did, I’d likely have enjoyed it. I acknowledge that I am not a key marketing demographic.

    • #66
  7. Jordan Wiegand Inactive
    Jordan Wiegand
    @Jordan

    James Of England: As a result of the damage done, the next in the series was a terrible, fictional, story and then the series came to an end (before the Afghan installment, there were a dozen WWII games, making the link between our heroism then and now even stronger).

    Yeah, I’m inclined to say that there’s no effective difference between those on the right complaining that in a multiplayer game someone is the Taliban, to those on the left complaining that a game by a Polish studio, about Polish mythology, set in a medieval era, has no “persons of color.”

    I thought MoH 2010 was fantastic and very respectful.  It was manifestly clear who were the good guys and who were the bad guys.  To even suggest that it was a problem that someone could play the opposing force is insulting to people.  It’s not always red vs blue, but I guess that’s the natural result of worrying about the thought-police.

    And yes, you should all play Witcher 3 because it is the best RPG of the decade, period.

    • #67
  8. Frank Soto Contributor
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Jordan Wiegand: And yes, you should all play Witcher 3 because it is the best RPG of the decade, period.

    Depends on what you are looking for in a RPG.  I would say Skyrim is the best RPG of the decade by a wide margin.

    • #68
  9. Jordan Wiegand Inactive
    Jordan Wiegand
    @Jordan

    Frank Soto:

    Jordan Wiegand: And yes, you should all play Witcher 3 because it is the best RPG of the decade, period.

    Depends on what you are looking for in a RPG. I would say Skyrim is the best RPG of the decade by a wide margin.

    That’s true.  Witcher 3 goes for a tight, nuanced, down-to-earth narrative, where in Skyrim you are basically the prime mover of an entire world and do anything

    In witcher 3 you’re part of the world, but in Skyrim, you’re the leader of the assassins, warriors, mages, thieves, dragons, dragon slayers, Imperial and or Rebel legions, and you ride dragons for fun, and happen to be a vampire and or werewolf.

    I like Witcher 3 more because it’s more down to earth.  Events kinda feel like that have an urgency to Geralt, while all events wait on the Dragonborn demigod.

    • #69
  10. Frank Soto Contributor
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Jordan Wiegand:

    Frank Soto:

    Jordan Wiegand: And yes, you should all play Witcher 3 because it is the best RPG of the decade, period.

    Depends on what you are looking for in a RPG. I would say Skyrim is the best RPG of the decade by a wide margin.

    That’s true. Witcher 3 goes for a tight, nuanced, down-to-earth narrative, where in Skyrim you are basically the prime mover of an entire world and do anything

    In witcher 3 you’re part of the world, but in Skyrim, you’re the leader of the assassins, warriors, mages, thieves, dragons, dragon slayers, Imperial and or Rebel legions, and you ride dragons for fun, and happen to be a vampire and or werewolf.

    I like Witcher 3 more because it’s more down to earth. Events kinda feel like that have an urgency to Geralt, while all events wait on the Dragonborn demigod.

    This is part of the difference.  The other issue is how much of the character belongs to you as opposed to the writers.

    When the character’s appearance, name, gender, and background are chosen by the writers, it allows more in depth of story telling, but also separates you a bit from the character, as projection becomes harder.

    Skyrim ends up with a more superficial story line because all of these things are left up to you, but the character can be you. You can more effectively be immersed in the world.

    Before Bioware went to crap they were pretty good at balancing these competing priorities.

    • #70
  11. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    James Of England: One of the saddest moments for me in modern conservatism was the response to Medal of Honor (2010). This is a game, set in Afghanistan, that tells the true story of a number of American heroes, focusing on the Battle of Roberts Ridge. It was one of the finest pieces of modern American propaganda I have seen, properly valorizing our men for their bravery, effectiveness, and humanity. When it was released, it was heavily criticized by conservatives because in the multiplayer version, some people play the Taliban. No word yet on whether these people feel similarly concerned about cops and robbers.

    Yes, conservative pundits dropped the ball on the Mass Effect series as well. The second and third games included brief, modest, non-interactive sex scenes — nothing but bare legs and bare shoulders, portrayed romantically. FOX News and others responded with unbalanced coverage denouncing the presence of sexual content in “children’s entertainment”.

    They ignored that the game had an ESRB rating (akin to PG, PG-13, and R) to inform parents. They ignored that most of the players were working adults, not teenagers. They ignored that the scene was tasteful by comparison to most TV shows and movies.

    Worst of all, they ignored Bioware’s leadership in bringing philosophical depth to games and challenging players to make difficult moral decisions through conversation options.

    As a result, few gamers look to conservative media for thoughtful commentary and conservative game developers expect little appreciation.

    • #71
  12. Sabrdance Member
    Sabrdance
    @Sabrdance

    Aaron Miller:

     

    Yes, conservative pundits dropped the ball on the Mass Effect series as well. The second and third games included brief, modest, non-interactive sex scenes

    That was the first game (which was more explicit, and probably accounts for why it was toned down in the second).  And this was mostly FOX’s fault -the conservative pundit they brought in hadn’t seen the scene, and was working from the description.  Once they saw the scene, they recanted.  It was one of the reasons I got the game, was to see what the fuss was about.  In retrospect, the far more troublesome aspect of the sex scenes in 2 and 3 was how divorced from the plot, and how utterly onanistic they were, both in universe and out -and presaged the disastrous date-sim mechanics that screwed up Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition.

    Worst of all, they ignored Bioware’s leadership in bringing philosophical depth to games and challenging players to make difficult moral decisions through conversation options.

    Let’s not go overboard in our praise -the deepest BioWare game was made by Obsidian, and the seams were showing in their philosophy as early as Neverwinter Nights.  They did, admittedly, really flout their ignorance in Mass Effect 3, but the signs were there decades before.

    As a result, few gamers look to conservative media for thoughtful commentary and conservative game developers expect little appreciation.

    True.  I wonder how much this is changing post gamer-gate.

    • #72
  13. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Incidentally, Medal of Honor (2010) is the only game that has successfully recreated the soldier’s experience of expecting certain death as enemies close in and then being miraculously saved at the last moment by unexpected support.

    You’d think more conservatives would appreciate the lengths to which publishers have gone in recent years to solicit advise from seasoned soldiers. It’s now standard for war games to hire military advisers.

    True, the writers and lead designers are still mostly flaming hippies in California and other commie-loving fairylands. But at least they’re trying to understand soldiers now.

    • #73
  14. Sabrdance Member
    Sabrdance
    @Sabrdance

    Frank Soto:

    Jordan Wiegand:

    Frank Soto:

    Jordan Wiegand: And yes, you should all play Witcher 3 because it is the best RPG of the decade, period.

    Depends on what you are looking for in a RPG. I would say Skyrim is the best RPG of the decade by a wide margin.

    I like Witcher 3 more because it’s more down to earth. Events kinda feel like that have an urgency to Geralt, while all events wait on the Dragonborn demigod.

    This is part of the difference. The other issue is how much of the character belongs to you as opposed to the writers.

    Skyrim ends up with a more superficial story line because all of these things are left up to you, but the character can be you. You can more effectively be immersed in the world.

    I got Witcher 2 on Games with Gold and thought was worth about what I paid for it.  I kept feeling like I should get this game, but just couldn’t.  Skyrim was more up my alley.  But the best RPG of the last decade?

    I don’t know about that.  I’d be inclined to give the nod to Alpha Protocol, and that only because KOTOR II was released in 2004.

    • #74
  15. Frank Soto Contributor
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    I must resist the urge to go on a 10,000 word rant about the decline of Bioware.

    • #75
  16. Frank Soto Contributor
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Sabrdance:

    Frank Soto:

    Jordan Wiegand:

    Frank Soto:

    Jordan Wiegand: And yes, you should all play Witcher 3 because it is the best RPG of the decade, period.

    Depends on what you are looking for in a RPG. I would say Skyrim is the best RPG of the decade by a wide margin.

    I like Witcher 3 more because it’s more down to earth. Events kinda feel like that have an urgency to Geralt, while all events wait on the Dragonborn demigod.

    This is part of the difference. The other issue is how much of the character belongs to you as opposed to the writers.

    Skyrim ends up with a more superficial story line because all of these things are left up to you, but the character can be you. You can more effectively be immersed in the world.

    I got Witcher 2 on Games with Gold and thought was worth about what I paid for it. I kept feeling like I should get this game, but just couldn’t. Skyrim was more up my alley. But the best RPG of the last decade?

    I don’t know about that. I’d be inclined to give the nod to Alpha Protocol, and that only because KOTOR II was released in 2004.

    KOTOR II has a special place in my heart, but one can only be so forgiving of an unfinished game.

    • #76
  17. Sabrdance Member
    Sabrdance
    @Sabrdance

    Frank Soto:KOTOR II has a special place in my heart, but one can only be so forgiving of an unfinished game.

    It is a vastly superior game with the Sith Lords Restoration Mod installed.  But even with the clearly unfinished ending, I thought the original game was still very good.  TSLRM doesn’t add that much thematically to the game, it just, well, polishes the rough edges and hides the seams.


    Frank Soto
    :I must resist the urge to go on a 10,000 word rant about the decline of Bioware.

    Give in to the darkside.

    • #77
  18. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Sabrdance: Let’s not go overboard in our praise -the deepest BioWare game was made by Obsidian, and the seams were showing in their philosophy as early as Neverwinter Nights.  They did, admittedly, really flout their ignorance in Mass Effect 3, but the signs were there decades before.

    I wasn’t referring to plots so much as to optional side missions and conversation trees which challenge the player to deeply consider complex moral dilemmas before making a choice.

    Story-wise, Mass Effect 2 was my favorite, largely for the complicated companion characters. But the first game includes some of the best moral dilemmas.

    For example: A man wants the body of his wife, a soldier, for quick burial. But the military is holding the body to help learn about unfamiliar enemy weapons used in the battle that killed her. Whose rights or needs take priority?

    By the way, I have another post in mind regarding Mafia 3 that I’ll be publishing soon.

    And yes, Skyrim is a masterpiece.

    • #78
  19. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Frank Soto:I must resist the urge to go on a 10,000 word rant about the decline of Bioware.

    Make it a post. I’m interested.

    • #79
  20. Frank Soto Contributor
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Sabrdance:

    Frank Soto:KOTOR II has a special place in my heart, but one can only be so forgiving of an unfinished game.

    It is a vastly superior game with the Sith Lords Restoration Mod installed. But even with the clearly unfinished ending, I thought the original game was still very good. TSLRM doesn’t add that much thematically to the game, it just, well, polishes the rough edges and hides the seams.

    Frank Soto:I must resist the urge to go on a 10,000 word rant about the decline of Bioware.

    Give in to the darkside.

    What kills me is that there was a time when even when they screwed the pooch on the plot, you could count on interesting characters who you would grow to care about.

    I only recently relented and played Inquisition and it was clear that all of the magic is gone.  You could have the villain murder almost all of them in front of me and my reaction would have been “meh”.

    • #80
  21. Austin Blair Inactive
    Austin Blair
    @AustinBlair

    Got quite a bit off track on Marxism but I have to admit, it is good to see that I am not the only person on this site that has put hours into all of the aforementioned games.  And Skyrim is still my favorite…

    • #81
  22. Jordan Wiegand Inactive
    Jordan Wiegand
    @Jordan

    Sabrdance: I got Witcher 2 on Games with Gold and thought was worth about what I paid for it.  I kept feeling like I should get this game, but just couldn’t.  Skyrim was more up my alley.  But the best RPG of the last decade?

    AP is highly underrated.  I enjoyed that title a lot.  It’s unfortunate that it won’t see any sequels.

    Just don’t play Witcher 1, unless you are a bit of a masochist for spreadsheets, that game is complex.

    W3 manages to put a capstone on Geralt’s adventures in a highly satisfying way.  I enjoy it because of the limitations.

    I also love me some Skyrim (and mods!), but I have trouble losing myself in that story because it’s so fantastical.  Witcher’s story has an, I dunno, earthy, quality to it.  It feels more real in a way Skyrim does not.  Might just come down to preference.

    BioWare has had some good titles.  Dragon Age Origins was great.  Obviously NWN as well.  KOTOR will always have a special place for me as well.

    But now their new stuff feels like Generic BioWare Game: The Sequel.  It’s not bad, it’s not good either, it’s just… there.

    • #82
  23. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Hi James of England

    Re Labor Theory of Value and Marx…

    Lets let the man speak for himself:

    “We arrive, therefore, at this conclusion. A commodity has a value, because it is a crystallization of social labour. The greatness of its value, or its relative value, depends upon the greater or less amount of that social substance contained in it; that is to say, on the relative mass of labour necessary for its production. Therelative values of commodities are, therefore, determined by the respective quantities or amounts of labour, worked up, realized, fixed in them. The correlative quantities of commodities which can be produced in the same time of labour are equal. Or the value of one commodity is to the value of another commodity as the quantity of labour fixed in the one is to the quantity of labour fixed in the other.”

    Sounds like he believes it to me.

    • #83
  24. viruscop Member
    viruscop
    @Viruscop

    Frank Soto:

    Sabrdance:

    Frank Soto:

    Jordan Wiegand:

    Frank Soto:

    Jordan Wiegand: And yes, you should all play Witcher 3 because it is the best RPG of the decade, period.

    Depends on what you are looking for in a RPG. I would say Skyrim is the best RPG of the decade by a wide margin.

    I like Witcher 3 more because it’s more down to earth. Events kinda feel like that have an urgency to Geralt, while all events wait on the Dragonborn demigod.

    This is part of the difference. The other issue is how much of the character belongs to you as opposed to the writers.

    Skyrim ends up with a more superficial story line because all of these things are left up to you, but the character can be you. You can more effectively be immersed in the world.

    I got Witcher 2 on Games with Gold and thought was worth about what I paid for it. I kept feeling like I should get this game, but just couldn’t. Skyrim was more up my alley. But the best RPG of the last decade?

    I don’t know about that. I’d be inclined to give the nod to Alpha Protocol, and that only because KOTOR II was released in 2004.

    KOTOR II has a special place in my heart, but one can only be so forgiving of an unfinished game.

    It is largely finished now. I have it, and it is great with all the restored content.

    • #84
  25. Frank Soto Contributor
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Aaron Miller:

    Frank Soto:I must resist the urge to go on a 10,000 word rant about the decline of Bioware.

    Make it a post. I’m interested.

    I may take a stab at it this weekend.  When only 3 people read it I’m blaming you.

    • #85
  26. Larry3435 Member
    Larry3435
    @Larry3435

    “What was seen at the hands of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, or even Gorbachev was not communism as Marx envisioned it.”

    As many have already said, this is true.  Communism as practiced is never what Marx envisioned.  It is just what you inevitably get when you try to implement what Marx envisioned.  Somehow, you always end up with a brutal, corrupt dictator at the top.  In leftist circles, this is known as “bad luck.”

    • #86
  27. Larry3435 Member
    Larry3435
    @Larry3435

    Ekosj:Hi James of England

    Re Labor Theory of Value and Marx…

    Lets let the man speak for himself:

    “We arrive, therefore, at this conclusion. A commodity has a value, because it is a crystallization of social labour. The greatness of its value, or its relative value, depends upon the greater or less amount of that social substance contained in it; that is to say, on the relative mass of labour necessary for its production. Therelative values of commodities are, therefore, determined by the respective quantities or amounts of labour, worked up, realized, fixed in them. The correlative quantities of commodities which can be produced in the same time of labour are equal. Or the value of one commodity is to the value of another commodity as the quantity of labour fixed in the one is to the quantity of labour fixed in the other.”

    Sounds like he believes it to me.

    He should have painted a picture and sold it for the price of a Renoir.

    • #87
  28. Could be Anyone Member
    Could be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    All this weeping over video games and leftist propaganda; may I interest you in some computer games (PC Master Race)? Games like Hearts of Iron 4 or Crusader Kings 2 or Attila Total War or Company of Heroes 2. All this talk of FPS and RPG misses the market for those of RTS and grand strategy (paradox in particular has used heavy degrees of RPG elements in their grand strategy games)…

    The Paradox game series (speaking particular of Crusader Kings II and Europa Universalis IV; you can export files from CKII to EUIV) especially does a great job of showing the vast diversity of history and the struggle of the civilisation from 780 AD to 1820 AD. Total War does a better job of showing the gruesomeness of war through their combat and have some of the same political and social characteristics of CK2 but of a weaker degree and TW games do not cover the same length of time (they range from 100-300 years) nor the same development of societies while other stagnate.

    My point being, I guess, that not all video games support a leftist bend. Many, at least in grand strategy and RTS games, do a good job of showing a neutral (and in some degrees a right wing) bend, especially grand strategy games since they force you into a struggle for your civilization/faction’s existence.

    • #88
  29. Jordan Wiegand Inactive
    Jordan Wiegand
    @Jordan

    Could be Anyone:All this weeping over video games and leftist propaganda; may I interest you in some computer games (PC Master Race)? Games like Hearts of Iron 4 or Crusader Kings 2 or Attila Total War or Company of Heroes 2. All this talk of FPS and RPG misses the market for those of RTS and grand strategy (paradox in particular has used heavy degrees of RPG elements in their grand strategy games)…

    The Paradox game series (speaking particular of Crusader Kings II and Europa Universalis IV; you can export files from CKII to EUIV) especially does a great job of showing the vast diversity of history and the struggle of the civilisation from 780 AD to 1820 AD. Total War does a better job of showing the gruesomeness of war through their combat and have some of the same political and social characteristics of CK2 but of a weaker degree and TW games do not cover the same length of time (they range from 100-300 years) nor the same development of societies while other stagnate.

    Glorious.

    I’m a big fan of EU4 and CK2 myself.  Trying to move into HoI 3 but that game makes EU4 look like Civ 5 game.

    • #89
  30. James Of England Moderator
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    It takes Sowell a couple of

    Ekosj:Hi James of England

    Re Labor Theory of Value and Marx…

    Lets let the man speak for himself:

    “We arrive, therefore, at this conclusion. A commodity has a value, because it is a crystallization of social labour. The greatness of its value, or its relative value, depends upon the greater or less amount of that social substance contained in it; that is to say, on the relative mass of labour necessary for its production. Therelative values of commodities are, therefore, determined by the respective quantities or amounts of labour, worked up, realized, fixed in them. The correlative quantities of commodities which can be produced in the same time of labour are equal. Or the value of one commodity is to the value of another commodity as the quantity of labour fixed in the one is to the quantity of labour fixed in the other.”

    Sounds like he believes it to me.

    As he says in Kapital, he believes it to be a useful approximation. What you’re quoting here is a relatively short speech on the differences between value provided by laborers and wages, which explicitly uses the same approximations that Adam Smith uses. He goes into more detail when he has more space.

    If you haven’t read Sowell’s book, it’s definitely worth reading, and the chapter on the LToV stands alone pretty well if you only have time for that.

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