Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
The Trump Debate Corner
A lot happened at the main debate tonight, but let’s focus on Trump on this thread, because, face it: He’s probably the reason most people tuned in.
I didn’t watch the debate; I listened to it from my computer, on Ricochet. From just of one of his answers alone, Trump came out looking as bad as I’d imagined him to be. I’ll dissect it and some more to show you why.
First, his answer to Megan Kelly when she asked him about his rude comments about women just made him sound angry. By the end, he seemed to be attacking Megan just for asking the question.
KELLY: Mr. Trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don’t use a politician’s filter. However, that is not without its downsides, in particular, when it comes to women. You’ve called women you don’t like “fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.” Your Twitter account…
TRUMP: Only Rosie O’Donnell.
KELLY: No, it wasn’t. Your Twitter account … For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O’Donnell.
TRUMP: Yes, I’m sure it was.
KELLY: Your Twitter account has several disparaging comments about women’s looks. You once told a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. Does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should elect as president, and how will you answer the charge from Hillary Clinton, who was likely to be the Democratic nominee, that you are part of the war on women?
TRUMP: I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. I’ve been challenged by so many people, and I don’t frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn’t have time either. This country is in big trouble. We don’t win anymore. We lose to China. We lose to Mexico both in trade and at the border. We lose to everybody. And frankly, what I say, and oftentimes it’s fun, it’s kidding. We have a good time. What I say is what I say. And honestly Megyn, if you don’t like it, I’m sorry. I’ve been very nice to you, although I could probably maybe not be, based on the way you have treated me. But I wouldn’t do that. What I say is what I say. And honestly. Megyn, if you don’t like it, I’m sorry. I’ve been very nice to you, although I could probably maybe not be, based on the way you have treated me. But I wouldn’t do that.
He seemed so ungentlemanly.
Second was his reply when asked about his contributions to the Clintons and Democrats. I think he actually spoke the truth for half of his answer:
BAIER: Mr. Trump, it’s not just your past support for single-payer health care. You’ve also supported a host of other liberal policies. Use — you’ve also donated to several Democratic candidates, Hillary Clinton included, Nancy Pelosi. You explained away those donations saying you did that to get business-related favors. And you said recently, quote, “When you give, they do whatever the hell you want them to do.”
TRUMP: You’d better believe it.
BAIER: So what specifically did they do?
TRUMP: If I ask them, if I need them, you know, most of the people on this stage I’ve given to, just so you understand, a lot of money.
He made it sound as if he paid then off, like all big businessmen do so, to get in with them, and that is just how business is done. When asked what favors they did for him he deflected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you get from Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi?
TRUMP: Well, I’ll tell you what, with Hillary Clinton, I said be at my wedding and she came to my wedding. You know why? She didn’t have a choice because I gave. I gave to a foundation that, frankly, that foundation is supposed to do good. I didn’t know her money would be used on private jets going all over the world. It was.
It was so insincere. All I could think was that he had to deflect, but that the truth is either that he really liked them, politically, or that what they did for him was clearly crooked. Probably both. The man loves to brag about doing business, but he comes of like a shark. Why not say, “I pay bribes to all these guys because if I don’t they won’t let me make an honest buck?” No, he always comes off like he is proud to be part of that crooked world.
The final quote that sunk it for me was when he was asked about his business going bankrupt.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, you talk a lot about how you are the person on this stage to grow the economy. I want to ask you about your business record. Trump corporations — Trump corporations, casinos and hotels, have declared bankruptcy four times over the last quarter-century. In 2011, you told Forbes Magazine this: “I’ve used the laws of the country to my advantage.” But at the same time, financial experts involved in those bankruptcies say that lenders to your companies lost billions of dollars. Question sir, with that record, why should we trust you to run the nation’s business?
TRUMP: Because I have used the laws of this country just like the greatest people that you read about every day in business have used the laws of this country, the chapter laws, to do a great job for my company, for myself, for my employees, for my family, et cetera. I have never gone bankrupt, by the way. I have never. But out of hundreds of deals …
WALLACE: No, but the concept sir …
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.
WALLACE: … that’s your line, but your companies have gone bankrupt.
TRUMP: Excuse me, what am I saying? Out of hundreds of deals that I’ve done, hundreds, on four occasions I’ve taken advantage of the laws of this country, like other people. I’m not going to name their names because I’m not going to embarrass, but virtually every person that you read about on the front page of the business sections, they’ve used the law. The difference is, when somebody else uses those laws, nobody writes about it. When I use it, they say, “Trump, Trump, Trump.” The fact is, I built a net worth of more than $10 billion. I have a great, great company. I employ thousands of people. And I’m very proud of the job I did. Again Chris, hundreds and hundreds of deals. Four times, I’ve taken advantage of the laws. And frankly, so has everybody else in my position.
WALLACE: Well sir, let’s just talk about the latest example, which is Trump Entertainment Resorts, which went bankrupt in 2009. In that case alone, lenders to your company lost over $1 billion and more than 1,100 people were laid off.
TRUMP: Well, I…
WALLACE: Is that the way that you’d run the country?
TRUMP: Let me just tell you about the lenders. First of all, these lenders aren’t babies. These are total killers. These are not the nice, sweet little people that you think, OK? You know, I mean you’re living in a world of the make-believe, Chris, you want to know the truth. And I had the good sense to leave Atlantic City, which by the way, Caesars just went bankrupt. Every company, Chris can tell you, every company virtually in Atlantic City went bankrupt.Every company. And let me just tell you. I had the good sense, and I’ve gotten a lot of credit in the financial pages, seven years ago I left Atlantic City before it totally cratered, and I made a lot of money in Atlantic City, and I’m very proud of it. I want to tell you that. Very, very proud of it.
“I took advantage of the law.” I nearly snapped my keyboard in two when I heard him say that. What was he saying? I know how the game is played and I play it well. Well, my dear Mr. Trump. The game and its crooked rules are the problem! You did well for yourself (something he never fails to mention) by taking advantage of the law. Good for you, you have all the lawyers and shady accountants that let you get away with it, but what about the rest of us?
The man has provided enough attack ad material in this one debate to last until November 2016.
One more thing. Trump is really down on America. He never says how things will be better. The last thing I recall him saying is that we can’t negotiate, win wars, or keep our allies. We can’t do these things because of the Democrats. But that never comes off from his speeches. I think as people go back and look through his performance here, he will plummet in the polls and I hope to irrelevancy.
Does anyone here think he did well? Is anyone still pleased with him?
Published in Domestic Policy, Elections, General, Politics
That seems about right to me. Of course as an American I don’t pay attention to anyone else elections, but as a Ricochet member I am actually very curious about other nations political process. It is always so gratifying to know everyone is as messed up as yourself.
I caught maybe 45 seconds of a BBC World News report when I was channel flipping after the debate. All I caught was one sentence claiming Donald Trump as the currently projected winner of the Republican Nomination. I almost died laughing at that characterization. It seemed so delightfully ignorant of how everyone here actually views the situation.
Apparently, in the after debate interviews Trump is claiming he got all the tough questions like “Why are you a jerk to women?” and “When did you become a Republican?”
I hope that’s the end of Donald Trump. The guy is a clown.
Can’t kill a cockroach.
Perhaps he’ll crawl around. But I think there was so much damage done to him in this debate that he won’t even be able to run as a third party. I really do think he’s through, completely. He’ll hang around and try to resurrect his good name, but it won’t be much. I think he can now just be ignored without any worry.
Sadly, I did experience that moment when I was told to shut up by poll daddy. :)
Nice post. Trump won’t be going away even though came off less than stellar. Narcissism, we’ve had a big dose ever since Obama came on the scene. We can do better. In the man’s defense, his answers seemed far less scripted than the others who seemed to have had acting lessons. I kind of like seeing how folks think on their feet.
@A-Squared- re comment 12- I agree. When DeTocqueville toured America in the early nineteenth century he said the high rate of bankruptcies then occurring were a sign of economic dynamism.
Within two weeks Trump’s numbers will be about half. What do you think?
I watched Back to the Future II tonight. The montage scene in Biff World from the alternate future when Biff becomes a multimillionaire by gambling with the stolen sports almanac actually made me think of Donald Trump.
That’s very funny Mark.
If Trump supporters still embrace him after he threatened to run as a third party candidate, after his comments on single payer, and his total lack of substance there is little hope to knock him out of the race. Moreover, we should expect him to run as a third party candidate to elect Hillary and become crony in chief. Why? Why does George Soros do what he does?
Great analysis.
I’m surprised and disappointed that the first thing I saw this morning on Facebook was a conservative friend (and state rep in NH) touting that he loves Trump more than ever now. It is the “I’m not politically correct” sound byte that seems to have grabbed him. I woke up this morning more convinced than ever that Trump is a fraud and only in the race to spoil it for Republicans and let Hillary cruise into office. Sure, he spouts some nuggets that resonate with conservatives but when it comes to details and his plans he had fewest details of all of the 10 candidates on stage (17 if you count the earlier debate).
He never said he wouldn’t run as an independent. His quote was “If I’m the nominee I will pledge that I will not run as an independent”. Well, duh! If you are the nominee you don’t NEED to run as an independent. Its when you aren’t the nominee that people are afraid of.
I really thought this morning that the gig was going to be up with him and people will see that he is taking them for a ride. Obviously I was wrong. And I fear that a lot of my conservative friends will end up remorseful at some point down the road.
So Mr. Trump is telling America he’s running as a Republican because he uses the laws to get what he wants? I might be the only guy here who rather would have preferred to see him scourged by Mrs. Kelly in prime time, but even allowing for that, this guy is advertising the principles of a gangster. As previously, I will say now as well: Not the deeds of a gangster, at least not the violent stuff, but maybe NY real estate is not a school of nuns exactly. But the principles are terrible–you have to get what you want by using the laws. I do not often hear conservatives applauding that in Mr. Obama-
Before the debate I found him absurd. Now I find Donald Trump disgusting.
Wait, he gets worse-
Okay – in the late news in Australia we got about ten minutes on the Republican debate – six minutes of which focused on Donald Trump, and which opened with his declining to pledge that he wouldn’t run as an independent. There’s an element of ‘oh look a train crash’ to this, but fwiw.
Look to hear Mr. Trump declare war any time soon & set off a new fight for independence. He is one for the ages–& you all know what ages…
Trump has done too much harm already, republicans will loose 2016. Many people will see GOP as a party of brain-dead rednecks, because they supported him. More conservatives Americans will die every year, and more Latinos will be eligible and wont vote the party of Trump. Republicans need at least 40 percent of the Latino vote to win an election, Romney received just 23 percent. Latinos will despise any republican, even Rubio.
How familiar is your friend with the British healthcare system? I could literally send you stories. No one who praises that belongs on a Republican debate stage.
Although, if they did gladiatorial fights…
Trump’s behavior since the debate (both in his immediate interviews and in his Twitter feed) are as telling as anything he said in the evening’s exchange. He’s now in full character assassination mode. I have never seen such a petty, petulant, and self-aggrandizing person on the public stage … Oh wait … actually I have – almost every day for the past seven years. Apparently those qualities are no longer frowned upon by the American electorate.
A great many people like the fact he punches back.
Including throwing fistfuls of money at Dem politicians.
America is the country where people who vote GOP cannot bother with Mr. Perry, who is believed by many conservatives & GOP voters to have done good things for them for at least 14 years & who has dedicated himself to public service, but they like that Mr. Trump is punching back? This aspect of America is the most disgusting thing I’ve seen since I don’t know when. People who complain about Mr. Romney or the W Bush presidency should count their blessings, I think. I have hope that Americans will not long suffer this kind of humiliation & show their politicians, each other, & the world that they are serious about the people who have taken politics seriously. Everyone will look mighty foolish then. I hope people will not come to regret this enthusiasm for punching back; I hope, too, that it will not turn to hysteria if things should go bad-
Exactly Hewitt and Steyn’s point.
Punching back and flailing widely are two different things. “Punching back” in the context of civil discourse means responding forcefully and effectively to the arguments of one’s adversaries. Bristling at the slightest opposition to one’s position and descending into ad hominem attack are indicative of a weak intellect. As an aside, taking to Twitter to call Megyn Kelly a “bimbo” for asking questions that are “not nice” isn’t a very effective way to refute accusations of mysogyny.
Refute accusations? The man embodies the truth of them! He’s also a manly man, so he just re-tweeted instead of tweeting it himself–I mean, order people to do it… Or so I heard, about the tweeting-
Puh-lease. Its only Ad Hominem when the other guy does it.
The lack of self-awareness here is epic.
No, what’re ya talmbout? Mrs. Kelly had it coming, conservatives or Republican voters as polled in support of Mr. Trump were just waiting for the man to come along with the wit & vim to tell her, he could be not so nice with her, she has it coming…