The Not-So-Protestant Work Ethic

 

398px-Grant_Wood_-_American_Gothic_-_Google_Art_ProjectIs “the Protestant work ethic” a myth?  Isn’t it really an Anglophile work ethic? Or perhaps it’s a German work ethic (English culture originating from old Germanic / North European tribes). Is the term often applied to the growing Protestant communities in South America, Africa, and Asia?

After the many discussions on Ricochet of salvation by “faith alone” — a belief ultimately shared by Catholics, strangely enough — it seems that defining assertion would, if anything lead to lazier peoples, not more productive ones. There are other differences between Catholics and Protestants, of course. But that one has always been primary.

There have been statistics cited here before showing common incidence of poverty and corruption in Catholic nations. But, as I recall, none of those nations are derived from British culture.

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  1. user_189393 Inactive
    user_189393
    @BarkhaHerman

    Look at #10 & #12.

    tumblr_n53kvs9Iuk1tu5un5o1_1280

    (bigger image here)

    • #31
  2. Fricosis Guy Listener
    Fricosis Guy
    @FricosisGuy

    skipsul:

    ctlaw:It would be interesting to consider Catholic v. Protestant productivity in the German-speaking world. This seems to offer a decent sample size of both Catholics and Protestants. Also, there is no tropical climate in Germany to blame any region’s lack of productivity on.

    Had a sociology prof in college who defined it not even as a Mediterranean split per se (much less a Protestant vs. Catholic one), but more as a Germano / Celtic vs. Roman split. The areas which retained Roman (including Romano-Byzantine) culture and law (including the Justinian updates) are the areas with a different work ethic culture. If you look at the cultural split on a map, it pairs up rather well with a map of Byzantine rule from the Justinian reconquest or what remained of it after about 100 years (by which time the Byzantines had lost most of northern Italy). The work ethic cultures of German Protestants, German Catholics, Catholic Poles, Catholic or Protestant northern France, etc., are all rather similar.

    Excellent. My Reformation professor used to dump on Weber by asking why Bavaria was one of the richer big Länder? It should have been the poorest by this reckoning.

    • #32
  3. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Barkha Herman:Look at #10 & #12.

    tumblr_n53kvs9Iuk1tu5un5o1_1280

    (bigger image here)

    That map bears a post all its own.  Don’t have time to really study it now, but that’s fascinating.

    • #33
  4. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    I’m not sure if those maps verify my proposal that climate is more significant than theology or if they suggest beer is the key to prosperity (#6).

    • #34
  5. iWc Coolidge
    iWc
    @iWe

    Severely Ltd.:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake: Doesn’t seem laughable to me. What’s laughable about considering the negative impact of your beliefs? It’s something reasonable, reflective people do.

    You stole a base there broadening religion to beliefs. I don’t recall anyone on Ricochet admitting that their religion led to bad outcomes such as engendering laziness (Aaron’s example), but maybe I missed it.

    Judaism leads to all kinds of bad outcomes. I have written on them before. A favorite example: “Jewish Intellectual Disease” – the ailment that affects people who think that they can make a perfect decision if they just wait long enough to collect sufficient data.

    • #35
  6. Severely Ltd. Inactive
    Severely Ltd.
    @SeverelyLtd

    iWe:

    Severely Ltd.:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake: Doesn’t seem laughable to me. What’s laughable about considering the negative impact of your beliefs? It’s something reasonable, reflective people do.

    You stole a base there broadening religion to beliefs. I don’t recall anyone on Ricochet admitting that their religion led to bad outcomes such as engendering laziness (Aaron’s example), but maybe I missed it.

    Judaism leads to all kinds of bad outcomes. I have written on them before. A favorite example: “Jewish Intellectual Disease” – the ailment that affects people who think that they can make a perfect decision if they just wait long enough to collect sufficient data.

    I did miss those posts. To your point, Jews have my every sympathy for the way that they are and have been historically persecuted, but I can’t get too teared up over their brains, motivation and talent in the arts. In fact, I’ll take some of that please. Besides, aren’t you talking about a trait that is more genetic than religious?

    • #36
  7. iWc Coolidge
    iWc
    @iWe

    Severely Ltd.:

    iWe:Judaism leads to all kinds of bad outcomes. I have written on them before. A favorite example: “Jewish Intellectual Disease” – the ailment that affects people who think that they can make a perfect decision if they just wait long enough to collect sufficient data.

    I did miss those posts.

    I discussed this in some of Claire’s posts, since hers is an archetypal case.

    To your point, Jews have my every sympathy for the way that they are and have been historically persecuted, but I can’t get too teared up over their brains, motivation and talent in the arts. In fact, I’ll take some of that please. Besides, aren’t you talking about a trait that is more genetic than religious?

    We prioritize education above just about everything else. And that leads to an overemphasis on intellect and its powers. This is cultural, part-and-parcel with the religion. It is not necessarily genetic.

    • #37
  8. Severely Ltd. Inactive
    Severely Ltd.
    @SeverelyLtd

    iWe:

    Severely Ltd.:

    iWe:Judaism leads to all kinds of bad outcomes. I have written on them before. A favorite example: “Jewish Intellectual Disease” – the ailment that affects people who think that they can make a perfect decision if they just wait long enough to collect sufficient data.

    I did miss those posts.

    I discussed this in some of Claire’s posts, since hers is an archetypal case.

    To your point, Jews have my every sympathy for the way that they are and have been historically persecuted, but I can’t get too teared up over their brains, motivation and talent in the arts. In fact, I’ll take some of that please. Besides, aren’t you talking about a trait that is more genetic than religious?

    We prioritize education above just about everything else. And that leads to an overemphasis on intellect and its powers. This is cultural, part-and-parcel with the religion. It is not necessarily genetic.

    Not necessarily maybe, but it is. Who are you kidding?

    • #38
  9. user_904 Thatcher
    user_904
    @RobertDammers

    Titus Techera:So far as I know, the Protestant ethic to do with work is the invention of one man alone, Max Weber. I am surprised that no one has yet said that this guy had no idea whereof he speaks. I invite you to find his commentary on Ben Franklin–he finds morality there, where none had even thought to seek it before!

    BBC Radio 4’s excellent “In Our Time” series discussed Max Weber’s “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism” last year.  The podcast version still seems to be available (though there may be issues for those outside the UK – sorry if that happens) here.

    • #39
  10. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    Fricosis Guy:

    Excellent. My Reformation professor used to dump on Weber by asking why Bavaria was one of the richer big Länder? It should have been the poorest by this reckoning.

    Similarly, the German state of Baden-Württemberg is more Catholic than Protestant (4.1 million Catholics vs 3.6 million Protestants), but it (and the “dumb Swabians” inhabit it) is a powerhouse of industry. Baden-Württemberg’s motto is “Wir können alles. Außer Hochdeutsch”: that is, “We can do anything. Except speak proper German”, referring to the great ferment of industrial and economic activity that takes place there, despite the inhabitants speaking what’s perceived as a country-bumpkin dialect.

    Swabians have a reputation for being the Scots of Germany – thrifty and industrious. This despite their relatively high propensity for Catholicism.

    • #40
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