Do We Even Have A Foreign Policy?

 

imageEven The New York Times is piling on Susan Rice for this — so perhaps it’s unnecessary to pose the question — but her comments strike me as so wondrously stupid and terrifying that I’ve got to wonder whether there could be any charitable or vaguely reassuring way of reading it:

[Rice] was peppered with critiques of the president’s Syria and China policies, as well as the White House’s delays in releasing a national security strategy, a congressionally mandated document that sets out foreign policy goals. On that last point, Ms. Rice had a sardonic reply.

“If we had put it out in February or April or July,” she said, according to two people who were in the room, “it would have been overtaken by events two weeks later, in any one of those months.”

I get that she was being sardonic. I get it that this is not what she literally and officially thinks about this. But she’s an experienced public official who knew this would make the front page of The New York Times. It would therefore seem that she knowingly told the whole world — and not entirely in jest — the United States no longer has foreign policy goals because there have been a series of crises in the past year. Oh, and by the way, to hell with Congress.

Does that sound as epically mad to you as it does to me? Is there any way her comment could have been funny and appropriate at the time, or that she could have thought, reasonably, that it would never leak? I suppose it’s possible that I’ve lost my sense of proportion and this actually makes perfect sense. But even The New York Times is freaking out, so I fear it’s every bit as Under-the-Reign-of-Elagabalus as it sounds.

 

Published in Foreign Policy, General
Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 69 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    No.

    (This was too easy . . .)

    • #31
  2. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    CuriousKevmo: Exactly.  The strategy would/should be enduring.  That tactics might not make it through the week, but if the strategy doesn’t then it isn’t a strategy. And Bush was the dumb one because he had a strategery.

    If strategy should be enduring, then what’s the need for a new “strategy” document every year?

    It should look the same as the one from the previous year.

    Incidentally, they all do :)

    And incidentally, they all say nothing of substance, because this is perhaps the most meaningless document in existence.

    US strategy isn’t established by a pointless document. It wasn’t in GWB’s time, when just as many national security strategy reports were filed as under Obama. Nor is it now.

    PS: Even if we take for granted the assumption that the US “lacks a strategy” (despite how unreasonable such a assumption may be): what is the alternative the GOP proposes here?

    Because I’ve heard the GOP support, and then oppose, virtually all of its recommendations on foreign policy. Bomb Assad, bomb Assad’s opponents. Arm the Syrian rebels, bomb the Syrian rebels. Support the Arab Spring  oppose the Arab Spring. Bomb Qaddafi, bomb those who replaced Qaddafi. And on and on.

    Consistency, apparently, is not important when you’re the one making the criticisms.

    • #32
  3. CuriousKevmo Inactive
    CuriousKevmo
    @CuriousKevmo

    AIG:

    CuriousKevmo: Exactly. The strategy would/should be enduring. That tactics might not make it through the week, but if the strategy doesn’t then it isn’t a strategy. And Bush was the dumb one because he had a strategery.

    If strategy should be enduring, then what’s the need for a new “strategy” document every year?

    It should look the same as the one from the previous year.

    Incidentally, they all do :)

    And incidentally, they all say nothing of substance, because this is perhaps the most meaningless document in existence.

    US strategy isn’t established by a pointless document. It wasn’t in GWB’s time, when just as many national security strategy reports were filed as under Obama. Nor is it now.

    PS: Even if we take for granted the assumption that the US “lacks a strategy” (despite how unreasonable such a assumption may be): what is the alternative the GOP proposes here?

    Because I’ve heard the GOP support, and then oppose, virtually all of its recommendations on foreign policy. Bomb Assad, bomb Assad’s opponents. Arm the Syrian rebels, bomb the Syrian rebels. Support the Arab Spring oppose the Arab Spring. Bomb Qaddafi, bomb those who replaced Qaddafi. And on and on.

    Consistency, apparently, is not important when you’re the one making the criticisms.

    uh…wow…you seemed to have assigned quite a straw man to me there so you could bat it down.  Unpleasant to say the least.

    • #33
  4. user_82762 Inactive
    user_82762
    @JamesGawron

    Claire,

    ..hmmmm… let’s see.  No Foreign Policy, No Budget, No Border…why yes their seems to be a pattern here.  No answers for IRS, Benghazi, Fast & Furious, Bergdahl Deal, Obamacare lies,…etc.

    Mr. Nobody

    BY ANONYMOUS

    I know a funny little man
    As quiet as a mouse,
    Who does the mischief that is done
    In everybody’s house!
    There’s no one ever sees his face,
    And yet we all agree
    That every plate we break was cracked
    By Mr. Nobody.
    ’Tis he who always tears out books
    Who leaves the door ajar,
    He pulls the buttons from our shirts,
    And scatters pins afar;
    That squeaking door will always squeak,
    For prithee, don’t you see,
    We leave the oiling to be done
    By Mr. Nobody.
    He puts damp wood upon the fire
    That kettles cannot boil;
    His are the feet that bring in mud,
    And all the carpets soil.
    The papers always are mislaid;
    Who had them last, but he?
    There’s no one tosses them about
    But Mr. Nobody.
    The finger marks upon the door
    By none of us are made;
    We never leave the blinds unclosed,
    To let the curtains fade.
    The ink we never spill;   the boots
    That lying round you see
    Are not our boots,—they all belong
    To Mr. Nobody.
    Claire, I knew it all along, Mr. Nobody is running the country.
    Whew! That’s a relief. For a moment there I thought……………………..
    Regards,
    Jim
    • #34
  5. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    @Swatter- “Then you have a President, who by definition is Muslim, get schooled by a gent in Hawaii named Davis and later, in Chicago by a terrorist named Ayers.”

    Given his background as a Harvard English major, at a time when university English departments were pushing postmodernism, and his contempt for those who “cling to guns and religion,” I strongly suspect he is a postmodern atheist with Marxist leanings.

    • #35
  6. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    CuriousKevmo: uh…wow…you seemed to have assigned quite a straw man to me there so you could bat it down.  Unpleasant to say the least.

    A logical extension of your argument, is a “straw man”?

    I learn something new every day!

    • #36
  7. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I think we have a wonderful foreign policy. We let five Taliban generals out of Guantanamo. Meanwhile, we withdraw our military personnel from Afghanistan and leave a generous stockpile of equipment and materiel for the repatriated kind-hearted generals.

    • #37
  8. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    MarciN: We let five Taliban generals out of Guantanamo. Meanwhile, we withdraw our military personnel from Afghanistan and leave a generous stockpile of equipment and materiel for the repatriated kind-hearted generals.

    Well, then the generals will need fighters. We can help with that, too. We’ve got 149 of ’em at Gitmo that President Obama would like to send to join the ones he’s already donated.

    • #38
  9. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    rico:

    MarciN: We let five Taliban generals out of Guantanamo. Meanwhile, we withdraw our military personnel from Afghanistan and leave a generous stockpile of equipment and materiel for the repatriated kind-hearted generals.

    Well, then the generals will need fighters. We can help with that, too. We’ve got 149 of ‘em at Gitmo that President Obama would like to send to join the ones he’s already donated.

    This just gets better.

    I would love to feel proud of the contributions the United States makes to the world, but every time there are Democrats in office, they leave nothing but death and destruction behind them. As bad as they are inside our country, they are way worse outside. No wonder everyone hates us. I don’t blame them. And I pity the next Republican president. And it will be a Republican–I know that because the mess is soooo big now.

    • #39
  10. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    MarciN: And I pity the next Republican president. And it will be a Republican–I know that because the mess is soooo big now.

    Don’t be too sure. Elizabeth Clinton an answer for big messes.

    Her mentor says it best:

    • #40
  11. user_358258 Inactive
    user_358258
    @RandyWebster

    Casey:Hold on… I have to pause for a moment…

    [Rice] was peppered

    Delicious. OK, back to the post.

    I’ve just finished reading the “Thirteen Gun Salute” where Abdul truly was peppered. Even Susan Rice doesn’t deserve that.

    • #41
  12. CuriousKevmo Inactive
    CuriousKevmo
    @CuriousKevmo

    AIG:

    CuriousKevmo: uh…wow…you seemed to have assigned quite a straw man to me there so you could bat it down. Unpleasant to say the least.

    A logical extension of your argument, is a “straw man”?

    I learn something new every day!

    I didn’t say anything of the things you ascribed to me.  Not one.  Not sure how that is a logical extension, but then I’ve seen you use this tactic many times.

    • #42
  13. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Percival:neutral observer I just think Obama has never come into contact with or been part of any competent organization or effort.

    Hey, he was elected to the Illinois Senate!And the United States Senate!

    So… umm… yeah.I got nuttin’.

    Don’t forget his years organizing communities.

    • #43
  14. user_82762 Inactive
    user_82762
    @JamesGawron

    Devereaux:

    James Gawron:

    tabula rasa:

    James Gawron:Claire,

    Here is my scale for Women in Politics. Sorry if this seems sexist but it is the only way I am able to hold onto sanity with all of the false ideological gender obsessions running loose.

    10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

    Margaret Thatcher Indira Ghandi

    Susan Rice is seriously messing up my political science (Where is Groseclose when I need him?) Rice continues to drive her numbers down and I am forced to extend the scale into the negative range. Please ask Groseclose if this is allowed or am I dead when the peer review starts.

    Regards,

    Jim

    I’d rate Golda Meir at 9.5. Hillary has already demonstrated that she’ll be in the 1-2 range.

    tr,

    I hate to admit it but I don’t rate Golda that high. She was an extremely effective ambassador in the early years when Israel hung by a thread. She, of course, was adored by the Israeli public. However, the Prime Minister’s job involves being commander in chief in war. She did not perform 100% in this. Also, in economics she continued the Israeli socialist pattern without much new creative free enterprise activity. Overall I would still give her a 7 especially because of her early work. (Mrs. Thatcher is 10).

    We are in full agreement about Hillary. She has all the ingredients of Indira Ghandi.

    Regards,

    Jim

    You have to give her some points for turning the Mossad loose after the olympic killers.

    Dev,

    OK Ok, I’ll go to 7.5, especially if I can scrape the .5 points off the hide of a certain arrogant left wing American Jewish film maker who should have known better than to dis the mossad.

    Regards,

    Jim

    PS  Love the A10

    • #44
  15. user_645 Member
    user_645
    @Claire

    AIG:

    Claire Berlinski: I suppose it’s possible that I’ve lost my sense of proportion and this actually makes perfect sense

    Yes, its possible. In fact, it’s likely.

    While we’re all so busy throwing around political cliches, which however deserved, are devoid of any actual analysis, facts or perspective…here’s some points to ponder:

    1) In the 8 years of the Bush presidency, the White House released…2 (TWO) [DOS] “National Security Strategy Reports”.

    Strange how GWB was never accused of lacing a “national security strategy’ for the 8 years he was in office.

    2) GWB’s 2006 National Security Strategy Report mentions Russia 17 times. Most of the times Russia is mentioned as a “partner” with whom the US is working on issues such as WTO, democratic reforms, fighting terrorism or pressuring Iran and DPRK to comply. Never is Russia mentioned as a geopolitical threat etc.

    2 years later, of course, Russia invaded Georgia, a close US ally. There was no US response.

    3) China is mentioned 28 times. Most of the times it is mentioned as a “partner” in various causes, WTO and market oriented reforms, and the only indication of anything wrong between US and China relations in strategic terms is the “lack of transparency in China’s military growth.

    So where is the China strategy from GWB here?

    4) These National Security Strategy Reports mean nothing, because they say nothing of any substance. They can all be summarized in a couple of sentences: we work with partners towards greater stability, prosperity and peace.

    5) Did the US lack a “national security strategy” prior to 1987, which was the first time such a document was released?

    6) Did GWB also say “to hell with congress” when he also didn’t release any national security strategy reports?

    So, how about applying a consistent logic throughout, and apply these same criticism to Republican administrations as well? How does this logic and criticism stand up?

    PS: Of course, the deeper question is, what should the US’s strategy be towards Russia, or China? Because criticizing that a meaningless and pointless document which says nothing, says nothing about our strategy towards these countries…is a “critique” which anyone can make. But it’s a pointless critique. Nor have I see any…alternatives…from the GOP side, other than a few “shoot from the hip” arguments which are far from realistic.

    Nor is it evident that the US has had a different strategy towards these tow countries over the Clinton, Bush or Obama years…other than our strategy to promote democracy, stability and institutional convergence with the West in those countries.

    Nor is it evident why there should be a different strategy towards them.

    Very good response and good points. For those curious, here’s the archive of National Security Strategies:

    http://nssarchive.us

    And some thoughts upon my further contemplation:

    1. Congress insisted it wanted this in 1986, and from then on, received it annually and apparently more-or-less on time until 1999; we’re got two skipped years under Bush 1, two under Clinton, and then, as you say–Bush more or less ignored it.

    2. Is it probably a dumb and useless document and why bother anyway? No, it shouldn’t be. This should be part of the way foreign policy is shaped, for obvious reasons–we want Congress involved in some oversight capacity, and this is about the level we want it, right?

    3. Is it a hypocrisy/incoherent to be more concerned that this is being ignored now than it was under Bush? Probably.

    let’s separate that from the questions of ..

    4) What’s going on with this Administration’s morale? Did you ever have the feeling–even if it was true–that the Bush Administration was just signalling to the world, “We give up here, it’s just all too hard?” Which is what this as-much-as-on-the-record comment says to me. But maybe that’s me: that’s a real possibility.

    and

    5) Is the most recent document stupid,

    and

    6) Is our foreign policy in fact stupid (5-6 are analytically separate and independent sources of concern)

    –I think to the extent I remain pretty alarmed by this news item specifically, it has to do with 4 and what strikes me as the dumbness of saying that. It’s just something leaders don’t say–even if it’s true.

    • #45
  16. user_645 Member
    user_645
    @Claire

    By the way, for those of you who have a few hours to think about this question …

    I of course got curious and started reading the old National Security Strategies in light of the question, “Is this a totally dumb document, anyway?”

    Here’s the summary description of the first one, under Reagan:

    Summary: Because it was the first report, with a deadline only shortly after the passage of the Goldwater-Nichols Act, the 1987 report was rushed and only reflected then-current strategic thinking. It made little or no attempt to describe the means of integrating the various tools of statecraft available to national security planners. Instead, it strong emphasized military instruments of power. Additionally, it made no attempt to document, much less integrate strategy across geographic regions. (Snider, 7).

    That sounds a bit snide and dismissive, don’t you think? “Rushed,” “no attempt,” etc.

    Well, tell me what you think when you read it:

    http://nssarchive.us/NSSR/1987.pdf

    And ask these questions of yourself:

    1) Was it worth it to explain this strategy to Congress?

    2) Was this, in fact, the strategy pursued by the Administration in 1987?

    3) If so, what’s the verdict of history on this strategy?

    I have to say, I wouldn’t have written such a dismissive description.

    If I’ve got the time, I’ll keep reading them–I’ve probably read at least parts of most of them before, but couldn’t for the life of me really remember what they really say. (That doesn’t mean they had no effect on me: that’s something different. And it doesn’t mean I’m neutral on the subject of whether my elected representatives know or care what they say.)

    • #46
  17. user_645 Member
    user_645
    @Claire

    One last comment–if anyone here from time to time asks him or herself, “Am I being unfair to the Obama administration,” “Am I applying double-standards,” “Is the problem simply that I don’t remember that things used to be as bad or worse?”-(and I submit that all fair-minded people should regularly ask such questions of themselves), I present to you the 2010 strategy:

    http://nssarchive.us/?page_id=8

    I will make no specific argument about it. I simply ask you to compare 1987 and 2010, side by side. There’s a range of possibilities, really, from A-Z: A. We are all suffering from extreme cognitive bias, hypocrisy, hysteria, and the effects of groupthink; Z. We’re doomed.

    What’s your verdict, after looking at them both? Hard (impossible) to control for personal bias, but perhaps interesting if you’re consulting your own conscience.

    • #47
  18. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    A document purporting to be foreign policy strategy would be as anodyne as possible.

    No one who actually has a strategy would publicly publish a document explaining that strategy, unless one is convinced that one’s adversaries are illiterate.  If you know of anyone who doesn’t see why that would be, I would like to set up a poker date with them.  Tell them to bring all of my their money.

    • #48
  19. swatter Inactive
    swatter
    @swatter

    TeamAmerica:@Swatter- “Then you have a President, who by definition is Muslim, get schooled by a gent in Hawaii named Davis and later, in Chicago by a terrorist named Ayers.”

    Given his background as a Harvard English major, at a time when university English departments were pushing postmodernism, and his contempt for those who “cling to guns and religion,” I strongly suspect he is a postmodern atheist with Marxist leanings.

    Yes, Team, I do suspect he is more atheist than anything. When he was member of Rev. Wright’s church, that doesn’t mean he went to church. It was only used as a prop for his ambitions.

    I don’t know much about Marxist leanings, but I think it is more basic like anti-colonial leanings learned from study of his father’s and mother’s and Davis’ radical leanings.

    • #49
  20. swatter Inactive
    swatter
    @swatter

    Clare, I wasn’t part of your first writings on ricochet, so I didn’t know what the readers were weeping about when you quit for a time.

    However, this article you wrote and your questions really clears things up. You are quite talented on asking questions that require you to think.

    Thank you.

    Generically, Obama is one strange duck. I can’t figure him out. I have asked Milt Rosenberg (who told me to Google Epstein and Obama) and I have listened to Carol Platt Lebieu (who was editor of Harvard Law Review after Obama and has some interesting stories).

    Anyways, can it be as simple as Epstein’s take on Obama- he listens but ignores, and like Chinese food, two hours later you are hungry (or wonder what Obama believes in the first place).

    I totally want to disagree with these assessments, but lately, I am wondering if Epstein didn’t just nail it.

    • #50
  21. user_82762 Inactive
    user_82762
    @JamesGawron

    Claire Berlinski:One last comment–if anyone here from time to time asks him or herself, “Am I being unfair to the Obama administration,” “Am I applying double-standards,” “Is the problem simply that I don’t remember that things used to be as bad or worse?”-(and I submit that all fair-minded people should regularly ask such questions of themselves), I present to you the 2010 strategy:

    http://nssarchive.us/?page_id=8

    I will make no specific argument about it. I simply ask you to compare 1987 and 2010, side by side. There’s a range of possibilities, really, from A-Z: A. We are all suffering from extreme cognitive bias, hypocrisy, hysteria, and the effects of groupthink; Z. We’re doomed.

    What’s your verdict, after looking at them both? Hard (impossible) to control for personal bias, but perhaps interesting if you’re consulting your own conscience.

    Claire,

    2010

    These efforts to advance security and prosperity are enhanced by our support for certain values that are universal. Nations that respect human rights and democratic values are more successful and stronger partners, and individuals who enjoy such respect are more able to achieve their full potential. The United States rejects the false choice between the narrow pursuit of our interests and an endless campaign to impose our values. Instead, we see it as fundamental to our own interests to support a just peace around the world—one in which individuals, and not just nations, are granted the fundamental rights that they deserve.

    1987

    •Commitment to the goals of world freedom, peace and prosperity ;

    • Strong and close relationships with our Alliance partners around the world ;

    • Active assistance to those who are struggling for their own self-determination, freedom, and a reasonable standard of living and development;

    Willingness to be realistic about the Soviet Union, to define publicly the crucial moral distinctions between totalitarianism and democracy;…

    I would say the two quotes in bold reveal the fundamental difference.  Reagan was able to “define publicly the crucial moral distinctions between totalitarianism and democracy”.  The Obama mentality doesn’t think that defining publicly the moral distinction has anything to do with it.  Instead magically we can jump to “rights which nations and individuals deserve”.  In short Obama inflates our mission end goal while being unable to define anything that we actually stand for.

    This is why I have personally come to the conclusion that defining Jihad as the enemy is so important.  Islam must take responsibility for itself.  It can not go on reserving for itself the right to make unlimited war on all non-Muslims.  There is an interpretation of Jihad that is mystical and reads the literal passages as referring to a personal internal struggle with evil.  It is not our place to comment on Islamic theology.  However, Jihad interpreted as it is in ISIS and a host of other genocidal groups is simply unacceptable.  It is a matter of self defense.

    This is the most I can glean from the two documents do to my own time constraints.  However, I don’t think that the documents are doing justice to our criticism of Obama.  Six years of experience tells us that this administration has no compass and is just reacting to events.  They are as willing to throw American long term interests under the bus, as they are willing to throw American Allies long term interest under the bus, as they are willing to throw individual Americans under the bus to avoid responsibility for their incompetence and lack of vision.

    In short, we are being fair.  In fact we are being overly fair.  Not to complain  but who is paying my rent while I sort this out. How much are the likes of Josh Earnest and Susan Rice being paid to perpetrate their hopeless grasping lack of clarity.  We can only stand to tolerate this level of parasitic governance so long.

    Sooner or later it’s the parasites that die or we do.  Sort of like Ebola.

    Regards,

    Jim


    • #51
  22. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Claire Berlinski:One last comment–if anyone here from time to time asks him or herself, “Am I being unfair to the Obama administration,” “Am I applying double-standards,” “Is the problem simply that I don’t remember that things used to be as bad or worse?”-(and I submit that all fair-minded people should regularly ask such questions of themselves), I present to you the 2010 strategy:

    http://nssarchive.us/?page_id=8

    I will make no specific argument about it. I simply ask you to compare 1987 and 2010, side by side. There’s a range of possibilities, really, from A-Z: A. We are all suffering from extreme cognitive bias, hypocrisy, hysteria, and the effects of groupthink; Z. We’re doomed.

    What’s your verdict, after looking at them both? Hard (impossible) to control for personal bias, but perhaps interesting if you’re consulting your own conscience.

    The only difference among the presidents would be what they actually acted upon. I assume the CIA had some input into whatever GW saw. The fact that he read it doesn’t mean he accepted it or that it affected his policy making.

    • #52
  23. user_645 Member
    user_645
    @Claire

    swatter:

    Clare, I wasn’t part of your first writings on ricochet, so I didn’t know what the readers were weeping about when you quit for a time.

    However, this article you wrote and your questions really clears things up. You are quite talented on asking questions that require you to think.

    Thank you.

    But as for the bigger question–how did we get from there to here?

    I’m stumped. And no one has ever explained it to my satisfaction.

    • #53
  24. Totus Porcus Inactive
    Totus Porcus
    @TotusPorcus

    Claire Berlinski:By the way, for those of you who have a few hours to think about this question …

    I of course got curious and started reading the old National Security Strategies in light of the question, “Is this a totally dumb document, anyway?”

    Here’s the summary description of the first one, under Reagan:

    That sounds a bit snide and dismissive, don’t you think? “Rushed,” “no attempt,” etc.

    Well, tell me what you think when you read it:

    http://nssarchive.us/NSSR/1987.pdf

    Two comments, Claire.

    1.  My bias:  I was directly involved in the drafting of the 1987 document.  As the first one in a contemplated series, think of it as the pilot for a new TV show.  Not all the characters are going to be fully developed.  Plot lines may not be fully fleshed out.  The writers may not agree on the direction(s) the show should take in the future.  But you should get a pretty good idea of what the show is about.

    The 87 document is a fair summary of the strategic national security view of the Reagan Administration, like it or not (and a lot of people, inside and outside of the government, did not).  Col. Snider, if I recall correctly, was one of the NSC staffers coordinating the conflicting views of the various agencies with input into the document.  Apparently he didn’t like how the sausage was made in 1987.

    2.    I doubt the process in the Obama Administration was better, and judging by the product, it’s worse.  If you compare the 1987 and 2010 documents, what strikes me about the 2010 document is (a) the “kitchen sink” drafting approach (b) the pervasive use of anodyne, empty euphemisms and (c) the almost obsessive need to reject Bush Administration policies.  For example:

    Strengthen the Power of Our Example
    More than any other action that we have taken, the power of America’s example has helped spread freedom and democracy abroad. That is why we must always seek to uphold these values not just when it is easy, but when it is hard. Advancing our interests may involve new arrangements to confront threats like terrorism, but these practices and structures must always be in line with our Constitution, preserve our people’s privacy and civil liberties, and withstand the checks and balances that have served us so well. To sustain our fidelity to our values—and our credibility to promote them around the world—we will continue to:
    Prohibit Torture without Exception or Equivocation: Brutal methods of interrogation are inconsistent with our values, undermine the rule of law, and are not effective means of obtaining information. They alienate the United States from the world. They serve as a recruitment and propaganda tool for terrorists. They increase the will of our enemies to fight against us, and endanger our troops when they are captured. The United States will not use or support these methods.
    Legal Aspects of Countering Terrorism: The increased risk of terrorism necessitates a capacity to detain and interrogate suspected violent extremists, but that framework must align with our laws to be effective and sustainable. When we are able, we will prosecute terrorists in Federal courts or in reformed military commissions that are fair, legitimate, and effective. For detainees who cannot be prosecuted—but pose a danger to the American people—we must have clear, defensible, and lawful standards. We must have fair procedures and a thorough process of periodic review, so that any prolonged detention is carefully evaluated and justified. And keeping with our Constitutional system, it will be subject to checks and balances. The goal is an approach that can be sustained by future Administrations, with support from both political parties and all three branches of government.

    It, like Obama, often seems to more concerned with telling you what it is not than what it is.  It’s not really a “national security strategy” document, it’s a codification of Obama speech soundbites about how he’s going to change America’s perception and role in the world.  It reflects the incoherence of the underlying policies and the thinking behind them.

    • #54
  25. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    Claire Berlinski: One last comment–if anyone here from time to time asks him or herself, “Am I being unfair to the Obama administration,” “Am I applying double-standards,” “Is the problem simply that I don’t remember that things used to be as bad or worse?”-(and I submit that all fair-minded people should regularly ask such questions of themselves), I present to you the 2010 strategy: http://nssarchive.us/?page_id=8 I will make no specific argument about it. I simply ask you to compare 1987 and 2010, side by side. There’s a range of possibilities, really, from A-Z: A. We are all suffering from extreme cognitive bias, hypocrisy, hysteria, and the effects of groupthink; Z. We’re doomed. What’s your verdict, after looking at them both?

    I’ll go with A…simply because it is the more likely explanation.

    Option Z I’ll leave for those who have a propensity to always say “we’re doomed” ;) (of whom we seem to have an abundance at Ricochet around election time)

    Sure, you can compare with the 1987 document. But compare to the 2006 document under Bush. 

    Same thing.

    So as I said earlier, why no criticism of Bush’s “foreign policy”, or lack thereof? (if we are to assume that the existence of such a document constitutes the existence of a foreign policy, while it’s absence shows the opposite)

    Bush’s 2006 report mentions nothing about Russia or China in any negative light (the 2010 report, at least, does to a small degree).

    Remember than only 2 years later, still under Bush’s presidency, Russia invaded Georgia and the US response (i.e. Bush’s) was…nothing. (compare the criticism against Obama in handling Ukraine, with that of Bush’s handling of Georgia.)

    But of course the broader point is that this document isn’t the “foreign policy” of the US. It’s a very meaningless document filled with stuff you can hear in any press conference on foreign policy on a daily basis. It says things which barely ever change over decades, never-mind years.

    • #55
  26. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    Now of course, there’s a more general critique made here about Obama’s foreign policy which isn’t related to this report. That being whether it’s the “right” one or not.

    Seems to me his foreign policy doesn’t differentiate from that of Bush very much at all…regardless of the talk. The US was going to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan anyway. Those countries were going to deteriorate anyway (as I said, Iraq was an Iranian proxy state long before Obama came around.) Bush wasn’t going to take any different approach to the Arab Spring or Libya or Syria. In fact, very many GOP leaders had/have exactly the same position as Obama on these issues.

    Bush’s stance on Russia was no different. He did nothing in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia. Obama’s response has equally been timid…but then again, what’s the alternative? Similarly with China. I don’t see any “softening” on China under Obama compared to previous administrations.

    Same on terrorism. How many…thousands…of drone strikes were carried out under this administration on terrorist targets in Yemen or Pakistan or Somalia or wherever they may have been?

    Everything seems more or less the same. And that seems to be because America’s foreign policy isn’t really subject to so much discretion from the President, as so many here seem to portray. It certainly doesn’t depend on a piece of paper issued every year.

    PS: Now I may disagree with many of the foreign policy stances under this administration, but I disagreed with them even when they were the same stances under Bush!

    • #56
  27. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    CuriousKevmo: I didn’t say anything of the things you ascribed to me.  Not one.  Not sure how that is a logical extension

    You said that the foreign policy strategy should be “enduring” and be robust enough to endure changes that may happen from year to year.

    I disagree with that somewhat (you can’t foresee things like ISIS, which change quite a big chunk of the strategy)…but if we take the “enduring” part of your argument, then the logical extension is: “why do we need a new document every year then?” It should look like the previous year’s one.

    And they do.

    • #57
  28. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    PS: Now I know a lot of people get caught up in the…minutia…of foreign policy. Some do it simply because they need to grasp on to something, anything, to criticize the “other guy” from the other Party.

    Like for example the criticisms that Obama has released Guantanamo detainees. Yes “he” has (he, as in this current administration. I don’t think the President makes these decisions).

    But so did Bush! http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18631363 Releasing Guantanamo detainees had been a standard practice long before Obama showed up! 

    How can we “accuse” the “other side” of lacking consistency in foreign policy, or of even having one, when many conservatives seem to flip-flop on virtually every issue in foreign policy?

    • #58
  29. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    AIG: But so did Bush! http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18631363 Releasing Guantanamo detainees had been a standard practice long before Obama showed up!

    These were not Taliban generals.

    • #59
  30. Totus Porcus Inactive
    Totus Porcus
    @TotusPorcus

    AIG:Like for example the criticisms that Obama has released Guantanamo detainees. Yes “he” has (he, as in this current administration. I don’t think the President makes these decisions).

    Seriously?  You think the US traded 5 top Taliban for a deserter and the President didn’t approve the trade?

    If this were true, I’m sure we would have read about his reaction when he read about the trade in the newspaper.

    • #60
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.