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Why I Rarely Argue About Israel and the Palestinians Anymore
Debating controversial issues is fun for some people; they like the fight and drama. Sometimes they actually have a dog in the fight. But frankly, I’m not a person who likes a fight, and I never have. I’m not afraid of controversy; in fact, sometimes I enjoy discussing controversial subjects when the dynamics are supportive.
But when it comes to the Israelis and the Palestinians, I have pretty much bowed out of those discussions, even though they are with people whom I consider to be my friends. I used to be willing to take on all challenges. It just doesn’t seem worth it anymore. Why, you may ask.
For me to enter a conflict-ridden discussion, I have to feel passionate about it. That certainly applies to Israel. I want to talk with people who I think are reasonable and count on reliable sources of information; this is where the subject gets dicey. There are hundreds if not thousands of sources that are on either side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I obviously believe in the veracity of the publications I read; people who disagree with me trust a whole other set of media. Positions are so polarized that even if there were room for learning, or possibly changing minds, no one is truly interested in that effort. We are simply too far apart.
The same criteria apply to almost any controversial topic: anything on the extreme political Left is most likely to differ drastically with the political Right: Wokeism, government spending, overreach by all branches of government, and the administrative state are just a few examples. The main problem, I believe, is not only are positions polarized, but we don’t believe we can learn anything meaningful from the other side. On the Right, we also question the Left’s motives, their commitment to truth, their understanding of the implications of their beliefs, and their willingness to generate practical compromises.
They only care about winning.
Which brings me back to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. We can argue about the history of the situation, the agendas of all sides, the potential for peace. But I just can’t get past one simple fact:
The Arabs/Palestinians want to drive the Israelis into the sea.
No matter whether a one or two-state solution is negotiated, they are angry, feel abused and injured. And those in charge are committed to destroying Israel and the Jews.
That’s a subject I refuse to contemplate.
[photo courtesy of unsplash.com]
Published in Foreign Policy
It brings to mind the time when I was practicing Zen Buddhism, and was invited to speak to a group of rabbis and cantors-in-training. They were curious about why I wasn’t practicing Judaism (although I hadn’t formally left). One person asked me if I was a self-hating Jew. I was surprised at my own reaction; I didn’t get defensive or angry. I said, no, I wasn’t a self-hating Jew; I had gravitated to Zen because I realized that I didn’t have a relationship with Judaism and found one in Zen. Then one fellow told me that if he spent an hour with me over coffee, he’d convince me to once again embrace Judaism; I thought he was incredibly arrogant and naive. But then, here I am!
I don’t disagree. But, in the comparison being made, my point is that Israel cannot have peace with an enemy who’s goal is their utter destruction.
True, that, but I would point out that they marinate their young in Jew hatred and what you marinate your young in affects them forever.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go take my kid to drag queen story hour – this week it’s When Aidan Became a Brother!
Let’s put African Americans and Neo-Nazis both at number four so they can get a good look at each other and the positions they share.
There are very few conflicts or disputes where one side is all right and the other side is all wrong. In the case under discussion here, one can be supportive of Israel , but still recognise that Palestinians have legitimate grievances and that there are factions in Israel who won’t countenance peaceful co-existence. Of course, far too many people see Israel as being the aggressor/occupier/murderer but will excuse any wrongdoing by Palestinians.
I don’t wish to appear to be overly sentimental or simplistic, but recognising flaws on one’s own side and wrongs suffered by the other side seems to me to be essential in moving towards some improvement in relations between the two sides.
You voice a common sense and practical solution. No matter what happens, they are going to share the general land area. Getting along will be central to their success.
This may be technically true, but you’ve got to admit that there is a gaping imbalance of morals here. The Palestinian side wants to either exterminate or at the very least, kick out all the Jews, while the Jewish side simply wants to be left alone and is willing to live with Arabs in peace.
There are lots of Arab nations and none of them have good human rights records. The nation in the Arab region with the best human rights record is Israel and yet Israel is treated as though it were China or North Korea.
Israel isn’t perfect. But compare Israel to Iran. In Iran you can get put into prison for making a video of you and your friends singing a song by the Bee Gees. In Israel, even if you are an Arab-Israeli, you can run for public office.
Israel would be better than it is if it were not targeted for destruction by Iran and others.
The problem is, while we can all feel good about ourselves for our civility admitting Israel’s flaws, the Palestinian leadership is utterly intractable in its stated goal of eliminating the Jewish state, and presumably the Jews along with it. I’m generally not a fan of the (moral) equivalency routine. I prefer making distinctions.
It should go without saying that Israel is flawed (only lefties expect perfection everywhere all the time). One of them is NOT the desire to eliminate its neighbors.
Yeah, what the hell, dude? I thought this was a debating society.
I support Israel unreservedly, sometimes to my personal cost. I feel sympathy for ordinary Palestinian civilians, who have been lead on a path of destruction by wicked leaders and by other evil forces, and who are used as a distraction by Muslim regimes who have failed their own people. As I have said, a lot of people and entities have a strong interest in prolonging the conflict.
For all of us, to some degree.
I really wish trauma brought out the best in groups, but it really doesn’t seem to.
Not the Nakba or occupation for Palestinians, not the Holocaust for Israeli Jews.
The problem is that a critical mass of Jews didn’t believe that they could live safely in diaspora, and that they turned out to be in many ways (or at least in Europe and then the Middle East) correct.
They wouldn’t. For all the bad mouthing they would much rather be dealing with Arafat and the PFLP (in fact they did deal with Arafat and the PFLP) than Hamas (with whom they refuse to deal).
What happens, unfortunately, is that because religious extremists are less vulnerable to material corruption they are the last ones left standing in the court of Palestinian public opinion. The least bad option.
When you’re occupying a people, then corrupt/corruptible leaders are exactly what you need, and exactly who you choose to deal with and empower. (Take the Palestinian Authority, for example….)
So short term gain (corruptible Palestinian leaders to bargain with about things like territory or the right of return or policing Palestinian resistance to settlers) for long term loss (secular politics diminishes, and religious crazies take centre stage, because they are the only ones who refuse to sell their people out for a mercedes benz and a green card).
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/06/peacemaking-stalinist-style.php
Good grief. But no surprise. Thanks, Bryan.
Susan, have you joined JewsAgainstSoros.com? Read about it here:
https://amgreatness.com/2023/06/11/we-are-jews-against-soros/
Thanks, WC. I’ve signed up. Not sure what they’ll be doing but I’m curious.