This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 94 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    So, Magic Internet Money turns out to be a scam that benefits Democrats. This is my surprised face.

    • #1
  2. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Doug Watt:

    Allegations are being made that financial aid sent to Ukraine might have been a money laundering scheme involving FTX and some politicians in Congress. Allegations are also being made that FTX accounts were ‘cracked’ and money taken from those accounts ended up in the campaign coffers of Democrat and some Republican candidates.

    How . . . not-at-all-shocking.

    Bankman-Fried is the second-largest donor to the Democratic Party, second only to Soros.

    And here are some details about the Ukraine scheme

    . . . It was also revealed that FTX had partnered with Ukraine to process donations to their war efforts within days of Joe Biden pledging billions of American taxpayer dollars to the country. Ukraine partnered with FTX as the Biden administration funneled funds to the invaded nation, and FTX then made massive donations to Democrats in the US.

    An article from the cryptocurrency news website Coindesk from March 15, 2022 reported that Ukraine partnered with FTX, and that “FTX is converting crypto contributions to Ukraine’s war effort into fiat for deposit at the National Bank of Ukraine.”

    And then billions just . . . disappeared.

    This could be very bad for Democrats. Or would be if someone bothered to investigate.

    Much more shady stuff at the link above.

    • #2
  3. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    Quibble: Cryptocurrency isn’t the villain here.  The whole point of crypto is that it shouldn’t require any “trusted 3rd party” to use it.  The villain here is a company that made money off the ignorance of people who didn’t understand that the company’s “services” are mostly unnecessary, even if the company had been honest.

    The scam could have been conducted nearly identically even if crypto didn’t exist, especially considering that it (allegedly) had the backing of the government of the United States.

    Blaming the existence of cryptocurrency for this scam is like blaming the existence of real estate for the 2008 financial crisis.

    Edited to take into account the fact that since the scam involved the exchange of crypto for cash, trusted third parties would indeed be necessary for that step in the scam.  That being said, one does not have to rely on a single company for exchanging one’s crypto for cash.  There are numerous cryptocurrency exchanges out there.

    • #3
  4. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Also . . .

    • #4
  5. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    “FTX is converting crypto contributions to Ukraine’s war effort into fiat for deposit at the National Bank of Ukraine.”

    Quibble: One cannot convert crypto into fiat currency.  One can only exchange crypto for fiat currency.  Crypto is an asset like gold or real estate or oil.  Once cannot convert such things into cash.

    • #5
  6. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    https://nypost.com/2022/11/14/sam-bankman-fried-broke-crypto-bank-for-dems/

    . . .

    Six weeks ago, Sequoia hired a freelance writer, Adam Fisher, to write a puff piece on SBF, depicting him as a “future trillionaire … I don’t know how I know, I just do. SBF is a winner … I couldn’t shake the feeling that this guy is actually as selfless as he claims to be.”

    The article, which was replaced on Sequoia’s website over the weekend with a somber note to investors, describes how SBF wowed Seqouia’s partners into giving him $1 billion during a Zoom meeting throughout which he played multiplayer online video game League of Legends.

    “I LOVE THIS FOUNDER,” typed one partner.

    “I am a 10 out of 10,” pinged another.

    “YES!!!” exclaimed a third.

    Fisher visited Bankman-Fried in the Bahamas, describing a man who does not make eye contact, plays video games all day and is constantly plugged into his computer with a headset. All his meetings are by Zoom — with people in the same room.

    The author concludes that the FTX founder is “neurodiverse,” but not “spectrum-y or Asperger-y.” SBF says he has “some ADD,” and never has read a book, as information should be in “a six-paragraph blog post.”

    The article describes Bankman-Fried’s recruitment into the EA cult when he was a young man at MIT as being “nerd-sniped,” which is “the practice of attracting brainpower by presenting problems as puzzles.”

    In other words, SBF’s analytical IQ and social ineptitude made him a prime recruit for the cause of hijacking capitalism to divert money to left-wing causes.

    Like Greta Thunberg, the teenage eco-evangelist, SBF was manipulated into serving a useful purpose.

    In his case, it was money made from nothing that arrived in Democratic coffers at exactly the right time.

    • #6
  7. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    It’s “harder” money that is really volatile. People want harder money because of bad public policy. Some people really need it in some crappy areas of the planet. The simple fact is, the effect of legal tender laws is almost at sketchy as cryptocurrency.

    #3 is perfectly stated.

    • #7
  8. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    @AlderLaneEggs

    is informative. 

     

    • #8
  9. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Doug Watt: In my opinion Crypto Currency investing is somewhat sketchy,

    crypto as investment is very sketchy.  It is downright reckless to give money to someone else to do it for you.

    • #9
  10. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    “FTX is converting crypto contributions to Ukraine’s war effort into fiat for deposit at the National Bank of Ukraine.”

    Quibble: One cannot convert crypto into fiat currency. One can only exchange crypto for fiat currency. Crypto is an asset like gold or real estate or oil. Once cannot convert such things into cash.

    In the context of finance it is clear that “conversion” is exchange and not alchemy.

    • #10
  11. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Re – “Crypto is an asset like gold or real estate”

    Really?   Or is it more like Dutch tulip bulbs or accounts with Bernie Madoff or Kingdom of Russia bonds?

    • #11
  12. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    The whole thing needs to be investigated.

    If “Ukraine” then “corruption” doesn’t work for me. They don’t have to be involved for this to stink. They were involved to the extent that they set up an account whereby crypto donations could be deposited for their benefit. The donors need to be checked up on. If all Ukraine was doing was drawing on funds that they understood to be donations, they might not know anything more than that.

    The other donors though … who might they be?

    That picture is from back in September, I believe.  The site I found it on is here.

    • #12
  13. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    So, Magic Internet Money turns out to be a scam that benefits Democrats. This is my surprised face.

    I would argue that American currency is also a scam that benefits Democrats.

    Or perhaps I’m being too cynical?

    • #13
  14. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    So, Magic Internet Money turns out to be a scam that benefits Democrats. This is my surprised face.

    I would argue that American currency is also a scam that benefits Democrats.

    Or perhaps I’m being too cynical?

    100%

    You can’t expect conservatism and libertarianism to sell or work under this Fed regime and financial system. 

    • #14
  15. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    It’s not “currency” if you can’t spend it most everywhere.  Very few establishments accept cryptocurrency.  It’s a commodity, and trades as such, with huge moves up and down on a daily basis.  The big difference between crypto and commodities is that a commodity is tangible and useful in everyday life.  Crypto is simply ones and zeros in “cyberspace”, with no uses outside finance.  The fact that people actually believe in and use such a thing is curious.  I have always been very skeptical of crypto, and the stories bear out my skepticism.

    • #15
  16. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    “FTX is converting crypto contributions to Ukraine’s war effort into fiat for deposit at the National Bank of Ukraine.”

    Quibble: One cannot convert crypto into fiat currency. One can only exchange crypto for fiat currency. Crypto is an asset like gold or real estate or oil. Once cannot convert such things into cash.

    In the context of finance it is clear that “conversion” is exchange and not alchemy.

    I don’t think it’s clear to as many people as one might think, least of all whoever wrote that sentence.

    • #16
  17. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Doug Watt: Allegations are not proof of wrongdoing; an investigation needs to take place.

    Is anyone still naive enough to believe the Justice Department is still some kind of non-partisan, non-corrupt organization that can do anything other than a coverup for their bosses?

    As for political donations, here is a list.

    $15,000,000 to a Republican group called American Dream Federal Action; $2,750,000 to Kevin McCarthy; and $2,500,000 to Mitch McConnell.

    So it’s actually less than 80%.

    So what is the incentive of the political class that is pro-war and completely corrupt to get to the bottom of this? Their incentive is to cover this up and to put regulations on cryptocurrency to increase their power.

    Is the mysterious death of Nikolai Mukhgyan part of a coverup?

    The other thing: would FTX have ever gotten to the point without  CIA involvement and cover?  This is classic CIA.

    • #17
  18. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    So, Magic Internet Money turns out to be a scam that benefits Democrats. This is my surprised face.

    I would argue that American currency is also a scam that benefits Democrats.

    Or perhaps I’m being too cynical?

    100%

    You can’t expect conservatism and libertarianism to sell or work under this Fed regime and financial system.

    This is the simple version 

    http://financialrepressionauthority.com/2017/07/26/the-roundtable-insight-george-bragues-on-how-the-financial-markets-are-influenced-by-politics/

    • #18
  19. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    It’s not “currency” if you can’t spend it most everywhere. Very few establishments accept cryptocurrency. It’s a commodity, and trades as such, with huge moves up and down on a daily basis. The big difference between crypto and commodities is that a commodity is tangible and useful in everyday life. Crypto is simply ones and zeros in “cyberspace”, with no uses outside finance. The fact that people actually believe in and use such a thing is curious. I have always been very skeptical of crypto, and the stories bear out my skepticism.

    Back in the day, it was tulips. At least back then you could have a garden. 

    • #19
  20. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    It’s not “currency” if you can’t spend it most everywhere. Very few establishments accept cryptocurrency. It’s a commodity, and trades as such, with huge moves up and down on a daily basis. The big difference between crypto and commodities is that a commodity is tangible and useful in everyday life. Crypto is simply ones and zeros in “cyberspace”, with no uses outside finance. The fact that people actually believe in and use such a thing is curious. I have always been very skeptical of crypto, and the stories bear out my skepticism.

    You can move it around really easy. That adds value, but in general I agree with what you are saying.

    • #20
  21. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    Hang On (View Comment):
    The big difference between crypto and commodities is that a commodity is tangible and useful in everyday life. Crypto is simply ones and zeros in “cyberspace”, with no uses outside finance.

    Lots and lots and lots of software and data that are “simply ones and zeroes” can be extremely useful in everyday life.  In fact, they are often much more useful in everyday life than gold is for the average person.

    However, just because this software/data is useful to oneself does not mean it would be useful to anybody else, hence one would be hard pressed to exchange this software/data for currency.

    Intrinsic usefulness is not the only source of value.  A commodity’s value is tied to what one can do with it AND/OR what one can exchange it for.

    Furthermore, use cases vary according to the commodity AS WELL AS the user.  For example, diamonds are a very useful commodity for some people in some situations while being virtually useless for other people in other situations.  And yet both sets of people tend to recognize that diamonds have value.

    The idea that one can define a commodity’s value across all use cases and across all users is one of the great fallacies of marxism.

    • #21
  22. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    The big difference between crypto and commodities is that a commodity is tangible and useful in everyday life. Crypto is simply ones and zeros in “cyberspace”, with no uses outside finance.

    Lots and lots and lots of software and data that are “simply ones and zeroes” can be extremely useful in everyday life. In fact, they are often much more useful in everyday life than gold is for the average person.

    However, just because this software/data is useful to oneself does not mean it would be useful to anybody else, hence one would be hard pressed to exchange this software/data for currency.

    Intrinsic usefulness is not the only source of value. A commodity’s value is tied to what one can do with it AND/OR what one can exchange it for.

    Furthermore, use cases vary according to the commodity AS WELL AS the user. For example, diamonds are a very useful commodity for some people in some situations while being virtually useless for other people in other situations. And yet both sets of people tend to recognize that diamonds have value.

    The idea that one can define a commodity’s value across all use cases and across all users is one of the great fallacies of marxism.

    Summary: If you can find another sucker, it’s all good. 

    • #22
  23. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    So, Magic Internet Money turns out to be a scam that benefits Democrats. This is my surprised face.

    No, a scam to benefits criminals and people with no ethics.  Democrats are just a subset of that.  

    • #23
  24. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    The big difference between crypto and commodities is that a commodity is tangible and useful in everyday life. Crypto is simply ones and zeros in “cyberspace”, with no uses outside finance.

    Lots and lots and lots of software and data that are “simply ones and zeroes” can be extremely useful in everyday life. In fact, they are often much more useful in everyday life than gold is for the average person.

    Intrinsic usefulness is not the only source of value. A commodity’s value is tied to what one can do with it AND/OR what one can exchange it for.

    Furthermore, use cases vary according to the commodity AS WELL AS the user. For example, diamonds are a very useful commodity for some people in some situations while being virtually useless for other people in other situations.

    The idea that one can define a commodity’s value across all use cases and across all users is one of the great fallacies of marxism.

     

    I finally decided to stop, the moment I discovered a Ricochet (or other forum member) who is economically literate, and figure out a way to keep track of who they are, by saving a link to the article where I discovered or re-discovered or re-re-discovered him or her. Some day when the Davos crowd finally take over, those of us who survive might want to form a variant on the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society.

    (My memory for factual details is not as good as it used to be, and it never was.)

    I tried an experiment just now, by creating a Brave browser “Folder” called “Econ-literate folk” and dragging the current URL to it.

    Had it worked, you would have been the first entry!

     

     = = = = = = = =

    NB:

    It failed, like everything I try to do to work around the humiliating, frustrating non-functionality of software in the Me (Me Too Stupid to Do Anything For Himself) Generation of tech.  The link stored just takes me back to the Article, not to the Comment.

    If I re-learned and relocated that one tool that Phil Turmel taught me, I could probably make a Ricochet button to do this.  But I don’t have the energy any more. I am becoming more and more a member of the Me Generation, like the rest of the human race.

     

    • #24
  25. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    “FTX is converting crypto contributions to Ukraine’s war effort into fiat for deposit at the National Bank of Ukraine.”

    Quibble: One cannot convert crypto into fiat currency. One can only exchange crypto for fiat currency. Crypto is an asset like gold or real estate or oil. Once cannot convert such things into cash.

    Unless they are alchemists!

    • #25
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    The big difference between crypto and commodities is that a commodity is tangible and useful in everyday life. Crypto is simply ones and zeros in “cyberspace”, with no uses outside finance.

    Lots and lots and lots of software and data that are “simply ones and zeroes” can be extremely useful in everyday life. In fact, they are often much more useful in everyday life than gold is for the average person.

    Intrinsic usefulness is not the only source of value. A commodity’s value is tied to what one can do with it AND/OR what one can exchange it for.

    Furthermore, use cases vary according to the commodity AS WELL AS the user. For example, diamonds are a very useful commodity for some people in some situations while being virtually useless for other people in other situations.

    The idea that one can define a commodity’s value across all use cases and across all users is one of the great fallacies of marxism.

     

    I finally decided to stop, the moment I discovered a Ricochet (or other forum member) who is economically literate, and figure out a way to keep track of who they are, by saving a link to the article where I discovered or re-discovered or re-re-discovered him or her. Some day when the Davos crowd finally take over, those of us who survive might want to form a variant on the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society.

    (My memory for factual details is not as good as it used to be, and it never was.)

    I tried an experiment just now, by creating a Brave browser “Folder” called “Econ-literate folk” and dragging the current URL to it.

    Had it worked, you would have been the first entry!

     

    = = = = = = = =

    NB:

    It failed, like everything I try to do to work around the humiliating, frustrating non-functionality of software in the Me (Me Too Stupid to Do Anything For Himself) Generation of tech. The link stored just takes me back to the Article, not to the Comment.

    If I re-learned and relocated that one tool that Phil Turmel taught me, I could probably make a Ricochet button to do this. But I don’t have the energy any more. I am becoming more and more a member of the Me Generation, like the rest of the human race.

     

    If you mean the Misthiocracy comment, the link is https://ricochet.com/1338533/is-it-crypto-currency-or-is-it-klepto-currency/#comment-6530666

    • #26
  27. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    All currencies and all economic systems end up being Klepto.

    In the late 1980’s, Soros and others manipulated small Pacific Rim nations  to such an extent that their economies went into the toilet. Small nations usually hold currencies whose value can easily be manipulated.

    Also Japan went through similar manipulations, such that their nation ended up inside a L-shaped recovery. But this was a good training ground for one Timothy Geithner, who was sent in by either IMF or World bank to “help” the nation of Japan “recover.” Then he imposed all the measures that resulted in that L-shaped recovery.

    Then Geithner carefully dusted off that game plan  for Japan when his buddy Barack Obama asked him to oversee the US Treasury starting Jan 20, 2009. Then he ignored very wise advise from the US House committee on Governmental Oversight, and of course, found it necessary to lie to Congress to put them off what he wanted to do for the Insider Cabal.

    Then he allowed for not only the 700 billion dollar tax payer Bail Out that was discussed on the news. But for the more insidious “leakage”of another 16 to 32 Trillions of dollars over the next years.

    Also witness the clever massaging of the latest “health crisis” in which the alliance of the UN, The WHO, and Bill Gates/Fauci our nation was placed under FEMA control once Trump designated a virus w/ a 99.084% survival rate to be a pandemic.

    Part of the decade’s long massaging involved Fauci being the bag boy for the Wuhan lab during the 2nd Obama term. Without the millions of dollars that went to the lab because of Fauci’s involvement, it would have closed.

    The mRNA vaxxes were also developed during that time period. The only reason that these bio weapons are even call “viruses” is due to all the re-configuration of standard definitions for medical situations that also included the definition for “epidemic” and “pandemic.”

    Anyway the spending approved of by Congress and involving the money printing presses going into a most horrendous overdrive will end up costing the US tax payer some 6 to 17 trillions of dollars of monies.

    Is it any wonder human being are trying to find an alternative? (Which apparently cannot escape the flaws inherent in currency/monetary protocols.)

     

    • #27
  28. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Why is it always called crypto investing, not dollar investing?

    You are trying to sell dollars high and buy them low, right?

    “Because you are selling them first, and buying them second.”

    OK.  That is a good reason not to call it dollar investing. You are shorting the dollar, not investing in the dollar. Right?

    “Well, no. Shorting is when you are just betting someone that the currency exchange rate will change one way or the other. Whatever one person gains, the other loses, like playing craps.  That is just gambling, not investing.”

    Ah. I see. It’s different from gambling.  Somehow.

     

    • #28
  29. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Why is it always called crypto investing, not dollar investing?

    You are trying to sell dollars high and buy them low, right?

    “Because you are selling them first, and buying them second.”

    OK. That is a good reason not to call it dollar investing. You are shorting the dollar, not investing in the dollar. Right?

    “Well, no. Shorting is when you are just betting someone that the currency exchange rate will change one way or the other. Whatever one person gains, the other loses, like playing craps. That is just gambling, not investing.”

    Ah. I see. It’s different from gambling. Somehow.

     

    Maybe it’s “investing” when done by people who also have some ability to affect the outcome?

    • #29
  30. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Why is it always called crypto investing, not dollar investing?

    You are trying to sell dollars high and buy them low, right?

    “Because you are selling them first, and buying them second.”

    OK. That is a good reason not to call it dollar investing. You are shorting the dollar, not investing in the dollar. Right?

    “Well, no. Shorting is when you are just betting someone that the currency exchange rate will change one way or the other. Whatever one person gains, the other loses, like playing craps. That is just gambling, not investing.”

    Ah. I see. It’s different from gambling. Somehow.

     

    Well, Mark, consider: It is a new technology, not beholden to the insider cabal of top bankers.

    So of course and and all standard manipulations regarding a nation’s currency supply may be called “financial savvy.”

    Even if the manipulations involve a secret meeting by the top crowd of wealthy banking families on an island off the Carolinas.

    And even if that meeting inspires a Congressional vote on a centralized banking system. That system is to be given the title of “The Federal Reserve” so Americans won’t think insiders control   it.

    And somehow this vote takes place over the standard December weeks of holidays, so only a few in Congress vote on it.

    This is all Business Acumen 101.

    But crypto currencies – why they are nothing but a devious and easily manipulated form of gambling. Period!! (Unless the Congress is assembled to vote on a national crypto currency that will involve each citizen being given a social credit score!!)

     

    • #30
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.