Is It Crypto Currency or Klepto Currency?

 

Allegations are being made about FTX, a cryptocurrency investment company that donated $40 million dollars to political campaigns. 92% of these donations went to Democrat candidates.

From a Fox Business News report:

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried denied speculation on Twitter that he had flown to South America after the cryptocurrency exchange filed for bankruptcy.

When asked whether he had flown to Argentina, as rumors swirled on social media, the former chief executive told Reuters via text message that he was in the Bahamas, where the company is headquartered.

Bankman-Fried, 30, served as the CEO until Friday.

He also denied “secretly” transferring $10 billion of customer funds from FTX to his trading company Alameda research and denied implementing a “backdoor” in FTX’s bookkeeping system.

“We had confusing internal labeling and misread it,” he said of the $10 billion transfer.

Reuters reported, citing two people familiar with the matter, that at least $1 billion of customer funds had disappeared, with records revealing the financial hole.

When asked about the missing funds, Bankman-Fried responded: “???”

In a release, FTX said John J. Ray III had been appointed CEO in his stead.

Also on Saturday, FTX said that it was moving funds into offline storage after reporting “unauthorized transactions.”

Analysts said millions of dollars worth of assets had been withdrawn from the platform.

Allegations are being made that financial aid sent to Ukraine might have been a money laundering scheme involving FTX and some politicians in Congress. Allegations are also being made that FTX accounts were ‘cracked’ and money taken from those accounts ended up in the campaign coffers of Democrat and some Republican candidates.

Allegations are not proof of wrongdoing; an investigation needs to take place.

In my opinion Crypto Currency investing is somewhat sketchy, especially when it involves offshore investment firms and the involvement of politicians that may have received $40 million dollars in campaign contributions.

Published in Finance
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  1. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

     

    • #31
  2. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    lol

     

     

     

    • #32
  3. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Why is it always called crypto investing, not dollar investing?

    You are trying to sell dollars high and buy them low, right?

    “Because you are selling them first, and buying them second.”

    OK. That is a good reason not to call it dollar investing. You are shorting the dollar, not investing in the dollar. Right?

    “Well, no. Shorting is when you are just betting someone that the currency exchange rate will change one way or the other. Whatever one person gains, the other loses, like playing craps. That is just gambling, not investing.”

    Ah. I see. It’s different from gambling. Somehow.

    Well, Mark, consider: It is a new technology, not beholden to the insider cabal of top bankers.

    So of course and and all standard manipulations regarding a nation’s currency supply may be called “financial savvy.”

    Even if the manipulations involve a secret meeting by the top crowd of wealthy banking families on an island off the Carolinas.

    And even if that meeting inspires a Congressional vote on a centralized banking system. That system is to be given the title of “The Federal Reserve” so Americans won’t think insiders control it.

    And somehow this vote takes place over the standard December weeks of holidays, so only a few in Congress vote on it.

    This is all Business Acumen 101.

    But crypto currencies – why they are nothing but a devious and easily manipulated form of gambling. Period!! (Unless the Congress is assembled to vote on a national crypto currency that will involve each citizen being given a social credit score!!)

    What is it that I referred to as gambling?

    If you read my Comment more carefully, you will know

    • what it was, and
    • that what you thought you read is not what I wrote!

    But in your defense, the statement you made up and assigned to me really is stupid, just as you say. If I had said it, I would be just as stupid or ignorant as you assume I am.

    • #33
  4. Ernst Rabbit von Hasenpfeffer Member
    Ernst Rabbit von Hasenpfeffer
    @ape2ag

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    So, Magic Internet Money turns out to be a scam that benefits Democrats. This is my surprised face.

    Magic Fiat Dollar Money also benefits Democrats.

    • #34
  5. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Why is it always called crypto investing, not dollar investing?

    You are trying to sell dollars high and buy them low, right?

    “Because you are selling them first, and buying them second.”

    OK. That is a good reason not to call it dollar investing. You are shorting the dollar, not investing in the dollar. Right?

    “Well, no. Shorting is when you are just betting someone that the currency exchange rate will change one way or the other. Whatever one person gains, the other loses, like playing craps. That is just gambling, not investing.”

    Ah. I see. It’s different from gambling. Somehow.

    Well, Mark, consider: It is a new technology, not beholden to the insider cabal of top bankers.

    So of course and and all standard manipulations regarding a nation’s currency supply may be called “financial savvy.”

    Even if the manipulations involve a secret meeting by the top crowd of wealthy banking families on an island off the Carolinas.

    And even if that meeting inspires a Congressional vote on a centralized banking system. That system is to be given the title of “The Federal Reserve” so Americans won’t think insiders control it.

    And somehow this vote takes place over the standard December weeks of holidays, so only a few in Congress vote on it.

    This is all Business Acumen 101.

    But crypto currencies – why they are nothing but a devious and easily manipulated form of gambling. Period!! (Unless the Congress is assembled to vote on a national crypto currency that will involve each citizen being given a social credit score!!)

    What is it that I referred to as gambling?

    If you read my Comment more carefully, you will know

    • what it was, and
    • that what you thought you read is not what I wrote!

    But in your defense, the statement you made up and assigned to me really is stupid, just as you say. If I had said it, I would be just as stupid or ignorant as you assume I am.

    I was actually agreeing with you, by pointing to the historical manipulations regarding our nation’s economic affairs.

    And then mentioning how these manipulations do not point <sarcasm alert> to running and ruining  our economy by the laws of Vegas casino owners – because they were banker-approved.

    Sorry if I was too obtuse. (Or cryptic, as one might say.)

    • #35
  6. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    “You will own nothing and be happy.”

    • #36
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    • #37
  8. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Investing in stocks, bonds, foreign currencies, commodities, foreign exchanges, mutual funds, and whatever else you can think of there is a risk. Day traders compete with computer generated sell and buy trades with the big boy traders. There is always a risk because any system that can be gamed has already been gamed.

    When 1 billion dollars disappears, it should be taken as a warning that some crypto investment firms may have no more virtue than any other grifter that has preceded them.

    • #38
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    “You will own nothing and be happy.”

    SOMEONE still owns those houses, it just won’t be the people living in them.

    • #39
  10. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    “You will own nothing and be happy.”

    The big hole in allpolitical discussions is the one about housing.

    The number one item that everyone in our society has always wanted, dreamed about and worked for has been housing. It is now an impossibility in so many places across the USA.

    The Left has stuck themselves on the notion of ever increasing minimum wage raises.

    It cannot work. The more the Left hikes up the minimum wage, the more jobs available to that type of worker either totally disappear or else go underground.

    When living in the SF Bay area, I don’t even like to think bout the amount of money my household made each year. And even with our rent being low, the cost of living was just so high there in the metro area where good wages are possible that I think all bets about minimum wage hikes are off.

    But wages and a decent standard of living could come about without a focus on the minimum wage  if people were to have available and  easy to afford housing. How was it that this was accomplished by the Eisenhower Administration? Yet never tackled again?
    Trump had as one of this top agenda items the infra structure plan.

    The Dem leaders hated it in part as if he didn’t do it, they could, state by state. So they have used infra structure as a way to keep newly imported immigrants at work making money. (Of course the companies that contract for them have execs who make good money too. But the middle class citizenry is peculiarly left out of this arena of life.)

    • #40
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    “You will own nothing and be happy.”

    The big hole in allpolitical discussions is the one about housing.

    The number one item that everyone in our society has always wanted, dreamed about and worked for has been housing. It is now an impossibility in so many places across the USA.

    The Left has stuck themselves on the notion of ever increasing minimum wage raises.

    It cannot work. The more the Left hikes up the minimum wage, the more jobs available to that type of worker either totally disappear or else go underground.

    When living in the SF Bay area, I don’t even like to think bout the amount of money my household made each year. And even with our rent being low, the cost of living was just so high there in the metro area where good wages are possible that I think all bets about minimum wage hikes are off.

    But wages and a decent standard of living could come about without a focus on the minimum wage if people were to have available and easy to afford housing. How was it that this was accomplished by the Eisenhower Administration? Yet never tackled again?
    Trump had as one of this top agenda items the infra structure plan.

    The Dem leaders hated it in part as if he didn’t do it, they could, state by state. So they have used infra structure as a way to keep newly imported immigrants at work making money. (Of course the companies that contract for them have execs who make good money too. But the middle class citizenry is peculiarly left out of this arena of life.)

    I still maintain that a big part of the problem is limitations on building new housing, and jamming more people into existing cities rather than creating some new cities.  That used to happen “organically” because to get started all it required was someone building their house and/or some kind of “trading post” at a crossroads or a river bend or something.  Then dig an outhouse, etc.  But now people won’t live somplace that doesn’t already have water, sewer, power, trash collection, high-speed internet…  Which means that stuff has to be set up first.  That’s been done in the past by people such as Del Webb in Arizona, but who will do it now?

    • #41
  12. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    I finally decided to stop, the moment I discovered a Ricochet (or other forum member) who is economically literate, and figure out a way to keep track of who they are, by saving a link to the article where I discovered or re-discovered or re-re-discovered him or her. Some day when the Davos crowd finally take over, those of us who survive might want to form a variant on the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society.

    (My memory for factual details is not as good as it used to be, and it never was.)

    I tried an experiment just now, by creating a Brave browser “Folder” called “Econ-literate folk” and dragging the current URL to it.

    Had it worked, you would have been the first entry!

    If only I was any good at math. It took me two tries to get through 11th grade math. I got a 51% on the second try, and I’m convinced the teacher only passed me because he didn’t want to see me a third time.

    Thank goodness we don’t have SATs in the Great White North!  I got into a university that didn’t require any math credits for acceptance to a social science program (which seems kinda dumb in hindsight).

    ;-)

    • #42
  13. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    Ah. I see. It’s different from gambling.  Somehow.

    All investing is educated gambling.  You’re betting that the value of the asset you’re purchasing will increase (or decrease) within a certain period of time. That’s gambling. It doesn’t mean that the outcome is random, but it’s never 100% predictable.

    • #43
  14. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    For some reason I feel compelled to go on the record: I own zero crypto.

    • #44
  15. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    Ah. I see. It’s different from gambling. Somehow.

    All investing is educated gambling. You’re betting that the value of the asset you’re purchasing will increase (or decrease) within a certain period of time. That’s gambling. It doesn’t mean that the outcome is random, but it’s never 100% predictable.

    It may be more predictable if you’re also among those creating the regulations etc.

    • #45
  16. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    “You will own nothing and be happy.”

    The big hole in allpolitical discussions is the one about housing.

    The number one item that everyone in our society has always wanted, dreamed about and worked for has been housing. It is now an impossibility in so many places across the USA.

    Here in Our Fail City, they’re only building apartment buildings. Lots and lots of them. With very high rent.

    I don’t see single-family homes going up anywhere.

    • #46
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    “You will own nothing and be happy.”

    The big hole in allpolitical discussions is the one about housing.

    The number one item that everyone in our society has always wanted, dreamed about and worked for has been housing. It is now an impossibility in so many places across the USA.

    Here in Our Fail City, they’re only building apartment buildings. Lots and lots of them. With very high rent.

    I don’t see single-family homes going up anywhere.

    That’s partly because, like I said, they keep trying to cram more people into the existing cities.

    • #47
  18. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Why is it always called crypto investing, not dollar investing?

    You are trying to sell dollars high and buy them low, right?

    “Because you are selling them first, and buying them second.”

    OK. That is a good reason not to call it dollar investing. You are shorting the dollar, not investing in the dollar. Right?

    “Well, no. Shorting is when you are just betting someone that the currency exchange rate will change one way or the other. Whatever one person gains, the other loses, like playing craps. That is just gambling, not investing.”

    Ah. I see. It’s different from gambling. Somehow.

    But crypto currencies – why they are nothing but a devious and easily manipulated form of gambling. Period!! (Unless the Congress is assembled to vote on a national crypto currency that will involve each citizen being given a social credit score!!)

    What is it that I referred to as gambling?

    If you read my Comment more carefully, you will know

    • what it was, and
    • that what you thought you read is not what I wrote!

    But in your defense, the statement you made up and assigned to me really is stupid, just as you say. If I had said it, I would be just as stupid or ignorant as you assume I am.

    I was actually agreeing with you, by pointing to the historical manipulations regarding our nation’s economic affairs.

    And then mentioning how these manipulations do not point <sarcasm alert> to running and ruining our economy by the laws of Vegas casino owners – because they were banker-approved.

    Sorry if I was too obtuse. (Or cryptic, as one might say.)

    You and Flicker are occasionally too subtle for me.  My apologies!

    • #48
  19. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    “You will own nothing and be happy.”

    SOMEONE still owns those houses, it just won’t be the people living in them.

    The point is, the ownership is excessively centralized.

    • #49
  20. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    So, Magic Internet Money turns out to be a scam that benefits Democrats. This is my surprised face.

    I would argue that American currency is also a scam that benefits Democrats.

    Or perhaps I’m being too cynical?

    The constant creation of either CPI or asset inflation forces socialism. 

    • #50
  21. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Quibble: Cryptocurrency isn’t the villain here. The whole point of crypto is that it shouldn’t require any “trusted 3rd party” to use it. The villain here is a company that made money off the ignorance of people who didn’t understand that the company’s “services” are mostly unnecessary, even if the company had been honest.

    The scam could have been conducted nearly identically even if crypto didn’t exist, especially considering that it (allegedly) had the backing of the government of the United States.

    Blaming the existence of cryptocurrency for this scam is like blaming the existence of real estate for the 2008 financial crisis.

    Edited to take into account the fact that since the scam involved the exchange of crypto for cash, trusted third parties would indeed be necessary for that step in the scam. That being said, one does not have to rely on a single company for exchanging one’s crypto for cash. There are numerous cryptocurrency exchanges out there.

    Exactly. These holding operations have been crashing and burning for years. Keeping out banks, govt treasuries, brokers and everyone else but buyer and seller is the point.  An exchange for cash should be a one-off, not long-term asset storage. 

    • #51
  22. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I have limited Internet access this morning but I have to get this out there because I don’t know how long this is going to last. 

    Last night, Jessie Waters had a reporter from the New York Post about the FTX scandal. Must watch. The conspiracy yarn board on this thing is just devastating and easy to understand.  (the Dan Bongino’s segment is related and very good)

    Then on Tucker Charlie Gasparino. 

    The chief regulator is a yarn board mess. I think he supposedly “taught crypto” at MIT and got completely sucked in. I was always suspicious of this because the guy is like a million years old. I don’t care how smart he is, you just can’t be that old and do that. Total Democrat establishment.

    This wasn’t on the shows, but they have got Bloomberg news screwing up coming and going. Owned by Michael Bloomberg, obviously. 

    The main guy is a yarn board mess including his parents. 

    The guys girlfriend’s family. 

    The Democrat party, obviously. 

    This wasn’t on the show, but Anthony Scaramucci. The guys he works with are huge Democrat donors.

    The video of Cramer on CNBC from six weeks ago is unbelievable. 

     

    I have to be leaving something out.

    You know the state controlled national regime media is going to try to suppress it. 

    • #52
  23. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    But wages and a decent standard of living could come about without a focus on the minimum wage 

    Life is about supply, not money printing, forcing CPI + asset inflation and government. 

    Trade and automation are about better living through purchasing power, otherwise known as deflation. Loosen up the rules on business activity, stop creating inflation, and then you get the positives and the negatives of deflation handled more humanely.  We ignore this, so we have a regressive economy where people want socialism and populism.

     

    • #53
  24. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    This wasn’t on the show, but Anthony Scaramucci. The guys he works with are huge Democrat donors.

    I just heard this explained. 

    It’s called the Sequoia hedge fund. They invested in FTX. This pumped up FTX’s self-invented tokens, which Sequoia already had on its balance sheet. Then FTX invested back into Sequoia. Then everybody gives millions to Democrats. lol you can’t make this (redacted) up. He literally said $3.6 billion. I suppose that the sum of the parts at the top. 

    The other thing he said was there is no bitcoin in the vicinity of this exchange, basically. That doesn’t make any sense to me but that’s what he said.

     

    • #54
  25. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    Obviously he’s not an unbiased observer, but the CEO of Coinbase has some interesting things to say about the FTX drama, how the story is being covered by the MSM, and how regulation of crypto in the USA is far too ad hoc and unpredictable so entrepreneurs set up their crypto firms overseas where it isn’t regulated at all:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/sam-bankman-fried-is-a-criminal-says-coinbase-ceo-calls-out-mainstream-media-for-puff-pieces/ar-AA14bnZD

    • #55
  26. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    The other thing he said was there is no bitcoin in the vicinity of this exchange, basically. That doesn’t make any sense to me but that’s what he said.

    I haven’t seen it spelled out anywhere explicitly, but any article I’ve read on FTX seems to suggest that it was focused on low-market-cap crypto tokens rather than established cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

    It’s sorta kinda like the crypto version of Jordan Belfort selling over-the-counter penny stocks to unsuspecting amateurs who thought they were buying serious publicly-traded stocks.

    Here’s an interesting article from Coinbase on FTX:

    https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/17/4-key-takeaways-from-the-ftx-fiasco/

    • #56
  27. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    The other thing he said was there is no bitcoin in the vicinity of this exchange, basically. That doesn’t make any sense to me but that’s what he said.

    I haven’t seen it spelled out anywhere explicitly, but any article I’ve read on FTX seems to suggest that it was focused on low-market-cap crypto tokens rather than established cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

    It’s sorta kinda like the crypto version of Jordan Belfort selling over-the-counter penny stocks to unsuspecting amateurs who thought they were buying serious publicly-traded stocks.

    Here’s an interesting article from Coinbase on FTX:

    https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/17/4-key-takeaways-from-the-ftx-fiasco/

    Thanks for that. I have a limited Internet today so I’m not sure when I’m going to get to see that.

    One of the things I heard this morning from Charles on the fox business channel was, bitcoin is obviously a commodity. If they aren’t set up as a commodity they are a security. It seems silly if it’s not a commodity but what do I know.

    • #57
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    This wasn’t on the show, but Anthony Scaramucci. The guys he works with are huge Democrat donors.

    I just heard this explained.

    It’s called the Sequoia hedge fund. They invested in FTX. This pumped up FTX’s self-invented tokens, which Sequoia already had on its balance sheet. Then FTX invested back into Sequoia. Then everybody gives millions to Democrats. lol you can’t make this (redacted) up. He literally said $3.6 billion. I suppose that the sum of the parts at the top.

    The other thing he said was there is no bitcoin in the vicinity of this exchange, basically. That doesn’t make any sense to me but that’s what he said.

     

    Maybe what it means is these two outfits were taking investor’s money and “investing” it back and forth in each other, which pumped up the “price”/”value” of both even if they never actually owned any crypto currency?

    • #58
  29. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    kedavis (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    This wasn’t on the show, but Anthony Scaramucci. The guys he works with are huge Democrat donors.

    I just heard this explained.

    It’s called the Sequoia hedge fund. They invested in FTX. This pumped up FTX’s self-invented tokens, which Sequoia already had on its balance sheet. Then FTX invested back into Sequoia. Then everybody gives millions to Democrats. lol you can’t make this (redacted) up. He literally said $3.6 billion. I suppose that the sum of the parts at the top.

    The other thing he said was there is no bitcoin in the vicinity of this exchange, basically. That doesn’t make any sense to me but that’s what he said.

     

    Maybe what it means is these two outfits were taking investor’s money and “investing” it back and forth in each other, which pumped up the “price”/”value” of both even if they never actually owned any crypto currency?

    Isn’t this something like what happened with the Great Depression and the investments in Belgian steel?

    • #59
  30. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    The other thing he said was there is no bitcoin in the vicinity of this exchange, basically. That doesn’t make any sense to me but that’s what he said.

    I haven’t seen it spelled out anywhere explicitly, but any article I’ve read on FTX seems to suggest that it was focused on low-market-cap crypto tokens rather than established cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

    It’s sorta kinda like the crypto version of Jordan Belfort selling over-the-counter penny stocks to unsuspecting amateurs who thought they were buying serious publicly-traded stocks.

    Here’s an interesting article from Coinbase on FTX:

    https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/17/4-key-takeaways-from-the-ftx-fiasco/

    Thanks for that. I have a limited Internet today so I’m not sure when I’m going to get to see that.

    One of the things I heard this morning from Charles on the fox business channel was, bitcoin is obviously a commodity. If they aren’t set up as a commodity they are a security. It seems silly if it’s not a commodity but what do I know.

    The truth of “bitcoin is a commodity” cannot become obvious to me until you specify which of several distinct commonly used definitions you are using.  I have no way of reading your mind.  It might be obvious or it might not be.

    • #60
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