Talk Me into Supporting Trump Again

 

This came up today.

As Donald J. Trump weighs whether to open an unusually early White House campaign, a New York Times/Siena College poll shows that his post-presidential quest to consolidate his support within the Republican Party has instead left him weakened, with nearly half the party’s primary voters seeking someone different for president in 2024 and a significant number vowing to abandon him if he wins the nomination.

By focusing on political payback inside his party instead of tending to wounds opened by his alarming attempts to cling to power after his 2020 defeat, Mr. Trump appears to have only deepened fault lines among Republicans during his yearlong revenge tour. A clear majority of primary voters under 35 years old, 64 percent, as well as 65 percent of those with at least a college degree — a leading indicator of political preferences inside the donor class — told pollsters they would vote against Mr. Trump in a presidential primary.

Let’s have a discussion.  Should we, or should we not, encourage Mr. Trump to run again?

If he runs again, should we support him in the primaries over Mr. DeSantis, Mr. Cruz, Ms. Noem, others?

I take it as a given that all but one of us would support him in the general, if we are unfortunate enough to have him win the nomination.

My opinion (as someone who loves the man for his outspoken love of country and for all the good he did despite the array of forces stacked against him) is that we should not encourage him, not support him against other Republicans, but fall in line if he does get the nomination.  My logic is that his history makes him toxic.  He is likely the only candidate whom Mr. Biden could defeat.  If elected, he would be even more ineffective than he was in 2017, when he used a historic alignment of forces to accomplish no major legislation, to appoint three sterling justices, to move an embassy, and to otherwise do nothing of lasting importance.  Also, if re-elected, he could not stand for a third term of office.

Talk me out of it.

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  1. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

     

    There is a new New York magazine profile of Trump with an interview—not sure if it’s paywalled—and, if he’s correctly quoted, it’s clear he’s running. Apparently, he was thinking about announcing on the Fourth, but now may wait until after the mid-terms. This is a giant elephant in the room, and it seems unlikely that he will play nice with anyone who runs against him. I would say that it’s less than 50-50 that De Santis goes for it if Trump is in the way.

    That does not surprise me at all to read.

    Watching Biden, Trump has got to be boiling over.

    I don’t see a solution for the Republican Party. I like DeSantis because his is a new voice and people will listen just for the novelty of it. That’s really important because we’ve become very dysfunctional politically. Neither side listens to the other anymore. I hope DeSantis could break that logjam. We Americans have to work together.

    Or at least that’s what I thought, but I was talking with a Democratic friend of mine last weekend, and I casually mentioned DeSantis, saying I liked the way he handled the pandemic. I received an annoyed and hateful stare in return. “You DO?” It made me realize that some of the pandemic damage the Democrats have already done to DeSantis is pretty serious, and we shouldn’t nominate him with the idea that he is going to go over much better than Trump did.

    I can see advantages to either one, Trump or DeSantis. I’d lean toward Trump right now because I think our problems our economic, not legal. DeSantis is a lawyer. Trump is a businessman.

    DeSantis has already been demonized by the left.  It’s what they do.  No true Democrat will have anything good to say about him.  I think it’s likely he may appeal more to the undecideds who are tired of Trump, however.

    • #181
  2. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    MarciN (View Comment):
    It made me realize that some of the pandemic damage the Democrats have already done to DeSantis is pretty serious, and we shouldn’t nominate him with the idea that he is going to go over much better than Trump did. 

    I think the vast majority of Republicans understand that any Republican presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a fascist/racist/misogynist/whatever by the hard left and the media.  Just like any Democratic presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a socialist by the hard right.  Many of us want someone other than Trump, for our own reasons.  It’s not that we think he’s swell but just want someone that the media or Democrats will find palatable.  I’m not looking for a candidate that the left will respect.  I want someone I can respect.

    • #182
  3. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    . . .

    There is a new New York magazine profile of Trump with an interview—not sure if it’s paywalled—and, if he’s correctly quoted, it’s clear he’s running. Apparently, he was thinking about announcing on the Fourth, but now may wait until after the mid-terms. This is a giant elephant in the room, and it seems unlikely that he will play nice with anyone who runs against him. I would say that it’s less than 50-50 that De Santis goes for it if Trump is in the way.

    I’ll go out on a limb and say that the GOPe, NTs, and the rest of the fools who hate Trump will try to persuade DeSantis that he is the one guy who can stop Trump. They will shout from the mountaintops that Trump will lose badly to anyone in 2024, including Slow Joe, so it’s DeSantis’s responsibility to the country to be the GOPe candidate. Otherwise, we’ll be doomed to four more years of a Demo-rat in office, probably Governor Hairstyle. Newsom would be more dangerous than Biden because though he’s wrong about everything, he’s not stupid nor suffering from dementia.

    EDIT: Just ran across this.

    • #183
  4. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    It made me realize that some of the pandemic damage the Democrats have already done to DeSantis is pretty serious, and we shouldn’t nominate him with the idea that he is going to go over much better than Trump did.

    I think the vast majority of Republicans understand that any Republican presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a fascist/racist/misogynist/whatever by the hard left and the media. Just like any Democratic presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a socialist by the hard right. Many of us want someone other than Trump, for our own reasons. It’s not that we think he’s swell but just want someone that the media or Democrats will find palatable. I’m not looking for a candidate that the left will respect. I want someone I can respect.

    I don’t agree with creating an equivalency between the Dems accusations against  a Republican candidate and the flip side from the hard right as to a Democratic candidate— at least to the extent that the volume of viciousness from the left and the means to convey it is unparalleled.  

    • #184
  5. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    It made me realize that some of the pandemic damage the Democrats have already done to DeSantis is pretty serious, and we shouldn’t nominate him with the idea that he is going to go over much better than Trump did.

    I think the vast majority of Republicans understand that any Republican presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a fascist/racist/misogynist/whatever by the hard left and the media. Just like any Democratic presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a socialist by the hard right. Many of us want someone other than Trump, for our own reasons. It’s not that we think he’s swell but just want someone that the media or Democrats will find palatable. I’m not looking for a candidate that the left will respect. I want someone I can respect.

    Who was the last one not a hard leftist? 

    • #185
  6. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    There is this too; Trump is the only candidate who can’t be called ‘worse than Trump’. 

    • #186
  7. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    It made me realize that some of the pandemic damage the Democrats have already done to DeSantis is pretty serious, and we shouldn’t nominate him with the idea that he is going to go over much better than Trump did.

    I think the vast majority of Republicans understand that any Republican presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a fascist/racist/misogynist/whatever by the hard left and the media. Just like any Democratic presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a socialist by the hard right. Many of us want someone other than Trump, for our own reasons. It’s not that we think he’s swell but just want someone that the media or Democrats will find palatable. I’m not looking for a candidate that the left will respect. I want someone I can respect.

    Who was the last one not a hard leftist?

    I think Bill Clinton is a reprehensible character.  But there was a wide gulf between the Clinton administration and that of an actual socialist like Hugo Chavez.  I never liked Barack Obama, but he was not Fidel Castro.  If we are going to treat everyone to the left of Gerald Ford as if they are a Marxist, we hardly have room to complain when the left paints us as cartoon villains.

    • #187
  8. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    It made me realize that some of the pandemic damage the Democrats have already done to DeSantis is pretty serious, and we shouldn’t nominate him with the idea that he is going to go over much better than Trump did.

    I think the vast majority of Republicans understand that any Republican presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a fascist/racist/misogynist/whatever by the hard left and the media. Just like any Democratic presidential nominee is going to be denounced as a socialist by the hard right. Many of us want someone other than Trump, for our own reasons. It’s not that we think he’s swell but just want someone that the media or Democrats will find palatable. I’m not looking for a candidate that the left will respect. I want someone I can respect.

    Who was the last one not a hard leftist?

    I think Bill Clinton is a reprehensible character. But there was a wide gulf between the Clinton administration and that of an actual socialist like Hugo Chavez. I never liked Barack Obama, but he was not Fidel Castro. If we are going to treat everyone to the left of Gerald Ford as if they are a Marxist, we hardly have room to complain when the left paints us as cartoon villains.

    I don’t know that they must be called hard Leftists but any who disagree with the three landmark Constitutional decisions are operating convincingly in favor of centralized government on a scale to be opposed by any who want to support our existing Constitution. The founders provided a way to make changes, that way should be used. The recent Court decisions recognized that we have not been doing that.

    • #188
  9. Lawst N. Thawt Inactive
    Lawst N. Thawt
    @LawstNThawt

    I kept trying to catch up on this thread and gave up.  But then had the idea of using it as a sampling of intelligent voters (he said somewhat reserved and loosely with a wry smile).

    So I scanned through the comments and counted the yeas, nays and comments practicing abstinence.  

    What I learned:

    • 12 commenters appear to be kinda sorta in favor of a Trump second term.
    • 19 appear to be kinda sorta against* a run for a second term.
    • 4 appear to be kinda sorta uncommitted.
    • 153 comments were either duplicate sentiments, the sentiments were undetectable, or possibly unrelated.  
    • Don’t eat parrots.  I think there may have been some qualifiers, but it’s easier to remember if we keep it simple.

    * A number of those against appear to support or appreciate Trump’s past service but figure he’s played his hand and further effort is in vain. 

    • #189
  10. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    Lawst N. Thawt (View Comment):

    I kept trying to catch up on this thread and gave up. But then had the idea of using it as a sampling of intelligent voters (he said somewhat reserved and loosely with a wry smile).

    So I scanned through the comments and counted the yeas, nays and comments practicing abstinence.

    What I learned:

    • 12 commenters appear to be kinda sorta in favor of a Trump second term.
    • 19 appear to be kinda sorta against* a run for a second term.
    • 4 appear to be kinda sorta uncommitted.
    • 153 comments were either duplicate sentiments, the sentiments were undetectable, or possibly unrelated.
    • Don’t eat parrots. I think there may have been some qualifiers, but it’s easier to remember if we keep it simple.

    * A number of those against appear to support or appreciate Trump’s past service but figure he’s played his hand and further effort is in vain.

    Don’t eat the green parrots.  They give you parrotitis.

    • #190
  11. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Cassandro (View Comment):

    Lawst N. Thawt (View Comment):

    I kept trying to catch up on this thread and gave up. But then had the idea of using it as a sampling of intelligent voters (he said somewhat reserved and loosely with a wry smile).

    So I scanned through the comments and counted the yeas, nays and comments practicing abstinence.

    What I learned:

    • 12 commenters appear to be kinda sorta in favor of a Trump second term.
    • 19 appear to be kinda sorta against* a run for a second term.
    • 4 appear to be kinda sorta uncommitted.
    • 153 comments were either duplicate sentiments, the sentiments were undetectable, or possibly unrelated.
    • Don’t eat parrots. I think there may have been some qualifiers, but it’s easier to remember if we keep it simple.

    * A number of those against appear to support or appreciate Trump’s past service but figure he’s played his hand and further effort is in vain.

    Don’t eat the green parrots. They give you parrotitis.

    Which can lead to parrotsis of the liver.

    • #191
  12. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):

    Cassandro (View Comment):

    Lawst N. Thawt (View Comment):

    I kept trying to catch up on this thread and gave up. But then had the idea of using it as a sampling of intelligent voters (he said somewhat reserved and loosely with a wry smile).

    So I scanned through the comments and counted the yeas, nays and comments practicing abstinence.

    What I learned:

    • 12 commenters appear to be kinda sorta in favor of a Trump second term.
    • 19 appear to be kinda sorta against* a run for a second term.
    • 4 appear to be kinda sorta uncommitted.
    • 153 comments were either duplicate sentiments, the sentiments were undetectable, or possibly unrelated.
    • Don’t eat parrots. I think there may have been some qualifiers, but it’s easier to remember if we keep it simple.

    * A number of those against appear to support or appreciate Trump’s past service but figure he’s played his hand and further effort is in vain.

    Don’t eat the green parrots. They give you parrotitis.

    Which can lead to parrotsis of the liver.

    You joke.  But parrotitis is a real thing.  And it’s dangerous.  It’s just like elephantitis, but smaller.

    • #192
  13. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I just hope that if we go all in for DeSantis in an emotional pitch driven by the Democrats’ hating Trump and our desire to get out of their line of fire by nominating a more socially acceptable candidate, we don’t turn on DeSantis a year into his first term. That seems to be our political habit, and it’s not conducive to attracting talented leaders. I wouldn’t work for us.

    I like the fact that Republicans are critical of their own candidates and elected members. But sometimes our criticisms are simply arbitrary and argumentative for sake of argument rather than objective judgments.

    We will never be happy with any candidate or anyone elected to office if we don’t figure out what we want and what our priorities are.

    I would never work for Donald Trump. He is very harsh with people, and I don’t like being around that. And if he were my employer or client, he would make me very nervous. I don’t agree with him on many subjects, beginning with his negative attitude toward GW, someone I greatly admire. But he did a great many things I wanted to see done, and I agree with him on the really important things like American economics and the Iran Deal and Israel. And his judgment day to day matched mine. In short, I think he was a great president. I got what I wanted. But that’s because I have a clear set of priorities in my head.

    I would not work for Trump because of Trump.  No, I would not work for Trump because of how the rest of American would treat me.  I have no problem with bad names but when the Left hunts your family and actively seeks to jail you or black ball you then there is no future in it.  Your first responsibility is to yourself and your family.  Keeping them safe and whole and giving them a future.  Working for an outsider like Trump can eliminate that future in that he does not have big enough coat tails for protection 

    • #193
  14. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I just hope that if we go all in for DeSantis in an emotional pitch driven by the Democrats’ hating Trump and our desire to get out of their line of fire by nominating a more socially acceptable candidate, we don’t turn on DeSantis a year into his first term. That seems to be our political habit, and it’s not conducive to attracting talented leaders. I wouldn’t work for us.

    I like the fact that Republicans are critical of their own candidates and elected members. But sometimes our criticisms are simply arbitrary and argumentative for sake of argument rather than objective judgments.

    We will never be happy with any candidate or anyone elected to office if we don’t figure out what we want and what our priorities are.

    I would never work for Donald Trump. He is very harsh with people, and I don’t like being around that. And if he were my employer or client, he would make me very nervous. I don’t agree with him on many subjects, beginning with his negative attitude toward GW, someone I greatly admire. But he did a great many things I wanted to see done, and I agree with him on the really important things like American economics and the Iran Deal and Israel. And his judgment day to day matched mine. In short, I think he was a great president. I got what I wanted. But that’s because I have a clear set of priorities in my head.

    I would not work for Trump because of Trump. No, I would not work for Trump because of how the rest of American would treat me. I have no problem with bad names but when the Left hunts your family and actively seeks to jail you or black ball you then there is no future in it. Your first responsibility is to yourself and your family. Keeping them safe and whole and giving them a future. Working for an outsider like Trump can eliminate that future in that he does not have big enough coat tails for protection

    This is true. It is exactly how the Commies operate the federal bureaucracy. It is especially effective when used to control those who have been elevated to positions just slightly above their capability (an effective use of the Peter Principle). It also works well for those capable people who have established a stable life pattern with family members they support. We have seen this most recently in law enforcement and intelligence agencies like the FBI and the CIA. When coupled with the invocation of a requirement of nondisclosure because of security or investigative process, the people are at a great disadvantage.

    • #194
  15. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    I would not work for Trump because of Trump.  No, I would not work for Trump because of how the rest of American would treat me.  I have no problem with bad names but when the Left hunts your family and actively seeks to jail you or black ball you then there is no future in it.  Your first responsibility is to yourself and your family.  Keeping them safe and whole and giving them a future.  Working for an outsider like Trump can eliminate that future in that he does not have big enough coat tails for protection

    I agree completely.

    I really don’t know what to do about this. The Democrats waged an ugly war against Trump and his family and friends. It was wild, and the Republicans never stopped them, in part because there was a huge influence of NTs in Washington who welcomed the attacks, I think. It all culminated in the J6 outlandish prosecutions. There was a time not too long ago when protestors who behaved badly were thrown in jail overnight and given a stern talking-to by a judge the next morning, after which they simply went home. Biden’s actions–and that spectacular ridiculous presence of the National Guard troops and the razor wire–have forever changed politics in this country.

    Part of me wants to see Trump reelected just to respond somehow to the Biden persecution of Republicans. But another part of me knows that when the Trump administration tries to recruit the people top in their field for his cabinet, they will wisely decline. We could end up with mediocrity.

    I don’t see a way out of this mess. There’s dishonor all around. The Democrats waged a war on the Republicans.

    • #195
  16. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    I would not work for Trump because of Trump. No, I would not work for Trump because of how the rest of American would treat me. I have no problem with bad names but when the Left hunts your family and actively seeks to jail you or black ball you then there is no future in it. Your first responsibility is to yourself and your family. Keeping them safe and whole and giving them a future. Working for an outsider like Trump can eliminate that future in that he does not have big enough coat tails for protection

    I agree completely.

    I really don’t know what to do about this. The Democrats waged an ugly war against Trump and his family and friends. It was wild, and the Republicans never stopped them, in part because there was a huge influence of NTs in Washington who welcomed the attacks, I think. It all culminated in the J6 outlandish prosecutions. There was a time not too long ago when protestors who behaved badly were thrown in jail overnight and given a stern talking-to by a judge the next morning, after which they simply went home. Biden’s actions–and that spectacular ridiculous presence of the National Guard troops and the razor wire–have forever changed politics in this country.

    Part of me wants to see Trump reelected just to respond somehow to the Biden persecution of Republicans. But another part of me knows that when the Trump administration tries to recruit the people top in their field for his cabinet, they will wisely decline. We could end up with mediocrity. They won’t do as well. And still the Biden Democrats and NTs win.

    I don’t see a way out of this mess. There’s dishonor all around. The Democrats waged a war on the Republicans.

    About two decades ago, WFB, Jr.’s brother James said that “barring Divine intervention” we’re toast. Back then, I thought he was too pessimistic. Today, I agree. The difference between James and me is that I don’t believe the intervention is coming. 

    • #196
  17. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    I would not work for Trump because of Trump. No, I would not work for Trump because of how the rest of American would treat me. I have no problem with bad names but when the Left hunts your family and actively seeks to jail you or black ball you then there is no future in it. Your first responsibility is to yourself and your family. Keeping them safe and whole and giving them a future. Working for an outsider like Trump can eliminate that future in that he does not have big enough coat tails for protection

    I agree completely.

    I really don’t know what to do about this. The Democrats waged an ugly war against Trump and his family and friends. It was wild, and the Republicans never stopped them, in part because there was a huge influence of NTs in Washington who welcomed the attacks, I think. It all culminated in the J6 outlandish prosecutions. There was a time not too long ago when protestors who got carried away were thrown in jail overnight and given a stern talking-to by a judge the next morning, after which they simply went home. Biden’s actions–and that spectacular ridiculous presence of the National Guard troops and the razor wire–have forever changed politics in this country.

    Part of me wants to see Trump reelected just to respond somehow to the Biden persecution of Republicans. But another part of me knows that when the Trump administration tries to recruit the people top in their field for his cabinet, they will wisely decline. We could end up with mediocrity. They won’t do as well. And still the Biden Democrats and NTs win.

    I don’t see a way out of this mess. There’s dishonor all around. The Democrats waged a war on the Republicans.

    Yes, from my point of view the Communists, Democrats and NT are all cut from the sam back stabbing cloth.  Their tactics are the same maybe with a matter of degree.

    • #197
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