I Am Pence-sive Today

 

Ha, this was in my buffer from last week, so I figured I finish it today.

So, it appears that Mike Pence is considering a run for President in 2024.  When he was announced as the running mate of Trump in 2016 I was unimpressed, and (not in a bad way) never impressed by him in his four years as VP.  As the great Tom Lehrer song “What Ever Became of Hubert?” said in its intro, when LBJ was too ill to attend Churchill’s funeral and someone suggested they send Hubert and he said, “Hubert who?”

There are some who claim he did the US a great service on January 6th, and others who disagree, but it does lead up to a question … does anyone honestly want Mike Pence as President? I mean, is he conservative?  Apparently.  He was evidently a decent Governor of Indiana. He seems to be a decent husband, and a good Christian.  He has (IMO) all the personality of a wet burlap sack, but that hasn’t stopped him so far.

What would his appeal be to the electorate?  Was he spectacular in his debate against Kamala Harris?  I didn’t think so.  Are his stump speeches amazingly captivating?  I cannot remember a single one.  What would his policies be?  What about his foreign policy?  Economic policy? What Justices might he appoint to SCOTUS?

Are there any Pence fans or supporters on Ricochet that can argue why he would be a good President?  Does anyone think that he would unite the party, keeping the new converts that Trump brought (allegedly), while not losing the suburban housewives that Trump lost (allegedly)?  Does anyone think that he would not get Romneyed(tm) by the press and portrayed as weird and out of touch for his faith (they already started that with his attitude towards being alone with women who aren’t his wife), or that when that happens, that he would effectively fight back?

Perhaps that seems to be his greatest weakness (to me), that he does not fight back.  He is stolid and secure in his beliefs and so doesn’t feel the need to fight back when he is maligned.  He is a good Christian who turns the other cheek, but does that work in our culture to get elected?  I don’t think so.  Perhaps if he was a Democrat, then his faith and actions would be touted as amazing and inspiring, but because he is a conservative, they are weird, at best.

So, any Pence supporters out there want to take a chance on selling him to me and others?

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  1. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    He caved on the RFRA. He’s not a fighter. He’ll be another Carter – his faith only matters to his personal life and being strong against adversaries on political policies is uncivil.

    • #1
  2. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    If he does it makes my life easier.  I will vote for anybody not Mike Pence if I bother to vote at all.

    • #2
  3. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    I simply can’t get imagine him fighting the media like Desantis or Trump. 

    • #3
  4. JoelB Member
    JoelB
    @JoelB

    He was incurious about the election steal – just business as usual. This will not – it must not, go away no matter how often pundits say we must move on. We need to “Remember the Alamo”, so to speak, but not obsess over it.  Fool me once, shame on you…

    We need a conservative who can articulate conservative positions and follow through with actions.  I don’t see him in this way.

    What “Bring Us Together” candidate has ever succeeded in modern times at least? 

    • #4
  5. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Stina (View Comment):

    He caved on the RFRA. He’s not a fighter. He’ll be another Carter – his faith only matters to his personal life and being strong against adversaries on political policies is uncivil.

    What @cm said.

    • #5
  6. DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax)
    @DonG

    David C. Broussard: What would his appeal be to the electorate?  Was he spectacular in his debate against Kamala Harris?  I didn’t think so. 

    Now that we know how hapless Harris is, his debate performance looks even worse.  

    He has had his chance to take on the press and has chosen not to.

    • #6
  7. Ole Summers Member
    Ole Summers
    @OleSummers

    unimpressive as governor, has missed several chances to be the fighter we need and can consider his time heading the COVID response as a black mark. He continuely  deferred to the agencies which have served us so badly. Scott Atlas does a good job of telling that story. Pence is a no-go completely!

    • #7
  8. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    I very much appreciate the standard he sets as a Christian man, husband, and father. There might be times when those character issues would be important in a person holding high government office, such as the U.S. President. But now is not one of those times. 

    • #8
  9. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    Zero chance. No political courage, no fire, no personality.

    • #9
  10. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    He does not cast a shadow. He exists, but that’s about all we know of him.

    • #10
  11. GFHandle Member
    GFHandle
    @GFHandle

    He has enough courage to stand up against some of the commentors on this post.

    We call people courageous when they act as we wish and cowardly when they don’t, especially if we assume that our views are without doubt correct.  But the doubt about the “stolen election” is massive.

    And, thanks to the January 6 Committee, we now know this for certain. Mike Pence, his vice president, didn’t believe Trump had won, let alone by a landslide — for which he was targeted to be hanged by the mob Trump gathered. (A new detail: Trump — after the violence had already broken out — incited the mob against Pence directly, and they surged to get within 40 feet of him.)

    His daughter Ivanka and Jared Kushner also didn’t believe Trump had won — and we now know they planned to move to Miami only 24 hours after Trump declared he had been robbed. Trump’s beloved Hope Hicks didn’t believe he’d won. His campaign manager Bill Stepien didn’t either, and in a lovely understatement said he “didn’t think what was happening was necessarily honest or professional.” Even Kellyanne “alternative facts” Conway didn’t think he’d won.

    Trump’s attorney general, Bill Barr, didn’t think he’d won either, and told him so: “I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which I told the president was bulls…t. And I didn’t want to be a part of it.” Here’s how Trump responded to his top cop telling the truth: “This is killing me. You must have said this because you hate Trump, you hate Trump.” For Trump, there is no objective reality; no actual facts to be considered. There is only his subjective reality, where non-facts are asserted with the intensity of a madman.

    Who did believe that Trump had won? A sh…t-faced Rudy Giuliani on election night; the fruitcake — and now disbarred — conspiracist Sidney Powell; QAnon nutter Lin Wood, who wanted the vice president to face a firing squad for doing his job; and another deranged flunky, Peter Navarro. Then there was the disgraceful John Eastman, who crafted a legal strategy that he knew was unconstitutional, illegal and could lead to riots. “Garbage in, garbage out,” was how Trump’s former chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, described the clique and their plots.

    -Andrew Sullivan , “The Weekly Dish”, June 17

    • #11
  12. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    His having been “Hubert who?” as VPOTUS is a plus.  We could use a POTUS like that, too.

    • #12
  13. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    GFHandle (View Comment):

    He has enough courage to stand up against some of the commentors on this post.

    We call people courageous when they act as we wish and cowardly when they don’t, especially if we assume that our views are without doubt correct. But the doubt about the “stolen election” is massive.

    And, thanks to the January 6 Committee, we now know this for certain. Mike Pence, his vice president, didn’t believe Trump had won, let alone by a landslide — for which he was targeted to be hanged by the mob Trump gathered. (A new detail: Trump — after the violence had already broken out — incited the mob against Pence directly, and they surged to get within 40 feet of him.)

    His daughter Ivanka and Jared Kushner also didn’t believe Trump had won — and we now know they planned to move to Miami only 24 hours after Trump declared he had been robbed. Trump’s beloved Hope Hicks didn’t believe he’d won. His campaign manager Bill Stepien didn’t either, and in a lovely understatement said he “didn’t think what was happening was necessarily honest or professional.” Even Kellyanne “alternative facts” Conway didn’t think he’d won.

    Trump’s attorney general, Bill Barr, didn’t think he’d won either, and told him so: “I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which I told the president was bulls…t. And I didn’t want to be a part of it.” Here’s how Trump responded to his top cop telling the truth: “This is killing me. You must have said this because you hate Trump, you hate Trump.” For Trump, there is no objective reality; no actual facts to be considered. There is only his subjective reality, where non-facts are asserted with the intensity of a madman.

    ….. their plots.

    -Andrew Sullivan , “The Weekly Dish”, June 17

    Ok, so he did what he thought was right in the face of Trumps demands. (I am not talking about who was or was not right, but that he followed his convictions). That does not mean he has what it takes to win an election, or that he would get much of a following. 

    Newt got a following for a bit as a fighter, Trump the same and now DeSantis. The bulk of the Republican voters seem to want someone with a strong personality and some fight. That does not seem to be Pence.  I don’t think all of the combined events Jan 6th will do much to help or hurt Pence. He seems like a non-starter on his personality. He was a average Governor with a below average personality. 

     

    • #13
  14. Metalheaddoc Member
    Metalheaddoc
    @Metalheaddoc

    Gimme a fighter like DeSantis or Trump. Pence is a milquetoast, go-along-to-get-along GOPe. Even if he were to win (unlikely McCain/Romney v2.0), the country would lose because he would continually capitulate to the left like with RFRA. I might sit out that election unless he picks a stellar VP. 

    • #14
  15. GFHandle Member
    GFHandle
    @GFHandle

    Jager (View Comment):
    That does not mean he has what it takes to win an election, or that he would get much of a following. 

    I agree 100%. 

    It’s just that I don’t think Pence deserves to be dissed.  I remember when he took his kids to see “Hamilton” and the ignorant and impolite cast ranted at him after the show. He took it graciously and told his kids “That’s democracy at work.” He was right. That’s what makes America great, not to mention our long record of peaceful transition of power.

     

    • #15
  16. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    GFHandle (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):
    That does not mean he has what it takes to win an election, or that he would get much of a following.

    I agree 100%.

    It’s just that I don’t think Pence deserves to be dissed. I remember when he took his kids to see “Hamilton” and the ignorant and impolite cast ranted at him after the show. He took it graciously and told his kids “That’s democracy at work.” He was right. That’s what makes America great, not to mention our long record of peaceful transition of power.

    So his ability to absorb abuse is his biggest strength?

    • #16
  17. Dotorimuk Coolidge
    Dotorimuk
    @Dotorimuk

    If Pence is the nominee, I will vote for Biden, to conserve conservatism.

    Not really. But Pence won’t be the nominee anyway.

    • #17
  18. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    GFHandle (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):
    That does not mean he has what it takes to win an election, or that he would get much of a following.

    I agree 100%.

    It’s just that I don’t think Pence deserves to be dissed. I remember when he took his kids to see “Hamilton” and the ignorant and impolite cast ranted at him after the show. He took it graciously and told his kids “That’s democracy at work.” He was right. That’s what makes America great, not to mention our long record of peaceful transition of power.

    So his ability to absorb abuse is his biggest strength?

    Why not nominate Johny Depp. 

    • #18
  19. Dotorimuk Coolidge
    Dotorimuk
    @Dotorimuk

    In the old Red Eye days, I think it was TV’s Andy Levy™️ who said Pence’s future was playing army colonels in movies.

    • #19
  20. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Dotorimuk (View Comment):

    If Pence is the nominee, I will vote for Biden, to conserve conservatism.

    Not really. But Pence won’t be the nominee anyway.

    I would have to vote Biden because that is what Reagan would want / do.

    • #20
  21. GFHandle Member
    GFHandle
    @GFHandle

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    GFHandle (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):
    That does not mean he has what it takes to win an election, or that he would get much of a following.

    I agree 100%.

    It’s just that I don’t think Pence deserves to be dissed. I remember when he took his kids to see “Hamilton” and the ignorant and impolite cast ranted at him after the show. He took it graciously and told his kids “That’s democracy at work.” He was right. That’s what makes America great, not to mention our long record of peaceful transition of power.

    So his ability to absorb abuse is his biggest strength?

    I thought his reaction manly rather than masochostic. But if you see it that way, hey, it’s a free country.

    • #21
  22. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    David C. Broussard: Are his stump speeches amazingly captivating?  I cannot remember a single one. 

    He came to Albuquerque in 2016 and my wife got me a ticket. Better than I expected and I was surprised how confident an image he projected, that they were going to win in November. Not amazing and I don’t think he’d do well at the top of the ticket. As others have pointed out, he caved easily as governor.

    He did have all the portraits of the Vice Presidents who went on to be President hanging in his VP office. Plus one for wishcasting.

    • #22
  23. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    He seems like a decent fellow, grounded by faith, family,  and patriotism. There are always two or three of those who expire in the primaries. They have generic signs and red-white-blue logos and send out tweets about meeting people in a diner.

    It would be interesting to see him on the debate stage if Trump runs, though. 

    • #23
  24. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    He seems like a decent fellow, grounded by faith, family, and patriotism. There are always two or three of those who expire in the primaries. They have generic signs and red-white-blue logos and send out tweets about meeting people in a diner.

    It would be interesting to see him on the debate stage if Trump runs, though.

    But we need a guy who shines though the primaries and doesn’t fade out. 

    • #24
  25. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    There are times for respectable, moral people who exist in the background and quietly keep government running. This isn’t the time and we don’t have the government for his style. I dare say even George Washington isn’t who we need at the moment. Such men are good for the small executive branch but we have created a monster that must be tamed. If we succeed, times will call for such a man. He would be too old to be that person by then.

    • #25
  26. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    He seems like a decent fellow, grounded by faith, family, and patriotism. There are always two or three of those who expire in the primaries. They have generic signs and red-white-blue logos and send out tweets about meeting people in a diner.

    It would be interesting to see him on the debate stage if Trump runs, though.

    Grounded until things get difficult. From his days as governor:

    RFRA Reversed: Gov. Mike Pence Signs Indiana’s First Statewide Homosexual ‘Rights’ Bill into Law

    In a stunning, politically-correct turnaround following a week of LGBT protests and media and business opposition, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence yesterday signed into law a pro-homosexual legislative “fix” of the state’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA)–effectively turning it into Indiana’s first statewide homosexual “rights” law.

    Collapsed, as they say, like a cheap suitcase.

    • #26
  27. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    James Lileks (View Comment):
    He seems like a decent fellow, grounded by faith, family,  and patriotism. There are always two or three of those who expire in the primaries. They have generic signs and red-white-blue logos and send out tweets about meeting people in a diner.

    Yup, and they’re excellent at keeping things running (as well as government runs, which isn’t very well). But these folks are not too useful when things change or, more importantly, when things need to change. They don’t have the temperament or vision to push needed changes through. An boy howdy, do changes need to be made!

    • #27
  28. Underground Conservative Coolidge
    Underground Conservative
    @UndergroundConservative

    He would be the new “Low energy Jeb” or he could be fully qualified like Scott Walker and get trounced because nobody got excited about him. DeSantis is my only hope at the moment. 

    • #28
  29. Steven Galanis Coolidge
    Steven Galanis
    @Steven Galanis

     

     @David Broussard

    Was he spectacular in his debate against Kamala Harris? I didn’t think so.

    I thought he destroyed her in the debate. 

    @JoelB

    He was incurious about the election steal – just business as usual.

    He wasn’t incurious at all. For a season, he was the point man on the man-made virus that metastasized into a pandemic. He knew earlier than we did that the fix was on. What could he have done better?

    He should not run for president, not for any of his supposed shortcomings, but because it wouldn’t make any sense.

    He did a good job as VP, and apparently he helped President Trump a lot more by being on the ticket in 2016 than Tim Kaine did HC. 

     

    • #29
  30. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Steven Galanis (View Comment):

     

    @ David Broussard

    Was he spectacular in his debate against Kamala Harris? I didn’t think so.

    I thought he destroyed her in the debate.

    @ JoelB

    He was incurious about the election steal – just business as usual.

    He wasn’t incurious at all. For a season, he was the point man on the man-made virus that metastasized into a pandemic. He knew earlier than we did that the fix was on. What could he have done better?

    He should not run for president, not for any of his supposed shortcomings, but because it wouldn’t make any sense.

    He did a good job as VP, and apparently he helped President Trump a lot more by being on the ticket in 2016 than Tim Kaine did HC.

     

    Tim who?

    • #30
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