I Am Pence-sive Today

 

Ha, this was in my buffer from last week, so I figured I finish it today.

So, it appears that Mike Pence is considering a run for President in 2024.  When he was announced as the running mate of Trump in 2016 I was unimpressed, and (not in a bad way) never impressed by him in his four years as VP.  As the great Tom Lehrer song “What Ever Became of Hubert?” said in its intro, when LBJ was too ill to attend Churchill’s funeral and someone suggested they send Hubert and he said, “Hubert who?”

There are some who claim he did the US a great service on January 6th, and others who disagree, but it does lead up to a question … does anyone honestly want Mike Pence as President? I mean, is he conservative?  Apparently.  He was evidently a decent Governor of Indiana. He seems to be a decent husband, and a good Christian.  He has (IMO) all the personality of a wet burlap sack, but that hasn’t stopped him so far.

What would his appeal be to the electorate?  Was he spectacular in his debate against Kamala Harris?  I didn’t think so.  Are his stump speeches amazingly captivating?  I cannot remember a single one.  What would his policies be?  What about his foreign policy?  Economic policy? What Justices might he appoint to SCOTUS?

Are there any Pence fans or supporters on Ricochet that can argue why he would be a good President?  Does anyone think that he would unite the party, keeping the new converts that Trump brought (allegedly), while not losing the suburban housewives that Trump lost (allegedly)?  Does anyone think that he would not get Romneyed(tm) by the press and portrayed as weird and out of touch for his faith (they already started that with his attitude towards being alone with women who aren’t his wife), or that when that happens, that he would effectively fight back?

Perhaps that seems to be his greatest weakness (to me), that he does not fight back.  He is stolid and secure in his beliefs and so doesn’t feel the need to fight back when he is maligned.  He is a good Christian who turns the other cheek, but does that work in our culture to get elected?  I don’t think so.  Perhaps if he was a Democrat, then his faith and actions would be touted as amazing and inspiring, but because he is a conservative, they are weird, at best.

So, any Pence supporters out there want to take a chance on selling him to me and others?

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  1. Franz Drumlin Member
    Franz Drumlin
    @FranzDrumlin

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor. 

    • #31
  2. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions.  “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook. 

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs. 

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little  doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would  “fight” for what he wanted. 

    • #32
  3. Franz Drumlin Member
    Franz Drumlin
    @FranzDrumlin

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions. “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook.

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs.

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would “fight” for what he wanted.

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    • #33
  4. AMD Texas Member
    AMD Texas
    @DarinJohnson

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    GFHandle (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):
    That does not mean he has what it takes to win an election, or that he would get much of a following.

    I agree 100%.

    It’s just that I don’t think Pence deserves to be dissed. I remember when he took his kids to see “Hamilton” and the ignorant and impolite cast ranted at him after the show. He took it graciously and told his kids “That’s democracy at work.” He was right. That’s what makes America great, not to mention our long record of peaceful transition of power.

    So his ability to absorb abuse is his biggest strength?

    Frankly, that is not something to dismiss. Donald Trump would still be President if he showed the least bit of an ability to ignore his detractors.

    • #34
  5. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I really wish Paul didn’t talk about Christian faith in such an obscenely aggressive way like he did with the Ephesians…

    • #35
  6. Franz Drumlin Member
    Franz Drumlin
    @FranzDrumlin

    Stina (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I really wish Paul didn’t talk about Christian faith in such an obscenely aggressive way like he did with the Ephesians…

    Like I said: there is a sweet spot. 

    • #36
  7. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    That won’t take long.

    • #37
  8. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions. “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook.

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs.

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would “fight” for what he wanted.

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    I think that over the course of his political career Pence has shown us what he’s got. It is much closer to Caspar Milquetoast. That is my impression of his body of work, independent of anything that happened on Jan 6. 

    • #38
  9. Franz Drumlin Member
    Franz Drumlin
    @FranzDrumlin

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions. “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook.

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs.

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would “fight” for what he wanted.

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    I think that over the course of his political career Pence has shown us what he’s got. It is much closer to Caspar Milquetoast. That is my impression of his body of work, independent of anything that happened on Jan 6.

    Trump hasn’t begun insulting him. We know that’s coming, right? I’ll wait and see how Pence responds. 

    • #39
  10. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Stina (View Comment):

    He caved on the RFRA. He’s not a fighter. He’ll be another Carter – his faith only matters to his personal life and being strong against adversaries on political policies is uncivil.

    His cave on RFRA is perhaps the biggest mark against him.  The Mitch Daniels corporate types, along with the NCAA crew, launched torpedoes against him.  The lobbying was pretty fierce.  

    • #40
  11. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I think DeSantis fits the bill. He defends his programs, but does it in a courteous and good-humored manner.

    • #41
  12. Franz Drumlin Member
    Franz Drumlin
    @FranzDrumlin

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions. “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook.

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs.

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would “fight” for what he wanted.

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    I think that over the course of his political career Pence has shown us what he’s got. It is much closer to Caspar Milquetoast. That is my impression of his body of work, independent of anything that happened on Jan 6.

    Can’t wait for the first debate. Is Trump going to come right out and ask Pence why he didn’t cave in to the demands of an angry President and his howling mob?

    • #42
  13. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions. “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook.

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs.

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would “fight” for what he wanted.

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    I think that over the course of his political career Pence has shown us what he’s got. It is much closer to Caspar Milquetoast. That is my impression of his body of work, independent of anything that happened on Jan 6.

    Trump hasn’t begun insulting him. We know that’s coming, right? I’ll wait and see how Pence responds.

    Ok.

    I am not like hard anti-Pence. I think being who he is might have helped Trump in the 2016 election. Just like Bush Sr being who he was may have helped Reagan’s first election.

    That said some people who are good/useful for VP don’t have it for the top job

    • #43
  14. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Franz DrumlinCould we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? 

    The Bush/Dole/Bush era of Republican politics is basically taking the position that the party should present itself as efficient managers of the welfare state and that Bill Buckley’s vision of conservatism was not “standing athwart history yelling ‘stop,’” but just providing the progressive vision in slow motion.

    At what point to you say, “No more. This ends now.” Or don’t you? 

    The Left has engaged, and is willing to keep on engaging in, salami tactics. You will surrender everything you hold dear one small slice  at a time. Soon, no more salami. But, hey! You were “civilized and reasonable,” right? When do you reach that hill to die on? Or don’t you? Or do you just enjoy the managed decline?

    • #44
  15. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions. “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook.

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs.

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would “fight” for what he wanted.

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    I think that over the course of his political career Pence has shown us what he’s got. It is much closer to Caspar Milquetoast. That is my impression of his body of work, independent of anything that happened on Jan 6.

    Trump hasn’t begun insulting him. We know that’s coming, right? I’ll wait and see how Pence responds.

    Ok.

    I am not like hard anti-Pence. I think being who he is might have helped Trump in the 2016 election. Just like Bush Sr being who he was may have helped Reagan’s first election.

    That said some people who are good/useful for VP don’t have it for the top job

    Lots of voters in 2016 were willing to vote for Trump because Pence was on the ticket. 

    • #45
  16. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Lots of voters in 2016 were willing to vote for Trump because Pence was on the ticket.

    Can you supply any evidence for this assertion?

    • #46
  17. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Lots of voters in 2016 were willing to vote for Trump because Pence was on the ticket.

    Can you supply any evidence for this assertion?

    I spoke with hundreds of voters in the final run up to the 2016 election. Pence’s presence on the ticket helped them pull the lever for Trump.  Granted, the voters I talked to were Hoosiers. I am pretty confident that a few % of voters elsewhere made similar calculations.

    • #47
  18. HeavyWater Reagan
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    I think Pence would make a good president.  I also think that if Pence were the Republican nominee in 2024, he would beat the Democratic nominee, whoever that person is.  

    But I don’t think Pence will win the Republican nomination in 2024 unless both Trump and DeSantis decide not to run. 

    As I see it, the nominee will be either Trump or DeSantis unless neither of them run, in which case it is possible Pence could win the nomination or maybe someone like Tom Cotton could be the nominee.  

    As for Pence caving on RFRA, it’s interesting that during that same time frame, Trump denounced the North Carolina bathroom bill, which was passed to prevent dudes from using women’s bathrooms.  

    Corporations were threatening to boycott North Carolina and Trump sided with the Corporations rather than with women in North Carolina who didn’t want to share their bathrooms with men who pretend to be women.  

    So, if people are going to say that Pence is weak for not standing firm for RFRA in the face of boycott threats (I live in Indaina, so I know how sigificant those boycott threats were), then why not apply that same standard to Trump, who went out of his way to criticize the conservative Republicans of North Carolina on the transgender issue?  

    In any case, I like Mike Pence.  But he’s not my number 1 choice for 2024.  Ron DeSantis is.  

    • #48
  19. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    I spoke with hundreds of voters in the final run up to the 2016 election. Pence’s presence on the ticket helped them pull the level for Trump. Granted, the voters I talked to were Hoosiers. I am pretty confident that a few % of voters elsewhere made similar calculations.

    Why? Hardly anybody outside of Indiana knew Pence from Joe Blow.

    • #49
  20. HeavyWater Reagan
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    I spoke with hundreds of voters in the final run up to the 2016 election. Pence’s presence on the ticket helped them pull the level for Trump. Granted, the voters I talked to were Hoosiers. I am pretty confident that a few % of voters elsewhere made similar calculations.

    Why? Hardly anybody outside of Indiana knew Pence from Joe Blow.

    There are many traditional Republicans who will vote for a Ron DeSantis or a Tom Cotton or a Mike Pence but will not vote for a Donald Trump.  

    I am one of those voters.  I have voted Republican all my life.  But I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020 and won’t vote for Trump in 2024.  

    Trump’s personality communicates chaos.  Pence’s personality communicates calm.  

    Most people like their president to be calm and intelligent (Pence), not chaotic and incoherent (Trump).

    • #50
  21. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    HeavyWater (View Comment)Mo

    Most people like their president to be calm and intelligent (Pence), not chaotic and incoherent (Trump).

    If by calm you mean “he will roll over at the first sign of opposition” then I guess Pence is your guy.

    • #51
  22. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    I spoke with hundreds of voters in the final run up to the 2016 election. Pence’s presence on the ticket helped them pull the level for Trump. Granted, the voters I talked to were Hoosiers. I am pretty confident that a few % of voters elsewhere made similar calculations.

    Why? Hardly anybody outside of Indiana knew Pence from Joe Blow.

    As governor he was fairly well-known in the region.  

    Once he was on the ticket he became much better known. 

    • #52
  23. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    Perhaps you should look at how the Dems fight and win. Yes, Repubs suck at messaging. Trump is the only one good at it and Repubs are trying to trash him like they trashed Cruz. 

    • #53
  24. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions. “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook.

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs.

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would “fight” for what he wanted.

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    He is toast. 

    • #54
  25. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    AMD Texas (View Comment):

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    GFHandle (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):
    That does not mean he has what it takes to win an election, or that he would get much of a following.

    I agree 100%.

    It’s just that I don’t think Pence deserves to be dissed. I remember when he took his kids to see “Hamilton” and the ignorant and impolite cast ranted at him after the show. He took it graciously and told his kids “That’s democracy at work.” He was right. That’s what makes America great, not to mention our long record of peaceful transition of power.

    So his ability to absorb abuse is his biggest strength?

    Frankly, that is not something to dismiss. Donald Trump would still be President if he showed the least bit of an ability to ignore his detractors.

    He would be president if voters weren’t such emotional nitwits

    • #55
  26. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I don’t think so. People gravitate to leaders who have confidence and defend themselves against attacks. That have the courage to stand up for the convictions. “someone who fights” is really short hand for not wanting a push over.

    Romney was right in the debate, he could have/should have pushed the point. He let Obama and the moderator walk all over him. He was not a nazi, a dog abuser but he let the Press off the hook.

    Yes you need to be convincing and argue effectively. That takes a strong personality. No matter what your argument people will be more likely to trust the guy who seems like he is “fighting” for his beliefs.

    I thought Obama was wrong about most things, but I had little doubt that he truly believed what he was saying or that he would “fight” for what he wanted.

    I agree but there’s a sweet spot between Caspar Milquetoast and a WWE bloviator. Plenty of time for Pence to show us what he’s got.

    I think that over the course of his political career Pence has shown us what he’s got. It is much closer to Caspar Milquetoast. That is my impression of his body of work, independent of anything that happened on Jan 6.

    Trump hasn’t begun insulting him. We know that’s coming, right? I’ll wait and see how Pence responds.

    If he can’t take it, then he is unprepared for what the Dems will do to him. 

    • #56
  27. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    I think DeSantis fits the bill. He defends his programs, but does it in a courteous and good-humored manner.

    Dems will just hold impeachment hearing after impeachment hearing on him, too. 

    • #57
  28. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I think Pence would make a good president. I also think that if Pence were the Republican nominee in 2024, he would beat the Democratic nominee, whoever that person is.

    But I don’t think Pence will win the Republican nomination in 2024 unless both Trump and DeSantis decide not to run.

    As I see it, the nominee will be either Trump or DeSantis unless neither of them run, in which case it is possible Pence could win the nomination or maybe someone like Tom Cotton could be the nominee.

    As for Pence caving on RFRA, it’s interesting that during that same time frame, Trump denounced the North Carolina bathroom bill, which was passed to prevent dudes from using women’s bathrooms.

    Corporations were threatening to boycott North Carolina and Trump sided with the Corporations rather than with women in North Carolina who didn’t want to share their bathrooms with men who pretend to be women.

    So, if people are going to say that Pence is weak for not standing firm for RFRA in the face of boycott threats (I live in Indaina, so I know how sigificant those boycott threats were), then why not apply that same standard to Trump, who went out of his way to criticize the conservative Republicans of North Carolina on the transgender issue?

    In any case, I like Mike Pence. But he’s not my number 1 choice for 2024. Ron DeSantis is.

    The guy in a position to actually sign a bill that made it to his desk refused to sign it is comparable to the guy that was barely running for office?

    • #58
  29. Dotorimuk Coolidge
    Dotorimuk
    @Dotorimuk

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Could we maybe dial back on the “we need someone who fights” talk? Electoral politics is not a Sumo wrestling match with the win going to the guy who shoves his opponent off the mat. Victory goes to the candidate who persuades more people to vote for him or her than the other candidate. And by persuade I mean convinces, assures, argues effectively, commands respect through action and demeanor.

    Perhaps you should look at how the Dems fight and win. Yes, Repubs suck at messaging. Trump is the only one good at it and Repubs are trying to trash him like they trashed Cruz.

    Trump trashed Cruz as well, with total nonsense. And I ended up voting for him twice, because of the alternative. Will do it again, but hope I don’t have to.

    Let’s nominate someone under 70 for a change.

     

    • #59
  30. ToryWarWriter Thatcher
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    He is a total loser and I look forward to him being the first to drop out in the primaries.

    • #60
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