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Dates
Tom Wolfe once implied in an interview that there was much to gauge about America by asking college-aged men how many dates they had to go on before … ya know. If we factor out boastfulness and put pretending he got honest answers to the side, he noticed a trend that developed from the sixties when he began asking. As decades passed, the responses went from five to four, three to two, to one, until, by the time he was researching for his third novel, I Am Charlotte Simmons, the most common he received was, “dates?…”
Anybody who knows anything about youth culture knows that dates are done for. For now, anyway.
Now the fact that Wolfe knew to frame the question that way already said something about how a patriotic skeptic understood our culture. Whether or not he put much stock in the idea that there was a burgeoning two Americas, I couldn’t say. But for now, the hookup scene is what’s happening. It’s an ick-fest for the bold; blech-y for the blacked out. It’s gross. Worst of all, it’s consensual.
*****
Bad as things are, it’s not what you think. There have never been more 25-year-old virgins in the history of Earth. It’s especially sad because I doubt there’s ever been a time when fellas have ever felt more shame for being virgins. “Incels” is what they’re called now. The prehistoric dilemma of all single dude-dom is supposedly noteworthy nowadays. It isn’t. The lack of work ethic is. But the lack of clear expectations preclude running on the wheel. For starters, it helps if someone sets up the carrot.
Even when we set aside super spreaders, the problem remains. Boys do not ask girls to accompany them to dinner and motion picture entertainment. If and when … ya know … happens, there isn’t much of period of time before … you get the idea. I can’t even say which is the bigger issue! It’s probably worse the way it all goes down when it goes down. But the rarity of it all isn’t entirely unrelated to Harry opting to become Sally.
From what I can see, the funky way of contemporary coupling goes thusly: young people go to bars or parties. Then they drink too much. In the process, they work up nerve. They pair up and “get outta here.” Happenings happen. A few months go by, parents visit town, and the girl works up another kind of nerve, soberly this time.
“Soooo … am I your girlfriend?”
Guy says, “Uh … yeah.”
It’s not the stuff “happily ever after” is made of.
I’m sure it’s not the whole thing, hopefully just a dismal tide. But this datelessness is worth penciling in, no? I wonder if young people could do each other right by agreeing to more reasonable expectations. I suspect they need to be told in order to have them in the first place. Perhaps sex education has been left to creeps – whether credentialed school board members who direct seventh-grade biology teachers or the pimply seventh graders who’ve been lying about their exploits since before they even earned pimples – for too long.
#savethedate
Published in General
I don’t think it’s ever gone out of style. It’s just become illegal.
It’s like saying don’t date anyone at the same college as you.
My newest grandchild’s mom was 42. She probably would not be pleased with that description.
I typed out this for comment #1. But I thought it was too early. Glad you included it.
It’s medical terminology, I didn’t invent it.
Anyway, it’s not exactly a secret that women have far more difficulty getting pregnant past about 35, and more difficulty carrying to term, additional complications, etc. That some manage to do it anyway doesn’t refute that. And any man who gets serious about any woman who is 35+ and says she might want kids “someday,” is more likely than not to end up disappointed. (Especially if the woman ends up not being able to have kids, and punishes HIM for it. Like it was somehow his fault. For not coming along when she was younger and somehow changing HER mind? Whatever.)
That rural small town dance is the one where she met my father. Her life was pretty much down hill from there.
She passed away 12 years ago. My dad last month.
When I was a teenager, my episcopal diocese had a bishop that was very youth-centric and he created an office for a director of youth ministry. This director arranged diocesan-wide camp retreats, festivals, weekend lock-ins, community service/outreach and other events that brought the entire diocesan youth together. It was kind of a golden age. My Ocala church had close relationships with churches in Deland, Kissimmee, and St. Cloud. We had friends everywhere. When I moved to Orlando, the relationships started there helped in plugging me into another church.
This can be done for young adults, too. While the social club aspect is good to have, more focus is needed on getting hands dirty across individual churches.
I think part of the problem too is that kids really need to “start younger.” “Playing doctor” shouldn’t be seen as “assault” etc the way the loons have it now.
I tend to agree with him about when this began. A few things happened in the sixties that got it started. I did my teen years in the fifties and I didn’t see it. I did see it in the sixties, a big change in the ladies’ willingness. I think most of the changes that led to this change had their greatest effects on females. The growing divorce rate, then no-fault divorce, the pill, the feminist movement, then more women working and living independently, all this had secondary effects on men that is now having a major and significant effect. I did a post about something I called an epiphany, maybe a bad description, when I came face-to-face with unwillingness but strong attraction. Everything took a different path. Turned out well for me and my close and well-behaved, intact family..
Yes, they happen. I just returned from one. And no, nobody ends up dating . . . except the people in the group who met online.
No luck online? Then you’re screwed. (Or not screwed, as the case may be.)
They’ve ruined everything.
A pretty even split. Not that it matters.
Of course these days, “gender” doesn’t seem to mean what it used to. An “even split” could mean 50% men who identify as men, and 50% men who identify as women.
I can’t really prove it… not yet. But the short response I can give is that I know people in their 20s and 30s are fatigued by the arrangement. I’ll let them do a lot of talking about their foibles and every once in a while I’ll kindly toss in a conservative sentiment. Every time I do it, I can see it’s something they hadn’t heard before, but clocks are turning.
They want what we’re selling, we just don’t sell it well… not yet. I’ll take our problem over the Left’s problem of having a bad product.
I’m trying to write more regularly, so I’ll try to gather some thoughts on this and put something out when I can.
I’ve never done online. I don’t know of anything like this in my city. I do go on dates, but the women here are pretty progressive and with the ones I’ve gone out with are just a bit passed the point I can work with. Even so, I’ll probably stick with spontaneity.
But as for these Catholic meets, is it that the guys aren’t working up the nerve to ask the girls out? Are the girls dismissive? Too picky? Prudish? Regardless of what it is that you’ve noticed, this whole phenomenon is something Catholics should be talking about more.
Same as BXO. Little experience, met wife in law school. Slow going given my inexperience. But it worked out. For almost 52 years. Then in the Navy I saw what the sailors experienced in Olongapo. Holy sh*t. Wonder if they wound up happy in the end.
Dr R (almost posted Dr. B) sounds like sailors and the gals in P.I. in 1972. Had to deal with a bunch of them wanting to get the green cards.
Ke that’s young or middle age men’s stuff. No older gal would claim getting raped by a 60 something. Too embarrassing.
Has St. A weighed in yet? Know he is not a Catholic, like me and some on here, but educated in Texas. So will have some good insights.
And leads to lots of employment litigation. Thank God!
For most of the young/middle age guys it’s a cop out. Crazy b-words aren’t new. They get a lot of attention, but they aren’t that hard to spot and then avoid. I know guys who weren’t wise enough to spot the signs, but those guys aren’t the same as the ones who aren’t jumping into the modern romance scene… ya know, such as it is.
Catchy tune, too.
Yes, that’s a common complaint among Catholic girls.
Yes, that’s a common complaint among Catholic guys.
I agree, I think one problem is the lack of frivolous dating. No one I knew in high school or college in the 90’s went on frivolous dates. We hung out and socialized in co-ed packs, until two paired off and word spread around that they were now “boyfriend and girlfriend,” which status lasted until they broke up. If you went on a “date” it pretty much assumed and implied you were already in some sort of exclusive relationship.
I’m not sure what sort of parish you’re joining, but in my experience there are plenty of parishioners (and not a few priests) who quite openly dissent from Church teaching on all sorts of subjects. Though they’re not likely to tell you to go to confession afterwards, as most of them rarely if ever frequent that sacrament.
As for chastity, I don’t recall hearing much about it growing up Catholic in the 80’s. The one discussion of sex I recall from my religious education classes was pretty much the same as what I got in public school sex ed, centered on gross-out pictures of the effects of various STDs.
I am friends with 2 separate couples that both met each other in college, lived together, stayed together exclusively after college, and continued “going out” or whatever you want to call it for over a decade before finally deciding to tie the knot as the milestone birthday of 30 approached.
I don’t think that’s what he’s saying.
It’s not about being so arrogant you think the teaching doesn’t apply to you or the naivety or pride to think only bad people commit mortal sins. It’s having the humility to admit I was wrong and confession can help, and being able to accept forgiveness because I’m only human.
As it happened, last night was prayer meeting night for my church. By the grace of God I was reminded in my conversation with a man from Arizona(Phoenix) and a man from Minnesota (Minneapolis) that there are in fact many who, while not so desirous of arranged marriages, have a biblical view of marriage, dating and premarital sex. Because of that there are many, both male and female, that enter into marriages chaste: Marriages which last a lifetime.
I had temporarily forgotten that anecdotal stories are hardly the basis of sound judgment.
Just getting back to this–you’re point is well taken. I probably chose poorly by using the term “frivolous”. The kind of dating atmosphere you describe seems perfectly healthy, and I did not interpret my father’s advice so as to oppose such friendships.
How I interpreted the advice was this: Don’t keep dating a girl who for whatever reason(s) you would never consider marrying. Low key dating helps to make important evaluations, but it’s important not to allow a relationship to “progress” merely because there’s some attraction.
In any event, good thoughts. Thanks!
I supposed I should have said “driver’s license.” However, don’t some colleges require signed consent forms before couples date? Or maybe that’s to have sex . . .
Wouldn’t it be simpler to require chastity belts that could only be opened when two keys were turned simultaneously?