Dates

 

Tom Wolfe once implied in an interview that there was much to gauge about America by asking college-aged men how many dates they had to go on before … ya know. If we factor out boastfulness and put pretending he got honest answers to the side, he noticed a trend that developed from the sixties when he began asking. As decades passed, the responses went from five to four, three to two, to one, until, by the time he was researching for his third novel, I Am Charlotte Simmons, the most common he received was, dates?…”

Anybody who knows anything about youth culture knows that dates are done for. For now, anyway.

Now the fact that Wolfe knew to frame the question that way already said something about how a patriotic skeptic understood our culture. Whether or not he put much stock in the idea that there was a burgeoning two Americas, I couldn’t say. But for now, the hookup scene is what’s happening. It’s an ick-fest for the bold; blech-y for the blacked out. It’s gross. Worst of all, it’s consensual.

*****

Bad as things are, it’s not what you think. There have never been more 25-year-old virgins in the history of Earth. It’s especially sad because I doubt there’s ever been a time when fellas have ever felt more shame for being virgins. “Incels” is what they’re called now. The prehistoric dilemma of all single dude-dom is supposedly noteworthy nowadays. It isn’t. The lack of work ethic is. But the lack of clear expectations preclude running on the wheel. For starters, it helps if someone sets up the carrot.

Even when we set aside super spreaders, the problem remains. Boys do not ask girls to accompany them to dinner and motion picture entertainment. If and when … ya know … happens, there isn’t much of period of time before … you get the idea. I can’t even say which is the bigger issue! It’s probably worse the way it all goes down when it goes down. But the rarity of it all isn’t entirely unrelated to Harry opting to become Sally.

From what I can see, the funky way of contemporary coupling goes thusly: young people go to bars or parties. Then they drink too much. In the process, they work up nerve. They pair up and “get outta here.” Happenings happen. A few months go by, parents visit town, and the girl works up another kind of nerve, soberly this time.

“Soooo … am I your girlfriend?”

Guy says, “Uh … yeah.”

It’s not the stuff “happily ever after” is made of.

I’m sure it’s not the whole thing, hopefully just a dismal tide. But this datelessness is worth penciling in, no? I wonder if young people could do each other right by agreeing to more reasonable expectations. I suspect they need to be told in order to have them in the first place. Perhaps sex education has been left to creeps – whether credentialed school board members who direct seventh-grade biology teachers or the pimply seventh graders who’ve been lying about their exploits since before they even earned pimples – for too long.

#savethedate

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  1. Justin Other Lawyer Coolidge
    Justin Other Lawyer
    @DouglasMyers

    Stad (View Comment):

    I had no dating life until I got my license . . .

    Pilot’s license?

    Ray Gunner (View Comment):

    The way I remember it (back in the Pleistocene), the purpose of dating was to test for marriageability. I seems to me young people not dating is a function of young people not marrying. What’s the point of dating in your 20s if you are not going to get serious about marriage until your 40s?

    My father was not one for giving verbal advice.  He mainly showed by example.  But one thing he impressed on me I think was very helpful: never get physically or emotionally serious with a young lady that you can’t imagine yourself marrying.  He wasn’t weird about it, and it’s not like I went around asking “who wants to get married?”  Rather, he discouraged frivolous dating, understanding that romantic involvement carries with it tremendous mystical attachments that are not easily undone if/when things don’t work out.

    • #31
  2. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    “Hey, babe, you up for something nominally sophisticated yet decidedly pointless and impersonal?”

    I feel like the last 50 years were devoted to making things easier for lounge lizards.

    However, from what I hear, the music was pretty cool.  

    • #32
  3. Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. Coolidge
    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr.
    @BartholomewXerxesOgilvieJr

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    Tinder would be mostly for 20’s and 30’s. I’ve a 16 year old friend who tells me there’s a dating app for teenagers which just sounds wrong.
    I’ve tried some of them but I’ve never enjoyed it, it soon feels like a series of job interviews for a job you don’t really want.

    It wasn’t that long ago that saying you met someone online was a sitcom joke, a sign of someone who either was a complete loser or had extremely poor judgment. No good could ever come from such a situation.

    I still can’t get my brain around the fact that today it’s completely mainstream, and even the norm for some demographics.

    • #33
  4. Justin Other Lawyer Coolidge
    Justin Other Lawyer
    @DouglasMyers

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    Tinder would be mostly for 20’s and 30’s. I’ve a 16 year old friend who tells me there’s a dating app for teenagers which just sounds wrong.
    I’ve tried some of them but I’ve never enjoyed it, it soon feels like a series of job interviews for a job you don’t really want.

    It wasn’t that long ago that saying you met someone online was a sitcom joke, a sign of someone who either was a complete loser or had extremely poor judgment. No good could ever come from such a situation.

    I still can’t get my brain around the fact that today it’s completely mainstream, and even the norm for some demographics.

    Agreed.  Although my young adult children have met their significant others in real life, I know of a number of very normal, decent 20-somethings who have found their very normal, decent spouses online.  Still seems odd to me though.

    • #34
  5. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    Tinder would be mostly for 20’s and 30’s. I’ve a 16 year old friend who tells me there’s a dating app for teenagers which just sounds wrong.
    I’ve tried some of them but I’ve never enjoyed it, it soon feels like a series of job interviews for a job you don’t really want.

    It wasn’t that long ago that saying you met someone online was a sitcom joke, a sign of someone who either was a complete loser or had extremely poor judgment. No good could ever come from such a situation.

    I still can’t get my brain around the fact that today it’s completely mainstream, and even the norm for some demographics.

    • #35
  6. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Except for the fact that I wouldn’t be here, there is one dance I wished my Mom had never gone to.

    Sounds deep, dark, and full of secrets.  Godspeed to Mom, wherever she is.

    • #36
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I really enjoyed Foyle’s War, partly for the glimpse into English countryside life during the war. The guys were dressed up and had some money in their pocket, they felt good about themselves (all that discipline and clear sense of purpose, learning and mastering new things every day), they were used to socializing because they were in social situations all day with their fellow service men and women, and the communities, feeling sorry for the military having to live “so far from home,” organized “socials” with music and dancing. Dating and the baby boom ensued. :-) I wonder if there was a baby boom after World War I as well. :-)

    Foyle’s War made me realize how important those barn dances and church socials were in my grandparents’ day. My daughter was in the Cooperative for Real Education in Agricultural Management (CREAM) program at the University of Vermont. It was the program that took care of an on-campus dairy herd. She and her friends were in the barn most of time. They learned square dancing as well as how to care for a dairy herd. :-) These were very focused kids who became lifelong friends. I’m sure there was dating in addition to the dancing. :-)

    Weddings do the same thing. Everyone is dressed up and having a great time, the wedding events last a weekend now, and dating among the guests soon follows. :-)

    I wonder what would happen if someone pulled the plug on the electricity that fuels the media every day? Are we getting our “social fix” just by watching social situations in the media?

    Yes to all the above re Foyle’s War.

    Before he got married, my dad loved going to dances. He and his friends would go all over the county to different dancehalls because he had a car which wasn’t the norm in the late 50’s early 60’s. He was very handsome and my brothers and I have since met old ladies who recalled dancing with him back then.

    He never drank or smoked and was a bit scornful of the men who needed either for a social crutch. It really wasn’t the thing to be a messy slobbering drunk at these things.

    Let alone the drunk driving, to and from.

    • #37
  8. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    Ray Gunner (View Comment):

    The way I remember it (back in the Pleistocene), the purpose of dating was to test for marriageability. I seems to me young people not dating is a function of young people not marrying. What’s the point of dating in your 20s if you are not going to get serious about marriage until your 40s?

    Yeah, that’s a trick. A lot of young people have taken the bad advice that whether or not they get married will make no difference in their lives. Most will say they don’t want to. They’re full of it but as a result they aren’t aiming. That’s why there’s the awkward conversations that make it “official,” then years and years of “going out,” and then sometimes they decide to marry up for tax purposes. “It makes sense,” they say.

    It’s odd.

    • #38
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Ray Gunner (View Comment):

    The way I remember it (back in the Pleistocene), the purpose of dating was to test for marriageability. I seems to me young people not dating is a function of young people not marrying. What’s the point of dating in your 20s if you are not going to get serious about marriage until your 40s?

    By which time the women are too old to have children.

    • #39
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Dating at 50, after my first wife passed, was very very different than at 18-23, when I married her. At 50-55 everyone was complex to the point of being nuts, but many women were willing to be quickly unchaste. As one told me, hey, I’m pushing 60, I’ll take it while I can!

    What’s the old line I heard about older women and sex?  “They don’t swell, they don’t tell, and they’re grateful as hell.”

    • #40
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    Kephalithos (View Comment):
    My experience has been that culturally conservative, religious Millennials/Gen Z-ers who want to lead lives of bourgeois virtue and do things the “right” way are risk-averse to the point of paralysis. Because there are no rules. And no institutional support for dating, either. It’s a miracle any marriages happen.

    You can gather 50 Catholics between the ages of 20 and 30 in a room every week for six months, and how many relationships will result? Z-e-r-o.

    Do these gatherings actually happen? And zero relationships is what happens?

    Interesting….

    But, yes, even before I heard that I knew the paralysis is a big issue.

    About the last thing – maybe THE last thing – any guy needs is a “date” that turns into a rape accusation the next day, or week, or month, or year…

    • #41
  12. Marjorie Reynolds Coolidge
    Marjorie Reynolds
    @MarjorieReynolds

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I really enjoyed Foyle’s War, partly for the glimpse into English countryside life during the war. The guys were dressed up and had some money in their pocket, they felt good about themselves (all that discipline and clear sense of purpose, learning and mastering new things every day), they were used to socializing because they were in social situations all day with their fellow service men and women, and the communities, feeling sorry for the military having to live “so far from home,” organized “socials” with music and dancing. Dating and the baby boom ensued. :-) I wonder if there was a baby boom after World War I as well. :-)

    Foyle’s War made me realize how important those barn dances and church socials were in my grandparents’ day. My daughter was in the Cooperative for Real Education in Agricultural Management (CREAM) program at the University of Vermont. It was the program that took care of an on-campus dairy herd. She and her friends were in the barn most of time. They learned square dancing as well as how to care for a dairy herd. :-) These were very focused kids who became lifelong friends. I’m sure there was dating in addition to the dancing. :-)

    Weddings do the same thing. Everyone is dressed up and having a great time, the wedding events last a weekend now, and dating among the guests soon follows. :-)

    I wonder what would happen if someone pulled the plug on the electricity that fuels the media every day? Are we getting our “social fix” just by watching social situations in the media?

    Yes to all the above re Foyle’s War.

    Before he got married, my dad loved going to dances. He and his friends would go all over the county to different dancehalls because he had a car which wasn’t the norm in the late 50’s early 60’s. He was very handsome and my brothers and I have since met old ladies who recalled dancing with him back then.

    He never drank or smoked and was a bit scornful of the men who needed either for a social crutch. It really wasn’t the thing to be a messy slobbering drunk at these things.

    Let alone the drunk driving, to and from.

    I think a lot of people were cycling to them back then. 

    • #42
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    How do dating websites and apps fit into this? I guess those are for people who are slightly older to much older?

     

    Tinder would be mostly for 20’s and 30’s. I’ve a 16 year old friend who tells me there’s a dating app for teenagers which just sounds wrong.
    I’ve tried some of them but I’ve never enjoyed it, it soon feels like a series of job interviews for a job you don’t really want.

    Well put.

    • #43
  14. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    Chuck (View Comment):

    This conversation is flabbergasting! Until now I just assumed that those not dating were exceptions pretty much living on the left coast – well, except for a few reprobates. My eyes have been opened, but I sure do wish they had remained closed.

    I thought my preference for arranged marriages and avoiding the dangers concomitant with dating made me a dinosaur but now I find I’m a dimetrodon at the very best. 😔

    Aw, man! I’m sorry. Would it make you feel any better if I said that I don’t think we’re doomed? 

    • #44
  15. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I really enjoyed Foyle’s War, partly for the glimpse into English countryside life during the war. The guys were dressed up and had some money in their pocket, they felt good about themselves (all that discipline and clear sense of purpose, learning and mastering new things every day), they were used to socializing because they were in social situations all day with their fellow service men and women, and the communities, feeling sorry for the military having to live “so far from home,” organized “socials” with music and dancing. Dating and the baby boom ensued. :-) I wonder if there was a baby boom after World War I as well. :-)

    Foyle’s War made me realize how important those barn dances and church socials were in my grandparents’ day. My daughter was in the Cooperative for Real Education in Agricultural Management (CREAM) program at the University of Vermont. It was the program that took care of an on-campus dairy herd. She and her friends were in the barn most of time. They learned square dancing as well as how to care for a dairy herd. :-) These were very focused kids who became lifelong friends. I’m sure there was dating in addition to the dancing. :-)

    Weddings do the same thing. Everyone is dressed up and having a great time, the wedding events last a weekend now, and dating among the guests soon follows. :-)

    I wonder what would happen if someone pulled the plug on the electricity that fuels the media every day? Are we getting our “social fix” just by watching social situations in the media?

    Yes to all the above re Foyle’s War.

    Before he got married, my dad loved going to dances. He and his friends would go all over the county to different dancehalls because he had a car which wasn’t the norm in the late 50’s early 60’s. He was very handsome and my brothers and I have since met old ladies who recalled dancing with him back then.

    He never drank or smoked and was a bit scornful of the men who needed either for a social crutch. It really wasn’t the thing to be a messy slobbering drunk at these things.

    Let alone the drunk driving, to and from.

    I think a lot of people were cycling to them back then.

    Maybe they were, but I was referring more to your dad with the car.

    • #45
  16. Marjorie Reynolds Coolidge
    Marjorie Reynolds
    @MarjorieReynolds

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    Tinder would be mostly for 20’s and 30’s. I’ve a 16 year old friend who tells me there’s a dating app for teenagers which just sounds wrong.
    I’ve tried some of them but I’ve never enjoyed it, it soon feels like a series of job interviews for a job you don’t really want.

    It wasn’t that long ago that saying you met someone online was a sitcom joke, a sign of someone who either was a complete loser or had extremely poor judgment. No good could ever come from such a situation.

    I still can’t get my brain around the fact that today it’s completely mainstream, and even the norm for some demographics.

    Well it makes sense when you consider how all sorts of things that were once done socially are now done online. Lots of things are shrinking away from the public arena. And it’s not like it doesn’t work, 4 of my friends have met their husbands online. 

    • #46
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    I had no dating life until I got my license . . .

    Pilot’s license?

    Ray Gunner (View Comment):

    The way I remember it (back in the Pleistocene), the purpose of dating was to test for marriageability. I seems to me young people not dating is a function of young people not marrying. What’s the point of dating in your 20s if you are not going to get serious about marriage until your 40s?

    My father was not one for giving verbal advice. He mainly showed by example. But one thing he impressed on me I think was very helpful: never get physically or emotionally serious with a young lady that you can’t imagine yourself marrying. He wasn’t weird about it, and it’s not like I went around asking “who wants to get married?” Rather, he discouraged frivolous dating, understanding that romantic involvement carries with it tremendous mystical attachments that are not easily undone if/when things don’t work out.

    Which seems to be where a lot of the made-up rape accusations come from.

    • #47
  18. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):
    Rather, he discouraged frivolous dating, understanding that romantic involvement carries with it tremendous mystical attachments that are not easily undone if/when things don’t work out.

    This isn’t necessarily bad advice (especially in the current climate) but I’d like to put in a word in favor of some frivolous dating, let’s say between ages 17-21 or so. I had a ball dating a bunch of different dudes early in my college career. I was always straightforward about what they could expect (we weren’t exclusive, I don’t drink, and sex was totally off the table) and yet somehow I never seemed to lack for male attention. It was fun and exciting and an excellent way to find out what I did and didn’t want in a boyfriend. And when it was time to move on to more serious relationships, I felt like I had had a lovely time playing the field.

    • #48
  19. Marjorie Reynolds Coolidge
    Marjorie Reynolds
    @MarjorieReynolds

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I really enjoyed Foyle’s War, partly for the glimpse into English countryside life during the war. The guys were dressed up and had some money in their pocket, they felt good about themselves (all that discipline and clear sense of purpose, learning and mastering new things every day), they were used to socializing because they were in social situations all day with their fellow service men and women, and the communities, feeling sorry for the military having to live “so far from home,” organized “socials” with music and dancing. Dating and the baby boom ensued. :-) I wonder if there was a baby boom after World War I as well. :-)

    Foyle’s War made me realize how important those barn dances and church socials were in my grandparents’ day. My daughter was in the Cooperative for Real Education in Agricultural Management (CREAM) program at the University of Vermont. It was the program that took care of an on-campus dairy herd. She and her friends were in the barn most of time. They learned square dancing as well as how to care for a dairy herd. :-) These were very focused kids who became lifelong friends. I’m sure there was dating in addition to the dancing. :-)

    Weddings do the same thing. Everyone is dressed up and having a great time, the wedding events last a weekend now, and dating among the guests soon follows. :-)

    I wonder what would happen if someone pulled the plug on the electricity that fuels the media every day? Are we getting our “social fix” just by watching social situations in the media?

    Yes to all the above re Foyle’s War.

    Before he got married, my dad loved going to dances. He and his friends would go all over the county to different dancehalls because he had a car which wasn’t the norm in the late 50’s early 60’s. He was very handsome and my brothers and I have since met old ladies who recalled dancing with him back then.

    He never drank or smoked and was a bit scornful of the men who needed either for a social crutch. It really wasn’t the thing to be a messy slobbering drunk at these things.

    Let alone the drunk driving, to and from.

    I think a lot of people were cycling to them back then.

    Maybe they were, but I was referring more to your dad with the car.

    Oh yeah, well he never drank at all, car or no car. My grandad frequently drove from the pub which wasn’t unusual when you lived in the country.

    • #49
  20. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):
    With Catholics, there’s some that just take it too far. I remember a woman I used to meet from time to time at pro life groups and we’d be talking  and she would always bring up chastity and how nothing would ever come right if we didn’t have more of it. Now I’ve never claimed to be a good Catholic so if you ask me chastity is like most things, alright in moderation.

    This one’s tricky… I’m actually converting and my mentioning this probably means I’m not off to a great start – I’ll definitely have something to talk with my sponsor next week. But given what I’m reading, I wonder if the church needs have more parishioners who are confident enough to say, “Here are the rules. We’re not allowed to tell you that you can break the rules. But here are the rules for when you do break the rules…. and afterwards go to confession. Less-good Catholics probably have a role to play.  

    I hope I don’t irritate too many people with that. It just seems like another of those more reasonable expectations I was talking about in the post. Even if there’s a better way, a little bit of premarital hanky-panky seems like it beats a lifetime of onanism.    

    • #50
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):
    With Catholics, there’s some that just take it too far. I remember a woman I used to meet from time to time at pro life groups and we’d be talking and she would always bring up chastity and how nothing would ever come right if we didn’t have more of it. Now I’ve never claimed to be a good Catholic so if you ask me chastity is like most things, alright in moderation.

    This one’s tricky… I’m actually converting and my mentioning this probably means I’m not off to a great start – I’ll definitely have something to talk with my sponsor next week. But given what I’m reading, I wonder if the church needs have more parishioners who are confident enough to say, “Here are the rules. We’re not allowed to tell you that you can break the rules. But here are the rules for when you do break the rules…. and afterwards go to confession. Less-good Catholics probably have a role to play.

    I hope I don’t irritate too many people with that. It just seems like another of those more reasonable expectations I was talking about in the post. Even if there’s a better way, a little bit of premarital hanky-panky seems like it beats a lifetime of onanism.

    Are you ready to hear about how onanism doesn’t equate to masturbation?

    • #51
  22. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):
    With Catholics, there’s some that just take it too far. I remember a woman I used to meet from time to time at pro life groups and we’d be talking and she would always bring up chastity and how nothing would ever come right if we didn’t have more of it. Now I’ve never claimed to be a good Catholic so if you ask me chastity is like most things, alright in moderation.

    This one’s tricky… I’m actually converting and my mentioning this probably means I’m not off to a great start – I’ll definitely have something to talk with my sponsor next week. But given what I’m reading, I wonder if the church needs have more parishioners who are confident enough to say, “Here are the rules. We’re not allowed to tell you that you can break the rules. But here are the rules for when you do break the rules…. and afterwards go to confession. Less-good Catholics probably have a role to play.

    I hope I don’t irritate too many people with that. It just seems like another of those more reasonable expectations I was talking about in the post. Even if there’s a better way, a little bit of premarital hanky-panky seems like it beats a lifetime of onanism.

    Are you ready to hear about how onanism doesn’t equate to masturbation?

    Sure. I like Bible stories.

    • #52
  23. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):
    With Catholics, there’s some that just take it too far. I remember a woman I used to meet from time to time at pro life groups and we’d be talking and she would always bring up chastity and how nothing would ever come right if we didn’t have more of it. Now I’ve never claimed to be a good Catholic so if you ask me chastity is like most things, alright in moderation.

    This one’s tricky… I’m actually converting and my mentioning this probably means I’m not off to a great start – I’ll definitely have something to talk with my sponsor next week. But given what I’m reading, I wonder if the church needs have more parishioners who are confident enough to say, “Here are the rules. We’re not allowed to tell you that you can break the rules. But here are the rules for when you do break the rules…. and afterwards go to confession. Less-good Catholics probably have a role to play.

    I hope I don’t irritate too many people with that. It just seems like another of those more reasonable expectations I was talking about in the post. Even if there’s a better way, a little bit of premarital hanky-panky seems like it beats a lifetime of onanism.

    Are you ready to hear about how onanism doesn’t equate to masturbation?

    Sure. I like Bible stories.

    Well there have been longer threads/posts on it before.  And I figured one of the more theological members might take it up.  But anyway.  Basically what it boils down to is that Onan wasn’t bad because of masturbation, he was bad because he defied God’s command that he (marry and?) impregnate his brother’s widow, if I recall the details correctly.

    In terms of logic, I suppose the summation would be that “Onanism” is (a form of, or a situation involving) masturbation, but not all masturbation is “Onanism.”

    • #53
  24. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    I was a firm believer in “don’t fish off the company pier.”  I think that’s gone the way of the Dodo Bird.

    • #54
  25. Marjorie Reynolds Coolidge
    Marjorie Reynolds
    @MarjorieReynolds

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):
    With Catholics, there’s some that just take it too far. I remember a woman I used to meet from time to time at pro life groups and we’d be talking and she would always bring up chastity and how nothing would ever come right if we didn’t have more of it. Now I’ve never claimed to be a good Catholic so if you ask me chastity is like most things, alright in moderation.

    This one’s tricky… I’m actually converting and my mentioning this probably means I’m not off to a great start – I’ll definitely have something to talk with my sponsor next week. But given what I’m reading, I wonder if the church needs have more parishioners who are confident enough to say, “Here are the rules. We’re not allowed to tell you that you can break the rules. But here are the rules for when you do break the rules…. and afterwards go to confession. Less-good Catholics probably have a role to play.

    I hope I don’t irritate too many people with that. It just seems like another of those more reasonable expectations I was talking about in the post. Even if there’s a better way, a little bit of premarital hanky-panky seems like it beats a lifetime of onanism.

    Seems reasonable to me.

    • #55
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I was a firm believer in “don’t fish off the company pier.” I think that’s gone the way of the Dodo Bird.

    Considering the long history of people meeting their spouses at the workplace, that never seemed smart to me, at least not as some enforceable company policy.

    • #56
  27. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Ray Gunner (View Comment):

    The way I remember it (back in the Pleistocene), the purpose of dating was to test for marriageability. I seems to me young people not dating is a function of young people not marrying. What’s the point of dating in your 20s if you are not going to get serious about marriage until your 40s?

    By which time the women are too old to have children.

    Not so sure about that.

    • #57
  28. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    This conversation is flabbergasting! Until now I just assumed that those not dating were exceptions pretty much living on the left coast – well, except for a few reprobates. My eyes have been opened, but I sure do wish they had remained closed.

    I thought my preference for arranged marriages and avoiding the dangers concomitant with dating made me a dinosaur but now I find I’m a dimetrodon at the very best. 😔

    Aw, man! I’m sorry. Would it make you feel any better if I said that I don’t think we’re doomed?

    Probably not.  But if you could prove it…

    • #58
  29. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    This seems like it belongs on this thread.

     

    • #59
  30. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Chuck (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Ray Gunner (View Comment):

    The way I remember it (back in the Pleistocene), the purpose of dating was to test for marriageability. I seems to me young people not dating is a function of young people not marrying. What’s the point of dating in your 20s if you are not going to get serious about marriage until your 40s?

    By which time the women are too old to have children.

    Not so sure about that.

    There are exceptions, but in scientific terms, pregnancy past age 35 or something is considered “geriatric,” last I heard.

    • #60
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