Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
Vladophilia
From the head of a think-tank, recent thoughts on Ukraine’s disinclination to be absorbed:
This is not an uncommon view, also expressed the other day by Noam Chomsky: it was unwise for Ukraine to resist invasion. If Russia wants your territory, you assume a supine position while gesturing broadly towards everything that was once yours, and is now theirs to control. If Russia is required to kill your people and level your neighborhoods to get what it believes is theirs, that’s on you.
Freedom is nice and all that I guess, but economic growth is the true metric of a society’s health. Really, those idiots in the tractors, do they care who the boss is? The tech sector of Ukraine – does it matter if they’re making West-facing consumer products, or working for the FSB? What counts is the end-of-the-year balance sheet.
Previously from the same account:
The means by which you add those 44 million are irrelevant. What counts is the world historical accomplishment.
The population of France in 1940 was 41 million, and I suppose absorbing it into the Reich was a world historical accomplishment, but history doesn’t seem to regard it with any particular affection. On the other hand, France did surrender, and while that made things difficult for the eventual defeat of the militaristic statists in Berlin, France was spared additional physical trauma. Except for the Jews, of course, but (bored continental hand-waving gesture)
Another earlier sentiment:
Men of a certain age of Ricochet: did you find a spring in your step after the invasion? Perhaps a sudden urge to make changes, act boldly? Did you feel a strange charge in the older-dude zeitgeist, as though men around the world about to walk over the border of 70 suddenly felt empowered and revivified?
Perhaps, because that Putin guy is a strong leader, and cares for his nation, unlike our guys. Granted, he’s presided over the wholesale transfer of wealth from his people to a select group of elites, and the craptacular state of his military suggests that he was either ignorant of the true state of his capabilities or uninterested in the human cost of shoving his shambolic forces into the meat grinder, and hey maybe the Defender of Christendom shouldn’t have lost a purported piece of the True Cross because his flagship wasn’t refitted because they were broke but the oligarch’s yachts had 5G and Roombas in the master suite. But at least he’s not woke. And it’s ridiculous to think he’s not strong. Just you wait. He’s going to kill a lot of people.
That’s what leaders do.
Published in General
Not sure I’d necessarily believe the French media either, considering how much France – especially Paris etc – depends on tourism.
Another issue with Claire is if you asked her what color the sky is above Paris, she wouldn’t be able to say “blue” if that’s what Trump said.
Well why would you believe Daniel Pipes, in that case, but not Claire or the French media?
The original issue was that I wouldn’t necessarily trust Claire or the French media above someone else, just because Claire and the French media happen to be in France. I’m pretty sure you don’t trust Trump much, even though he’s in the US and you’re not.
And the someone else is making claims about Paris although they aren’t there (while Claire and the French media are).
He’s a better source for ‘is it raining in Mar a Lago right now?’ than anybody not in Mar a Lago.
“Is it raining in Mar A Lago” is not a political question the way “are there no-go zones in France” is.
Sure, but how is that relevant? People who are there will have a better understanding of local conditions than people who are not. So obviously people who are there are a more accurate source.
Unless they’re lying.
Why do you think they’re lying? Not asking you to list what their potential motivations to lie might be, but asking why you think what they say about Paris is not true?
As opposed to Pipes?
Because other people who ARE in/from France etc, as well as other parts of Europe, who have been to those places and also written about them, agree with Pipes.
Claire might be like the infamous Pauline Kael, who expressed surprise that Nixon won because nobody she knew, voted for him.
It’s entirely possible that Claire has never tried to visit any of the areas mentioned. And so in her own little bubble, she’s certain they don’t exist.
I had not seen that until you said. Ok. No I do not support that and thankfully it’s not being listened to by either side.
Alright. I’m not an isolationist. That’s the equivalent of penny wise and dollar foolish.
Expand NATO and contain Russia. They have repeatedly proven to be a danger to world stability.
I think Russia has proven to be much weaker militarily than thought. Putin has exposed himsef. He will be in no position to dictate anything, n matter how this finally turns out.
For conventional military, it seems so. But nukes don’t need a lot of troops and vehicles and supply lines backing them up.
Also, Russia has been imploding, perhaps especially demographically, for quite a while already. And that’s the kind of thing that could lead someone to do something stupid.
I’m willing to give it a shot. Right now Zelenskyy is begging for seven billion a month from the West to fix his economy.
Guess where that money’s going to come from? You and me. Because our leadership cares more about Ukraine than they do about our own country. That money will be taken from taxpayers in the U.S. and given to a corruption-soaked country where it will most likely be laundered back to the globalist oligarchs. (10% for the big guy!)
And you know our leaders will be happy to cough it up. They’ll spent billions over there to secure Ukraine’s border while keeping ours leaking like a sieve. And if you object, you have “vladophilia.”
Well argued. Well said.
With all due respect Drew, this is the quaking in your boots attitude. We’re not talking about some Middle East country here or Africa or Asia. This is Europe and you better believe there are huge consequences for world prosperity and stability if Russia and China see this as a victory. There is a heck of a lot at stake here. This is no time to give Putin a psychological advantage.
Exactly. Why doesn’t he want other countries to form defensive treaties? Because he or future Russian interests are to take over Eastern Europe. He believes in a Russian expansionist empire. This needs to be nipped in the bud now.
Indeed.
https://ricochet.com/233302/archives/american-walks-clichy-sous-bois/
It is not a binary thing where we are involved in 100% of actual/potential conflicts or 0%.
He still has nukes.
Exactly, and I have not advocated military engagement with Russia.
But again, part of the problem is that we’re not the only ones who get to decide that.
Well, that may not be so clear. Part-way through my first Afghanistan tour, I saw that we were propping up a BS Islamo-fascist regime as a profitable and politically useful adventure, with only the American people still believing the propaganda. Every Afghan saw right through it, and of course the US Gov’t was the prime agent. I remain good with about the first 18 months. Things trended downhill from there, and had become a complete farce by the time Obama announced a time-based withdrawal, i.e., win/lose, who cares? The last American should have been gone no more than a week after such an announcement. But that thing was a poop-show long before Obama’s unseemly rise.
Anyway, I take it from your comment that you think I have been duped. I don’t think so. Ukraine is an edge case in several regards. As such it has featured in several liminal scandals, as cut-out, as pass-through, as border town on the global frontier, and there’ a whole lotta corruption goin’ on.
First, I don’t credit Russia’s claims that NATO on its borders is provocative. I posted a while back on the moral difference between NATO and the Soviet yoke. Putin is just a loser who cannot adjust to the fact that demise of the Soviet Union was rightful and righteous.
Second, Ukraine didn’t invade Russia and engage in a series of lurid atrocities. But Russia did so to Ukraine.
What gets rewarded gets repeated. That premise alone should be enough to draw a line, oppose Russia, support Ukraine, and close one’s ears to the arguments of Russia and her apologists. Until the last Russian is out of Ukraine, I have no ears to hear the Soviets. They are speaking with their boots anyway.
We just listened to Lara Logan speak extemporaneously for an hour and a half about Afghanistan and politics yesterday afternoon. It was fascinating, but dark, and not at all encouraging about our so-called leadership, both governmental and military.
Still not worth the death of one American soldier. Much as I detest Putin and this cruel war.
But that’s the same with all issues. We don’t get to decide anything. We just vote for representatives. That’s what a republic is.
Fine, take it out another step: our representatives don’t get to make the sole decisions/judgements either, nor does Biden. Putin and others get “votes” too, and in many cases theirs are the only “votes” that matter.
That wasn’t my comment.
I understand. I agree with you that Putin is the bad guy and Ukraine is in the right. But two things can be True at once. I can totally agree with you about Putin but disagree with people who want to start another darn war.
No, I mean, I didn’t say:
I think that was Manny, but I’m not going to look up-thread to find out.
I’m the one cautioning about provoking Putin and I don’t believe we have all that many options for helping Ukraine without doing that. We may have lucked out so far what with Biden’s penchant for screwing things up.